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So you want to propose a trade w/LA Kings?

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Old
05-26-2009, 06:38 PM
  #126
Shellz
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Originally Posted by Zal View Post
After reading Lombardi's letter over on our Kings boards(It's posted on www.lakings.com), and seeing some of the posts over there, I think a different deal may be in play. It's been discussed in the past, but I think it's realistic.

To Pittsburgh
JJ
2nd


To LA
Mr. Staal

An additional prospect may need to go to the Pens, but I think this is fair. JJ would be affordable defense for the Pens for years to come. Staal's contract would work well in LA's structure, not to mention giving LA more depth down the middle. Pitt would receive an early selection in the 2nd round, giving them more depth in their prospect pool.

EDIT: Oh, and JJ would get to play with his long-time buddy.
lol, wait... what?

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Old
05-26-2009, 06:41 PM
  #127
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Originally Posted by Shelle121 View Post
lol, wait... what?
Having issues? I thought it was fairly straight-forward.

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Old
05-26-2009, 06:42 PM
  #128
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Originally Posted by Zal View Post
Having issues? I thought it was fairly straight-forward.
Give me a minute, I'm getting dizzy.

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Old
05-26-2009, 06:45 PM
  #129
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I'm pretty sure Johnson's value is low at the moment.

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Old
05-26-2009, 06:49 PM
  #130
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Originally Posted by Kingjordan View Post
So has Staal proven that much more than Johnson???
Um... yeah.

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Old
05-26-2009, 06:52 PM
  #131
OldGreatWestern
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Philly Gets:

5th Overall
Jack Johnson
Jonathan Bernier
Jarret Stoll
Justin Williams

LA Gets:
Carter
Hartnell

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Old
05-26-2009, 06:54 PM
  #132
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OldGreatWestern View Post
Philly Gets:

5th Overall
Jack Johnson
Jonathan Bernier
Jarret Stoll
Justin Williams

LA Gets:
Carter
Hartnell
Remove Justin Williams from the offer and its something LA might do.

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Old
05-26-2009, 07:08 PM
  #133
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OldGreatWestern View Post
Philly Gets:

5th Overall
Jack Johnson
Jonathan Bernier
Jarret Stoll
Justin Williams

LA Gets:
Carter
Hartnell
LA giving up way too much

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Old
05-26-2009, 07:36 PM
  #134
Zal
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OldGreatWestern View Post
Philly Gets:

5th Overall
Jack Johnson
Jonathan Bernier
Jarret Stoll
Justin Williams

LA Gets:
Carter
Hartnell
Are you kidding me? Philly would never do that.

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Old
05-26-2009, 07:59 PM
  #135
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OldGreatWestern View Post
Philly Gets:

5th Overall
Jack Johnson
Jonathan Bernier
Jarret Stoll
Justin Williams

LA Gets:
Carter
Hartnell
I'm having a really hard time with this one. In the end though, I don't think it makes sense for either team so both say nay.

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Old
05-26-2009, 08:18 PM
  #136
OldGreatWestern
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Originally Posted by DapperDan View Post
I'm having a really hard time with this one. In the end though, I don't think it makes sense for either team so both say nay.
How great would this 2nd line be though

Frolov - Kopitar - UFA
Hartnell - Carter - Brown
Moller - Handzus - Simmonds

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Old
05-27-2009, 12:19 AM
  #137
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I'd much rather have Jeff Carter than Vincent Lecavalier, that's real talk man.. I'd do the deal if Quick or Ersberg is there instead of Jonathan Bernier, and keep Justin Williams in the trade..

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Old
05-27-2009, 12:59 AM
  #138
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OldGreatWestern View Post
How great would this 2nd line be though

Frolov - Kopitar - UFA
Hartnell - Carter - Brown
Moller - Handzus - Simmonds
Sorry but a bit of homerism is showing...

Carter would be the #1 center for sure.

- R

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Old
05-27-2009, 01:01 AM
  #139
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Quote:
Originally Posted by whySoSerious View Post
My proposal:

TB gets:
5th pick
Jack Johnson
Oscar Moller

LA gets:
Vinny Lecavalier

LA gets the superstar bigtime goal scorer that could take them to the next step (being competitive)

TB gets enough rebuilding parts to make up for Vinny's loss. Then they could either draft Hedman, Schenn or Taveres, Cowen with their two top 10 picks.
Value is ok but you would have to take back Stoll, Kopitar or Handzus somehow to fix the cap problem and also fix LA's 4+ NHL centers issue generated by your above proposal. And obviously if it's Kopitar, we would remove the #5 overall to begin with.

- R

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Old
05-27-2009, 09:55 AM
  #140
Zal
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Originally Posted by Rorschach View Post
Value is ok but you would have to take back Stoll, Kopitar or Handzus somehow to fix the cap problem and also fix LA's 4+ NHL centers issue generated by your above proposal. And obviously if it's Kopitar, we would remove the #5 overall to begin with.

- R
TB will not want to take on a bunch of salary. That's why the theory of this trade exists to begin with. What center problem? We need to add one, not take one away.

Vinny
Kopitar
Stoll
Handzus

JJ and the 5th are the cornerstone pieces of the deal. I highly doubt either of them will be left off of the table.

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Old
05-27-2009, 10:09 AM
  #141
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rorschach View Post
Lately there have been a lot of proposals involving LA. And almost all of them proposed by fans of other teams seem to be totally out of sync with what LA would move or would take. So I decided to make a cheat sheet for the other proposers and save everyones' time.

LA is attempting to come out of a rebuild. We are deep in picks, prospects and cap space. We want quality NHL players back that are in their 20s. We also like our talented players to be tough like Kovalchuk who is not a pushover. They don't have to throw down but they should be able to give a body check and take a check too. No hoverers.

Keep in mind that the Kings are young and loaded with talent everywhere but left wing. Even if we stay pat, we stand to improve greatly so we can afford to do no deals in terms of a trade rather than make a bad deal that makes no sense.


Here's what LA needs: (All players in their 20s)

1) First line - Left Wing

2) A dynamic first line scorer (creates plays from little and makes plays, scoring at a point a game or more) that is not a Right Wing (players that can play either wing are acceptable if they are a top 20 wing in this league, from Gagne to Zetterberg to Hossa to Gaborik, like that caliber, not necessarily exactly those players)...and by first line, I don't mean a guy that is on your first line. I mean a guy who would could be on any team's first line.

3) A veteran star two-way defenseman to possibly mentor our young defense corps and the uber amount of D prospects we already have...this player can be in his 30s depending on his caliber

4) Any real upgrade player at any position, especially for prospects/picks back, if that player is in the correct age range.

5) Unloading Tom Preissing's contract

6) This one is my personal opinion but I feel we need a quality 3rd line winger to cause mismatches in the playoffs and play on the Handzus/Simmonds line, again preferrably a LW but a RW will do in a pinch...would like a tough, smart veteran who can score a bit

7) And of course, this being HF boards, we will take your young stud players too like Schenn and Lucic but I doubt anyone's offering



Here's what LA doesn't need:

1) Your puck-moving defenseman or anyone named Tomas Kaberle

2) Your prospects, and even some of the Kings fans are goofing on this, asking for Van Riemsdyk

3) Your first rounder from this year that is a worse pick than our #5 overall...there is an excellent LW player that projects to be available at that pick named Magnus Paajarvi-Svenssen so if what you're offering isn't an upgrade of him at LW or even Center, forget it.

4) We are not one player away from The Cup so we do not need your veteran rentals.



Here's what LA has to offer:

1) Any pick from this year or next

2) Quality prospects at Defense

3) Quality prospects at Center

4) Quality prospects at Goaltending

5) Quality prospects at Right Wing

6) More cap space than God...ok, not really, but more cap space than 90% of the teams out there

7) Possibly Jack Johnson but not as a dump



Here's what LA won't trade: (Obviously everyone is available for a top 5-ish young player in the league such as Crosby, Ovechkin, Malkin, Toews, etc. But I doubt those guys are being rushed to the trading block by their fans. )

1) Anything in their needs, duh...this includes our best LW Alexander Frolov, unless the deal returns an even better NHLer LW or two good NHL LWs that aren't as good as Frolov that fill two roster slots well

2) Dustin Brown - he is our captain and his attitude is the one our team is being built around

3) Drew Doughty - I'm not going to bother explaining this as just about everyone understands this

4) Any quality roster player where we aren't getting a better player at the same position in return that is in the age range mentioned above, or is a significant player that is a bigger need like LW. Quality players not mentioned already include: Handzus, Williams, Kopitar, Quincey, Greene, Simmonds, Stoll, Quick and Ersberg. These players have some value to the current building process and will not be dumped unless for an upgrade.


Thank you and perhaps other Kings fans can chip in and help refine this list as I don't speak for everyone.

Unlike the fans of many other teams on this board, there are no real untouchables, except maybe Brown and Doughty, on this team because this team was only good enough to miss the playoffs and get the #5th overall pick. We have no untouchable prospects despite the quality. So feel free to propose deals but if they don't fill the Kings needs while having the Kings give something that makes sense, well, flame on.

- R

Question -- would the first line LW need to be a scoring LW or someone who has a solid trackrecord as a first liner in the capacity as the defensive safety valve, a solid PKer and with experience in the playoffs?

What I purpose would be a Hecht-Tallinder combo from Buffalo for Tom Preissing and the Kings second round pick (#35) overall as the principles in the deal. Tallinder has shown ability as an excellent PKer and while not a physical player, he is an effective player. He's also in a contract year, so if he does not rebound as expected, the Kings are out from under his deal. Hecht is not a vocal, rah-rah leader type but has been a steady high-teens goal scorer who puts up 40-50 points while being the safety valve guy for offensive players. He can play either wing or center but is best on LW. He had a terrible season, but came on at the end.

Moving Preissing for a shorter term contract on a more defensively able player gives the Kings some flexibility. He also sadly fits the prototype for post-lockout Regier defenseman as offensive catalysts who can struggle in their own zone. However, he's a rightie, and the Sabres will be looking for both a righthanded D and someone to take over some of Spacek's duties on the PP. The pick gets them back into the second round.

Both teams have dealt in the past -- Lombardi and Regier have working history so this isn't something that is all that out of left field and adds some things to either team.

Thoughts?

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Old
05-27-2009, 10:23 AM
  #142
Coach John McGuirk
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To LA:
Jordan Staal
1st round in '09

To PIT:
Jack Johnson
5th overall pick

Makes sense to both sides. Staal gets a chance to showcase his talent with players surrounding him that aren't grinders, and he gets to play a more offensive role as opposed to what is being asked of him in Pittsburgh. LA gets a great, young center to play one their first or second line, signed at a reasonable contract for the next four years, as well as a late first rounder in a deep draft.

Pittsburgh gets a bit of salary cap relief, as well as a solid young defenseman (Gill, Boucher and Scuderi presumably on their way out of Pittsburgh) and a chance to draft a player (MSP) that would fit in perfectly with the Pens in a few years on either Crosby or Malkin's wing.

Alright, flame away.

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Old
05-27-2009, 10:25 AM
  #143
Zal
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Originally Posted by The Mighty Boosh View Post
To LA:
Jordan Staal
1st round in '09

To PIT:
Jack Johnson
5th overall pick

Makes sense to both sides. Staal gets a chance to showcase his talent with players surrounding him that aren't grinders, and he gets to play a more offensive role as opposed to what is being asked of him in Pittsburgh. LA gets a great, young center to play one their first or second line, signed at a reasonable contract for the next four years, as well as a late first rounder in a deep draft.

Pittsburgh gets a bit of salary cap relief, as well as a solid young defenseman and a chance to draft a player (MSP) that would fit in perfectly with the Pens in a few years on either Crosby or Malkin's wing.

Alright, flame away.
If we're trading JJ for Staal, I'd prefer to leave the 1st rounders out of the deal.

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Old
05-27-2009, 10:36 AM
  #144
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zal View Post
If we're trading JJ for Staal, I'd prefer to leave the 1st rounders out of the deal.
I would see JJ's value being pretty low, especially with being a RFA, while Staal's is probably a bit higher, considering he's done pretty well in any situation asked of him (aside from play wing, ) and he's only 20 years old with 245 regular season games played and 42 playoff games played already. Also, no real injury history to speak of. I think it's the firsts that actually balance out the deal. -shrug-

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Old
05-27-2009, 10:38 AM
  #145
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zal View Post
If we're trading JJ for Staal, I'd prefer to leave the 1st rounders out of the deal.
Yeah, those firsts should be left out. Since you're trading JJ to Pitts for a center, might as well try to get Crosby too.

You leave out the firsts and the deal doesn't get done. Hell the Pens probably wouldn't do the deal with the first in there.

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Old
05-27-2009, 10:39 AM
  #146
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Yup, you showed him. Clearly, prospects are worth superstars.
That obviously went right over your head. He is saying that prospects are not worth proven superstars in a trade. I was clearly showing him that he was wrong. Was Jagr a proven superstar? Yes he was. Was he dealt for 3 prospects? Yes he was. Point proven. Really it's not that hard to figure out.

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05-27-2009, 10:46 AM
  #147
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That obviously went right over your head. He is saying that prospects are not worth proven superstars in a trade. I was clearing showing him that he was wrong. Was Jagr a proven superstar? Yes he was. Was he dealt for 3 prospects? Yes he was. Point proven. Really it's not that hard to figure out.
I don't mean to butt in, but if you're going to bring up the Jagr trade, you should take into account several factors: A. he wanted a huge contract and Washington was willing to pay him, B. he hated it in Pittsburgh, and was actually vocal about his disdain for everything in the city and the management, basically forcing his way out, and C. the Penguins were shipping off all of their big name players for little to nothing in return because the franchise was bankrupt and in danger of folding.

Had all of those criteria not been met, I'm absolutely, 100% sure the Pens weren't trading Jagr, one-time face of the franchise and Penguin draft pick and his ~1100 regular season points and ~150 playoff points (at the time) for 3 nobody prospects.

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Old
05-27-2009, 10:59 AM
  #148
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Originally Posted by I am The Mush View Post
Yeah, those firsts should be left out. Since you're trading JJ to Pitts for a center, might as well try to get Crosby too.

You leave out the firsts and the deal doesn't get done. Hell the Pens probably wouldn't do the deal with the first in there.
Then it doesn't get done. So, we trade for Vinny. Problem solved.

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