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This Leblanc Obsession

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Old
06-06-2009, 10:00 AM
  #26
Whitesnake
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Originally Posted by ACCIDENT View Post
How many of those guys are legitimate number 1 centers please? Maxwell is the only one, and thats a long shot, we have no legitimate future first line center, thats what we need. Our defense is stacked up, our goaltending with price and Halak one of which has to develop into a starting goaltender with talent. Its on the forward ranks that should be first and foremost, along with maybe tossing in a goaltender or a another defenseman
You do realize that it's not my take but it was Timmins take in 2007 and kind of still believed in it last year 'cause he didn't address it as well. It's not my take since 2006 when I wanted Berglund (more than Giroux by the way...). And when I wanted Grachev, Anisimov, Gustafsson.....

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06-06-2009, 10:04 AM
  #27
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Like I said in the draft thread, I seriously hope Timmins and crew aren't pressured into pleasing the fans on draft day.

If they feel he's the BPA at our pick, and they really want him than I hope they select him. But if they like Holland or Kreider (examples) better at our pick, I hope they do what they feel is right for them.

You select for your team, not for your fans.

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06-06-2009, 10:40 AM
  #28
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It seems like if we pick a francophone, half the people are going to complain that we picked him only because he's a francophone, and if we don't pick a francophone, the other half will complain we should have picked a francophone. There's no way the Canadiens can please everybody. Both opinions are wrong, because both opinions are based only on origins.

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06-06-2009, 10:58 AM
  #29
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Originally Posted by lhf1 View Post
Both opinions are wrong, because both opinions are based only on origins.
Not true. People who want more francos (and I'm in that group despite not having solely francos on my wishlist) are not basing their opinions (or shouldn't) SOLELY on origins. The player needs to be great. Needs to be what we need. To be french though 'cause of how proud you would be, 'cause what it means to you, can and should be a criteria. I keep coming back to this, (and even though my pick would have been Grachev...), we decided also to go for Kristo instead of Paquette, a guy who could fill the need we have to become like a Chris Neil, a tough guy able to play hockey but is not necessarily in the heavyweights category. Like a Kostopoulos who might actually win a fight from time to time. So this kid wanted badly to be drafted by the Habs. And when he wasn't, his response was, well I will show them that they make a mistake. That kid would have bring a drive. His love for the Habs would have make him work harder, would have make him improve his skating big time, would have conditioned him in becoming a better player so he'd be able to play for the team of his dreams. And to me if he succeeds, not only he reaches his goal, but chances are he'd be able to help my team so again, if my team is your team and everybody else that posts here, why the hell would people don't want to bring a Quebecer like him if it means that we would become a better team? If I can give you examples like that that might might show that chances are we'd become better, why wouldn't we go for those types of guys? Surely, there are not only Q guys that thinks like that. A guy like Higgins thought so as well, a guy like Subban still do. But chances are, the more you are breathing and living around the team you loved watching, the more you'd become a fan of it and want to play badly for it.

Going back to the criterias, it has to be considered. Like being American is a criteria 'cause of how the US are developing their guys, like being a goalie from Quebec used to be a criteria 'cause of how the Q goalies were seen, like being a Swede is a criteria for Detroit, like being a tough canadian kid is a criteria 'cause of how rough the OHL and WHL leagues are and should make you better to play in the NHL.......People just don't realize that to be able to know who the BPA is, you need to have criterias that define what is, for you, a BPA. I mean BPA is obviously not based on points 'cause there are too many factors that can't be determined. What makes Kreider a better BPA than Leblanc? 'Cause he's big and fast? But didn't Leblanc play against a tougher opposition and still did great, can it then make him the BPA.....

Strangely, people keep saying that they don't mind the origin, that origins cannot play a role but when it comes to french and quebecers, it keeps playing a role 'cause some scouts did say that this new rule makes the players softer. 'Cause some posters keep saying that choosing a french player will only happen to please the crowd and not 'cause he could be a good player.

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Old
06-06-2009, 11:00 AM
  #30
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Originally Posted by ReVeuF View Post
All i know is Leblanc was drafted 1st overall in the Quebec junior league, he might be good
So you really know nothing about him because he was drafted 18th overall...not 1st Granted, he would have been a top 3 pick if he would have said he was going to play in the Q...

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06-06-2009, 11:17 AM
  #31
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Do you have any proof that these 4 people picked Leblanc based purely on the fact that he's french? Or is this an assumption that these 4 people are ignorant?

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06-06-2009, 11:20 AM
  #32
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I really wonder what the tone of this thread would be like if the 4 mock drafts (originally in question, but discarded quickly in discussion) all had the Habs picking someone like Holland instead of Leblanc and was titled "This Holland Obsession."

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Old
06-06-2009, 11:20 AM
  #33
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I would like to see these mock drafts by the way. I had Montreal picking Holland at 18 and Calgary picking Leblanc at 20.

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Old
06-06-2009, 11:20 AM
  #34
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Originally Posted by Markov79fan View Post
no surprised here i never saw you praised a french canadian players
Cool, Guess you've ignored every positive post I've ever made about Latendresse and Lapierre.

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Old
06-06-2009, 11:22 AM
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Whitesnake View Post
I really don't understand why people keep talking about the need for centerman. Mr. Timmins who most people all worship and adore said in 2007 that we didn't need centermen 'cause we had those great centermen coming in Chipchura, Lapierre, Aubin, Maxwell and White. As far as I'm concerned, 4 out of those 5 guys are still in play for a position at center which Timmins feels it has been answered. And clearly he believes it 'cause in 2008, he still didn't answer for that even though the great Johnson plays at center.

But please answer that one for me. Based on exactly what you said....tell me how Kristo was the BPA when I and you believe that despite what Timmins is saying, we have a glaring need for centermen with size and skills, and Grachev was still available? How was Quailer the BPA when Stefanovitch was still available and he can play center? How was Missiaen the BPA when James Wright was available (not saying Wright will end up the offensive centerman I thought he would but still....he had some nice potential at the time).

So I can't wait to see how really we are in need of centermen in our prospect pool in this upcoming draft. Though I believe he will have 1 or 2 of those guys, 'cause let's hope he doesn't believe himself anymore.
I can't answer for Timmins. I'm stating my own opinion, Leblanc is not the BPA for our pick nor will he be the BCA for our pick. Whether or not Timmins agrees with me remains to be seen.

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Old
06-06-2009, 11:46 AM
  #36
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Originally Posted by WeThreeKings View Post
Cool, Guess you've ignored every positive post I've ever made about Latendresse and Lapierre.
i guess propably miss those post

and in the wtf category, positive post on latendresse on hf ??? this cant be true

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06-06-2009, 11:53 AM
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Markov79fan View Post
i guess propably miss those post

and in the wtf category, positive post on latendresse on hf ??? this cant be true
lmao, yeah, I think with the proper coaching he can be an effective forward in the NHL. Someone just needs to give him tough love with his ice-time. If you don't bull your way to the net and don't stand in front of it, then you miss your next shift. If you don't do it for an entire game, you miss the next game.

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Old
06-06-2009, 12:03 PM
  #38
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Originally Posted by not quite yoda View Post
i don t think that we can t pick him because he is french.

i think the reason he is so commonly associated to us is because he s french.

4 for 4 in mock drafts. you telling me the same players were left over after 17 in all 4 mocks?
It's not because he is french it's because he is from Quebec, the province where most of those who want Leblanc were born and still live today. It's about having to pick the local kid, i dont see any problem with people wanting to draft leblanc because of those reasons. Personnaly i'd like him, but i wont mind any pick that Timmins will do, i'm not a scout and i saw only one game from Leblanc, 1 week ago.

How much do you know about this draft to say that you dont want to draft Leblanc?

Seriously i dont get your point, you are using mock draft as an argument not to pick Leblanc because he is too comonly associated with the Habs? Or it is because he's french? Where are you going with this?

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06-06-2009, 12:19 PM
  #39
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The interesting thing about Leblanc is that, imo at least, he's the first Quebecer/francophone in a number of years who'll potentially be in our pick range whose game doesn't have any noticeable red flags.

The 2002 draft had PM Bouchard, and he polarized the board a bit because despite his obvious offensive strengths, he was/is a tiny little guy without the great skating ability you hope to see in pint sized players (like Kariya's, for example), especially in the old NHL.

The 2003 had Bernier, but he had skating and conditioning concerns.

The 2004 draft didn't really have anyone, though I guess you could say Picard who went significantly earlier than expected.

The 2005 draft had Pouliot, but more eyes were on Brule. Pouliot had tools, but he came out of nowhere and still didn't exactly dominate.

The 2006 draft had Giroux who was another small, slight guy without great skating ability (and evidently poor foot speed). It looks like he'll pay off for Philly, but the concerns were there.

The 2007 draft had Esposito and Perron. Esposito obviously regressed from the previous year, or rather was exposed, despite his obvious tools, raising concerns. Perron wasn't seen as being the best skater and seemed to rely on low speed flashy moves/dangles that many didn't think would translate to the NHL.

The 2008 draft had Deschamps, who it seems likely we would have drafted if we kept our pick. I don't think many people minded, though, because while he was/is a pretty vanilla player (jack of all trades, master of none), he didn't have many drawbacks.

While Leblanc isn't the biggest guy, he certainly doesn't have any size issues. He's reportedly a very good skater. He reportedly has good hands, scoring ability, and vision/playmaking ability. He reportedly has a very strong work ethic and plays a determined/tenacious/competitive game, not shying away from the rough stuff or high traffic areas. There don't seem to be any locker room issues. He seems to have a good head on his shoulders.

The only questions, at least from armchair scouts, are how high his upside is (though no one pegs him as a third line type guy), partly because it's hard to go by USHL stats, and the lack of high end competition he's going to face playing at Harvard.

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Old
06-06-2009, 12:57 PM
  #40
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Originally Posted by Whitesnake View Post
Not true. People who want more francos (and I'm in that group despite not having solely francos on my wishlist) are not basing their opinions (or shouldn't) SOLELY on origins. The player needs to be great. Needs to be what we need. To be french though 'cause of how proud you would be, 'cause what it means to you, can and should be a criteria. I keep coming back to this, (and even though my pick would have been Grachev...), we decided also to go for Kristo instead of Paquette, a guy who could fill the need we have to become like a Chris Neil, a tough guy able to play hockey but is not necessarily in the heavyweights category. Like a Kostopoulos who might actually win a fight from time to time. So this kid wanted badly to be drafted by the Habs. And when he wasn't, his response was, well I will show them that they make a mistake. That kid would have bring a drive. His love for the Habs would have make him work harder, would have make him improve his skating big time, would have conditioned him in becoming a better player so he'd be able to play for the team of his dreams. And to me if he succeeds, not only he reaches his goal, but chances are he'd be able to help my team so again, if my team is your team and everybody else that posts here, why the hell would people don't want to bring a Quebecer like him if it means that we would become a better team? If I can give you examples like that that might might show that chances are we'd become better, why wouldn't we go for those types of guys? Surely, there are not only Q guys that thinks like that. A guy like Higgins thought so as well, a guy like Subban still do. But chances are, the more you are breathing and living around the team you loved watching, the more you'd become a fan of it and want to play badly for it.

Going back to the criterias, it has to be considered. Like being American is a criteria 'cause of how the US are developing their guys, like being a goalie from Quebec used to be a criteria 'cause of how the Q goalies were seen, like being a Swede is a criteria for Detroit, like being a tough canadian kid is a criteria 'cause of how rough the OHL and WHL leagues are and should make you better to play in the NHL.......People just don't realize that to be able to know who the BPA is, you need to have criterias that define what is, for you, a BPA. I mean BPA is obviously not based on points 'cause there are too many factors that can't be determined. What makes Kreider a better BPA than Leblanc? 'Cause he's big and fast? But didn't Leblanc play against a tougher opposition and still did great, can it then make him the BPA.....

Strangely, people keep saying that they don't mind the origin, that origins cannot play a role but when it comes to french and quebecers, it keeps playing a role 'cause some scouts did say that this new rule makes the players softer. 'Cause some posters keep saying that choosing a french player will only happen to please the crowd and not 'cause he could be a good player.
People all over Canada love the habs. Paquette's drive to prove the habs organization wrong will burn out. Esposito seemed to be a little upset when the habs passed over him. Now, after being drafted by the pens, he now plays in Atlanta.

If Leblanc is the BPA at our spot, then by all means draft him. If it's a kid from outwest, or Sweden, or Finland, or the Himalayas, then draft him. The only players in the first-3rd round I'd be hesitant to take and might go for the second BPA are Russians.

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Old
06-06-2009, 02:58 PM
  #41
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It was Brule (not french, but french name) in 05. Esposito in 07. Deschamps last year and looks like Louis Leblanc this year.

From what I've read about Leblanc, nothing really excites me. There must be someone better in the 18th spot than this guy.

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06-06-2009, 03:19 PM
  #42
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Originally Posted by dre2112 View Post
It was Brule (not french, but french name) in 05. Esposito in 07. Deschamps last year and looks like Louis Leblanc this year.

From what I've read about Leblanc, nothing really excites me. There must be someone better in the 18th spot than this guy.
Brule ? I don't remember anything about this. What I remember is that he was mostly considered as the guy who would have been drafted just after Crosby. The vast majority of people thought he wouldn't be available when it would be the time to make our pick. And then, we know the story, Price was drafted and Brule could have been our pick. The fans and medias were then upset we drafted Price. From what I remember, people mostly wanted Kopitar or Bourdon.

As for Leblanc, I've never seen him play so it's hard to judge if he would be a good pick or not based only scouting report. Though, the team seems to like him according to the answers given by Timmins.

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06-06-2009, 03:43 PM
  #43
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I would like to trade up and grab Kadri. I wouldn't mind drafting Leblanc, he seems to be an alright pick, but it seems the focus is on him because he's French Canadian.

The Kadri interview with him saying that he bleeds the habs colours doesn't really affect my choice, I've liked Kadri for a long time. It seems like he'll be going too high for us, unfortunately.

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06-06-2009, 04:43 PM
  #44
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Originally Posted by dre2112 View Post
From what I've read about Leblanc, nothing really excites me. There must be someone better in the 18th spot than this guy.
The Hockey News draft preview has Zack Kassian and Ryan Ellis being selected 16th and 17th respectively. I don't think it's out of the realm of possibility that we could select one of them.

Quoted from the magazine:

Zach Kassian

HT: 6'3"
WT: 205 lbs
POS: RW
Shoots: Right
ISS: #19

"A lot of observers are throwing Milan Lucic's around when they speak of Zack Kassian, right down to the fact Kassian's point and penalty minute totals this season are almost identical to Lucic's in his draft year.

"He's actually probably a little ahead of where Lucic was at that stage in his career," a scout said, "and who dreamed Lucic would end up being this good?"

Kassian is truly a heavyweight at the major junior level, but exhibits a good modicum of skill and scoring for a player of his size. His skating could be better, but it's not a detriment.

"He's a big, strong winger," another scout said. "For a guy that size, he shows you some good things."

But not always, particularly after a seemingly lackluster playoff this spring with the Peterborough Petes.

"His playoff makes you want to go back and check your notes," a scout said. "There should've been more desperation to his game in the playoffs."

THN Projection: Power Forward




Ryan Ellis

HT: 5;10"
WT: 173 lbs
POS: D
Shoots: Right
ISS: #13

It would be patently unfair to label Ryan Ellis as a power play specialist, but you'd be excused if that's the impression you got watching the WJC.

But there is so much more to Ellis' game. He is definitely on the small side by defenseman standards, but his ability to move the puck is something to behold.

"He looks like he'd be able to play the game sitting in a rocking chair," a scout said. "He's so calm that he almost looks bored out there. He always has the puck and nobody is able to get it away from him."

Ellis will have to be paired with a bigger defensive defenseman at the NHL level, but there is no concern among scouts that his size will be a significant issue for him as a pro.

And he can shoot the puck a ton.

"He is so gifted from the offensive blueline," another scout said. "He doesn't skate like (Brian) Rafalski, but Rafalski doesn't quarterback a powerplay the way this kid does."

THN Projection: Offensive Defenseman



It's probably notable that THN attaches the prefix "project" to a lot of their projections but they didn't do that for Kassian or Ellis, which is good because most of us want to see them play sooner than later.

Plus they're both Canadian .

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06-06-2009, 04:58 PM
  #45
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Originally Posted by Kman777 View Post
The Hockey News draft preview has Zack Kassian and Ryan Ellis being selected 16th and 17th respectively. I don't think it's out of the realm of possibility that we could select one of them.

Quoted from the magazine:

Zach Kassian

HT: 6'3"
WT: 205 lbs
POS: RW
Shoots: Right
ISS: #19

"A lot of observers are throwing Milan Lucic's around when they speak of Zack Kassian, right down to the fact Kassian's point and penalty minute totals this season are almost identical to Lucic's in his draft year.

"He's actually probably a little ahead of where Lucic was at that stage in his career," a scout said, "and who dreamed Lucic would end up being this good?"

Kassian is truly a heavyweight at the major junior level, but exhibits a good modicum of skill and scoring for a player of his size. His skating could be better, but it's not a detriment.

"He's a big, strong winger," another scout said. "For a guy that size, he shows you some good things."

But not always, particularly after a seemingly lackluster playoff this spring with the Peterborough Petes.

"His playoff makes you want to go back and check your notes," a scout said. "There should've been more desperation to his game in the playoffs."

THN Projection: Power Forward




Ryan Ellis

HT: 5;10"
WT: 173 lbs
POS: D
Shoots: Right
ISS: #13

It would be patently unfair to label Ryan Ellis as a power play specialist, but you'd be excused if that's the impression you got watching the WJC.

But there is so much more to Ellis' game. He is definitely on the small side by defenseman standards, but his ability to move the puck is something to behold.

"He looks like he'd be able to play the game sitting in a rocking chair," a scout said. "He's so calm that he almost looks bored out there. He always has the puck and nobody is able to get it away from him."

Ellis will have to be paired with a bigger defensive defenseman at the NHL level, but there is no concern among scouts that his size will be a significant issue for him as a pro.

And he can shoot the puck a ton.

"He is so gifted from the offensive blueline," another scout said. "He doesn't skate like (Brian) Rafalski, but Rafalski doesn't quarterback a powerplay the way this kid does."

THN Projection: Offensive Defenseman



It's probably notable that THN attaches the prefix "project" to a lot of their projections but they didn't do that for Kassian or Ellis, which is good because most of us want to see them play sooner than later.

Plus they're both Canadian .
Kassian sounds great but i think our needs in the center position will have us drafting a center with our top pick, which is a shame because he looks great.

I probably wouldn't take ellis, we seem set on offensive d (or d in general) for the future.

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06-06-2009, 05:24 PM
  #46
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Originally Posted by lhf1 View Post
It seems like if we pick a francophone, half the people are going to complain that we picked him only because he's a francophone, and if we don't pick a francophone, the other half will complain we should have picked a francophone. There's no way the Canadiens can please everybody. Both opinions are wrong, because both opinions are based only on origins.
I doubt you can say it's a 50-50 thing. Les Canadiens are not drating at this point in the top 10, so it's hard to tell who might be available at this point.

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06-06-2009, 05:37 PM
  #47
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Kassian sounds great but i think our needs in the center position will have us drafting a center with our top pick, which is a shame because he looks great.

I probably wouldn't take ellis, we seem set on offensive d (or d in general) for the future.
I sort of agree with the Ellis thing but he was damn good in the WJC, IMO it wasn't just Pierre McGuire. I think we should select Kassian in the first round, then trade up into the early second round with one of our RFA's and a third rounder (maybe D'Agostini and Atlanta's 3rd) and grab the big skilled Slovakian center Richard Panik.

I'm no GM but that's what I would try to do.

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06-06-2009, 06:17 PM
  #48
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Originally Posted by Genghis Keon View Post
The interesting thing about Leblanc is that, imo at least, he's the first Quebecer/francophone in a number of years who'll potentially be in our pick range whose game doesn't have any noticeable red flags.

The 2002 draft had PM Bouchard, and he polarized the board a bit because despite his obvious offensive strengths, he was/is a tiny little guy without the great skating ability you hope to see in pint sized players (like Kariya's, for example), especially in the old NHL.

The 2003 had Bernier, but he had skating and conditioning concerns.

The 2004 draft didn't really have anyone, though I guess you could say Picard who went significantly earlier than expected.

The 2005 draft had Pouliot, but more eyes were on Brule. Pouliot had tools, but he came out of nowhere and still didn't exactly dominate.

The 2006 draft had Giroux who was another small, slight guy without great skating ability (and evidently poor foot speed). It looks like he'll pay off for Philly, but the concerns were there.

The 2007 draft had Esposito and Perron. Esposito obviously regressed from the previous year, or rather was exposed, despite his obvious tools, raising concerns. Perron wasn't seen as being the best skater and seemed to rely on low speed flashy moves/dangles that many didn't think would translate to the NHL.

The 2008 draft had Deschamps, who it seems likely we would have drafted if we kept our pick. I don't think many people minded, though, because while he was/is a pretty vanilla player (jack of all trades, master of none), he didn't have many drawbacks.

While Leblanc isn't the biggest guy, he certainly doesn't have any size issues. He's reportedly a very good skater. He reportedly has good hands, scoring ability, and vision/playmaking ability. He reportedly has a very strong work ethic and plays a determined/tenacious/competitive game, not shying away from the rough stuff or high traffic areas. There don't seem to be any locker room issues. He seems to have a good head on his shoulders.

The only questions, at least from armchair scouts, are how high his upside is (though no one pegs him as a third line type guy), partly because it's hard to go by USHL stats, and the lack of high end competition he's going to face playing at Harvard.
Nice post.

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06-07-2009, 02:28 AM
  #49
not quite yoda
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i like ellis alot and think he will make a fine offensive defenceman. not so sure how he ll pan out as far as def skills go.

i think a ellis and subban could make for a great pp tandem five years from now (see WJC). the thin is that we already have weber who is close to NHL ready. his pros and cons compare to ellis'.

is it necessary to have both with the habs? i don t think so. but if ellis is to be the one that turns out to be the better of the two i guess it would make sense, but weber doesn t seem to have much rade value (as compared to say our 18th overall pick right now. if we were to draft ellis and keep weber then it is possible that we d trade elis down the line for a different type of player that we may need more ( say a big forward) but if that s the case why not just draft one now with the 18th pick.

but in the end, it s all for nothing. we will draft whoever timmins and co. think is the BPA, wether that s ellis or not. it is true that you can t project your needs 5 years down the line.

having said all that i like boh weber and ellis alot.

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06-07-2009, 02:35 AM
  #50
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I've seen Leblanc live twice, including the AS game and he reminds me of Bergeron. Talented, always in position defensively but he gets beat in battles along the boards. To me it seemed like he lacked consistent work ethic but maybe they were bad games.

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