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The Business of Hockey Discuss the financial and business aspects of the NHL. Topics may include the CBA, work stoppages, broadcast contracts, franchise sales, and NHL revenues.

Cup Winners vs Payroll Rank

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Old
10-04-2004, 11:20 PM
  #51
thinkwild
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Its actually written right into the CBA. An RFA cannot use as a comparable a UFA contract. Only other RFA contracts. In theory, you'd figure the highest RFA contract Iginla should get would be less than Guerins or Holiks first UFA contract. Other than the RFAs who started on the previous CBA, this is looking like where its heading. Which should be a great advantage to small markets.

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10-04-2004, 11:22 PM
  #52
SuperUnknown
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Quote:
Originally Posted by I in the Eye
I see your point (it's been one of the basis for my arguments)... And I think I'm starting to see Tom's and Thinkwild's... I haven't thought through and decided for myself yet which answer really works for me...

IMO, this is one of the most important questions... Do UFA prices affect RFAs prices? The answer is not a simple yes or no, I think...

If the dude who started this thread (or someone else who knows stats) could come up with some data to help come to an answer... that would be very insightful, IMO...
UFA prices affect all player costs? Why? They drive up the average salary figure. Which drives up the salary of the "lower" paid players. As well, as the average salary figure goes up, more players are entitled to the automatic 10% raise and earlier UFA age. Which of course drive up player salaries. There are other reasons, but I'm tired and need some sleep. Later guys.

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Old
10-04-2004, 11:31 PM
  #53
thinkwild
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If the ALS goes from $1.3mil to $1.8mil, the guy making $750k to $1.2mil still get their 10% raises. A few guys making about $1.8mil now get 10% too instead of presumably no raise at all. How many players can you think of who make the famous $1.8mil?

That a dozen $1.6mil players get a 10% raise instead of no raise can hardly be a major problem of the CBA

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Old
10-05-2004, 12:33 AM
  #54
I in the Eye
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom_Benjamin
Aside from that the owners and players agreed to explicitly exclude UFAs from the arbitration process which is supposed to be the court of last resort for the player. .

Why did they decide to do that?

Tom
So that UFA salary decisions wouldn't explicitly affect RFA salary decisions... But does it work in reality? Regardless of what is on paper, is the impact of UFA decisions being completely excluded in RFA decisions?

I see your's and Thinkwild's point... I see Me2's (his POV is/was/is/was my natural position)...

I think I accomplished my goal... I know enough about this stuff to be dangerous and engage in interesting dinner conversation with guests...

Take care guys

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Old
10-05-2004, 05:57 AM
  #55
SuperUnknown
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thinkwild
If the ALS goes from $1.3mil to $1.8mil, the guy making $750k to $1.2mil still get their 10% raises. A few guys making about $1.8mil now get 10% too instead of presumably no raise at all. How many players can you think of who make the famous $1.8mil?

That a dozen $1.6mil players get a 10% raise instead of no raise can hardly be a major problem of the CBA
The problem is that it sets an inflationnary trend. With as many as 60-70% of the players making less than the ALS, that means the ALS is bound to increase year after year since those players will be entitled to 10% raises after 10% raises. In other words, slowly the ALS will get to $2.0mil and then higher. The ALS increasing means that the team payrolls increase again. This also means that for the majority of the NHL players, the UFA age is 28.

When the ALS was $1.3mil, a guy earning $2.0mil was making 150% of the ALS. Now, the same player needs to earn $2.7mil to be at 150% of the ALS. Clearly, better than average players will want more than the ALS, and proportionately this means more dollars every time the ALS increases.

Also, the point is that while the little guys salaries may still be under $1.3mil, it is still higher than what it was when the ALS was $1.3mil, because they want the same percentage under the ALS as they used to have. 50% of the ALS at $1.3mil was $650k. Now 50% of the ALS is $900k. How many non 4th liners earn less than $750k today? Not many. And so as this slowly rises, the ALS rises again, increasing the total payrolls, etc. It is inflationnary as a system.

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Old
10-05-2004, 08:23 AM
  #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by me2
Supply and demand. You said it yourself in the below point. Its an auction. What happens when supply runs short: it drives up prices. You yourself said it below. When the rich teams start sucking up all of the available UFA talent it creates vacuums.
What happens when demand runs short? You think that there is an infinite demand for $10M players?

You've only thought about half the equation. You said yourself, supply and demand. But you just completely ignored DEMAND.

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