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Young top 6 wingers this offseason

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Old
05-29-2009, 01:48 PM
  #26
BallinLikeComrie
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Originally Posted by solo16 View Post
Well i dont think its the ideal deal for Detroit. But the value is decent if we have to free up cap space. Holland would definitely consider it.

I agree, I dont think the sens would make the best trading partners. Lee and our first this year are all we really have to offer in terms of assets that are worth anything. I am also pretty against trading Lee unless it would be for someone like filpulla, i really started to appreciate him earlier this season and his post season this year has been solid despite his lack of goal scoring. The sens need help up front however they can get it though.

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05-29-2009, 01:52 PM
  #27
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Andrew Ladd could be avaible this summer.

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05-29-2009, 01:57 PM
  #28
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Originally Posted by nyrtrublue View Post
Rangers need an inexpensive foward with skill what would u think of some kind of deal involving giraridi. im not a fan of moving giraridi but defensive depth is a rangers strength
You might be surprised at how expensive Wolski and Svatos are compared to Girardi.

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05-29-2009, 01:57 PM
  #29
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Andrew Ladd could be avaible this summer.
Why is that?

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05-29-2009, 01:57 PM
  #30
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Originally Posted by BallinLikeComrie View Post
I agree, I dont think the sens would make the best trading partners. Lee and our first this year are all we really have to offer in terms of assets that are worth anything. I am also pretty against trading Lee unless it would be for someone like filpulla, i really started to appreciate him earlier this season and his post season this year has been solid despite his lack of goal scoring. The sens need help up front however they can get it though.
Filp is still a developing prospect in many ways.

Currently
He is a Great (not elite) checking center.
He is a Great (not elite) Playmaking center
With Great speed
Already a second line center

Future (possible)
He has a decent wrist shot with confidence he may gain some finishing skills and develop ala Pavel Datsyuk. (fairly likely)
His playmaking or checking either could become elite.

Hes become a much stronger player this year people just didnt realize it till the playoffs because we used him as a checker. Im not sure he will ever be an elite first line center but he could be a semi passive first line center who is defensively responsible or a very very strong 2nd line guy.

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05-29-2009, 01:59 PM
  #31
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Originally Posted by PeterTheGreat View Post
Marek Svatos-Would want a 2nd rounder at least in this years draft.

Wojtek Wolski-A young potential starting goalie or young dman.


Rangers need an inexpensive foward with skill what would u think of some kind of deal involving giraridi. im not a fan of moving giraridi but defensive depth is a rangers strength

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Old
05-29-2009, 02:47 PM
  #32
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Originally Posted by projexns View Post
Wouldn't Cheechoo be available before Michalek?
Yes, Cheechoo is likely to go before Michalek. He was even before the Sharks choked again in the playoffs. They're up against the cap and need to re-sign Clowe (an RFA). If Clowe doesn't re-sign, then it's possible the Sharks keep Cheechoo.

The OP asked for players around 25 yrs old. Michalek is 24 and Cheechoo is 28...

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Originally Posted by projexns View Post
Sharks already have a top six of Thornton, Marleau, Michalek, Pavelski, Clowe, Setoguchi without Jonathan.

If I were Atlanta I'd put the 34th pick of the '09 draft on the table for him, and see if the Sharks could get a better offer.
By him do you mean Cheechoo? If so, Sharks should do that deal.

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05-29-2009, 02:49 PM
  #33
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Originally Posted by Senatorsfan56 View Post
Andrew Ladd could be avaible this summer.
not this summer, if he were it would be the next summer

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05-29-2009, 02:52 PM
  #34
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Originally Posted by Senatorsfan56 View Post
Andrew Ladd could be avaible this summer.
Not a chance in hell that Andrew Ladd is available. Kris Versteeg might be, though.

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Old
05-29-2009, 03:03 PM
  #35
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Originally Posted by solo16 View Post
You can have him straight up for your first the 5th overall. Hell we will probably even thrown in a lowish pick (3rd or below) for the 5th overall. I think anything more than that would be typical HF pick over valuation. Though Second would be a possibility in theory.

Hudler would be cheeper imo.
In 5 years if you think that Filp will be better than Kane/Schenn/MPS, I think that you sorely mistaken. Yes he is having a good playoffs, but lets not forget that he is 25 and scored 40 points this season. Hell, Jiri Tlusty had better numbers that Filppula in the AHL and is 4 years younger. To think that Filp is worth the 5th overall is typical HF homerism. Forgive me if I don't put much stock in your statement that "anything more than that would be typical HF pick over valuation." Sounds a bit to O'Reilly-esk for my liking.

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Old
05-29-2009, 03:19 PM
  #36
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Originally Posted by solo16 View Post
Filp is still a developing prospect in many ways.

Currently
He is a Great (not elite) checking center.
He is a Great (not elite) Playmaking center
With Great speed
Already a second line center

Future (possible)
He has a decent wrist shot with confidence he may gain some finishing skills and develop ala Pavel Datsyuk. (fairly likely)
His playmaking or checking either could become elite.

Hes become a much stronger player this year people just didnt realize it till the playoffs because we used him as a checker. Im not sure he will ever be an elite first line center but he could be a semi passive first line center who is defensively responsible or a very very strong 2nd line guy.
I'm sorry, but you are massively overrating Filppula here.

He had 12 goals this season, and you claim he is already a second liner. That's a huge stretch, then to suggest that he is going to be anything near Datsyuk is ridiculous.

He's a very good third line center, but it's kind of funny that you think the Wings will get the fifth overall pick for him.

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05-29-2009, 03:28 PM
  #37
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Yeah guys Im more looking for players who would actually be moved by their teams for market value. In other words , someone like a Kessel might be avaiable but not unless you want to overpay. Im talking more about readily available guys. Oh and also what teams need top 6 guys right now?

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Old
05-29-2009, 03:35 PM
  #38
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Originally Posted by PeterTheGreat View Post
Marek Svatos-Would want a 2nd rounder at least in this years draft.

Wojtek Wolski-A young potential starting goalie or young dman.
2 things:
1) he's only hit 50 pt once which was 4 seasons ago
2) I firmly believe he will never play in the playoffs ever again

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Old
05-29-2009, 03:43 PM
  #39
solo16
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Originally Posted by Letang58 View Post
I'm sorry, but you are massively overrating Filppula here.

He had 12 goals this season, and you claim he is already a second liner. That's a huge stretch, then to suggest that he is going to be anything near Datsyuk is ridiculous.

He's a very good third line center, but it's kind of funny that you think the Wings will get the fifth overall pick for him.
See Stanley cup finals, last year. When he out played Malkin.
See WCF this year when he was our second line center for all but 1 game.
See WSF this year where he spent several games as second line center.
See most of last year where he was second line center.

This year he has been our third line center with no power play time for almost every game of the season. His scoring is low because of that. He is one of the highest even strength scorers on the DRW if i recall. He is a versatile player and we have the luxury of using him in a defensive role this season and as our Num 1 pker.

That is all on that.

As for the Datsyuk comment. I dont expect him to be as good as Datsyuk. Frankly he doesnt have Datsyuk's dangling skills (no one does). But he could develop a shot that is similar to Datyuk which has finally developed to a 30G a season level. As for the rest they are different players. Filp is faster and plays a different game than datsyuk. He could in theory reach a similar level of potential but it will be via different qualities (though 100 points season seems quite a stretch).

I mentioned adding a pick with Filp for First overall not the opposite. I do not think Filps Value is 5th overall. I actually think its about 15th overall. But I do not think 5th overall would be out of the realm of possibility. Ie. Filp+3rd = 5th overall as per above.

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Old
05-29-2009, 03:45 PM
  #40
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Originally Posted by embracedbias View Post
In 5 years if you think that Filp will be better than Kane/Schenn/MPS, I think that you sorely mistaken. Yes he is having a good playoffs, but lets not forget that he is 25 and scored 40 points this season. Hell, Jiri Tlusty had better numbers that Filppula in the AHL and is 4 years younger. To think that Filp is worth the 5th overall is typical HF homerism. Forgive me if I don't put much stock in your statement that "anything more than that would be typical HF pick over valuation." Sounds a bit to O'Reilly-esk for my liking.
I commented a bit above on Filps numbers but its been debated far to many times on this board. I will only say Filp is a considerably better player than his numbers reveal this season. If you look closer at his number and analyze the context you will understand he did not play an offensive role this season. He has preformed consistently when placed in that position including this years playoffs.

My favorite line is this one which really shows your ignorance. "In 5 years if you think that Filp will be better than Kane/Schenn/MPS"

I think in 5 years Filp will definitely be better than 1 of them. Probably be better than two of them. 1 imo will be better than filp. Such is the nature of draft picks.

For reference in the 2004 draft...(5yrs ago) Andrew Ladd, Montoya, Wheeler were drafted 4-5-6. IMO the best player of the three is Wheeler. That being said none of the three are conclusively better players than Filp. Give Filp 5 more years of development and compare a 29 year old Filp to any of those 3, as stand ins for our hypothetical Kane, Schenn, MPS and its pretty clear he will be better or at least comparable. OFC there is a CHANCE the pick could be better as well.


What exactly was your argument again? That im a fool cause I underrated 5th overall picks because they will be better than Filp within 5 years? Sorry nope thats a fallacy.


An additional more neutral note looking at all the drafts in the last 10 years the only years that imo are better than Filp were 2003 (vanek, Zherdev, Michalek) 2006 (backstrom, kessel, Brassard)


Last edited by solo16: 05-29-2009 at 03:58 PM.
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Old
05-29-2009, 03:54 PM
  #41
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Stajan could be had for anything between the 40th-50th pick.

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05-29-2009, 09:18 PM
  #42
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Old
05-29-2009, 09:26 PM
  #43
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Originally Posted by solo16 View Post
I mentioned adding a pick with Filp for First overall not the opposite. I do not think Filps Value is 5th overall. I actually think its about 15th overall. But I do not think 5th overall would be out of the realm of possibility. Ie. Filp+3rd = 5th overall as per above.
A third round pick has almost no value when the deal involves the fifth overall pick.

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05-29-2009, 09:38 PM
  #44
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Originally Posted by solo16 View Post
I mentioned adding a pick with Filp for First overall not the opposite. I do not think Filps Value is 5th overall. I actually think its about 15th overall. But I do not think 5th overall would be out of the realm of possibility. Ie. Filp+3rd = 5th overall as per above.
The difference between 15th and 5th is not a 3rd round pick. Based on what the scouts and "experts" say, this draft has 7 top players and the talent drops off a bit (but is very solid, overall). I'm getting the impression that you don't know too much about this years draft. I don't blame you though... your team is still in the playoffs.

Quote:
Originally Posted by solo16 View Post
I think in 5 years Filp will definitely be better than 1 of them. Probably be better than two of them. 1 imo will be better than filp. Such is the nature of draft picks.

For reference in the 2004 draft...(5yrs ago) Andrew Ladd, Montoya, Wheeler were drafted 4-5-6. IMO the best player of the three is Wheeler. That being said none of the three are conclusively better players than Filp. Give Filp 5 more years of development and compare a 29 year old Filp to any of those 3, as stand ins for our hypothetical Kane, Schenn, MPS and its pretty clear he will be better or at least comparable. OFC there is a CHANCE the pick could be better as well.


What exactly was your argument again? That im a fool cause I underrated 5th overall picks because they will be better than Filp within 5 years? Sorry nope thats a fallacy.


An additional more neutral note looking at all the drafts in the last 10 years the only years that imo are better than Filp were 2003 (vanek, Zherdev, Michalek) 2006 (backstrom, kessel, Brassard)
This draft is supposed to be the best since 2003. It doesn't matter though, because its totally irrelevant. You are a fool because you underrate the 5th overall pick without actually knowing much about the actual prospects (which is a guess on my part). If any of these players score 40 points at age 25, they will be considered busts.

Make as many excuses for Filp's production as you want, GM's tend to pay attention to results.

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05-29-2009, 09:49 PM
  #45
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Originally Posted by sharks junkie View Post
From the Sharks, Milan Michalek may be available. $4.33m cap hit through the 2013-14 season.
could you see the Sharks moving Cheechoo for similar salaries?... I noticed this offseason 3 of your defensemen are set to become UFAs... do you think teh Sharks could be interested in a Cheechoo for Vandermeer swap with a conditional pick going the Sharks way... the conditions being based on Cheechoo's offensive production

as for Michalek... I could see many teams being interested in him

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05-29-2009, 09:51 PM
  #46
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Not a chance in hell that Andrew Ladd is available. Kris Versteeg might be, though.
what do you think the asking price for Versteeg would be?

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05-29-2009, 09:54 PM
  #47
solo16
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A third round pick has almost no value when the deal involves the fifth overall pick.
I agree. I only mentioned that to prove i didnt think Filp > 5th overall. Was a statement that I had clearly said he was = or less than.

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05-29-2009, 09:56 PM
  #48
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Not a chance in hell that Andrew Ladd is available. Kris Versteeg might be, though.


I'd like to see Versteeg with a Kings jersey on.

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Old
05-29-2009, 10:04 PM
  #49
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Originally Posted by PeterTheGreat View Post
Marek Svatos-Would want a 2nd rounder at least in this years draft.

Wojtek Wolski-A young potential starting goalie or young dman.
Sanguinetti from the Rangers? I'm not sure what else would have to be added.

Someone else mentioned Chad LaRose. I'd definitely be interested in him for the Rangers depending on the price.

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05-29-2009, 10:13 PM
  #50
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Yeah guys Im more looking for players who would actually be moved by their teams for market value. In other words , someone like a Kessel might be avaiable but not unless you want to overpay. Im talking more about readily available guys. Oh and also what teams need top 6 guys right now?
Ducks do lol, either a 2nd line centre of winger

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