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The Official "Danny Boy" Thread

View Poll Results: What do you wish?
I hope he remains a Flyer, despite his contract. 59 55.66%
I hope Holmgren trades him ASAP. 47 44.34%
Voters: 106. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
05-29-2009, 01:09 PM
  #26
UseYourAllusion
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Libertine View Post
Giroux.

We have enough offense anyway.
Giroux is 21 years old and has played in 50 NHL games. I don't think it's reasonable to assume that he is a surefire point per game player just yet.

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05-29-2009, 01:17 PM
  #27
Haute Couturier
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Originally Posted by UseYourAllusion View Post
Giroux is 21 years old and has played in 50 NHL games. I don't think it's reasonable to assume that he is a surefire point per game player just yet.
Not yet, but his offensive game is a bit similar to Briere's. Plus we have 2 PPG centers that play defense so how exactly don't we have anyone with Briere's offensive capabilites? Briere is a luxury at this point, nothing more. Hew is not vital to this team's success and his cap space would be best used elsewhere.

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05-29-2009, 01:27 PM
  #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jester View Post
Examples are examples that disprove idiotic absolute statements of certainty. Unless you have had direct conversations with Briere, you have no clue what personal motivations might lead to or not lead to him waiving his NMC. However, what the examples show is that there are reasons guys waive their NMCs and it happens with some regularity...in all sports.

Why is Briere so different from other players that have waived their NTCs?
So 2 examples over the past 4 years or so is enough evidence that players in hockey waive their trade clauses with "regularity"?

If I get 2 Bs in 4 years of college, is that evidence that I get Bs with regularity?

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Old
05-29-2009, 01:30 PM
  #29
UseYourAllusion
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Libertine View Post
Not yet, but his offensive game is a bit similar to Briere's.
His game is absolutely similar. But I am not ready to lay that kind of pressure in Giroux. He is a young player, who will suffer slumps, he needs the cushion of not needing to be a top-four point scorer night in and night out.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Libertine View Post
Plus we have 2 PPG centers that play defense so how exactly don't we have anyone with Briere's offensive capabilites? Briere is a luxury at this point, nothing more. Hew is not vital to this team's success and his cap space would be best used elsewhere.
I have no doubt that Carter will suffer a regression toward the mean. I would not expect 46 goals from him again. Lupul is the real luxury to me, I'd rather see him shipped out than Briere. At the begining of last season, it looked like Briere would be productive as a right wing with one of our top units, that is the look I'd like to see again. Something like:

Gagne-Richards-Briere
Hartnell-Carter-Giroux

I also think Briere stabilizes the powerplay, it is no accident that the powerplay suffered from extended bouts of inconsistency last season.


Last edited by UseYourAllusion: 05-29-2009 at 01:36 PM.
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Old
05-29-2009, 01:39 PM
  #30
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Originally Posted by FlyHigh View Post
So 2 examples over the past 4 years or so is enough evidence that players in hockey waive their trade clauses with "regularity"?

If I get 2 Bs in 4 years of college, is that evidence that I get Bs with regularity?
Brad Richards.

Dan Boyle.

More important question to ask: why are hockey players different from other athletes with NTCs?

Even more important question to ask: why does it have to be with "regularity" in order for there to be valid speculation that he could waive his NTC? And, btw, it does appear to happen with pretty good regularity given the supposed certainty you're implying.

You should note that I'm not saying Briere will, or that I think he would (I would be surprised if either were true) waive his NTC, but that doesn't make assertions of absolute certainty that he would not exist in any sort of reality that we are living with. There is a wealth of observable instances where players allowed deals to go through.

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05-29-2009, 02:16 PM
  #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jester View Post
Brad Richards.

Dan Boyle.

More important question to ask: why are hockey players different from other athletes with NTCs?

Even more important question to ask: why does it have to be with "regularity" in order for there to be valid speculation that he could waive his NTC? And, btw, it does appear to happen with pretty good regularity given the supposed certainty you're implying.

You should note that I'm not saying Briere will, or that I think he would (I would be surprised if either were true) waive his NTC, but that doesn't make assertions of absolute certainty that he would not exist in any sort of reality that we are living with. There is a wealth of observable instances where players allowed deals to go through.
Again, give me solid reasons.

Boyle and Richards waived them because TB at that time was becoming a joke that obviously wasn't going to be contending any time soon.

In no way does that situation apply whatsoever to Briere.

Again, give me solid reasons why he would voluntarily waive it. Unless you think the organization forcing him to waive it would be a good idea.

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Old
05-29-2009, 02:23 PM
  #32
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My thinking is if Briere does waive it the NTC it will be to where he wants to go. Briere holds all the cards. Holmer just cant say "look we have a deal in place to send you to Atlanta, are you willing to waive your NTC"? Not going to happen. If he agrees to a deal then its where he wants to go whether its Montreal, Ottawa ect ect.
Then comes the question of return. Could the Flyers get what is deemed "fair value"? I am not so sure. For that reason, I will be shocked if he is traded. Lupul, Carle, Jones get moved before Briere.

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05-29-2009, 02:23 PM
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyHigh View Post
Not really, Briere took a bit of a discount to sign here (look at what Drury and Gomez signed for) in return for a longer deal and the comfort of not having to worry about being traded.

That was the bargain the Flyers made. If they force him to waive it, they break that bargain, you think other players wouldn't notice?

One of the reasons Detroit has been so successful is that they resign their players at well-below market price because they build up good will.
BS.

If we won that many cups in such a short time and had such a solid collection of players in the organization, of course players will sign cheap to play there.

Just look at NJ and how they sign players below market value. Do you think it's because they are nice to their players? Doubtful. It's because they have a solid system and a history of winning Cups. Just like Detroit.

If the Flyers won like 4 cups in the past 13 years then players would line up to sign here also. We may have a high win percentage (I'm also looking at you Montreal) but we are lacking when it comes to winning Cups.

Why do you think we had to pay Briere $52 mill? Because we sucked. Guess who else was in the running for him? Other people who havent won cups recently.

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05-29-2009, 02:32 PM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IrishSniper87 View Post
BS.

If we won that many cups in such a short time and had such a solid collection of players in the organization, of course players will sign cheap to play there.

Just look at NJ and how they sign players below market value. Do you think it's because they are nice to their players? Doubtful. It's because they have a solid system and a history of winning Cups. Just like Detroit.

If the Flyers won like 4 cups in the past 13 years then players would line up to sign here also. We may have a high win percentage (I'm also looking at you Montreal) but we are lacking when it comes to winning Cups.

Why do you think we had to pay Briere $52 mill? Because we sucked. Guess who else was in the running for him? Other people who havent won cups recently.
Yeah, but we haven't. And Briere did take a cut, I think it's pretty common knowledge that the Habs offered him 7 mill a year and he would have been a hero in Quebec if he had signed.

The Flyers want to keep their reputation up as a good franchise to play for. A lot of the guys we've brought in and some that we've developed have always said that the organization is very professional and that the fans are one of the most passionate groups in the NHL. If we start to develop a pattern of forcing players to waive NMCs and/or throwing them in the AHL if they make what we deem to be too much money (even if we signed them to the contract), we're going to lose that reputation.

I think the fact that we are a great hockey town and a professional organization helps us a lot on the FA market, we were able to sign a guy like Kimmo for less than what he probably would have made on the open market, possibly the same with Hartnell. Why would we throw that away?

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Old
05-29-2009, 02:33 PM
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyHigh View Post
Again, give me solid reasons.

Boyle and Richards waived them because TB at that time was becoming a joke that obviously wasn't going to be contending any time soon.

In no way does that situation apply whatsoever to Briere.

Again, give me solid reasons why he would voluntarily waive it. Unless you think the organization forcing him to waive it would be a good idea.
Well giving you the kind of "solid reasons" you seem to be looking for should prove difficult since I doubt that many people here have regular access to the Flyers locker room, meetings between Danny and Homer, or the inner workings of Danny Briere's mind.

I can't give you any "solid" reasons because I haven't personally talked to Danny at length about his feelings about being traded, but here are some possible reasons:

1. He is unhappy being relegated to a third line winger when he was signed to be a first line center.
2. He's had a change of heart and wants to play in Canada after all.
3. The fan base might sour on him soon (like McCabe) and he might accept a trade to somewhere a little more forgiving.
4. His injury issues the last season have made him upset with the Flyers medical staff and subsequently with the Flyers management (wait...I feel like I've seen that one before...)

Who knows what possible reasons Briere might have for accepting a trade. Until you get a deal in place and ask him to waive his NMC, you can't say that there is 0% chance he waives it.

Which brings me to the original point of the thread of whether WE would like him to be moved, not whether Danny would. And yes, as much as I like him on offense and what he brings to the power play, the opportunity cost of his contract is too high. He's not killing the team on the ice, but he's certainly hurting it on the books. If he can be moved, you gotta do it.

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05-29-2009, 02:34 PM
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyHigh View Post
I laid down this challenge in the other thread, but since this is the Danny thread, I'll do it here too.

Name me 3 incontrovertible reasons why Briere would ever waive his NMC.

name me 3 incontrovertible reasons why Briere would NOT ever waive his NMC.

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Old
05-29-2009, 02:44 PM
  #37
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I'd keep him, and not only because there isn't much a choice too or not. His health is what the main concern is. A healthy Brier is a major contributor to this team because he'll produce on a consistent basis, which most of the younger guys on the team have yet to do especially in the playoffs.

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05-29-2009, 02:46 PM
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dawkins121 View Post
Well giving you the kind of "solid reasons" you seem to be looking for should prove difficult since I doubt that many people here have regular access to the Flyers locker room, meetings between Danny and Homer, or the inner workings of Danny Briere's mind.

I can't give you any "solid" reasons because I haven't personally talked to Danny at length about his feelings about being traded, but here are some possible reasons:

1. He is unhappy being relegated to a third line winger when he was signed to be a first line center.
2. He's had a change of heart and wants to play in Canada after all.
3. The fan base might sour on him soon (like McCabe) and he might accept a trade to somewhere a little more forgiving.
4. His injury issues the last season have made him upset with the Flyers medical staff and subsequently with the Flyers management (wait...I feel like I've seen that one before...)

Who knows what possible reasons Briere might have for accepting a trade. Until you get a deal in place and ask him to waive his NMC, you can't say that there is 0% chance he waives it.

Which brings me to the original point of the thread of whether WE would like him to be moved, not whether Danny would. And yes, as much as I like him on offense and what he brings to the power play, the opportunity cost of his contract is too high. He's not killing the team on the ice, but he's certainly hurting it on the books. If he can be moved, you gotta do it.
1. Good one. Perhaps he is mad he can't be the premier Center since Carter and Richards have since bypassed him on the depth chart.
2. Possible, maybe he likes Haddonfield though.
3. True, I believe he was popular in Buffalo.
4. Lindros?

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05-29-2009, 02:50 PM
  #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PhillyFan4Ever View Post
name me 3 incontrovertible reasons why Briere would NOT ever waive his NMC.
1) Philadelphia is a great place to play hockey, passionate fans and a professional organization.

2) He moved his family here, not sure if his kids are old enough for school, but if they are, why would you want to relocate them?

3) The Flyers have a great, young nucleus that should be able to contend for at least the next 6 years, furthermore, the Flyers do have a solid drafting record.

Those are 3 solid reasons to stay, give me 3 solid ones to leave.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dawkins121
1. He is unhappy being relegated to a third line winger when he was signed to be a first line center.
2. He's had a change of heart and wants to play in Canada after all.
3. The fan base might sour on him soon (like McCabe) and he might accept a trade to somewhere a little more forgiving.
4. His injury issues the last season have made him upset with the Flyers medical staff and subsequently with the Flyers management (wait...I feel like I've seen that one before...)
1. I doubt it, he gets loads of PP time, much less defensive responsibilities, gets to play with Giroux, and was at a PPG this past year. Furthermore, he'll be top-6 this year.

2. Seeing as he rejected MTL and is hated there, why would he want to go Canada? To play for TOR? Briere is the opposite of a Brian Burke player.

3. No evidence of this yet outside of 15 fans on HFboards.

4. Possible, but not likely. If players got upset about stuff like this, Gagne would have been out of here a long time ago.

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05-29-2009, 02:50 PM
  #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyHigh View Post
Again, give me solid reasons.

Boyle and Richards waived them because TB at that time was becoming a joke that obviously wasn't going to be contending any time soon.
Boyle waived it because TB threatened to waive him and he would have ended up at a location not necessarily of his choice...personally, I think it would have been fascinating to see him call them on it.

Quote:
In no way does that situation apply whatsoever to Briere.
Players with NTCs waiving them....doesn't apply to a player with a NMC potentially waiving his?

Give me a break.

Quote:
Again, give me solid reasons why he would voluntarily waive it. Unless you think the organization forcing him to waive it would be a good idea.
Doesn't matter if I think it is a good idea. Moreover, providing solid reasons or the lack thereof doesn't prove your ridiculous rigid belief system with regard to this. I agree with you, I don't think he's going to waive it. I think this is a good team, he has a nice house, and there's no real reason to seek life elsewhere.

However, that doesn't mean people should have you soapboxing and browbeating them in terms of discussing the possibility of Briere waiving his NMC when it is abundantly clear that players do in fact waive their NMCs. Whether Briere will or will not does not matter, the fact of the matter is that your certainty and desire to censor the very discussion of it is based in a overly simplistic claim that has the buoyancy of the Titantic post-ice berg.

Will he waive it? I don't think so.

Could he possibly waive it? Sure.

Quote:
Originally Posted by PhillyFan4Ever View Post
name me 3 incontrovertible reasons why Briere would NOT ever waive his NMC.
Dude...it's more than that. There are plenty of good reasons for him not to waive his NMC.

The real basis of FlyHigh's claims of certainty to the point that trading options should be censored for discussion must ultimately rest in a belief that Briere is distinct from other players who have waived their NTCs. The reasons for and against waiving a NTC are personal, and no poster is capable of truly addressing the pros and cons for him. So, he's demanding something that no one can provide while resting his own certainty on something he can't know -- Briere's personal thoughts.

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05-29-2009, 02:51 PM
  #41
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Originally Posted by FlyHigh View Post
3. No evidence of this yet outside of 15 fans on HFboards.
He was getting unmercifully booed his first season here before he turned it on down the stretch.

But, you're right, no evidence other than booing.

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05-29-2009, 02:52 PM
  #42
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I like Briere but...

Dealing Danny would solve a lot of cap headaches for Homer, this is undeniable. Although I doubt it happens in the next year, I do believe Briere will be dealt to a team of his choosing. IMO, it'll hinge on his health next year. He will produce if he's healthy and it's much easier to dangle an 80 point center than it is a 20 point gimpy one. Players do waive these NMC's on occasion, if the situation is right for them.

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05-29-2009, 02:59 PM
  #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jester View Post
Boyle waived it because TB threatened to waive him and he would have ended up at a location not necessarily of his choice...personally, I think it would have been fascinating to see him call them on it.
So we should be like TB and threaten to waive our best players? Seems to have worked outstandingly well for them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jester
Players with NTCs waiving them....doesn't apply to a player with a NMC potentially waiving his?

Give me a break.
The point is that TB is a joke organization with no chance of contending soon. We are a professional organization and a perennial contender. Spot the difference?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jester
Doesn't matter if I think it is a good idea. Moreover, providing solid reasons or the lack thereof doesn't prove your ridiculous rigid belief system with regard to this. I agree with you, I don't think he's going to waive it. I think this is a good team, he has a nice house, and there's no real reason to seek life elsewhere.

However, that doesn't mean people should have you soapboxing and browbeating them in terms of discussing the possibility of Briere waiving his NMC when it is abundantly clear that players do in fact waive their NMCs. Whether Briere will or will not does not matter, the fact of the matter is that your certainty and desire to censor the very discussion of it is based in a overly simplistic claim that has the buoyancy of the Titantic post-ice berg.
I'm not "censoring" the discussion, discuss in this thread all you want. I'm also not saying that it's a certainty that he won't waive it, but I find it extremely unlikely for the reasons I mentioned.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jester
He was getting unmercifully booed his first season here before he turned it on down the stretch.

But, you're right, no evidence other than booing.
I don't recall this at all, maybe some of our STH's can shed some light on the issue? Anyways, he was strong for us in the playoffs and I thought he did well this past season considering I'm not sure he was ever at 100% after the past 9 games.

If he gets put on the wing and puts up 85 points, people will love him, Philly is a very fickle town.

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05-29-2009, 03:09 PM
  #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyHigh View Post
1) Philadelphia is a great place to play hockey, passionate fans and a professional organization.

2) He moved his family here, not sure if his kids are old enough for school, but if they are, why would you want to relocate them?

3) The Flyers have a great, young nucleus that should be able to contend for at least the next 6 years, furthermore, the Flyers do have a solid drafting record.

Those are 3 solid reasons to stay, give me 3 solid ones to leave.


those are not incontrovertible. incontrovertible means,incontestable, undeniable, unquestionable.....

your challenge is flawed. when someone gives you reasons and cite examples of others based on those reasons. you state that those reasons do not pertain to danny, so therefore are moot.

your theory goes the same way. its a retarded challenge that boarderline rhetorical.

what flyer fan in their right mind would oppose you on number 1?

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05-29-2009, 03:18 PM
  #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyHigh View Post

I don't recall this at all, maybe some of our STH's can shed some light on the issue? Anyways, he was strong for us in the playoffs and I thought he did well this past season considering I'm not sure he was ever at 100% after the past 9 games.

If he gets put on the wing and puts up 85 points, people will love him, Philly is a very fickle town.
I can vouch for that. During that year it was my senior year and I went to a ton of Flyers games. They would boo Danny nightly. I even remember hearing the booing through the TV. You dont remember that? There was a thread last year based off of just the booing.

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05-29-2009, 03:23 PM
  #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sa cyred View Post
I can vouch for that. During that year it was my senior year and I went to a ton of Flyers games. They would boo Danny nightly. I even remember hearing the booing through the TV. You dont remember that? There was a thread last year based off of just the booing.
I remember that. I remember being at some games and hear fans scream at Danny. "Your not worth your contract you piece of ****!" Stuff of that nature. Every time he touched the puck he was getting booed.

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05-29-2009, 03:27 PM
  #47
FlyHigh
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PhillyFan4Ever View Post
those are not incontrovertible. incontrovertible means,incontestable, undeniable, unquestionable.....

your challenge is flawed. when someone gives you reasons and cite examples of others based on those reasons. you state that those reasons do not pertain to danny, so therefore are moot.

your theory goes the same way. its a retarded challenge that boarderline rhetorical.

what flyer fan in their right mind would oppose you on number 1?
Meh fine, bad word choice, I was annoyed that so many people seem to think that Briere will waive his NMC at the drop of hat, sub in 'solid'.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sa cyred
I can vouch for that. During that year it was my senior year and I went to a ton of Flyers games. They would boo Danny nightly. I even remember hearing the booing through the TV. You dont remember that? There was a thread last year based off of just the booing.
Haha guess I should quit drinking, I have awful short-term memory for specific incidents and stuff, great long-term memory though.

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05-29-2009, 03:51 PM
  #48
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4. Possible, but not likely. If players got upset about stuff like this, Gagne would have been out of here a long time ago.
It's not Gagne that I'm thinking of...go back even further.

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Old
05-29-2009, 06:24 PM
  #49
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This poll has way to few choices available.

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Old
05-29-2009, 07:11 PM
  #50
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Giroux.

We have enough offense anyway.
Not yet.

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