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A Redden Buyout: How Viable is the Idea

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Old
05-26-2009, 11:55 AM
  #51
Bleed Ranger Blue
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Originally Posted by offdacrossbar View Post
actually, for the end of the regular season and inc. the wash series, he was. sorry, true. his play picked up dramatically. not sure if that means he was good or if the rest of the d was that bad, either way, wade did play as well as any other dman we had for that stretch- inc marc staal and dan girardi.

reddens play for much of the regular season was at times, awful. rozys play for the whole year was, for the most part, atrocious. theres the difference. one guy stepped it up when it mattered, the other was mediocre at best and often just plain bad.

my memories of rozy are screaming at the tv saying... get him off the power play point now !! and, watching as he lumbered out of the d zone with the puck only to get stripped or fumble it or just throw it away. he became the human turnover.

ill take redden over rozy thank you very much. atleast redden will take the occasional shot, make a good pass here and there and isnt prone to "stevie wonder" passing.

no contest. rozy must go.
Im not going to forget this post when Bobby Sanguinetti is running around the defensive zone like a chicken with his head cut off.

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05-26-2009, 12:12 PM
  #52
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Originally Posted by offdacrossbar View Post
actually, for the end of the regular season and inc. the wash series, he was. sorry, true. his play picked up dramatically. not sure if that means he was good or if the rest of the d was that bad, either way, wade did play as well as any other dman we had for that stretch- inc marc staal and dan girardi.

reddens play for much of the regular season was at times, awful. rozys play for the whole year was, for the most part, atrocious. theres the difference. one guy stepped it up when it mattered, the other was mediocre at best and often just plain bad.

my memories of rozy are screaming at the tv saying... get him off the power play point now !! and, watching as he lumbered out of the d zone with the puck only to get stripped or fumble it or just throw it away. he became the human turnover.

ill take redden over rozy thank you very much. atleast redden will take the occasional shot, make a good pass here and there and isnt prone to "stevie wonder" passing.

no contest. rozy must go.
True? Maybe in your mind.

Boy that Wade Redden shot sure did wonders for our PP. You want to talk about lumbering? Rozsival is far from a speedster, but he moves at a much quicker pace than Redden.

Redden's play may have improved after the coaching change, but to call him the team's best defenseman, or to say that his play changed "dramatically," is amusing. Staal, Morris and Rozsival all played much better than he did, and so did Girardi. He continued to be useless offensively, while doing nothing defensively that most NHL defensemen couldn't have done just as well. Rozsival, meanwhile, actually played some of the best defense of his career, despite being way overmatch in that Caps series.

The only thing Redden had over any of the other players was the time he spent on the ice, which I assume had to do with some sort of lack of conditioning on the part of some of the other defensemen. But then again, when you play as passive and as uninspiring a game as Redden plays, it seems like it would be a lot easier to play 20 minutes than it would if you play the kind of game a Morris or a Mara played.

I can't tell you how annoying it is that we're probably going to have to let a useful, all-purpose player like Morris go so we can continue to wildly overpay this waste of space. To return to the topic at hand, buying Redden out is not going to happen, until, at the earliest, he has two years left on his deal, and even then, it's still iffy. We're just going to have to deal with it, and by deal with it, I mean put up with a significantly worse team because of it.

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Old
05-26-2009, 12:19 PM
  #53
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Reddens contract blows bad but he is not horrific

Once again just run Redden Staal, Girardi, move Rozy and they likely have to take a 4th Dman back with some salary

then 3 spots for the kids

I would think Sauer, Sanguinetti, Potter

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05-26-2009, 12:31 PM
  #54
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You'd need the union to go along with that since it's not provided for in the CBA.

However, if the cap did go down substantially, that might convince an owner to eat salary in a buyout because his team would be too constrained by the cap otherwise.
I think it might be in the union's best interest to cooperate in this fashion. They'll get a heck of a lot of money in buyouts and if they can help protect their status as NHLers instead of being buried in the AHL. The PA can be stubborn, but that will just translate into many servicable and decent players riding the bus to Peoria and Hershey.

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05-26-2009, 12:54 PM
  #55
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
Im not going to forget this post when Bobby Sanguinetti is running around the defensive zone like a chicken with his head cut off.
im pretty sure that wont happen, atleast not this fall. gilroy, sauer and potter all are more ready that bobby sangs is. and in fact, mdz might play before bobby does.

either way, bobby sangunetti does not have to worry about running around like that in the nhl until he stops doing that in the ahl.....

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05-26-2009, 01:12 PM
  #56
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Originally Posted by DutchShamrock View Post
I think it might be in the union's best interest to cooperate in this fashion. They'll get a heck of a lot of money in buyouts and if they can help protect their status as NHLers instead of being buried in the AHL. The PA can be stubborn, but that will just translate into many servicable and decent players riding the bus to Peoria and Hershey.
I agree that such a deal would be in players' best interests. But at the same time, I can see some teams complaining about it, particularly teams that spend to the cap but have done a good job of managing the cap and don't need the benefit of no-penalty buyouts.

I think it would make sense for the NHL and NHLPA to include a clause in the CBA by which buyouts do not count against the cap if the cap goes down, but only up to the amount the cap dropped.

The cap was 56.7 mil last year. So let's say it drops to 55 million. Up to 1.7 million of the buyout cap hit would be off the books. That would mean, if we were to buyout Redden, we would have cap hits of (original cap hits in parens):

Year 1: 0 (566,667)
Year 2: 366,667 (2,066,667)
Year 3: 366,667 (2,066,667)
Year 4: 1,866,667 (3,566,667)
Year 5: 1,866,667 (3,566,667)
Year 6: 366,667 (2,066,667)
Year 7: 366,667 (2,066,667)
Year 8: 366,667 (2,066,667)
Year 9: 366,667 (2,066,667)
Year 10: 366,667 (2,066,667)

The 1.7 million would not factor into cap credits. Cap credits would only be based on the original buyout amount.

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05-26-2009, 01:34 PM
  #57
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The salary cap is going to be abolished completely when the KHL and SEL merge to form a super Euro league and the superstars start bolting for home.

I'm tempted to put a at the end of that sentence, but I honestly think there's a good chance that this will actually happen.

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05-26-2009, 03:59 PM
  #58
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Originally Posted by Synergy27 View Post
The salary cap is going to be abolished completely when the KHL and SEL merge to form a super Euro league and the superstars start bolting for home.

I'm tempted to put a at the end of that sentence, but I honestly think there's a good chance that this will actually happen.
That would be incredibly ******.

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05-26-2009, 04:09 PM
  #59
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can't we just bury him in Hartford and save all the money?

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05-26-2009, 04:14 PM
  #60
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can't we just bury him in Hartford and save all the money?
I believe there is a salary cap in the AHL (something like 10 million)

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05-26-2009, 04:16 PM
  #61
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can't we just bury him in Hartford and save all the money?
We can, but that would come with consequences. The first would likely be a grievance from the NHLPA. The second may be other UFAs not signing with us unless we give them an NMC so we can't do the same thing to them.

It's not worth the trouble IMO. Keep him and buy him out once it becomes cost effective, or find a way to trade him.

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05-26-2009, 04:18 PM
  #62
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This team probably won't be a contender until a real scoring threat emerges from somewhere. Until then, you may as well keep Redden. If he turns back into a top pairing guy, great. Otherwise you hold on until the team feels that it can truly compete for the Cup and then drop him when he doesn't have as many years left. 10 years of paying that salary is brutal.

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05-26-2009, 04:19 PM
  #63
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I believe there is a salary cap in the AHL (something like 10 million)
There isn't. An AHL team can have any number of player at any salary. The only restrictions are the number players that can suit up for a game and a certain percentage of the players must be developmental type players.

The ECHL has a very low salary cap, measured in dollars per week. So no player on a 1 way contract could ever be buried there, but the AHL is always a possibility.

Kaspar was sent to the AHL without issue.

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05-26-2009, 04:22 PM
  #64
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Originally Posted by offdacrossbar View Post
actually, for the end of the regular season and inc. the wash series, he was. sorry, true. his play picked up dramatically. not sure if that means he was good or if the rest of the d was that bad, either way, wade did play as well as any other dman we had for that stretch- inc marc staal and dan girardi.

reddens play for much of the regular season was at times, awful. rozys play for the whole year was, for the most part, atrocious. theres the difference. one guy stepped it up when it mattered, the other was mediocre at best and often just plain bad.

my memories of rozy are screaming at the tv saying... get him off the power play point now !! and, watching as he lumbered out of the d zone with the puck only to get stripped or fumble it or just throw it away. he became the human turnover.

ill take redden over rozy thank you very much. atleast redden will take the occasional shot, make a good pass here and there and isnt prone to "stevie wonder" passing.

no contest. rozy must go.
Oh, boy... What exactly makes you think that you know the difference between good and bad defensive play or between stepping up or mailing it in? Give me just one example you were right on anything. FYI, you're wrong again and every single one you you arguing with is correct.

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05-26-2009, 04:35 PM
  #65
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
Sean Avery has got to be the only top 6 forward in history thats never surpassed 18 goals or 48 points in a season.
Yeah, I like Avery, but he's not really a top 6 forward. More of a tweener, as he is arguably one of the best 3rd liners in the league.

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05-27-2009, 08:53 AM
  #66
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I'm willing to give Redden a chance in 09-10; if for no other reason, I really don't see many other options. Let's see if Torts' system or style benefits him better - who knows - individually, he really wasn't good for most of the season. The adjustment period is over and there are no excuses. Perhaps a buyout is an option, but you'd have dead cap space for many years to come and I don't know what's better - him being paid for the next 5 seasons or having dead cap space for 10 years. Thinking long term, you take the pain over a shorter period of time.

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05-27-2009, 10:17 AM
  #67
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Oh, boy... What exactly makes you think that you know the difference between good and bad defensive play or between stepping up or mailing it in? Give me just one example you were right on anything. FYI, you're wrong again and every single one you you arguing with is correct.
um.. ..not sure i understand what you are trying to say here. but ill take a stab at it.

question : do i know the difference between good and bad defensive play ?

answer: yes. rozy = bad and redden = better than rozy for the final 2 months of the season and into the playoffs. simple enough for you.

question : give you just one example...something, something....

answer : um. i did give you many examples of rozsivals poor play. read what i wrote. he was mostly bad all year. i stand by that statement.

did you even watch him on the pp point for most of the year ? awful.

ill say it again, ill take redden over rozy for 2 reasons.

first, reddens not going anywhere so that pretty much means we all need to deal with him playing here but beyond that, his play was acceptable whereas rozys was for the most part, not.

second, rozys contract is moveable so hes the one who needs to go away.

we do not need, nor can we afford, both of these guys.



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05-27-2009, 01:07 PM
  #68
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Originally Posted by offdacrossbar View Post
um.. ..not sure i understand what you are trying to say here. but ill take a stab at it.

question : do i know the difference between good and bad defensive play ?

answer: yes. rozy = bad and redden = better than rozy for the final 2 months of the season and into the playoffs. simple enough for you.

question : give you just one example...something, something....

answer : um. i did give you many examples of rozsivals poor play. read what i wrote. he was mostly bad all year. i stand by that statement.

did you even watch him on the pp point for most of the year ? awful.

ill say it again, ill take redden over rozy for 2 reasons.

first, reddens not going anywhere so that pretty much means we all need to deal with him playing here but beyond that, his play was acceptable whereas rozys was for the most part, not.

second, rozys contract is moveable so hes the one who needs to go away.

we do not need, nor can we afford, both of these guys.


Neither Rozy, nor Redden are bad defensive players. As much as I hate their contracts, and their production, they are both capable of getting the job done.

The issue people have, is how much they are being paid to get the job done. You would think that their salary's are some type of indication of how exceptional they are at their position.

Redden was supposed to be our PP QB. His first pass out of the zone was supposed to help our transition game. All he's proved to be so far is a average NHL'er who isn't physical, doesn't produce offensively, and isn't as reliable as you would expect from someone who has as much experience as he does.

There are too many players on this team that ultimately underachieved, but that doesn't mean they are 'bad players'.

If you think Rozsival is a bad defenseman, I can whip out some Dale Purinton highlights for your viewing pleasure.

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05-27-2009, 01:53 PM
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Originally Posted by offdacrossbar View Post
um.. ..not sure i understand what you are trying to say here. but ill take a stab at it.

question : do i know the difference between good and bad defensive play ?

answer: yes. rozy = bad and redden = better than rozy for the final 2 months of the season and into the playoffs. simple enough for you.

question : give you just one example...something, something....

answer : um. i did give you many examples of rozsivals poor play. read what i wrote. he was mostly bad all year. i stand by that statement.

did you even watch him on the pp point for most of the year ? awful.

ill say it again, ill take redden over rozy for 2 reasons.

first, reddens not going anywhere so that pretty much means we all need to deal with him playing here but beyond that, his play was acceptable whereas rozys was for the most part, not.

second, rozys contract is moveable so hes the one who needs to go away.

we do not need, nor can we afford, both of these guys.


you're right.Redden simply must go

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05-27-2009, 01:59 PM
  #70
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Sather won't buy out one of the horrible contracts because he would then be admitting he made a mistake.
BINGO!!!!!!!!!!

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05-27-2009, 02:02 PM
  #71
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BINGO!!!!!!!!!!
Wrong.

He has already fixed mistakes he's made in the past with Holik, and Kaspar, so nobody here should assume he won't do the same with Redden.

I think too many people here are forgetting what an ******* Sather is when it comes down to it. Follow his career a bit, and you'll maybe get an idea of what I'm saying.

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05-27-2009, 04:18 PM
  #72
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Redeem from what exactly? he played great as soon as torts took over, if he can get that PP QB thing working than he's going to become the next "staal" on here.


His shot total went up significantly under Torts (almost a .50 increase of shots per game) and he did seem more involved, but I think his ability to run a PP has diminished significantly.

I think that since we all know how average he is, the expectations will plummet for next season, which should be easier on him.

Redden is immovable and buying him out is unrealistic. Roszival is a viable option to move, and we are talking about 1.5 million dollars difference in annual salary between the two.

I say give Redden another year.

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05-28-2009, 12:06 PM
  #73
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he'll be buried in the minors before he's bought out, and the way things look that won't be happening this year.

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05-28-2009, 12:39 PM
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A buyout would be the worst possible course to take. Here is the thing with Redden and his contract. He is due to make 8 mill in actual dollars next season. He isn't going to be bought out and he isn't going to be buried in the minors (at least not this year). The only way I see Sather correcting his mistake this season is if Redden is traded in a package that includes 1-2 of our good young players. Like in the Toronto rumor.

In my opinion making a trade where you are giving up good young players with high potential just to rid yourself of a contract is just as bad going the buyout route. I think the best option for us now is to hold onto Redden this season and analyze our options next year. It isn't like Redden's value can get any worse than it is now, he currently has negative value as a trade piece. He just had the worst season of his career from a production standpoint. Can it really get worse? Plus after this next season where Redden is making 8 mill he will be making an average of 5.75 mill a year in actual dollars for the final 4 years of his deal. I know that doesn't mean anything for his cap hit which stays at 6.5 but for a team struggling financial and looking to get to the cap floor Redden may have some minimal appeal to them. Especially the last two years of the deal where he is making 5 mill in actual dollars but has a cap hit of 6.5.

In summary, the only way we move redden this year is if we package him with a 1st round pick or good young players. I think that would be a terrible mistake. Buying him out would be even a bigger mistake.

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