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Slump Bustin' a goalie

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Old
06-08-2009, 12:51 AM
  #1
Rickety Cricket
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Slump Bustin' a goalie

I am in the a heinously bad slump. My team has lost 9 games in a row and a big part of it is my play. The two big problems I have is letting in weak goals from on the ice where in the past I would use my stick to push the shots to the corner. For some reason now I'm automatically raising my stick (maybe I'm anticipating a high shot? I am a short goalie and people do shoot high on me). Another is my angles from the extreme left or right (high up near the circles mainly) are down right awful. There are times where I am set and feel like I have the angle covered but then after they score I turn around and see they have a whole lot of net to shoot at. I've tried doing stuff like reminding myself inbetween whistles to keep my stick down, but that doesn't work. I have no idea how to get out of this slump.

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06-08-2009, 12:56 AM
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Gunnar Stahl 30
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know where you are on the ice. look down at the ice to see where you are in the net.

you shouldnt be popping up. if you pop up, you are exposing everything on the ice. even if you are a short goalie, when in butterfly(if you play butterfly) you should still cover most of the upper net. keep your knees bent and stay low. also, you have to forget about the past and start clean. next game, just start over. dont think about the mistakes youve made, just play and react

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06-08-2009, 01:16 AM
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A lot of knee flex helps keep the stick down.

Also try to keep your stick like a half a foot in front of your pads when you're in your stance. That way the space allows your wrist to cushion shots and control rebounds, and your stick can move independently of your pads (i.e. when you butterfly the stick doesn't have to move). I also like to stick my blocker elbow up towards to top corner. It drives the weight of my arm down on my stick and sort of forces me to keep it down and takes away the top corner for the shooter visually, which is good if you're a small goalie. Also the lie of your blade and length of your paddle might be shorter than you want. I like a really long paddle, and a relatively vertical stick. I am only about 6 foot, and my stance is lower than a lot of goalies, but I like to carry my hands high.

As for the angles, I do the same thing sometimes when I am playing lazy (if my teams winning by a lot). Whenever the puck leaves my zone, I try to go back to my posts and put a hand on each corner (sometimes I talk to them, that is definitely a personal choice though, haha). I stay there until I have to leave the net, this way, I have a recent spatial reference to what I am protecting. Before I would just float out in the top of the crease, because I knew I was going to come out of my net to cut the angle down (I am very aggressive in this respect). The problem was that I was sitting in front of my net for a minute or two and would lose the reference point I had from touching the posts and standing in the center of my net.


When you say your angles are bad, is it a trend in one direction, or are you just all over the place. I.e. are you leaving too much net short side, far side or both on different occaisons?

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06-08-2009, 01:32 AM
  #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gunnar Stahl 30 View Post
know where you are on the ice.
That's the idea, yeah.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gunnar Stahl 30 View Post
look down at the ice to see where you are in the net.
Not to be contrary, but if he can avoid looking away from the puck during a rush into his zone, or as infrequently as possible, then that is best in my opinion. If you have to look to the ice for visual cues then your not watching the play, so it should be a lost resort IMO.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gunnar Stahl 30 View Post
You have to forget about the past and start clean. Next game, just start over. Don't think about the mistakes you've made, just play and react.
Great advice. I know this can be a problem for me if I am slumping. You want to turn your play around completely and go out and kick ass for your team mates, to make up for having let them down. Then if I let in anything, I feel like I let them down all over again. If you have team mates that are dicks it doesn't help. If you are slumping, it doesn't hurt to acknowledge it and clear the air. Your team mates, once shown that you are trying, will probably go from badgering, to supportive, if they aren't already.

Sometimes it can help me to do a few things to keep my head in it if I have a rough period, but my team has kept me in the game. I like to go over to my team and acknowledge the need to play better, and tell them results aside, they will get my best effort for the remainder of the game. Then, try to break the periods down into smaller periods. When I am slumping, I know I am going to be constantly looking from the outside in, judging my performance even as I am playing. It is the wrong way to think but I can't help it. So every period I play, I break into four five minute periods. Five minutes of shut out hockey doesn't seem like such a huge task.

When you butterfly are you sliding your feet out, away from you, or under you and back? If it is under you and backward (which is considered "unideal" typically) then your hips are probably going up before they come down, which slows the speed you seal the ice with, particularly the 5 hole. A little wider stance and some additional knee flexion tends to make sliding your feet out to the side ore natural and gets you lower, both of which increase your speed getting down.

Take everything I am posting with a grain of salt. I am not a coach, just a guy who works hard at the position and tries to soak up everything I can from anyone. This is all just what experience has borne out to work for me. Also, maybe you could drill what you're having trouble with. Preparation breeds confidence. And when you're confident everything just seems to flow doesn't it?


Again, good luck man


Last edited by Giroux tha Damaja: 06-08-2009 at 01:38 AM.
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06-08-2009, 01:44 AM
  #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by I am The Mush View Post
A lot of knee flex helps keep the stick down.

Also try to keep your stick like a half a foot in front of your pads when you're in your stance. That way the space allows your wrist to cushion shots and control rebounds, and your stick can move independently of your pads (i.e. when you butterfly the stick doesn't have to move). I also like to stick my blocker elbow up towards to top corner. It drives the weight of my arm down on my stick and sort of forces me to keep it down and takes away the top corner for the shooter visually, which is good if you're a small goalie. Also the lie of your blade and length of your paddle might be shorter than you want. I like a really long paddle, and a relatively vertical stick. I am only about 6 foot, and my stance is lower than a lot of goalies, but I like to carry my hands high.

As for the angles, I do the same thing sometimes when I am playing lazy (if my teams winning by a lot). Whenever the puck leaves my zone, I try to go back to my posts and put a hand on each corner (sometimes I talk to them, that is definitely a personal choice though, haha). I stay there until I have to leave the net, this way, I have a recent spatial reference to what I am protecting. Before I would just float out in the top of the crease, because I knew I was going to come out of my net to cut the angle down (I am very aggressive in this respect). The problem was that I was sitting in front of my net for a minute or two and would lose the reference point I had from touching the posts and standing in the center of my net.


When you say your angles are bad, is it a trend in one direction, or are you just all over the place. I.e. are you leaving too much net short side, far side or both on different occaisons?
I tend to leave too much net on both sides. I do the thing with touching the posts too, but I lose my angle when there are cross ice passes and such.

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06-08-2009, 01:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by I am The Mush View Post
That's the idea, yeah.


Not to be contrary, but if he can avoid looking away from the puck during a rush into his zone, or as infrequently as possible, then that is best in my opinion. If you have to look to the ice for visual cues then your not watching the play, so it should be a lost resort IMO.



Great advice. I know this can be a problem for me if I am slumping. You want to turn your play around completely and go out and kick ass for your team mates, to make up for having let them down. Then if I let in anything, I feel like I let them down all over again. If you have team mates that are dicks it doesn't help. If you are slumping, it doesn't hurt to acknowledge it and clear the air. Your team mates, once shown that you are trying, will probably go from badgering, to supportive, if they aren't already.

Sometimes it can help me to do a few things to keep my head in it if I have a rough period, but my team has kept me in the game. I like to go over to my team and acknowledge the need to play better, and tell them results aside, they will get my best effort for the remainder of the game. Then, try to break the periods down into smaller periods. When I am slumping, I know I am going to be constantly looking from the outside in, judging my performance even as I am playing. It is the wrong way to think but I can't help it. So every period I play, I break into four five minute periods. Five minutes of shut out hockey doesn't seem like such a huge task.

When you butterfly are you sliding your feet out, away from you, or under you and back? If it is under you and backward (which is considered "unideal" typically) then your hips are probably going up before they come down, which slows the speed you seal the ice with, particularly the 5 hole. A little wider stance and some additional knee flexion tends to make sliding your feet out to the side ore natural and gets you lower, both of which increase your speed getting down.

Take everything I am posting with a grain of salt. I am not a coach, just a guy who works hard at the position and tries to soak up everything I can from anyone. This is all just what experience has borne out to work for me. Also, maybe you could drill what you're having trouble with. Preparation breeds confidence. And when you're confident everything just seems to flow doesn't it?


Again, good luck man
We all know what's up and we've discussed it. I am willing to take advice from my teammates and such

As for the butterfly thing, I tend to push my feet out.

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06-08-2009, 02:36 AM
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it sounds to me like your losing track of where you are in relation to the net... Their should be some bands... I know it sounds silly but it works, Kinda like bigger rubber bands that you can attach to the posts and them put them to your back and if you practice with them on I've really seen them help some kids because they get almost a 6th sense at to where they are in accordance to the net and they grow used to just knowing how far they are away. Im sure if your up to it you can take some rope or something.

Practice shoot outs from center ice, seeing a skater coming down the ice onto you enough times should give you an idea of your position from net and should help your "Stop-Gap" problem.

Confidence is huge part of goalies game, Chin up, glove up and you should be on your way. Every game is a new one.

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06-08-2009, 02:39 AM
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Another thing I've also seen... We all have our favorite players out there, find a goalie you like and identify with and watch some video whether it be youtube or what not and try to emulate. I've seen a ton of kids pull themselves up through confidence and such by finding a goalie role model and studying his style to emulate it and find the same kind of success.

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06-08-2009, 03:01 AM
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Giroux tha Damaja
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Murderin Murphy View Post
I tend to leave too much net on both sides. I do the thing with touching the posts too, but I lose my angle when there are cross ice passes and such.
How far out are you coming on the initial shooter? If you're coming way far out then maybe you're being forced to do too much skating to stay in position (you can't get to the shot lane in a compact stance or a single stride)? I usually don't come more than a step past the crease unless I know the guy only shoots and he has a howitzer.

Some goalies I play with do these drills as a leg warm up/positioning refresher before games, and between whistles. Maybe they could help establish a sort of muscle memory regarding how far out is the max you want to go and what feels right in terms of the farthest you want to move laterally? I see some guys add an extra stop in at the top of the crease. I also see them sometimes work in some shuffles back to their same side post, like if a guy was carrying ti down the boards.




P.S. You owe me a vial of Richter. I won't get into details.


Last edited by Giroux tha Damaja: 06-08-2009 at 03:07 AM.
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06-08-2009, 04:13 PM
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As a skater, what I've noticed is goalies who stay too far in or come too far out are the easy ones to score on. Try and find the right spot in the middle, and the same thing is true of the angle. If you hug the post too much, the far side will be open. Goaltending is a compromise, a very good player once told me that even the world's best goalie leaves plenty of open net. The key is just leaving open net that's tougher for the shooter to hit than they'd like, e.g. pick your battles better.

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06-08-2009, 04:25 PM
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Playing goal is the hardest positon to play on the ice ... it takes a long time to be good at it.

The most common problem I see are goalies missing their angles and giving up the shortside or the wideside. I really have no advice since I KNOW NOTHING about playing goal.

All I can say is to utilize video ... there must be a million instructional videos out there for whatever your level is. Heck even Youtube muct have a million videos like the one posted above.

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06-08-2009, 07:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Murderin Murphy View Post
I am in the a heinously bad slump. My team has lost 9 games in a row and a big part of it is my play. The two big problems I have is letting in weak goals from on the ice where in the past I would use my stick to push the shots to the corner. For some reason now I'm automatically raising my stick (maybe I'm anticipating a high shot? I am a short goalie and people do shoot high on me). Another is my angles from the extreme left or right (high up near the circles mainly) are down right awful. There are times where I am set and feel like I have the angle covered but then after they score I turn around and see they have a whole lot of net to shoot at. I've tried doing stuff like reminding myself inbetween whistles to keep my stick down, but that doesn't work. I have no idea how to get out of this slump.

I'm not a goalie, but it sounds to me like maybe you need to be challenging shooters a bit more?

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06-08-2009, 07:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by I am The Mush View Post
How far out are you coming on the initial shooter? If you're coming way far out then maybe you're being forced to do too much skating to stay in position (you can't get to the shot lane in a compact stance or a single stride)? I usually don't come more than a step past the crease unless I know the guy only shoots and he has a howitzer.

Some goalies I play with do these drills as a leg warm up/positioning refresher before games, and between whistles. Maybe they could help establish a sort of muscle memory regarding how far out is the max you want to go and what feels right in terms of the farthest you want to move laterally? I see some guys add an extra stop in at the top of the crease. I also see them sometimes work in some shuffles back to their same side post, like if a guy was carrying ti down the boards.




P.S. You owe me a vial of Richter. I won't get into details.
Yea I used to do that in college, I need to probably do those again. As for the P.S. I'm working on it.

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06-08-2009, 07:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MistaWrista View Post
As a skater, what I've noticed is goalies who stay too far in or come too far out are the easy ones to score on. Try and find the right spot in the middle, and the same thing is true of the angle. If you hug the post too much, the far side will be open. Goaltending is a compromise, a very good player once told me that even the world's best goalie leaves plenty of open net. The key is just leaving open net that's tougher for the shooter to hit than they'd like, e.g. pick your battles better.
I think I might be alternating between coming out too much or too little.

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06-09-2009, 02:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Murderin Murphy View Post
I think I might be alternating between coming out too much or too little.
Got a friend with a camera? Maybe that could help you diagnose w/e is going on?


Last edited by Giroux tha Damaja: 06-15-2009 at 02:10 AM.
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06-15-2009, 02:11 AM
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So have you played again yet?

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06-15-2009, 10:07 AM
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So have you played again yet?
Not in a game, I've done a pickup with a couple of friends and such, it's gotten a little better.

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06-15-2009, 12:05 PM
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I've talked about this skill in relation to other positions but it helps in goal as well.

Practice using your peripheral vision. Sometimes losing your angle or placement in the net is because you just don't realize where you are in relation to your normal cues (posts, faceoff circles, crease).

Spend a few moments each night doing your normal routine (watching sports, computer stuff, whatever) but concentrate at noticing what is going on around you with your peripheral vision. (Oh, the dog just got up and moved, a person just walked by outside etc.) Also pick something static up with your peripheral vision and think of how close it is to you. After a few seconds look right at it and see if your periph vision was close.

At times a person can zone in so much on the task at hand, puck carrier, etc that you lose focus on the important things going on around you.

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06-17-2009, 10:48 AM
  #19
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Hey MM,
when I am slumping in net, I find I just need to get away - I was hitting a bad slump late last year (I play in a league and pick-up game during the winter, plus taking the occasional calls).
I just couldn't shake that bad feeling, and I know I was letting my team down - so I took a couple of weeks off - arranged to have another buddy take my place and after those 2 weeks I was pumped to get back between the pipes. It helped, my game came back (not right away) but it did improve, and I was hitting a really good stride within a month that carried me to the end of the season.
As you can see from the posts above, people want to give advice and give you more to think about - I think you need to completely decompress, just forget about it and get away - don't get me wrong, I still watched hockey but that time away gave me a chance to miss it and start clean.

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06-22-2009, 03:05 AM
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So I had an actual game tonight, and even though we lost I felt a lot better and made saves that I normally would have trouble making. I bought new skates and they really helped with my balance and applied a lot of the advice Headcoach offered me and that helped. Taking a week off of games though was good to clear my head.

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06-22-2009, 09:53 AM
  #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Murderin Murphy View Post
I am in the a heinously bad slump. My team has lost 9 games in a row and a big part of it is my play. The two big problems I have is letting in weak goals from on the ice where in the past I would use my stick to push the shots to the corner. For some reason now I'm automatically raising my stick (maybe I'm anticipating a high shot? I am a short goalie and people do shoot high on me). Another is my angles from the extreme left or right (high up near the circles mainly) are down right awful. There are times where I am set and feel like I have the angle covered but then after they score I turn around and see they have a whole lot of net to shoot at. I've tried doing stuff like reminding myself inbetween whistles to keep my stick down, but that doesn't work. I have no idea how to get out of this slump.
Well, i'm not sure if i sent this to you or not via PM, but just in case, here you go.

Back in the late 60's early 70's, the Russians were experimenting with the conscious and sub-conscious mind. They came up with very interesting conclusions. Here it is...

They found that there is no difference between the two except that you use your conscious mind while you are a wake and the sub-conscious mind while you are a sleep.

What make this so interesting is that they figured out how to preprogram the sub-conscious mind while you sleep so the mind thinks that when you are awake, you had already performed the task. Let me give you an example.

They took two basketball teams, one on the court doing actual practice and the other in a room on recliner chairs listening to music and every time they heard a base beat, they made the pass or took the shot. The shot need to be that kind of shot that didn't hit the rim, but would go through without hitting the rim. You follow me so far?

Then when it came time for game time, the team that did the meditation beat the practice team by a large margin.

Now, what does this mean for you?

Every night before you go to bed, you lie down on the bed with a pillow under your head and I want you to listen to your IPod, and very beat you hear, you picture in your mind the perfect save....each time. And I want you to make those stand on your head type of saves....two legged pad slides, out of the air grabbing puck saves, skate saves, split blocker saves...etc.

Now, I want you to do this every night for 30 days. If it improves your game, then you continue. If it doesn't help your game out after 30 days....stop! Now this doesn't mean listen one night and not the next...every night for 30 days...no excuses.

Now, don't listen to the radio when you go to sleep. Because every 30 mins, there is news and generally it's bad news. This is why you don't listen to the radio at night.

Now the Russians found out that if you do this every night before you go to bed and hit ream sleep, you body (mind) will work on the last 5 mins on what you were doing for the next 8 hours. It's like an 8 hr. practice while you sleep.

So, the next time you play, your mind will think you have done it in the past and you will make the save because as far as your mind is concerned...you have. Get it!

So, you try this for 30 days and then PM and let me know what you think. It has worked for every goalie I have taught and it has worked for me when I played.

After a couple of days...there will be no slump!

Good luck
Head coach

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Last edited by Headcoach: 06-22-2009 at 10:04 AM.
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06-22-2009, 10:58 AM
  #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Headcoach View Post
Well, i'm not sure if i sent this to you or not via PM, but just in case, here you go.

Back in the late 60's early 70's, the Russians were experimenting with the conscious and sub-conscious mind. They came up with very interesting conclusions. Here it is...

They found that there is no difference between the two except that you use your conscious mind while you are a wake and the sub-conscious mind while you are a sleep.

What make this so interesting is that they figured out how to preprogram the sub-conscious mind while you sleep so the mind thinks that when you are awake, you had already performed the task. Let me give you an example.

They took two basketball teams, one on the court doing actual practice and the other in a room on recliner chairs listening to music and every time they heard a base beat, they made the pass or took the shot. The shot need to be that kind of shot that didn't hit the rim, but would go through without hitting the rim. You follow me so far?

Then when it came time for game time, the team that did the meditation beat the practice team by a large margin.

Now, what does this mean for you?

Every night before you go to bed, you lie down on the bed with a pillow under your head and I want you to listen to your IPod, and very beat you hear, you picture in your mind the perfect save....each time. And I want you to make those stand on your head type of saves....two legged pad slides, out of the air grabbing puck saves, skate saves, split blocker saves...etc.

Now, I want you to do this every night for 30 days. If it improves your game, then you continue. If it doesn't help your game out after 30 days....stop! Now this doesn't mean listen one night and not the next...every night for 30 days...no excuses.

Now, don't listen to the radio when you go to sleep. Because every 30 mins, there is news and generally it's bad news. This is why you don't listen to the radio at night.

Now the Russians found out that if you do this every night before you go to bed and hit ream sleep, you body (mind) will work on the last 5 mins on what you were doing for the next 8 hours. It's like an 8 hr. practice while you sleep.

So, the next time you play, your mind will think you have done it in the past and you will make the save because as far as your mind is concerned...you have. Get it!

So, you try this for 30 days and then PM and let me know what you think. It has worked for every goalie I have taught and it has worked for me when I played.

After a couple of days...there will be no slump!

Good luck
Head coach
Wow, that's REALLY interesting. Any chance you know what the name of the experiment was so I could look into it.

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06-22-2009, 11:21 AM
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Wow, that's REALLY interesting. Any chance you know what the name of the experiment was so I could look into it.
Nope, but it was in the New England Journal of Medcine, or something like that, back in 1974 or 75. I was in High school back then and my mother was a big reading nut on everything. I think it might have been in the Reader's Digest as well. I will try to contact her to see if she remembers what artical it was in and then get back with you.

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06-22-2009, 04:16 PM
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Well, i'm not sure if i sent this to you or not via PM, but just in case, here you go.

Back in the late 60's early 70's, ...
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well I think I'll try that too then... this seems like a really good exercise.

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06-22-2009, 04:34 PM
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well I think I'll try that too then... this seems like a really good exercise.

Ok, let me know how it goes for you.

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