HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > General Hockey Discussion > Trade Rumors and Free Agent Talk
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Trade Rumors and Free Agent Talk Trade rumors, transactions, and free agent talk. Rumors must contain the word RUMOR in post title. Proposals must contain the word PROPOSAL in post title.

Alex Semin (with conditions)

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
05-29-2009, 03:57 PM
  #26
Drake1588
UNATCO
 
Drake1588's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Northern Virginia
Posts: 27,863
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by CapsWolverinesUSA View Post
Our entire issue right now is that we want to make 1-2 defensive upgrades (including at least one significant one) and ...
I am not certain that is in McPhee's head at all, to be honest. I think he wants to replace the forwards lost to the KHL and let it ride on defense. I think he wants to develop Alzner and later Carlson.

Drake1588 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-29-2009, 04:01 PM
  #27
BadHammy*
MSL For Hart!
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Right Behind Me!
Posts: 10,444
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter Griffin View Post
Something to Vancouver based around Kevin Bieksa?
I think that's possible.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dirtbags View Post
to wash - little, valabik
to atlanta - semin, pothier
If the Thrashers will take Nylander and throw in their top pick, it could happen.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jfried View Post
Kubina + 2nd Round Pick + Tlusty
Straight up for Semin? Add in Ian White and it's a helluva deal, IMO.

BadHammy* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-29-2009, 04:02 PM
  #28
Joey Moss
Registered User
 
Joey Moss's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 23,122
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by CapsWolverinesUSA View Post
Edmonton fans were all over it in the other thread. In fact, the consensus was that the Caps took the short end of this deal. I didn't even come up with the Oil portion of the proposal. I merely copied it from an Oilers fan.

And I really don't know why you'd think that a point per game player who has 40-goal scoring ability is not worth that package. Of course, note that EDM also gives up #10 overall.
I would be fine doing that trade also. Would caps fans be fine with it though?

Joey Moss is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-29-2009, 04:07 PM
  #29
CapsWolverinesUSA
Registered User
 
CapsWolverinesUSA's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 5,134
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Drake1588 View Post
I am not certain that is in McPhee's head at all, to be honest. I think he wants to replace the forwards lost to the KHL and let it ride on defense. I think he wants to develop Alzner and later Carlson.
You may be right. Or you might not be. For now, I'm just chatting with some hockey fans about trades because (1) it's fun; and (2) I disagree with that position and think there's another way to go.

Personally, while GMGM may decide that the cap situation makes standing pat on defense the best way to go, I'm not going to assume that he also is of the belief that "developing Alzner and Carlson" necessarily means doing nothing on defense, or that our defense is good enough to carry this team deep into the playoffs. The kids' positions are secure. Pothier has 1 year left on his deal. Erskine has one year left on his deal. It's up to use if we bring back any of Morrisonn, Jurcina and Schultz. And I'm already assuming Alzner has a top-6 spot out of camp. My proposition accounts for all of this.

So, I ask you again, how does a 1-for-1 deal help this hockey team? I'm asking you to be our GM here, so no need to play McPhee mindreader anymore. Why is that your choice of moves? I simply don't get it, but I'm willing to listen.

CapsWolverinesUSA is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-29-2009, 04:08 PM
  #30
SERE 24
LGR
 
SERE 24's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: New York
Country: United States
Posts: 9,837
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by daethfromabove1979 View Post
umm edmonton would be absolutely crazy not to do that
I saw the #10 overall going to COL but somehow left it out of my post. I meant that as Cogliano, Eberle and the #10 overall, and the reasoning is that I don't believe Semin would match his Washington production in Edmonton.

You can call me crazy; I'm not an expert on either team so I don't mind it, but it just seems like whoever they pick up with the 10th overall + Cogs + Eberle is a lot of young talent and futures to give up for Semin who would be relied upon as a #1 gun in Edmonton. I might be selling Semin short (I've seen a lot of his play and appreciate his talent), but I'm just not sure he could produce the same way in Edmonton.

SERE 24 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-29-2009, 04:10 PM
  #31
Valic
BOOOOOOOOOO
 
Valic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Canada
Country: Canada
Posts: 8,715
vCash: 500
Sheldon Souray for Semin + Pothier.
Souray is the epitome of a rugged, experianced, top 2 defenceman.

Valic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-29-2009, 04:11 PM
  #32
Drake1588
UNATCO
 
Drake1588's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Northern Virginia
Posts: 27,863
vCash: 500
Quote:
So, I ask you again, how does a 1-for-1 deal help this hockey team? I'm asking you to be our GM here, so no need to play McPhee mindreader anymore. Why is that your choice of moves? I simply don't get it, but I'm willing to listen.
My choice of moves would probably not include those moves I expect McPhee to make. The Caps, in my opinion, need either a stud #1 defenseman, or two strong two-way defensemen just shy of that level. They could also use a scoring center, and a serviceable winger. Yet in order of preference, I would personally target defense.

If Pronger is available, I'd probably put together a competitive offer. Otherwise, God help me, I'd probably talk to Toronto about its defensemen for sale right now, and pick the one of Kaberle or Kubina likely to help the most. The team would then need to find a good player, perhaps buried, who can be had at an affordable rate. The likes of Komisarek and Beauchemin will go early and for great salary and term, but the next tier might hold a value for performance gem in unrestricted free agency.

I'd use Semin as the centerpiece to get either that #1 or #3 defenseman, then look at free agency if it's a #3. Dealing away Morrisonn would be the likely way to free up the salary cap space and roster spot.

Since Mironov, these aren't the sort of moves that have enticed McPhee, but I suppose anything is possible.

Drake1588 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-29-2009, 04:11 PM
  #33
AK
Registered User
 
AK's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Country: United States
Posts: 15,538
vCash: 500
Hejduk, Cogliano, AND Eberle for Alexander Semin?

No offense, but that's insane. It's ridiculous overpayment.

AK is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-29-2009, 04:14 PM
  #34
CapsWolverinesUSA
Registered User
 
CapsWolverinesUSA's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 5,134
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by OilGagner89 View Post
I would be fine doing that trade also. Would caps fans be fine with it though?
The key is the 3rd team. We don't really need the #10 pick or a prospect. Instead, we need a more reliable proven scorer. So, my thought was that we pocket Cogs and then turn around the pick and the kid to the Avs (+ Chris Clark's contract) for Hejduk. The Avs are rebuilding and it's a move that helps the process.

While the Avs fans agreed the total value was fair, I was then told that they really need a goalie more than another young forward prospect, so I proposed the Caps keep Eberle and send Michael Neuvirth to Colorado. That swap is mutually beneficial, IMO. Neuvirth is a kid who has led his teams to the Memorial Cup and now to the Calder Cup finals in the AHL. He also had a successful debut in the NHL this season. But he is no longer as valuable to us with Varlamov proving his NHL mettle. So, the Avs get another great draft pick in this draft and a young goalie of the future for Hejduk and 1 year of a so-so contract. The Caps turn a redundant goalie prospect into a top notch forward prospect. Works for everyone.

Some people thought that the Caps came up short here. They may, on paper. But you the cap relief we get ($2.5m) and the fact that we fill 2 vacant top-6 roster spots in exchange for 1 player opens up a lot of options for us.

CapsWolverinesUSA is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-29-2009, 04:15 PM
  #35
CapsWolverinesUSA
Registered User
 
CapsWolverinesUSA's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 5,134
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Letang58 View Post
Hejduk, Cogliano, AND Eberle for Alexander Semin?

No offense, but that's insane. It's ridiculous overpayment.
Except for the fact that every other person who has seen the deal says the Caps come up short, you are right on point.

Care to say which team it is that comes up short, if we get the "ridiculous overpayment"?

CapsWolverinesUSA is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-29-2009, 04:28 PM
  #36
Valic
BOOOOOOOOOO
 
Valic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Canada
Country: Canada
Posts: 8,715
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by CapsWolverinesUSA View Post
Except for the fact that every other person who has seen the deal says the Caps come up short, you are right on point.

Care to say which team it is that comes up short, if we get the "ridiculous overpayment"?
I think #10, Eberle, and Cogliano is alot to give up for Semin to be honest.

Valic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-29-2009, 04:30 PM
  #37
alphahelix
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 3,306
vCash: 500
That deal is raw man.

Edmonton wouldn't give up Cogs/Eberle/10th Overall for Semin alone.

I love Semin too, he's one of my favorite players going.. but thats just a bridge too far. I think Cogs/Eberle/40th overall is as far as they'd be willing to go. (or even more likely, Cogs/10th overall without Eberle. They want to keep him. If the caps would settle for Schremp, Brule or Potulny instead that would also make this deal go. Cogs/Brule/10th or Cogs/Schremp/10th for example.)

The caps winding up with Hejduk/Cogs/Eberle seems pretty heavy. Colorado might be willing to give up Hejduk for the 10th overall+ but I'm not sure if Neuvirth and a salary dump of Chris Clark is enough to grease those wheels.

alphahelix is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-29-2009, 04:31 PM
  #38
CapsWolverinesUSA
Registered User
 
CapsWolverinesUSA's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 5,134
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Valic View Post
I think #10, Eberle, and Cogliano is alot to give up for Semin to be honest.
It's definitely a lot. Semin is a tremendously valuable player. I wouldn't blame you for thinking twice about it as an Oilers fan. Ultimately, the price to acquire elite goal scoring talent is high. It shouldn't be painless.

All I know is that about 5 of your fellow fans have signed up for it (without any prior dissenters), so I think it's fair to say it's not a overly unfair deal. No doubt it has its risks for the Oil, but they're going to be hard pressed to come up with a guy of Semin's caliber in any other move any time soon.

CapsWolverinesUSA is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-29-2009, 04:33 PM
  #39
Joey Moss
Registered User
 
Joey Moss's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 23,122
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by CapsWolverinesUSA View Post
It's definitely a lot. Semin is a tremendously valuable player. I wouldn't blame you for thinking twice about it as an Oilers fan. Ultimately, the price to acquire elite goal scoring talent is high. It shouldn't be painless.

All I know is that about 5 of your fellow fans have signed up for it (without any prior dissenters), so I think it's fair to say it's not a overly unfair deal. No doubt it has its risks for the Oil, but they're going to be hard pressed to come up with a guy of Semin's caliber in any other move any time soon.
oh I thought it was Eberle and Cogliano for Semin? I dont know about this one with 10th now..

Joey Moss is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-29-2009, 04:37 PM
  #40
Jeffler
Shut Up Jeffler
 
Jeffler's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: North York
Country: Canada
Posts: 15,695
vCash: 500
Kubina + Stajan + Carolina and NYR's 2nds? Washington only saves 500k, but they get Stajan to fill in Fedorov's role, and Kubina to be the rugged top 4 D.

Also on the condition that Clark HAS to change his number to avoid idiots thinking Wendel came back

Jeffler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-29-2009, 04:42 PM
  #41
otto bond
Registered User
 
otto bond's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Country: Canada
Posts: 4,917
vCash: 500
Hamerlik+O'Byrne+1st for Semin an Pothier from Mtl

otto bond is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-29-2009, 04:55 PM
  #42
AK
Registered User
 
AK's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Country: United States
Posts: 15,538
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by CapsWolverinesUSA View Post
Except for the fact that every other person who has seen the deal says the Caps come up short, you are right on point.

Care to say which team it is that comes up short, if we get the "ridiculous overpayment"?
I think the Oilers do, personally.

They give up a good young second line center, top prospect, and lottery pick for a one dimensional winger who is coming off a terrible postseason and has well documented injury problems. He's a nice player, but not worth breaking up a young nucleus for.

It's about right for the Avs, but the Caps get too much and the Oilers too little.

Maybe someone like Steckel going back would balance it out.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CapsWolverinesUSA View Post
No doubt it has its risks for the Oil, but they're going to be hard pressed to come up with a guy of Semin's caliber in any other move any time soon.
The Oilers already have Hemsky, who's just a slight downgrade from Semin.

AK is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-29-2009, 05:11 PM
  #43
CapsWolverinesUSA
Registered User
 
CapsWolverinesUSA's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 5,134
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Letang58 View Post
The Oilers already have Hemsky, who's just a slight downgrade from Semin.
Hemsky doesn't score goals and definitely isn't as good as Semin. Hemsky + Semin is a nasty first line. That's WHY they do this deal. They've been searching for someone who can score goals on a line with Hemsky for years now.

CapsWolverinesUSA is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-29-2009, 05:20 PM
  #44
alphahelix
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 3,306
vCash: 500
I'd be interested in your response to my earlier post, CapsWolverine.

Ultimately I think a package like Cogliano/Eberle/10th Overall is stacked enough that it should be in the neighborhood to fetch any star that might be available this summer. Lecavalier maybe? Whoever happens to be hitting the market. It would be tough for a team to compile a significantly better package and be capable of swallowing the pill of giving up so much young talent without crippling their future.

alphahelix is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-29-2009, 05:28 PM
  #45
KesseltoLupul
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,788
vCash: 500
Pavel Kubina
Matt Stajan
Jiri Tlusty

for

Alex Semin
Chris Clark
Brian Pothier


D. Sedin - H. Sedin - Blake
Semin - Grabovski - Kulemin
Hagman - Bozak - Clark
Mayers - Mitchell - Hanson/May

Kaberle - Stralman
Schenn - White
Finger - Van Ryn

Toskala

KesseltoLupul is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-29-2009, 05:34 PM
  #46
CloutierForVezina
Registered User
 
CloutierForVezina's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Edmonton, Alberta
Country: Canada
Posts: 4,484
vCash: 500
I would not do this from edmonton's perspective. 10th/cogs/eberle is too big a price to pay for 1 year of semin at 4.6 million and then he'd be due for a big pay raise.

On top of this, I really doubt semin could replicate his success on the oilers. The reason he is so succesful on the capitals is they have so many weapons and he's probably the 3rd or 4th most dangerous capital behind ovechkin, green (and backstrom?). This means he can take advantage of some more favourable match ups when a teams best shut down men are hard at work against ovechkin every shift.

Edit: I could live with Gilbert/10th for Semin. I'm not sure if Washington prefers this trade in any way, but I know I'd rather trade from an area of strength (Vish, Sourray, Grebby, Gilbert) to add another legit top 6 forward.

CloutierForVezina is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-29-2009, 05:35 PM
  #47
CapsWolverinesUSA
Registered User
 
CapsWolverinesUSA's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 5,134
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by alphahelix View Post
I'd be interested in your response to my earlier post, CapsWolverine.

Ultimately I think a package like Cogliano/Eberle/10th Overall is stacked enough that it should be in the neighborhood to fetch any star that might be available this summer. Lecavalier maybe? Whoever happens to be hitting the market. It would be tough for a team to compile a significantly better package and be capable of swallowing the pill of giving up so much young talent without crippling their future.
Not to be trite, but I think we have to agree to disagree. The idea of Eberle + Cogs + #10 was proposed by an Oilers fan for Kovalchuk. Everyone shot it down. I proposed Semin in his place. I think that's the price of acquiring a 25 year old 1.2 pt/gm player who scores goals. If you were Lowe, I guess you'd rather hold your assets and see what happens.

I think the issue here is that no team likes to give up 3 valuable building block pieces, but there aren't many elite scorers on the market and teams always demand a king's ransom for them. Would Tampa do that deal for Vinny? I'd say no. If they would, Edmonton should hang up the phone with the Caps and go do it. Beyond Vinny, what comparable player is out there in the trade market? I'm not sure anyone is. And I don't need to tell you that there are...issues...with getting bigtime UFAs to head to Oil country.

The way I see it, EDM either needs an elite #1 scorer, or they don't. If they don't, they have no business trading so much young talent. But if they do, they can't keep trying to half-ass it with Eric Coles and various other hail mary attempts to generate goal scoring. If an opportunity presents itself to go grab a top 15 offensive talent who can score you 40 goals and make your incumbent best player (Mr. Hemsky) that much more productive, I think you can't start pinching pennies. But, that's just my 2 cents.

CapsWolverinesUSA is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-29-2009, 05:42 PM
  #48
JawandaPuck
Moderator
Lost Art of Dynasty
 
JawandaPuck's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Vancouver BC
Country: Canada
Posts: 4,310
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by daethfromabove1979 View Post
umm edmonton would be absolutely crazy not to do that
And WAS would be crazy to do it.

Semin, despite his stick fouls, is absolutely amazing and someone WAS can and will win with in the POs. Yes, WAS is missing second line depth, but that can be filled with existing, youth.

The real problem is mobility and puck movement on the backend and a proper complement for Green on the PP. And that can't be fixed with existing blueliner prospects since they usually take longer.

So there is a dilemma, how to add mobile blueliner(s) without going over the cap. Yes, the only answer is removing dead weight contracts.

I believe GMGM will find a very creative way to ship out Nylander this off season allowing WAS to afford experienced blueliner(s). It won't involve shipping out Semin with him.

JawandaPuck is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-29-2009, 05:45 PM
  #49
CloutierForVezina
Registered User
 
CloutierForVezina's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Edmonton, Alberta
Country: Canada
Posts: 4,484
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by CapsWolverinesUSA View Post
With Clark off the books in 1 year, you simply devote some of that money to Semin and you're covered. What's his rate on the RFA market? $6m? That means $1.4 of Clark's $2.6m salary go to Semin's new deal, and the other $1.2 goes into the salary cap pool.
First of all, we're taking clark back now too? No thanks. Secondly, he has 2 years left on his deal not 1.

It's not really that simple. Edmonton doesn't have THAT much cap space kicking around that they could afford to take a salary dump + over pay for semin.

Right now we're at 43 million commited. Giving away cogs (1.3 mill) and taking back clark (2.6 mill) and semin (4.6 mill) puts us at ~49 million. That leaves 7 million to sign a legit starting goalie, re-sign grebby and smid, and resign a top 6 forward to replace kotalik.

Just my opinion, but I would not touch this as Edmonton.

CloutierForVezina is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-29-2009, 05:47 PM
  #50
CapsWolverinesUSA
Registered User
 
CapsWolverinesUSA's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 5,134
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffleafsfan91 View Post
Pavel Kubina
Matt Stajan
Jiri Tlusty

for

Alex Semin
Chris Clark
Brian Pothier
It's not a terrible proposal, and I think the Caps could be very interested in Kubina, but you're not going to get Semin for him. The Bieksa trade brings us a better fitting defensemen and more cap space. Plus, Tlusty does nothing for us, and I don't think Stajan is good enough to be our #2 center.

The deal being discussed around her a week or two ago was a package of younger players and picks. Something along the lines of Kubina for the RFA rights to Shaone Morrisonn, Eric Fehr, WAS 2009 1st rounder, and a good prospect (1 notch below Alzner/Carlson). Oh, and Toronto eating a bit of salary for 1 year in the form of Pothier so the Caps can afford Kubina.

That deal gives Toronto two younger players, a good prospect, and a #1 pick for Kubina. I'm not sure they're going to get much more than that from anyone else, though some Leafs fans disagree I guess.

CapsWolverinesUSA is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:14 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.