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Gary Bettman Interview(s)

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Old
06-08-2009, 12:10 PM
  #101
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Originally Posted by kyle747 View Post
Umm, no it's not even close. In the Tampa/Fla case the tickets are distributed via marketing campaigns for next to nothing.

In Ottawa entire areas of the arena are sold to corporate sponsors who essentially use a channel sale method that includes the club.

If you familiar with corporate sales and marketing you will see the difference. in any case what it amounts to is that in Ottawa the club gets full pop for the tickets. In Tampa/Florida/Phoenix they get very little. That's the real issue anyway.
Which explains why desipite having solid attendence Tampa is in financial trouble.

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06-08-2009, 12:40 PM
  #102
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Those who think CBC pays for Canadian teams have no clue what their talking about.
Just because they chose to show a Canadian team most of the time is irrelevant.
Conveniently you leave out the playoffs , which is what most if the TV money goes to.
I'm sure CBC would pay just as much if they didn't show games with Ovechkin, Crosby , Malkin, etc.
Not to pick on you, but I love the all-encompassing generalization... "those who think X must be Y". Y is often not complimentary either.

The CBC would probably prefer to carry mainly Leafs games, just like RDS pays for Habs games. It's almost as if these cities were Canada's version of NY and LA markets, only with teams that generations of fans have been following.

I think the ratings in Canada would show that Canadian viewership falls off when there is no Canadian team involved. If it were possible, I shudder to think what the ratings would be for a Leafs-Habs Cup final.

It is not at all irrelevant that they choose to show a Canadian team. In fact, I'm fairly certain it is done willfully whenever possible.

Finally, as far as playoffs, if the money was mainly for the playoffs, why would the negotiations about who gets how many games - and which games - be so carefully negotiated? (Leafs also have to give up several games to the national broadcast, which in the end does cost them money. Recall that most teams have individual deals.)

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06-08-2009, 12:49 PM
  #103
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Originally Posted by Mo'sShow09 View Post
At least MacLean challenges Bettman. Ron always seems to come off looking like the "bad guy" in these interviews but he poses difficult questions that he feels are pertinent ones. Ron's job isn't to just commend Gary for everything he does or to pose questions that Bettman wants to answer to look good. Bettman is a smooth operator who knows how to handle himself, if that's because he's a good spin doctor or liar, I don't know. At the end of the day it was a good interview but didn't provide much more insight than we already know.
The problem with Ron is that he is a biased interviewer. He has a very clear stance on the Balsillie/Moyes/Hamilton vs. Bettman/NHL/other 4 major sports situation and his interview came across that way too. There is asking tough questions, and there is asking biased questions. To me, Ron spent too much time on the bias.

Bettman isn't an overly eloquent speaker and he comes across poorly in these short interviews because you are talking about a very difficult situation to discuss. Balsillie's arguments are simple:

"I like hockey"
"Hamilton has a building and I want to go there"
"I'm offering 212.5M"
"I'm Canadian, makeitseven.com"
"Phoenix loses buckets of money"

However, for the NHL's side they have to go into the detail of those arguments it isn't nearly as simple.

The counter to Phoenix losing buckets of money is that ownership/management hasn't put a good product on the ice. The team hasn't been in the playoffs since the beginning of the decade and they have yet to win a playoff series. Fan/brand loyalty has to be earned and it is the casual fan that serves as the starting point for the development of core fans. Casual fans are attracted to success.
The arena was built in the middle of nowhere and the development project around the arena wasn't built like it was supposed to be and is considerably behind schedule. That has limited the interest in the area that the arena was built. People will only go a finite distance to see a product...they aren't going to drive out of their way to watch a team not make the playoffs, but if you have the ability to do walk-up because you are already in the area, the attendance should improve.

Concession were offered by Glendale, and other offers were on the table from several individuals. The problem with most of those interested parties is their offers usually have non-disclosure. So Bettman can say "we had people interested" but until he is ordered to by the courts, or the party agrees to be named, he can't say anything. So the immediate spin is "there isn't anyone".

There are also a lot of spin games being played with the financials of Balsillie's offer in relation to Rodier's efforts to get a team through bankruptcy.

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06-08-2009, 01:07 PM
  #104
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Originally Posted by leek View Post
Please help me understand something. When fans are upset, they rarely refer to "The NHL", most often they will refer to Bettman, as if he is the sole source of their frustration or disagreement. When fans seem upset with something in the NBA, it is mainly frustration expressed at "The NBA", rarely do basketball fans say that damn Stern. The same seems to be true with MLB, the NFL and the CFL.
There is little question that baseball's Commissioner has more power then the NHL's. The NFL's Commissioner has arguably been the single most powerful person in North American sports for over 50 years. Additionally, several MLB Commissioners going back to Kenesaw Mountain Landis have been the most capricious, vindictive and destructive CEO's in all of sport.

What's different about the NHL?
It's quite simple. Gary Bettman is short. AND he is a New Yawwwwwk lawyer.

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06-08-2009, 01:17 PM
  #105
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It may have nothing to do with the fact that the man lacks charisma. There are lawyers with charisma (I know, I know, tough one to believe), and there are New Yorkers with charisma.

(There is also a perception among some fans that he's not very honest.)

I think he comes off as a technician, in the sense that he ticks off points, argues from a business or law perspective in presenting his case; moreover, he is usually very dismissive of any other viewpoints. A gifted leader would spend more time including all the other viewpoints, appearing to address them, but still being able to convince people that he's right. He's just not a gifted communicator. Unfortunately that is what people respond to, especially in an age where access is somewhat instantaneous and unavoidable thanks to the electronic age. Some people are just better at performing in front of the camera.

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06-08-2009, 02:13 PM
  #106
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Originally Posted by GSC2k2 View Post
It's quite simple. Gary Bettman is short. AND he is a New Yawwwwwk lawyer.
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Originally Posted by Fugu View Post
It may have nothing to do with the fact that the man lacks charisma. There are lawyers with charisma (I know, I know, tough one to believe), and there are New Yorkers with charisma.

(There is also a perception among some fans that he's not very honest.)

I think he comes off as a technician, in the sense that he ticks off points, argues from a business or law perspective in presenting his case; moreover, he is usually very dismissive of any other viewpoints. A gifted leader would spend more time including all the other viewpoints, appearing to address them, but still being able to convince people that he's right. He's just not a gifted communicator. Unfortunately that is what people respond to, especially in an age where access is somewhat instantaneous and unavoidable thanks to the electronic age. Some people are just better at performing in front of the camera.
When someone usually thinks of a New Yawwwwk lawyer, they often think of a "certain" heritage. I think the epitome of this is Joe Flom of Skadden, Arps fame.
When I see Bettman interviewed, his personality doesn't bother me, but I am used to guys like him. I'm examining the substance of his remarks to see if it holds up.
I do believe he comes across as very intelligent and self-secure. As someone else mentioned, he usually has several advantages in interviews, not the least of which is that he has all the data and it's locked in his brain.
How do both of you feel about the claims that some of it is due to anti-Semitism?


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06-08-2009, 03:16 PM
  #107
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Originally Posted by WhalerTurnedBruin55 View Post
But also isn't it hypocritical what Bettman says about saving these new franchises but he didn't do enough to keep the teams in the mentioned cities (as well as Hartford and the first/real Minnesota team). There were other factors in all of these moves, such as politics, financial situations, arenas, but Bettman didn't do anything to help them out.
Who are you to say he did nothing to help them out? You know nothing to support that.

What we do know from Edmonton sources is that he DOES attempt to rally local ownership, when it was willing to step up. There was no one in Winnipeg willing to step up, or Quebec city. There WAS in Edmonton, so it stayed. There was in every city he has fought for and successfully held in place. There appears to be so in Phoenix as well.

I think some of you deniers think that the league should have funded Winnipeg and Quebec City indefinitely, just because they are Canadian cities. They didn't support their teams, they didn't have the arenas, they didn't have the ownership... they didn't have any options left.

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These teams had established fanbases which were left out to dry. So people from these fanbases have the right to be angered at him, whether you think it is 'hypocritical beyond belief' or not.
This "right" is based on ignorance. Where were these fanbases when it became time to pay up to keep the team in place? Apparently not opening their wallets, eh? Easy to talk the talk, not so easy to walk the walk...

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I doubt this is a situation where Bettman has learned from his mistakes, but more of a political and saving face move.
All the PR and politics being played right now is coming from Balsillie's camp in his efforts to paint this as something its not - something about Canada. Bettman isn't paid by the fans and isn't a politician, what the public thinks of him personally doesn't change what he needs to do one whit. So your claim that it is "saving face" is complete crap.

Quote:
Bettman put all of these teams where they are that he is trying to save.
Bettman has worked to save teams that he had nothing to do with placing. Please learn what you are talking about before posting.

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He had no reason to care about the teams/cities he originally moved. He doesn't want to look like a fool admitting one of his teams/moves is failing.
He has successfully shown that teams who succeed on the ice can succeed off the ice. He has successfully shown that the Coyotes/Jets have had a miserable run of non-success. We can also successfully show that this sort of "winner breeds success" behavior is not limited to American teams.

Basically, Bettman is once again being shown to have been right all along.

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06-08-2009, 03:21 PM
  #108
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Originally Posted by leek View Post
PWhat's different about the NHL?
He's not a "Canadian hockey guy", so the Canadian sports media hates him and takes unprofessional potshots at his height and the lemmings who actually take them seriously go along with it.

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06-08-2009, 03:26 PM
  #109
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The problem with Ron is that he is a biased interviewer. He has a very clear stance on the Balsillie/Moyes/Hamilton vs. Bettman/NHL/other 4 major sports situation and his interview came across that way too. There is asking tough questions, and there is asking biased questions. To me, Ron spent too much time on the bias.

Bettman isn't an overly eloquent speaker and he comes across poorly in these short interviews because you are talking about a very difficult situation to discuss. Balsillie's arguments are simple:

"I like hockey"
"Hamilton has a building and I want to go there"
"I'm offering 212.5M"
"I'm Canadian, makeitseven.com"
"Phoenix loses buckets of money"

However, for the NHL's side they have to go into the detail of those arguments it isn't nearly as simple.
This is a very famous effect, where one side has the luxury of "sounding" a lot better than the other because its easier for plebes to understand the sound bytes, as you just illustrated. Unfortunately, it's almost never correct.
Mod-edit: deleted.


Last edited by Snoil11: 06-08-2009 at 03:47 PM. Reason: let's keep worldviews out of this
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06-08-2009, 03:38 PM
  #110
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Originally Posted by Fugu View Post
It may have nothing to do with the fact that the man lacks charisma. There are lawyers with charisma (I know, I know, tough one to believe), and there are New Yorkers with charisma.

(There is also a perception among some fans that he's not very honest.)

I think he comes off as a technician, in the sense that he ticks off points, argues from a business or law perspective in presenting his case; moreover, he is usually very dismissive of any other viewpoints. A gifted leader would spend more time including all the other viewpoints, appearing to address them, but still being able to convince people that he's right. He's just not a gifted communicator. Unfortunately that is what people respond to, especially in an age where access is somewhat instantaneous and unavoidable thanks to the electronic age. Some people are just better at performing in front of the camera.
I think his interviews are colored by both the interviewer and the viewer themselves.

I've seen him talking in places other than being interviewed by a sports media personality, where he is not in the PR role. When you see that person in action you realize right then why manipulative thugs such as Goodenow were meeting their match (or more than their match) when they were able to act with impunity before against people such as Ziegler.

However, when he is with, say Maclean... well Maclean has telegraphed from day one that he wants to try to "challenge" Bettman. I remember the earliest interviews, whenever Maclean would try one of his "investigative reporter" questions Bettman would smile - he knew EXACTLY what Maclean was trying to do, and the clumsiness of it - to someone who is used to far more sophisticated lines of attack - has to be amusing.

Notice when a question (relating to the business side of hockey) gets down to brass tacks rather than PR sound bytes, the smarminess (as some people would see it) instantly drops away and boom, Bettman suddenly has answers, statistics, data, whatever is necessary, at the drop of a hat, along with a depth of understanding of not just the "what", but the "why" and "how" of any issue, a depth of understanding that, to be brutally honest, is so far ahead of most the sports media that it is almost pointless to be addressing it to them. No matter who you want to believe, the simple fact is he's a lot smarter AND better informed than the vast majority of them.

The Canadian sports media can't be won over by anything Bettman says or does, they have made that abundantly clear. So he plays their game (it's not his, it's theirs) and who can blame him if he has fun with it? He always wins.

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06-08-2009, 04:37 PM
  #111
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Originally Posted by Haymaker View Post
Uhhhh, Canadian Dollar Equalization Plan?



Yeah, he has all sorts of legal experience.



I suggest you just stop watching the NHL ... not only because you hate Gary's league for no particular reason, but also because the league doesn't need 'fans' like you.
Who are you to tell somebody to stop watching? I disaggre with you but I don't tell you to go kiss Gary's butt do I?

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06-08-2009, 05:21 PM
  #112
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Originally Posted by Haymaker View Post
Uhhhh, Canadian Dollar Equalization Plan?



Yeah, he has all sorts of legal experience.



I suggest you just stop watching the NHL ... not only because you hate Gary's league for no particular reason, but also because the league doesn't need 'fans' like you.


The NHL needs every fan it can get, whether they are in Phoenix, Hamilton, Flin Flon, or Birmingham, Alabama.

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06-08-2009, 05:39 PM
  #113
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Mod Note: We are getting really tired of just editing and deleting posts. Consider this your warning that we've had enough of the personal attacks, as articulate and veiled as some of them may be, they are still flaming, bashing, and generalizations intended to demean or insult an individual or group. Please desist. Any questions/comments about this should be handled by PM only. Thank you.

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06-08-2009, 05:42 PM
  #114
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Are you really that clueless? Where were Quebec and Winnipeg's brand new arenas and 30 year leases? Not to mention owners that could afford to pay for teams that would lose money every year no matter what because the markets were just too small?

Pretty big difference between those markets and Phoenix. Stop trying to compare two different eras of the NHL. The league outgrew those markets. Be happy Canada has the 6 teams it has left.
Sorry, I wouldn't agree with you at all. The league moved from those markets due to factors that were in play at that time. Several major hindrances to success in those markets are now gone.

Winnipeg has built a new arena and has ownership willing to step up and own a team.

QC doesn't have everything yet, BUT one of the issues back then was that Canadian governments would not finance or build facilities for sports. Today that has changed. The Habs got public funds and apparently Balsillie has assurances from Hamilton or the Ontario Provincial Government that they will re-allocate $150 million in infrastructure funds on Copps. If this can happen in Montreal and Hamilton, who is to say it can't happen in QC or anywhere else in Canada.

You are right about one thing, times have changed and certainly Winnipeg is a more viable market than it was in 1996, and QC stands to become a better market as well.

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06-08-2009, 07:23 PM
  #115
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Do you have any evidence to support the bolded part of your claim. This is something we hear all the time but no one seems to be able to back it up. Would the NHL experience a net gain in fans if they moved Calgary and Edmonton to KC and Vegas.

The issue is not where you will create "more fans" but the value to the league of a broad footprint in the US.
Theres no way to know how many fans you could create but based on numbers the potential is greater in a US city than a CAN city, lets say 50% of people in Hamilton are NHL fans (its probably alot higher than that) and lets say 10% of people in Pheonix are NHL fans theres potential to make 50% of ppl in Hamiltion NHL fans and potential to make 90% of people in Pheonix NHL fans, and obviously 90% of pheonix is more than 50% of hamilton so theres a higher potential for more fans. Theres people that will never support hockey everywhere so you wont get 90% and 50% but you have no way of knowing how many people would or wouldnt be a fan.

If they moved any team anywhere they would lose fans especially if they moved CAN teams, im not suggetsing moving any teams anywhere however an expansion team in KC would have the potential to create more new fans than an expansion team in (insert CAN city) simply bc theres more ppl to convert. In the long run they could potentially produce more fans in KC or LV but theres no way of knowing, it works the same both ways nobody can prove that moving the teams you mention would cost the league fans, i think they would lose fans if they did that but theres no way of actually knowing

The league cant create a broader footprint unless the number of fans grows which means the league has to grow. The league will never grow if they move all strugling teams to CAN cities or just get rid of the teams like many ppl want to see.

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06-08-2009, 10:26 PM
  #116
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I wonder what the NFL, NBA and MLB think of Bettman.

Under his leadership, the NHL's stonewalling of, and refusal to allow Balsillie into the "club" has the potential to turn the entire sporting world upside down. Maybe if he were facing jail time they might view him in a more positive light (after all, they've demonstrated that on numerous occasions) but he's made his fortune honestly. His business acumen can't be questioned. Everything he's touched has turned to gold. Why on earth would they not let someone like that in?

Jim Balsillie is not going away. He has very deep pockets and a passion for the game that few owners can rival (Mr. Wang? the Teacher's Pension Fund? Give me a break). Bettman's stubborn stance against Jim is, despite what he says, personal. The guy wants a team. He's willing to clear up the mess in Phoenix, and although it may be painful for the dozens of true fans there (relax...it's just sarcasm, there's 6 or maybe 7,000...not enough), it's clear to everyone by now that they can't support a team. There hasn't even been one poster on this thread from Phoenix. Doesn't that tell us something?

If the judge rules in Balsillie's favour, this will open up a can of worms that will have repercussions throughout every sports league. The pragmatic thing to do would be to find a way to let the guy have his team in southern Ontario (expansion, relocation...whatever) and make this legal challenge go away. It's not a risk worth taking, and I wonder if behind the scenes, the big guys (i.e. NFL) are pressuring Bettman to make peace with him. This is much bigger than just the NHL.

If Jim wins, it will probably be the end of Gary Betttman: Pride cometh before a fall.

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06-08-2009, 10:40 PM
  #117
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I wonder what the NFL, NBA and MLB think of Bettman.

Under his leadership, the NHL's stonewalling of, and refusal to allow Balsillie into the "club" has the potential to turn the entire sporting world upside down. Maybe if he were facing jail time they might view him in a more positive light (after all, they've demonstrated that on numerous occasions) but he's made his fortune honestly. His business acumen can't be questioned. Everything he's touched has turned to gold. Why on earth would they not let someone like that in?

Jim Balsillie is not going away. He has very deep pockets and a passion for the game that few owners can rival (Mr. Wang? the Teacher's Pension Fund? Give me a break). Bettman's stubborn stance against Jim is, despite what he says, personal. The guy wants a team. He's willing to clear up the mess in Phoenix, and although it may be painful for the dozens of true fans there (relax...it's just sarcasm, there's 6 or maybe 7,000...not enough), it's clear to everyone by now that they can't support a team. There hasn't even been one poster on this thread from Phoenix. Doesn't that tell us something?

If the judge rules in Balsillie's favour, this will open up a can of worms that will have repercussions throughout every sports league. The pragmatic thing to do would be to find a way to let the guy have his team in southern Ontario (expansion, relocation...whatever) and make this legal challenge go away. It's not a risk worth taking, and I wonder if behind the scenes, the big guys (i.e. NFL) are pressuring Bettman to make peace with him. This is much bigger than just the NHL.

If Jim wins, it will probably be the end of Gary Betttman: Pride cometh before a fall.
The MLB, NFL, and NBA all sent letters to the bankruptcy court judge in support of the NHL.

If jim wins it wont be the end of bettman, bettman answers to the BOG and if they had an issue with bettman they would have already stepped in and given the team to balsillie, but the BOG doesnt want jim to have the team which is why bettman is fighting so hard, So GB is doing what his bosses want him to do which means he wont be getting fired over this.

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06-08-2009, 10:53 PM
  #118
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The MLB, NFL, and NBA all sent letters to the bankruptcy court judge in support of the NHL.

If jim wins it wont be the end of bettman, bettman answers to the BOG and if they had an issue with bettman they would have already stepped in and given the team to balsillie, but the BOG doesnt want jim to have the team which is why bettman is fighting so hard, So GB is doing what his bosses want him to do which means he wont be getting fired over this.
Of course that's their public stance. We should expect nothing else.

If you re-read my post, you'll see that I said "I wonder if behind the scenes..."

This is much, much bigger than just the Coyotes, Gary Bettman, Jim Balsillie, or the BOGs. If Jim wins, it will affect the entire sporting industry. Is keeping a money-losing team in Phoenix for a couple more years worth it? Even if Balsillie loses and somebody else buys it, the team will move, probably to KC (if the NYI don't end up there) or Las Vegas.

Both of those scenarios are okay with Bettman, but Hamilton isn't.

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06-08-2009, 11:13 PM
  #119
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Of course that's their public stance. We should expect nothing else.

If you re-read my post, you'll see that I said "I wonder if behind the scenes..."

This is much, much bigger than just the Coyotes, Gary Bettman, Jim Balsillie, or the BOGs. If Jim wins, it will affect the entire sporting industry. Is keeping a money-losing team in Phoenix for a couple more years worth it? Even if Balsillie loses and somebody else buys it, the team will move, probably to KC (if the NYI don't end up there) or Las Vegas.

Both of those scenarios are okay with Bettman, but Hamilton isn't.
must have over looked the behind the scenes part sorry

yes it will largely affect all four major sports, but that doesnt affect GB job at all so in the end he will still keep his job.

If JB losses and the team stays in PHO then i dont see the new owner trying to move the team bc they would still have to pay the $700M for breaking the lease (unless the court grants the bankruptcy and eliminates that contract but award the team to someone else but nobody is fighting for this outcome). And maybe the NHL does a similiar deal to the ATL one where under the terms of the deal the team has to stay in PHO for X years.

Under the NHL discussion theres a topic about an email that GB sent back in april about being ok with the team going to Winipeg but would rather have an expansion team in hamilton, and since this was a private email that was never meant to be public and since it was well before moyes' filling it would seem like GB isnt against HAM having a team just against relocating a team there and against JB having a team.

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06-09-2009, 12:41 AM
  #120
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PS: Ottawa Senator tickets are available for $19.50, plus you get a free big mac or cheeseburger/small fries. Guess Ottawa decided to migrate to the sunbelt while we weren't looking?

Please tell me I'm reading this wrong? Those tickets are bought for FULL price by sponsors and resold as a family pack as a marketing tool.

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06-09-2009, 12:53 AM
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Originally Posted by GSC2k2 View Post
Sorry, but that situation is the same as the way "free" tickets are distributed in the south. Putting aside the fact that, in the circumstances you cite, the tickets are not "paid for twice" (it is only once), a company (like Smirnoff) buys tickets and sells them with their product. THe team gets revenue.

Bottom line, tickets in Ottawa are available for effectively $15 (the price less the value of a big mac). Not full price, as the poster expressly stated above. Just like in the "sunbelt". 'Nuff said.

Canadian hockey brains are shorting out all over the place over that one, I imagine.
Nope, I'd suggest working in a ticket office before making outlandish comments like this.

But since you don't I'll give you an example. The Ottawa Sun buys 1000 tickets at FULL price, for that they are allowed to put up their logo and call the seats whatever they want, they then sell the tickets through Capital tickets at whatever price they want to charge

The other example would be (I'm going to use an old team not to flame any of the small markets) The KC Scouts and Denny's team up for a 4 tickets and 4 entree dinner for 89.99, if those tickets are not sold in the package, the tickets remain UNSOLD because Denny's has not bought the tickets. The team partnered with Denny's for promotional purposes and Denny's would get a cut (the price of the entrees) back for packages sold.

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Last edited by Fourier: 06-09-2009 at 05:09 AM.
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06-09-2009, 06:32 AM
  #122
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QC doesn't have everything yet, BUT one of the issues back then was that Canadian governments would not finance or build facilities for sports. Today that has changed. The Habs got public funds and apparently Balsillie has assurances from Hamilton or the Ontario Provincial Government that they will re-allocate $150 million in infrastructure funds on Copps. If this can happen in Montreal and Hamilton, who is to say it can't happen in QC or anywhere else in Canada.
The bolded is incorrect. Unless this happened recently. The Bell Centre (then the Molson Centre) was built with 100% private funds. The Habs campaigned for years to get the city to lower their disgusting property taxes, which were somewhere around $11 million, more than all 24 US teams paid combined. I don't remember hearing any type of break there.

The government has been willing (of late) to pay for sports venues, but typically they have to be linked to universities (new football stadium in Quebec) or some type of international bid, like Hamilton's involvement for the bid for the Pan-Am games. The Copps renovations will likely go through regardless, but funds have already been set aside for infrastructure improvements, basically a stimulus package from all levels of government. So Hamilton might get a renovated Copps Coliseum instead of a new highway or ballet theatre.

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06-09-2009, 06:52 AM
  #123
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Theres no way to know how many fans you could create but based on numbers the potential is greater in a US city than a CAN city, lets say 50% of people in Hamilton are NHL fans (its probably alot higher than that) and lets say 10% of people in Pheonix are NHL fans theres potential to make 50% of ppl in Hamiltion NHL fans and potential to make 90% of people in Pheonix NHL fans, and obviously 90% of pheonix is more than 50% of hamilton so theres a higher potential for more fans. Theres people that will never support hockey everywhere so you wont get 90% and 50% but you have no way of knowing how many people would or wouldnt be a fan.

If they moved any team anywhere they would lose fans especially if they moved CAN teams, im not suggetsing moving any teams anywhere however an expansion team in KC would have the potential to create more new fans than an expansion team in (insert CAN city) simply bc theres more ppl to convert. In the long run they could potentially produce more fans in KC or LV but theres no way of knowing, it works the same both ways nobody can prove that moving the teams you mention would cost the league fans, i think they would lose fans if they did that but theres no way of actually knowing

The league cant create a broader footprint unless the number of fans grows which means the league has to grow. The league will never grow if they move all strugling teams to CAN cities or just get rid of the teams like many ppl want to see.
I think you are buying into what I beleive is a significant misconception that most Canadians actively care about the NHL. I would say that far fewer than 50% of the people in any Canadian cities are "NHL fans" though part of the problem is defining what you mean by a fan.

Growing up in Edmonton, a city with a rich hockey history, it was clear how much impact the Oilers joining the league had on generating interest amongst so many that would otherwise have seldom given a second thought to the NHL. I knew far more "Oiler fans" than I did people who were NHL fans in general. Even now, you would have a very hard time living in the City without having the Oilers in your face. They dominate local media, including radio and tv. There is Oiler merchandise for sale all over town. My 85 year old mother listens to every Oiler game on the radio and even has an Oiler jersey. Before the Oilers came to town I don't remember her ever watching a single NHL game.

Canadian cities are becoming far more international. An ever larger portion of the population has no natural connection with the game. But a local team, and the publicity it brings does make a difference. There are plenty of potential converts. Moreover, it is not clear at all to me that the higher profile an NHL team has in a Canadian city over the non-traditional markets in the US would not trump population size when it comes to generating new fans.

Fianlly, you mention that if they moved a team they would lose fans, especially a Canadian team. This seems to contradict your premise that the NHL would gain more new fans in a US city than in a Canadian city.

I still say that the question of where you get more new fans is a red herring. Bettman knows this. The NHL wants a broad footprint in the US because it feels it is in its best longterm interests. The reality is that one fan in Phoenix is worth more to the league than one fan in Hamilton. That I don't personally like Bettman is besdie the point. He is simply following the league's business plan.


Last edited by Fourier: 06-09-2009 at 07:01 AM.
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Old
06-09-2009, 03:05 PM
  #124
Gump Hasek
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Originally Posted by Crazy_Ike View Post
Who are you to say he did nothing to help them out? You know nothing to support that....


I think some of you deniers think that the league should have funded Winnipeg and Quebec City indefinitely, just because they are Canadian cities.
All fine and good save for the fact that the NHL NEVER funded either Winnipeg or QC to the tune of dime one, contrary to Phoenix now being funded via revenue sharing to the tune of many millions of dollars annually. If you cannot see the difference there, you aren't looking hard enough.

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06-09-2009, 04:59 PM
  #125
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Originally Posted by Fourier View Post
I think you are buying into what I beleive is a significant misconception that most Canadians actively care about the NHL. I would say that far fewer than 50% of the people in any Canadian cities are "NHL fans" though part of the problem is defining what you mean by a fan.

Growing up in Edmonton, a city with a rich hockey history, it was clear how much impact the Oilers joining the league had on generating interest amongst so many that would otherwise have seldom given a second thought to the NHL. I knew far more "Oiler fans" than I did people who were NHL fans in general. Even now, you would have a very hard time living in the City without having the Oilers in your face. They dominate local media, including radio and tv. There is Oiler merchandise for sale all over town. My 85 year old mother listens to every Oiler game on the radio and even has an Oiler jersey. Before the Oilers came to town I don't remember her ever watching a single NHL game.

Canadian cities are becoming far more international. An ever larger portion of the population has no natural connection with the game. But a local team, and the publicity it brings does make a difference. There are plenty of potential converts. Moreover, it is not clear at all to me that the higher profile an NHL team has in a Canadian city over the non-traditional markets in the US would not trump population size when it comes to generating new fans.

Fianlly, you mention that if they moved a team they would lose fans, especially a Canadian team. This seems to contradict your premise that the NHL would gain more new fans in a US city than in a Canadian city.

I still say that the question of where you get more new fans is a red herring. Bettman knows this. The NHL wants a broad footprint in the US because it feels it is in its best longterm interests. The reality is that one fan in Phoenix is worth more to the league than one fan in Hamilton. That I don't personally like Bettman is besdie the point. He is simply following the league's business plan.

Regardless of the actuall percentage of fans there are there is no doubt that there is more people in PHO that arent hockey fans than there are in HAM, so theres a higher potential for new fans in PHO than HAM, the 50% was just throwing out a number i have no idea what the actual percent would be.

By NHL fan i meant some one who follows at least one team but since i was talking about cities that dont have a team i couldnt really mention a team.

I think you misunderstood what i was saying, i dont want any team to move regardless of where they are located or the number of fans, in my earlier post i said "not suggetsing moving any teams anywhere however an expansion team..." I was saying an expansion team in larger city could create more fans than an expansion team in a smaller city, basing this on the pop size. I never said anything about moving a team.

I agree with you, thats what i was saying in my original post that the NHL is looking at long term revenue not short term.

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