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Old
06-05-2009, 03:11 PM
  #26
VictoryRose
 
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LA doesnt do this deal because Quick is not the teams #1 goalie (believe it or don't, whoever grabs the mantle in camp takes the job - that includes Bernier) and the compete level alone between the two at this point for a job insures one will rise, and I'd prefer the Kings keep the better of the two than trade for the guy who might be almost as overrated as Jack Johnson; JVR.

Wait, lets trade them straight up and the flyers can keep sensitive Joffrey and the Kings' can keep their possible budding #1 goaltender.

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Old
06-05-2009, 03:13 PM
  #27
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Would you believe me if I said Claude Giroux's name was being thrown about, not in trade rumors, but actual prospective deals that fell apart for one reason or another. Well, it's true.

don't think for a second Holmgren won't move JVR if the spirit moves him.

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Old
06-05-2009, 03:38 PM
  #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VictoryRose View Post
Would you believe me if I said Claude Giroux's name was being thrown about, not in trade rumors, but actual prospective deals that fell apart for one reason or another. Well, it's true.

don't think for a second Holmgren won't move JVR if the spirit moves him.

I'd like to see a source on that, and I'd like to know when that happened.

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06-05-2009, 04:14 PM
  #29
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no from both sides... i would like JVR.. and it seems hes somewhat expendable for the right pieces.. but id rather not involve Bernier... perhaps Martin Jones would be of interest to Philly after the amazing season he had in the WHL?

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Old
06-05-2009, 04:20 PM
  #30
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Originally Posted by Jwm1986 View Post
no from both sides... i would like JVR.. and it seems hes somewhat expendable for the right pieces.. but id rather not involve Bernier... perhaps Martin Jones would be of interest to Philly after the amazing season he had in the WHL?
if the flyers are dealing from the top of their prospect list, i'd expect them to be adamant that the kings do the same.

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Old
06-05-2009, 04:29 PM
  #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mercury View Post
I'd like to see a source on that, and I'd like to know when that happened.
I'm plugged in, you get nothing when people's jobs are at stake. take it for what it's worth or don't, but it's the truth.

As for when, through early Feb.

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Old
06-05-2009, 04:39 PM
  #32
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Originally Posted by VictoryRose View Post
I'm plugged in, you get nothing when people's jobs are at stake. take it for what it's worth or don't, but it's the truth.

As for when, through early Feb.
Exactly, early February was when he really started coming on as a player, and the organization saw what he was capable of. And about your speculation, I believe none of it, and I'm sure that you're connected about as well as Eklund is.

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Old
06-05-2009, 04:42 PM
  #33
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Originally Posted by BiLLY_ShOE1721 View Post
Exactly, early February was when he really started coming on as a player, and the organization saw what he was capable of. And about your speculation, I believe none of it, and I'm sure that you're connected about as well as Eklund is.
Ek is probably connected a little better. I don't know a lot of the people he does. The difference is, I am not looking to drive a profit through rumors, therefore I have no incentive to make them up. I gain nothing in letting you know Giroux was, at one point, bantered about in deals for nhl roster players, I won't say who. I just hope the only thing gained here is a little insight; if the right player comes that holmes feels is a good fit and JVR is the cost, he makes the deal. As he would have with Giroux.

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Old
06-05-2009, 04:46 PM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VictoryRose View Post
Would you believe me if I said Claude Giroux's name was being thrown about, not in trade rumors, but actual prospective deals that fell apart for one reason or another. Well, it's true.

don't think for a second Holmgren won't move JVR if the spirit moves him.
If you're talking about after he established himself as an NHL regular then yes, that would absolutely shock me. I know for a fact that Giroux was the sticking point in the Jay-Bo negotiations, the Flyers were not including him as part of the deal under any circumstances.

Now I agree that they'd move JVR in the right deal and I don't think this one is bad. I think it would depend a lot on JJ's salary demands. If they're reasonable (he's probably a 2-3 mil defenseman right now) then I would seriously consider it, but the rumors of him requesting up to $5 + mil are extremely far from reasonable.

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Old
06-05-2009, 05:05 PM
  #35
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Originally Posted by Gags1288 View Post
If you're talking about after he established himself as an NHL regular then yes, that would absolutely shock me. I know for a fact that Giroux was the sticking point in the Jay-Bo negotiations, the Flyers were not including him as part of the deal under any circumstances.

Now I agree that they'd move JVR in the right deal and I don't think this one is bad. I think it would depend a lot on JJ's salary demands. If they're reasonable (he's probably a 2-3 mil defenseman right now) then I would seriously consider it, but the rumors of him requesting up to $5 + mil are extremely far from reasonable.

Like I said, mid feb is where giroux-related negotiations tailed off.

I don't recall when his production really took storm, but if it was around then, then it makes a lot of sense why his name would be taken off the table.

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Old
06-05-2009, 05:08 PM
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sensational Spezza View Post
To Joffrey Lupul (4.25M), James vanRiemsdyk (??)

To Jack Johnson (RFA), Jonathon Bernier (0.843M)


With Jon Quick emerging as a #1 goalie and negotiating with Johnson not going well, him and Bernier are tradable

Flyers solve their future in net with Bernier, improve their defense and dump a bit of salary
is a decent offer............ but i don't see the advantage for us.
Lupul isn't doing enough for 4,2 Mill...
He is a lifetime 50 Point scorer

so i say no

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Old
06-05-2009, 06:02 PM
  #37
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I'd do it from a Flyers perspective, but I'd rather have Matt Greene coming back

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Old
06-05-2009, 06:31 PM
  #38
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Originally Posted by Kurrilino View Post
is a decent offer............ but i don't see the advantage for us.
Lupul isn't doing enough for 4,2 Mill...
He is a lifetime 50 Point scorer

so i say no
The lifetime 5 point scorer comment is debatable. He had ~50 points in <50 games the previous year on Mike Richards' line. He is a shooter on a line with two other shooters. If you're a goal scorer, playing on a line with Jeff Carter is going to hurt your stats.

I will spell out the advantage:

You can not play two goalies. Thus, having two good goalies does you little good. You have a lot of depth and talent on defense and by trading JJ you can turn that into some forward depth, also, he is not the easiest player to have on your team from what everyone says.

You can use a good top 6 winger, which JVR could be come this time next year. Joffrey Lupul is one right now.

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Old
06-06-2009, 12:22 AM
  #39
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Jack Johnson isn't going anywhere

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Old
06-06-2009, 12:41 AM
  #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VictoryRose View Post
Would you believe me if I said Claude Giroux's name was being thrown about, not in trade rumors, but actual prospective deals that fell apart for one reason or another. Well, it's true.

don't think for a second Holmgren won't move JVR if the spirit moves him.
No I would not beleive you. And I still do not beleive you since you fail to provide any evidence. Thanks anyways

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Old
06-06-2009, 10:44 AM
  #41
BrindamoursNose
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VictoryRose View Post
Like I said, mid feb is where giroux-related negotiations tailed off.

I don't recall when his production really took storm, but if it was around then, then it makes a lot of sense why his name would be taken off the table.
You're right. Giroux's name was thrown in for Jay Bouwmeester, from the FLA perspective however and not the Philly side....that's why the deal wasn't done (Homer wouldn't give him up).

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06-06-2009, 11:04 AM
  #42
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Originally Posted by I am The Mush View Post
The lifetime 5 point scorer comment is debatable. He had ~50 points in <50 games the previous year on Mike Richards' line. He is a shooter on a line with two other shooters. If you're a goal scorer, playing on a line with Jeff Carter is going to hurt your stats.

I will spell out the advantage:

You can not play two goalies. Thus, having two good goalies does you little good. You have a lot of depth and talent on defense and by trading JJ you can turn that into some forward depth, also, he is not the easiest player to have on your team from what everyone says.

You can use a good top 6 winger, which JVR could be come this time next year. Joffrey Lupul is one right now.
1st .... Johnson is going nowhere........

2nd.. i agree with your top 6 winger, problem is we have tonns of 2nd line Winger. We need a true 1st left wing to step to the next level. All of the Lupuls and Fillpulahs are good but not the piece what puts us over the top.

So i say, like Lombardi... just trade if we have big advantage from that trade.
That one looks like a slight advantage but not that differentmaker and on top we help another team out.
For me, i stay with my gameplan, rather hurt other team instead of making a minimal forward step.
If we can do a big step i don't have a problem to help other teams out

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Old
06-06-2009, 12:22 PM
  #43
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Believe what you guys want, but VictoryRose DOES hear things from good sources.

And Matt Greene is going no where.

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Old
06-06-2009, 12:23 PM
  #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sensational Spezza View Post
To Joffrey Lupul (4.25M), James vanRiemsdyk (??)

To Jack Johnson (RFA), Jonathon Bernier (0.843M)


With Jon Quick emerging as a #1 goalie and negotiating with Johnson not going well, him and Bernier are tradable

Flyers solve their future in net with Bernier, improve their defense and dump a bit of salary
Lupul will kill himself partying in LA.

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Old
06-06-2009, 12:26 PM
  #45
BrindamoursNose
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Originally Posted by Reaper45 View Post
Believe what you guys want, but VictoryRose DOES hear things from good sources.

And Matt Greene is going no where.
I believe him..but then again, I heard the same exact info he just said on Daily News Live the other day... (that Giroux was being asked about for Jay-Bo).

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Old
06-06-2009, 12:46 PM
  #46
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Originally Posted by DapperDan View Post
I thought that the consensus was that JVR for JJ was a fair trade, if not one that favored Philly. It was discussed before and the majority of Philly posters did not have a problem with it. And this whole JJ is a "crybaby" thing has gone too far. Please do some more research other than perusing these boards for more false gossip mongering before you make a claim like that. Let me break it down. CAR let go of JJ because he wanted to keep his word to his college team and play it out there (hmm already an untrustworthy *******..). The claims that his father has been contacting a Russian team are unsubstantiated. Some reports say the team contacted JJ. Regardless, it's a play to force Lombardi's hand at worst. Not the most horrible act. This guy wants to play in the NHL and is ready to show everyone what he can do. Give him a full season on a revamped Kings team and he'll quiet all the naysayers.
Quote:
Originally Posted by go kim johnsson 514 View Post
The Jack Johnson thing is way overblown.

you guys might be completely correct... the whole JJ thing may well be completely overblown and his value shouldn't be effected by false rumours about him.

however, the fact is that there are rumours out there about him, false or not, and that will have any team wanting assurances before giving him the value that Kings fans think he deserves.

If he's willing to sign a multi-year deal at around $3-3.5mill/yr, he has tons of value... that's a higher contract that his play so far is probably worth, but very fair considering the contracts other young dmen with potential, who haven't yet proven themselves as top players.... so comparatively that's a fair contract for JJ, and if he's willing to sign that, his value is solid on the trade market.

But as of right now, there are enough rumours about him being a problem-child, and enough evidence with his dad's involvement in his hockey life, that any team would want a guarantee before giving him the value the Kings deserve they should get... simply put, if he isn't willing to sign for less than the $5.5mill/yr that has been rumoured, he doesn't hold a lot of value to many teams around the league. He's just not worth that, and it's not worth it for any team to take on a contract like that for a guy who's - at the very least - raised some red flags regarding his character and commitment to the team.

Maybe reality is that he never asked for it... maybe he's a character player who puts his team first, and his dad isn't a concern for any organization, and won't meddle in his career or his contract negotiations at all... maybe all of this really is blown out of proportion.

But whether it's true or not, the message is out there, and that message alone will have potential suitors concerned. So unless JJ comes complete with a signed contract at favourable $$, his value just isn't there IMO for any team to take a risk on for anything substantial.

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Old
06-06-2009, 12:47 PM
  #47
NFITO
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Originally Posted by AndreaBargnani View Post
Lupul will kill himself partying in LA.
yea, it's not like Lupul knows what it's like to play in the LA area

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Old
06-06-2009, 05:13 PM
  #48
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Originally Posted by BrindamoursNose View Post
You're right. Giroux's name was thrown in for Jay Bouwmeester, from the FLA perspective however and not the Philly side....that's why the deal wasn't done (Homer wouldn't give him up).
Yeah I don't doubt for a second it was part of the JayBo thing (legitimately, not just as something reported on a blog or by Al Morganti) but he was part of other talks too, specifically for rostered forwards.

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Old
06-06-2009, 05:15 PM
  #49
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Originally Posted by Reaper45 View Post
Believe what you guys want, but VictoryRose DOES hear things from good sources.

And Matt Greene is going no where.

thanks reap..
and I'd classify it as "very unlikely" that MG would go anywhere, but he's in line to take a bullet before KQ or DD. I think though, he was playing with an undisclosed nagging injury for a stretch, and aside from that, he had a very good season and earned his respectable (for both sides) contract.

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