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07-13-2008, 11:19 AM
  #501
Nitehowl
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Originally Posted by Whitesnake View Post
You're sure you want my opinion???

Honestly while he had some ups and downs today, if I had to compare him to last year's invitee Loverock, I think I liked him just a little bit more. There's some technical aspects that he seems to already have. Looks solid on his feet and doesn't move his whole body when he does some lateral movement. But he let go some really bad goals today. Just showed me the inconsistency I didn't want us to spend a draft pick on. Having said that, I'm pretty sure he didn't deserve to not be chosen. He's not that bad. So I'm on the fence as far as he's concerned. I might be tempted to let him go for another year and see if he deserves being picked in the later rounds next draft or if he's still not being picked, to give him another try.

So I'm not sure we should sign him, so type of decision that if we do sign him, I'll understand 'cause Melanson would have seen obviously some things that can be worked on and if we don't, it's understandable 'cause he didn't wow anybody.

I guess it also depends on the 50 player list. Do they have room ?

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07-13-2008, 11:23 AM
  #502
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No, you can sign players that go undrafted after the draft, you have until September or so to sign them, after that they can't be signed and go back into the next draft. So Mayer can be signed if the Habs want to, just as they did with Olivier Michaud who was signed after his camp after going undrafted.
Thanks for the info!!

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07-13-2008, 12:54 PM
  #503
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Originally Posted by JrHockeyFan View Post
You seem to have more respect for NCAA than CHL hockey.
Are you really saying that to one of the biggest defender of the Q on these boards???? I've been called a thousand names for being too much pro-QMJHL . Thing is I follow that league a lot by TV and Internet so I choose to talk about something I know more.....

So it has nothing to do with Pro-NCAA vs CHL obviously. I just compare players to players no matter what league they are playing in. And as far as Weber-Fischer are concerned, I'm just convinced that neither Weber would have had that much success but more importantly, Fischer would have look much better and me also, I don't talk only about points. But since what is discussed a lot lately his Fischer's offensive skills, and don't worry I keep saying how Fischer has to have one of the worst slappers of our prospects and just an average wrister, he would still have had more success pointwise in any league in the CHL. But that's just an opinion based on what I think.

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07-13-2008, 01:34 PM
  #504
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Maxwell is already at the NHL level. Think Rucinski but better at protecting the puck and at taking heat and a better passer but doesnt shoot enough. If he hits the weight room and shoots more he is ready. His hockey sense is marvelous and that is something you cant teach. He needs to be allowed to play a more offensive game. I would love to see Maxwell, Kovy and Kots play.

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07-13-2008, 01:39 PM
  #505
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Originally Posted by toshiro View Post
Maxwell is already at the NHL level. Think Rucinski but better at protecting the puck and at taking heat and a better passer but doesnt shoot enough. If he hits the weight room and shoots more he is ready. His hockey sense is marvelous and that is something you cant teach. He needs to be allowed to play a more offensive game. I would love to see Maxwell, Kovy and Kots play.
What? He will need to play at least a year or two in Hamilton before playing in MTL. Even if he surprise us during the training camp.

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07-13-2008, 01:52 PM
  #506
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Personally I prefer NCAA to the other leagues. Then it's the WHL.

I like leagues where players have to be strong to succeed. Players who learn the tough play early. I feel it gives them a better chance of sucess at the next level. But then again, the OHL may develop more offensive minded players.. Its just that I like defensively conscious players. And you find the most of them in the NCAA and the WHL.

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07-13-2008, 02:19 PM
  #507
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Originally Posted by Whitesnake View Post
Are you really saying that to one of the biggest defender of the Q on these boards???? I've been called a thousand names for being too much pro-QMJHL . Thing is I follow that league a lot by TV and Internet so I choose to talk about something I know more.....

So it has nothing to do with Pro-NCAA vs CHL obviously. I just compare players to players no matter what league they are playing in. And as far as Weber-Fischer are concerned, I'm just convinced that neither Weber would have had that much success but more importantly, Fischer would have look much better and me also, I don't talk only about points. But since what is discussed a lot lately his Fischer's offensive skills, and don't worry I keep saying how Fischer has to have one of the worst slappers of our prospects and just an average wrister, he would still have had more success pointwise in any league in the CHL. But that's just an opinion based on what I think.
LOL. You keep sliding this discussion to different angles.

Everything here is pretty much based on opinion so I am not knocking anything you are saying. Leave Weber out of it for a minute

I have not seen Fischer play so I am not knocking his game in any respect. If he becomes a good defense non offense D guy that is fine. I just have trouble with the logic that he would score more in the CHL. He MIGHT, but as I was trying to point out previously, his offensive game quite possibly is stifled by style of play and coaching in college hockey. If such is the case I can buy that he would be able to score more if in fact he does have an offensive upside. Only the future will tell. But simply changing leagues does not necessarily guarantee more points because he "can't be that bad not to score more in the OHL". That line of logic does not fly.

Now bringing Weber back into it, I know that he does have an offensive game because it is a strength I have seen in many games. And as sure as you are about Fischer, I have faith that he could more than match Fischer's scoring totals in college hockey.

Anyway we each have our preferences

Quote:
Originally Posted by samuehl habs View Post
Personally I prefer NCAA to the other leagues. Then it's the WHL.

I like leagues where players have to be strong to succeed. Players who learn the tough play early. I feel it gives them a better chance of sucess at the next level. But then again, the OHL may develop more offensive minded players.. Its just that I like defensively conscious players. And you find the most of them in the NCAA and the WHL.
Perception varies on this. If you ask a fan in the OHL, the WHL style is to play a more defensive oriented game. There is also something to this in some NCAA programs. And yet if you look at this year's first round draft:

12 D men chosen: Doughty 2nd, Bogosian 3rd, Pietrangelo 4th, Del Zotto 20th, Cuma 23rd all from the OHL. Carlson at 27th is going to the OHL Knights. 4 from the WHL (Schenn 5, Myers 12, Teubert 13, Sbisa 19) 1 USHL Carlson27 , 1 Swede Karlsson 15, 1 high school gardiner 17. No D from NCAA first round (just 1 forward Wilson BU at 7th

The style a league plays can make offensive players look better or worse. The same goes for defensemen though too. There are good defensive defensemen in the O and good offensive defensemen in the W. It just makes it harder to tell sometimes


Last edited by Beakermania*: 07-14-2008 at 09:30 AM.
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07-13-2008, 03:07 PM
  #508
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Originally Posted by JrHockeyFan View Post
Perception varies on this. If you ask a fan in the OHL, the WHL style is to play a more defensive oriented game. There is also something to this in some NCAA programs. And yet if you look at this year's first round draft:

12 D men chosen: Doughty 2nd, Bogosian 3rd, Pietrangelo 4th, Del Zotto 20th, Cuma 23rd all from the OHL. Carlson at 27th is going to the OHL Knights. 4 from the WHL (Schenn 5, Myers 12, Teubert 13, Sbisa 19) 1 USHL Carlson27 , 1 Swede Karlsson 15, 1 high school gardiner 17. No D from NCAA first round (just 1 forward Wilson BU at 7th

The style a league plays can make offensive players look better or worse. The same goes for defensemen though too. There are good defensive defensemen in the O and good offensive defensemen in the W. It just makes it harder to tell sometimes
Players rarely ges drafted from NCAA as they usually play in high school 17 and go to NCAA at 18 so once they got drafted.

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07-13-2008, 03:31 PM
  #509
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Originally Posted by JrHockeyFan View Post
Perception varies on this. If you ask a fan in the OHL, the WHL style is to play a more defensive oriented game. There is also something to this in some NCAA programs. And yet if you look at this year's first round draft:

12 D men chosen: Doughty 2nd, Bogosian 3rd, Pietrangelo 4th, Del Zotto 20th, Cuma 23rd all from the OHL. Carlson at 27th is going to the OHL Knights. 4 from the WHL (Schenn 5, Myers 12, Teubert 13, Sbisa 19) 1 USHL Carlson27 , 1 Swede Karlsson 15, 1 high school gardiner 17. No D from NCAA first round (just 1 forward Wilson BU at 7th

The style a league plays can make offensive players look better or worse. The same goes for defensemen though too. There are good defensive defensemen in the O and good offensive defensemen in the W. It just makes it harder to tell sometimes
You can't judge a league by its exceptions. Out of the top talent you named there, OHL saw many of their defensemen drafter in the 1st round, but look at the names... all(or almost) guys who were taken for their offensive talents. From the WHL, names taht jump out to me are Schenn and Teubert, the two most physical defensemen in the league.

The league they play in seems to mold their game. Or they choose a league to fit the style they play. Anyhow, WHL is a more physical league than the OHL.

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07-14-2008, 01:38 AM
  #510
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Originally Posted by Carbo N8 View Post
It can't be said too many times, thanks to those who attended & took the time to report or comment. I enjoyed & appreciated every opinion.
My thoughts exactly! Thanks guys, what a good read.

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07-14-2008, 01:42 AM
  #511
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Originally Posted by Talent Analyst View Post
What? He will need to play at least a year or two in Hamilton before playing in MTL. Even if he surprise us during the training camp.
If his strength was there he would be ready. Much more than Gui Gui was. What more would he work on? He can replace Smoke tomorrow. He is very good defensively and can move the puck.

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07-14-2008, 02:17 AM
  #512
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Originally Posted by samuehl habs View Post
Personally I prefer NCAA to the other leagues. Then it's the WHL.

I like leagues where players have to be strong to succeed. Players who learn the tough play early. I feel it gives them a better chance of sucess at the next level. But then again, the OHL may develop more offensive minded players.. Its just that I like defensively conscious players. And you find the most of them in the NCAA and the WHL.
I agree with you, that's why I was (am) hoping Trunev would go to the WHL. If he can come out on the other side of such a physical league with a good development as well, I feel it'd be much better than having equal development in a much less physical league like the OHL or (yikes) the QMJHL. I have sort of a biased against the Q - in my mind it's not indicative of the higher levels of hockey, it appears to be a soft league. I mean, I don't see anybody in the WHL walking away with 150 point seasons (not to my knowledge anyway). I guess in the end many things rub off on a player during his developmental junior years, but like you, I would first and foremost choose the player to endure the trenches of a very physical league while honing his skills. A true test of character, and a great thing to become conditioned to, I'd say

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07-14-2008, 02:22 AM
  #513
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Erika sure hates those two-way players.... Higgins, Chips, now Fortier....




Let's just say, they're not my cup of tea at all

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07-14-2008, 08:11 AM
  #514
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I agree with you, that's why I was (am) hoping Trunev would go to the WHL. If he can come out on the other side of such a physical league with a good development as well, I feel it'd be much better than having equal development in a much less physical league like the OHL or (yikes) the QMJHL. I have sort of a biased against the Q - in my mind it's not indicative of the higher levels of hockey, it appears to be a soft league. I mean, I don't see anybody in the WHL walking away with 150 point seasons (not to my knowledge anyway). I guess in the end many things rub off on a player during his developmental junior years, but like you, I would first and foremost choose the player to endure the trenches of a very physical league while honing his skills. A true test of character, and a great thing to become conditioned to, I'd say
Same reasons why I wanted Trunev to the WHL. Don't like the Winterhawks though, but we'll have to deal with ti if Trunev comes over. He knows how to score, Trunev will light up the Q, it's not a big deal. In the WHL, he's gonna get a true taste of what the NHL game is like. If his skills shine through, we got a keeper.

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07-14-2008, 10:12 AM
  #515
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In the WHL, he's gonna get a true taste of what the NHL game is like. If his skills shine through, we got a keeper.
Not in the same mold as Marcel Hossa or Jozef Balej, I hope.

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07-26-2008, 02:11 AM
  #516
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I've been a fan of White since before he was drafted, and aside from you I think I like him more then most around here although I'm concerned about his skating/foot speed and mobility, I like the way he plays the game and if his skating concerns don't hamper him at the next level, then I really like his NHL chances down the road a few years. But I have to see how he does at the AHL first to get a better read on him.

For me it's been tough ranking him and Maxwell as I often rated White higher due to the fact that he plays a more nhl style, good on face-offs, good along the boards, not a big frame in height but compact and strong for his age, plays a solid physical game, makes nice passes but also has a good wrister and he is solid in his own end, plus he'll drop the gloves and block shots. But Maxwell has qualities that White doesn't, speed, excellent skating, and an impressive extra gear as he has good accelearation, his speed imo is deceptive in that his style of play looks like he's more laid back but then suddenly can burst up ice in a hurry. Would love to see White greatly improve in this area but that won't be easy and remains to be seen if possible.

Maxwell on the other hand doesn't have the grit and sandpaper that White has, but if he can be productive than he's going to be a quality player since he's smart and skilled. I find it very interesting to see how these two develop as we are low on quality forward prospects (not counting the '08's since I can't really speak to their level of play as yet) We hear all the hype on Pacioretty and imo it's well deserved, if fans are to get excited about any of our past prospects not named Price, Pacioretty should be among Timmins better picks at least in the early stages of his development, imo. But if the team can develop two more NHLers in Maxwell and White in say 3-4 years from now, then it's going to bode well for the club as they each will bring some interesting aspects.

The question will start with how effective they can be at the next level, how they improve upon their weaknesses, can White improve his skating/mobility and if not how badly will it impact his play/production, and will the injuries return for Maxwell, or the missed development time have a big impact on his progression. Clearly both have impressive skills and imo are among our top prospects, which is both good and bad, as on one hand it exposes a weakness in the organizational prospect pool that has a clear lack of quality forward prospects, which that may have already been addressed if this past draft's crop of forwards does indeed display good things, which given the recent drafting trend since the '03 draft, certainly looks good time will tell if thats the case or not. On the other hand, both have shown impressive things at the WHL level and hopefully will carry that over to the AHL as soon as next season.
Dan, good points. I saw a lot of Whitey live this past season and really liked what I saw. He is slow skating but all his other attributes including leadership are really evident. Teams need guys like him to win.

Maxwell is a really different story to me. He was injured and I only saw one live game...so a bit of grain of salt needed. He was still enigmatic despite his lack of play with his horrible injury issue. A good and skilled player that I liked since the CHL-Russia challenge, but I still am not sure how he will convert in the pros. He has incredible hockey sense for sure.

I honestly put Whitey as a more likely NHLer but Maxwell has the biggest upside...a lot of injuries being the biggest question mark.

Cheers.

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07-26-2008, 01:21 PM
  #517
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Originally Posted by NWT Habs Fan View Post
Dan, good points. I saw a lot of Whitey live this past season and really liked what I saw. He is slow skating but all his other attributes including leadership are really evident. Teams need guys like him to win.

Maxwell is a really different story to me. He was injured and I only saw one live game...so a bit of grain of salt needed. He was still enigmatic despite his lack of play with his horrible injury issue. A good and skilled player that I liked since the CHL-Russia challenge, but I still am not sure how he will convert in the pros. He has incredible hockey sense for sure.

I honestly put Whitey as a more likely NHLer but Maxwell has the biggest upside...a lot of injuries being the biggest question mark.

Cheers.
Yea I like what I've seen from White and if his skating/foot speed problems can be improved, then I think we got a really solid prospect on our hands. Maxwell it's been hard to get a good read on him as he's missed so much time, the skills are there for sure and I like his smarts plus his skating is great. I'm not as high on Maxwell as others as he plays a very passive game but I like his skills and can't wait to see how these two do in Hamilton.

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05-28-2009, 06:20 AM
  #518
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Pat O'Keefe, Alex Wall and Pier-Antoine Dion are all great players from Montreal's Q team that I think would be worthwhile for the Canadiens to either draft or have at prospect camp.

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05-28-2009, 06:26 AM
  #519
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Pat O'Keefe, Alex Wall and Pier-Antoine Dion are all great players from Montreal's Q team that I think would be worthwhile for the Canadiens to either draft or have at prospect camp.
Honestly, I don't see Wall not being drafted. His CSS ranking is a pure joke in my mind. As far as Dion is concerned, well I totally agree. I don't think he'll be drafted but what puzzles me the most as far as he's concerned is that because of the injuries late in the year, they started to give him more an offensive role and he started to do real well.

Dion might have the potential in the end to be a better Olivier Fortier. A great energy guy, great balance on his skates that might have more offensive potential that he showed this year due to the role he had. I would not draft him, or if I would it would solely be as a 7th rounder (I want my 9 rounds back....). But if not, he's TOTALLY a guy I would invite. He has some great foot speed, he has to be of some kind of interest for the Habs.

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