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Points Per Game : Koivu vs. Kovalev

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05-27-2009, 08:54 PM
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Originally Posted by Dr. Charles View Post
You can always compare the past stats. But I'm expecting way more from Kovalev than from Koivu for the years to come...
Bingo. How the heck does past stats mean anything? Okay, people will be able to say that Koivu was more productive. But what does it say for next year and the years to come? Does people really not wonder about the fact that Koivu can't play more than 19 minutes per game and it won't be better as the years passes by? Are people not realizing how more and more he's getting beat 1 on 1 more easily and can't overpower despite his size like he used to? As far as Kovalev is concerned, one of his biggest asset is the fact that despite his ordinairy stats (for some), he is still part of the other team's playbook. I believe that this guy will be 70 year old and other teams will still watch him. Watching him means somebody else might be open. Kovalev is still regarded as a threat. Don't believe it's the case for Koivu as much.

Still.....it all depends who we have depth wise or who we can get to know if we need 1 or both. If you have Plekanec and Maxwell as your first 2 centermen, well prepare to tank. If that's what we want, well let's do it. If not, well you keep Koivu for depth.

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05-27-2009, 09:23 PM
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We need leadership and heart more than cowardice and selfish play.

We keep Koivu.

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05-27-2009, 09:25 PM
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I want to keep them both. Koivu made EVERY winger he played with better. Kovalev was a monster after BG took over behind the bench, too little too late however.

HNIC just reported the Kovalev rumor so there has to be at least some truth to it. Maybe.... just Maybe, Kovalev told BG he wouldn't sign if he wasn't captain. If that's the case, and I hope it wouldn't be, then I'm very disappointed in BG. Logically that's the only thing that makes sense for the rumor to be true. Koivu deserves more respect than that, he's earned it.

If he's not back then Koivu will be an unbelievable asset to his new team. I see him signing for 4-6 million as a 2nd line centre, which is a role he's best suited for at this stage of his career, secondary scoring.

BG may be trading negotiating rights with Minnesota ( Koivu /Gaborik ).... that would be interesting, but I think BG needs to clarify things at this moment just out of respect for Koivu.

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05-27-2009, 09:35 PM
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Everybody wants Koivu out, but I want him to stay as our No.2 center/captain who will lead by example (like he's always done, giving a constant effort, but some other players seems to prefer following Kovalev's Dipsy-Doodle style) but won't have all the offensive task on his shoulders.

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05-27-2009, 11:12 PM
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Without Koivu or Kovalev, this is our depth:


A Kostitsyn
S Kostitsyn

This is without signing anyone. I think we need a center much more than a winger. On the wing, A Kosts needs more ice time. That's the only way we find out if he is a true top winger in this league or just another enhancement talent and he won't do that with Kovalev monopilzing all the top minutes and linemates. Ideally Koivu could come back as a #2 C with Gainey acquiring a different #1 C. This would give us a good 1-2 punch down the middle with Laps, Metro, Chips filling the bottom two lines. Giving us the option to trade Pleks to fill a hole or to package for the #1 C.

Centers are more important than wingers. Centers can play wing. So that's what we need.

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05-28-2009, 08:35 AM
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I think Mike8 nailed it in the other thread. Fans need to clear their minds of the illusion that it has to be Koivu vs. Kovalev, or keep one, or keep neither, etc. There's no need for conflict or an adversarial comparison there. Yes, they're different players and bring different things to the game. I don't see why we can't appreciate those different things. And assign independent values to them. And hope to re-sign both of them so that those things come back to the team next year. All at the right price/term.

But it should be a separate consideration from the quest to find a true star player or develop a longterm championship core. To me, Koivu and Kovalev are *both* complementary players at this point. Good ones, mind you... Koivu could center a #1 line and set up a real star calibre sniper on his wings very nicely. Kovalev is a powerplay force and a player that other teams have to watch closely. Either would be huge assets in lesser roles. But you'd be out of your tree to expect either one of them to be the main pillar of a championship team.

Still, if your goal is to have a championship team in the nearest term possible, then retaining them should be part of the equation. We *should* have enough cap space to do that and to take a stab at the closest approximation to a star player that is on the market this summer (Hossa as a FA, or Lecavalier or whoever by trade, etc). So that forms your baseline gameplan. There is additional grounds for optimism in the viability of that gameplan given that Koivu and Kovalev both seem to be attached to the organization and hopeful of returning.

If for some reason the pricetag for one gets out of line with the value you've placed on him, then maybe things change. It's impossible for us as fans to really weigh that consideration at this point. But it should still be an independent evaluation, not a Koivu vs. Kovalev one.

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05-28-2009, 09:45 AM
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Originally Posted by Lafleurs Guy View Post
Both guys are in their mid to late thirties. There aren't many 'years to come' for either of these guys.

I don't see why we can't re-sign them both though.
I'd like that best. In a perfect world, signing kovalev and koivu to bargain deals would be great. Keeping tanguay in the fold would be awesome. That line played extremely well.

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05-28-2009, 09:49 AM
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People need to realize that if they habs aren't signing Koivu, its because he doesn't want to come back and not because Gainey don't want him. Kovalev DOES want to come back.

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05-28-2009, 12:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Dr. Charles View Post
True we have to sign 10 players, but after 15 years of pure disapointment, I'm listening to myself and my attachment to hockey is still very strong, my attachment to this team is fading. Seriously : weak, small, streaky, passive, peripheric... it's everything but what I'd expect for my team.

Enough with the small unproud teams. It's starts with the Captain, even if it's really his fault or not.
Cmon really? "Unproud"? I think the only thing keeping players from having pride in the jersey are the guys in the stands wearing the same jersey.

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