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Hemsky for the Kostitsyns

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Old
05-31-2009, 02:02 PM
  #76
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Originally Posted by Rpro View Post
Funny how it's mainly just hab fans that seem to think that. I guess they're the only ones with 'decent hockey knowledge' right?
Do you think Gainey would trade two Kosts for just Hemsky? I don't think he would. And that's the end of that. Say whatever you want, but Montreal is not going to make this trade like people here are saying. Gainey would be an idiot to trade the Kosts when their value is at its lowest.

Everybody keeps talking about Andrei's attitude problems, but is there any concrete proof of this? EVIDENCE?! All I see is a bunch of hearsay. Like above: his "attitude in general?" Like what? He doesn't sock teammates in the head. He doesn't get DUIs or commit manslaughter. He doesn't ***** about his coach. What did he do wrong exactly? EXPLAIN IT AND MAKE IT ****ING PLAUSIBLE. Yeah, you can't. You can point to some questionable on-ice things at best, but I guess that means Lucic, Phaneuf, Perry, Kronwall, etc. all have attitude problems. It's nice that you feel you can make stuff up and pass it off as facts. Well, I'm calling all of you people out. Whatever you say, back it up.

Andrei and Sergei are not superstars, but the Habs are more than happy to keep them. They are fine players and good teammates who has had their names completely tarnished by the media. Hell, I have a lawyer friend who insists the Kostitsyn brothers would have a case against the media if they wanted to sue them. There is no evidence to support the claim that the Kostitsyns are bad people, bad teammates, etc. If they're bad teammates, what does that say for even the good guys in the league who have got into fights with teammates? What does it say about Craig Rivet?

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05-31-2009, 02:08 PM
  #77
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Originally Posted by MonacoBlue View Post
Do you think Gainey would trade two Kosts for just Hemsky? I don't think he would. And that's the end of that. Say whatever you want, but Montreal is not going to make this trade like people here are saying. Gainey would be an idiot to trade the Kosts when their value is at its lowest.
You damn right he'd trade them both for Hemsky. It's Tambellini that wouldn't make that trade.

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05-31-2009, 02:15 PM
  #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Komi View Post
You sound like Hemsky is a Thornton, Lecavalier type of player, which he is not at all.

Both Kost is overpayment, just ask anybody wearing bleu et rouge goggles
Corrected.

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05-31-2009, 02:18 PM
  #79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MonacoBlue View Post
Do you think Gainey would trade two Kosts for just Hemsky? I don't think he would. And that's the end of that. Say whatever you want, but Montreal is not going to make this trade like people here are saying. Gainey would be an idiot to trade the Kosts when their value is at its lowest.

Everybody keeps talking about Andrei's attitude problems, but is there any concrete proof of this? EVIDENCE?! All I see is a bunch of hearsay. Like above: his "attitude in general?" Like what? He doesn't sock teammates in the head. He doesn't get DUIs or commit manslaughter. He doesn't ***** about his coach. What did he do wrong exactly? EXPLAIN IT AND MAKE IT ****ING PLAUSIBLE. Yeah, you can't. You can point to some questionable on-ice things at best, but I guess that means Lucic, Phaneuf, Perry, Kronwall, etc. all have attitude problems. It's nice that you feel you can make stuff up and pass it off as facts. Well, I'm calling all of you people out. Whatever you say, back it up.

Andrei and Sergei are not superstars, but the Habs are more than happy to keep them. They are fine players and good teammates who has had their names completely tarnished by the media. Hell, I have a lawyer friend who insists the Kostitsyn brothers would have a case against the media if they wanted to sue them. There is no evidence to support the claim that the Kostitsyns are bad people, bad teammates, etc. If they're bad teammates, what does that say for even the good guys in the league who have got into fights with teammates? What does it say about Craig Rivet?
When I say attitude problems, I'm mostly implying that he lacks heart.

And I think Perry was a bad example. That guy has major attitude problems. Trust me, I'm a Knights fan who watched him for years, and even met him a couple of times. He's very rude.

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05-31-2009, 02:31 PM
  #80
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Originally Posted by Rpro View Post
You damn right he'd trade them both for Hemsky. It's Tambellini that wouldn't make that trade.
Gainey wouldn't even deal Higgins in a package for Hossa. He doesn't believe in making rash moves, and he sure as hell wouldn't give up on the Kostitsyns like that.

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05-31-2009, 02:32 PM
  #81
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Originally Posted by Cleatus View Post
When I say attitude problems, I'm mostly implying that he lacks heart.
How exactly does he lack heart? He's a quiet, shy kid who doesn't speak English very well. He's a young player going through some growing pains, but really, I have never heard of anybody connected with the Habs questioning his heart. IMO his issues are more with getting comfortable in the NHL and confidence, not heart or attitude.


That said as a fan of both teams, I can see why neither team would do the above trade. While neither Kost is a good as Hemsky, collectively they hold more value to the Habs. In addition, the AKost has more potential goal scoring wise, and the Habs need snipers right now, more than playmakers. That said, there is a solid basis, that in any deal, the team who gets the best player wins, so I can understand why Oiler fans would be hesistant if such a deal went down.

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05-31-2009, 02:36 PM
  #82
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Originally Posted by Cleatus View Post
When I say attitude problems, I'm mostly implying that he lacks heart.

And I think Perry was a bad example. That guy has major attitude problems. Trust me, I'm a Knights fan who watched him for years, and even met him a couple of times. He's very rude.
But Perry is still a good player and he has no problems with Ducks management. People blow this attitude thing out of proportion.

And prove that Andri lacks heart. I bet you can't. Andrei is 24, and there is little evidence to show he truly lacks heart. What does he do exactly? A player not playing up to his potential does not necessarily lack heart, just consistency and confidence. We're not talking about a veteran who has consistently failed to show up here.

Andrei is a young guy who had a bad sophomore season. SO ****ING WHAT. No, he doesn't take the bull by the horns. He's not like Mike Richards, but not everybody plays like that. And that doesn't mean they lack "heart." I'm sick of hearing this crap when it really doesn't even apply to the player. Apparently, any European that has a bad year lacks heart. Hell, I remember people saying Kovalchuk and Datsyuk lacked heart. Well, look where they are now. People need to use their ****ing brains for once instead of just categorically dismissing players for no good reason with stupid phrases like "he lacks heart." It's the stupidest ****ing phrase in the book. Sorry, but it is.

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05-31-2009, 02:38 PM
  #83
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Originally Posted by MonacoBlue View Post
It's the stupidest ****ing phrase in the book. Sorry, but it is.
This post lacks class

Now that's the most stupid phrase in the book

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05-31-2009, 02:46 PM
  #84
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Originally Posted by Psycho Papa Joe View Post
This post lacks class

Now that's the most stupid phrase in the book
It just pisses me off. That phrase is such a cheap copout, but it's hard to defend against and the people who use it can spin it so many ways. Like I said, I remember people saying Datsyuk wasn't a winner and that he was a playoff choker. Especially after the whole ordeal about threatening to go to Russia when he was negotiating a new contract. Well, I didn't believe Datsyuk lacked heart, and the people who did sure look silly now. Same thing with Kovalchuk too. A "selfish" guy who can't play defense and who doesn't pass to his linemates. Kovy is the captain of the Thrashers now. Well, what do you know? People who use that phrase often end up looking foolish.

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05-31-2009, 02:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MonacoBlue View Post
But Perry is still a good player and he has no problems with Ducks management. People blow this attitude thing out of proportion.

And prove that Andri lacks heart. I bet you can't. Andrei is 24, and there is little evidence to show he truly lacks heart. What does he do exactly? A player not playing up to his potential does not necessarily lack heart, just consistency and confidence. We're not talking about a veteran who has consistently failed to show up here.

Andrei is a young guy who had a bad sophomore season. SO ****ING WHAT. No, he doesn't take the bull by the horns. He's not like Mike Richards, but not everybody plays like that. And that doesn't mean they lack "heart." I'm sick of hearing this crap when it really doesn't even apply to the player. Apparently, any European that has a bad year lacks heart. Hell, I remember people saying Kovalchuk and Datsyuk lacked heart. Well, look where they are now. People need to use their ****ing brains for once instead of just categorically dismissing players for no good reason with stupid phrases like "he lacks heart." It's the stupidest ****ing phrase in the book. Sorry, but it is.
Kovalchuk lacks heart. Andrei Kostitsyn is a huge floater. Go on your Habs board, and most fans will agree. The Habs in whole lack heart, and that's why they were so terrible last year.

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05-31-2009, 02:58 PM
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Originally Posted by Cleatus View Post
Kovalchuk lacks heart. Andrei Kostitsyn is a huge floater. Go on your Habs board, and most fans will agree. The Habs in whole lack heart, and that's why they were so terrible last year.
And the Habs were first in the East the year before. Andrei is not a floater at all. Wow, and the worst thing is you believe Kovalchuk lacks heart. I don't have time for this. I'm just going to say you're wrong and let somebody else take over here.

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05-31-2009, 02:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MonacoBlue View Post
It just pisses me off. That phrase is such a cheap copout, but it's hard to defend against and the people who use it can spin it so many ways. Like I said, I remember people saying Datsyuk wasn't a winner and that he was a playoff choker. Especially after the whole ordeal about threatening to go to Russia when he was negotiating a new contract. Well, I didn't believe Datsyuk lacked heart, and the people who did sure look silly now. Same thing with Kovalchuk too. A "selfish" guy who can't play defense and who doesn't pass to his linemates. Kovy is the captain of the Thrashers now. Well, what do you know? People who use that phrase often end up looking foolish.
Kovalchuk was made captain for two reasons.

1) To make him stay.
2) To increase his trade value.

And Datsyuk isn't doing too well in this year's playoffs.

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05-31-2009, 03:00 PM
  #88
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Originally Posted by MonacoBlue View Post
And the Habs were first in the East the year before. Andrei is not a floater at all. Wow, and the worst thing is you believe Kovalchuk lacks heart. I don't have time for this. I'm just going to say you're wrong and let somebody else take over here.
Good. Hopefully a more knowledgeable Montreal fan takes over who doesn't wear the bleu et rouge goggles.

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05-31-2009, 03:01 PM
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wtf how can you say Kovalchuk has no heart? The kosti bros don't, but Kovalchuk does.

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05-31-2009, 03:02 PM
  #90
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Originally Posted by Cleatus View Post
Good. Hopefully a more knowledgable Montreal fan takes over who doesn't wear the bleu et rouge goggles.
I'm not the one who is misguided here. You are just one of "those guys" whose opinion of a player can't be changed, and I'm not going to bother. Make no mistake, you're wrong here.

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05-31-2009, 03:05 PM
  #91
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Originally Posted by MonacoBlue View Post
I'm not the one who is misguided here. You are just one of "those guys" whose opinion of a player can't be changed, and I'm not going to bother. Make no mistake, you're wrong here.
Yup, that's why most people on the Habs forum would agree that he lacks heart and a hard work ethic.

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05-31-2009, 03:07 PM
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Originally Posted by Yumphod View Post
wtf how can you say Kovalchuk has no heart? The kosti bros don't, but Kovalchuk does.
He can score goals, but that's all he does. He's terrible defensively, he's a selfish player, and he hasn't brought Atlanta anywhere. If Atlanta doesn't trade him, he's going to walk.

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05-31-2009, 03:07 PM
  #93
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Originally Posted by Cleatus View Post
Kovalchuk was made captain for two reasons.

1) To make him stay.
2) To increase his trade value.

And Datsyuk isn't doing too well in this year's playoffs.
Datsyuk is injured. He has been since the playoffs started. Hell, he is so hurt he can't even play when his team clearly would let him if it was at all possible. Plus, Datsyuk is doing fine if you don't look at just the scoresheet. Do you watch the games objectively or just see what you want to see? Datsyuk was trying in every series and contributing in any way possible even if he couldn't get on the scoresheet.

As for Kovalchuk, I don't see how making him the captain increases his trade value. GMs are not dumb enough to look at Kovy and say "OMG he's the captain. I'll trade more for him." Whatever his value was, it's the same after. Sure, it says to other GMs that Waddell will take nothing short of massive overpayment to trade Kovy, but I'm sure GMs already knew that. As for convincing him to say, if Kovy "lacked heart," why would he care if he's the captain or not? Clearly, he would looking for dollars and a team that would help him rack up more awards. Why would a guy who lacks heart want to be a captain of a loser team? How is that good for himself? It's not, unless he is a actually a good guy and a good leader who wants to help turn the Thrashers around.

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05-31-2009, 03:10 PM
  #94
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Originally Posted by Cleatus View Post
Yup, that's why most people on the Habs forum would agree that he lacks heart and a hard work ethic.
Most people? Well, that's certainly not true. Some of them believe it, but they are misguided. Just an FYI but all the good Habs posters have left HF and gone elsewhere. Now, it's just a bunch of RDS.ca rejects who want nothing but to see a "Quebecer" Habs team. The good posters have all but given on the forum. Don't expect good opinions from that board.

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05-31-2009, 03:13 PM
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Originally Posted by MonacoBlue View Post
Datsyuk is injured. He has been since the playoffs started. Hell, he is so hurt he can't even play when his team clearly would let him if it was at all possible. Plus, Datsyuk is doing fine if you don't look at just the scoresheet. Do you watch the games objectively or just see what you want to see? Datsyuk was trying in every series and contributing in any way possible even if he couldn't get on the scoresheet.

As for Kovalchuk, I don't see how making him the captain increases his trade value. GMs are not dumb enough to look at Kovy and say "OMG he's the captain. I'll trade more for him." Whatever his value was, it's the same after. Sure, it says to other GMs that Waddell will take nothing short of massive overpayment to trade Kovy, but I'm sure GMs already knew that. As for convincing him to say, if Kovy "lacked heart," why would he care if he's the captain or not? Clearly, he would looking for dollars and a team that would help him rack up more awards. Why would a guy who lacks heart want to be a captain of a loser team? How is that good for himself? It's not, unless he is a actually a good guy and a good leader who wants to help turn the Thrashers around.
Datsyuk has been good defensively, but he needs to be alot better on offense. Also, do you have proof that he's been playing injured throughout the playoffs? Even so, lots of players use injuries/sicknesses as excuses when they have sub-par playoffs.

Making Kovalchuk captain would make him feel more important, and that team relaly has no one else. Mark my words, unless Atlanta offers him league max, he's leaving. And again, he hasn't brought the Thrashers anywhere in his tenure, even when the team was pretty good.

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05-31-2009, 03:17 PM
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The Habs won't trade the Kostitsyns for Hemsky

and Cleatus you can just write that you don't like russian players

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05-31-2009, 03:22 PM
  #97
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The Oilers aren't in a position to take risks, we want to win NOW.
so do we

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05-31-2009, 03:23 PM
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Originally Posted by Cleatus View Post
Kovalchuk was made captain for two reasons.

1) To make him stay.
2) To increase his trade value.

And Datsyuk isn't doing too well in this year's playoffs.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yumphod View Post
wtf how can you say Kovalchuk has no heart? The kosti bros don't, but Kovalchuk does.
Agreed. I think Kovalchuk is becoming a well rounded player(and I dont mean fat). He actually took the initiative to get Malkin and Ovechkin talking so they could prepare for the Olympics. Off topic here but that Ovechkin-Malkin-Kovalchuk line is going to be the scariest line in years

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05-31-2009, 03:26 PM
  #99
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Originally Posted by Cleatus View Post
Datsyuk has been good defensively, but he needs to be alot better on offense. Also, do you have proof that he's been playing injured throughout the playoffs? Even so, lots of players use injuries/sicknesses as excuses when they have sub-par playoffs.

Making Kovalchuk captain would make him feel more important, and that team relaly has no one else. Mark my words, unless Atlanta offers him league max, he's leaving. And again, he hasn't brought the Thrashers anywhere in his tenure, even when the team was pretty good.
Datsyuk is trying offensively. He just isn't cashing in. Do you really believe that means he lacks heart? No, all it means is that he isn't playing at 100% ergo he won't have his regular scoring ability.

As for using injury as an excuse, the point is that Datsyuk is too injured right now to even play. That's how serious it is. Players usually play through injuries, but Detroit won't even let him play. It's a serious injury.

As for Kovy, again, why would Kovy care about being the captain of the Thrashers? How does that help him, telling him he's the best player on a bad team? Like he doesn't know that already! And it's completely unfair to blame Kovy for the Thrashers not being a good team. Even when you say they were "good," they had major holes and it was obvious to anyone with a brain. When the Thrash made the playoffs, Scott Melanby was their fourth leading scorer with 36 points. Tkachuk was their best center, and he's not even a true center. They had Eric Belanger as their 2nd line center. Their best defensman was probably Niclas Havelid. The depth wasn't good, and Lehtonen was younger and less experienced. How is that a good team? And this is the best team Kovy had to work with. It's unfair to blame him for the Thrashers being bad.

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05-31-2009, 07:39 PM
  #100
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.............

Edit: Andrei spent time in the AHL because there was no room for him and they wanted him to work on his defensive play. He was also pretty rough because belarus is not a force and therefore the coaches/infrastructures are not as goos as big name countries. He needed polish AND WAS VERY SICK. He was ready at least a full season before he was a regular. The fact he started his nhl career later has zero impact on who will be the better let's say 2 years from now. Kosty is gonna be the guy in the proposal threads a lot more than Hemsky. A Kosty type player is harder to find and more useful.
Exactly. Kostitsyn got time to adjust to playing against grown men in the AHL, Hemsky went straight to the NHL. So there is a difference. A. Kost's first PRO season was in the AHL, Hemsky's was in the NHL.

I think you are overrating him WAY too much. Why is he harder to find?

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