HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Metropolitan Division > Philadelphia Flyers
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

Draft Day -- PRONGER ACQUIRED (details in post #857)

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old
06-08-2009, 06:23 PM
  #26
Jester
Registered User
 
Jester's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: St. Andrews
Country: Scotland
Posts: 34,075
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyHigh View Post
I made an extraordinarily long-post about this in the rumors thread, so I'll try to sum it up here.

A) Briere's money goes to J-Bouw, so you still lose JVR/Giroux in 2 years.
I would like Briere gone regardless, so not really a problem with that. JVR will be signed for three years, and Giroux's money will be contingent on other developments.

Quote:
B) Still no flexibility, doesn't improve our cap situation.
But does it improve our team? I think so.

Quote:
C) Knuble will be retired/not here in 1-2 years.
Erm...okay.

Quote:
D) Lupul is as good as gone.
Should be gone anyway.

Quote:
E) Forward top-6 in 2 years if we sign J-Bouw. Richie, Carter, Gagne, Hartnell, Giroux. Assume we deal JVR. That's 5 guys.
So, someone else steps up from the minors or you sign a veteran. This is how everyone operates, not everyone has the glut of forwards we've had the past two seasons, in fact it's bizarre how many good young forwards we've had.

Quote:
F) Wings have 10 forwards averaging 12 minutes or more in the postseason I believe (essentially 9 now that Datsyuk's back).
We had 9 this postseason.

Quote:
G) We'd have 5 in that scenario.
In that scenario, minutes would be going to other players...some you can possibly identify, and some you cannot as of now.

Quote:
H) We're already in big trouble on forward depth and after JVR/Giroux, we have no prospects outside of Nodl and Maroon and Matsumoto who can't even play AHL defense.
Right now we have ridiculous forward depth if you look around the league. I'm not sure what league you've been watching. What we have, however, is an unbalanced set of forwards that aren't necessarily good at playing the different roles you need forwards to play. We need a bit less offense, and a bit more checking/grinding ability as we go down the depth chart.

Quote:
I) No depth. If one of those 5 guys goes down, you're looking at playing 2 AHLers/2 grinders top-6 minutes.
Welcome to a salary cap league...and you seriously need to re-evaluate your dire predictions about the top 6 as we move forward here. So, sure, Bouwmeester gets Briere's money...but who gets Lupul's? Who gets Carle and Jones' money (both of whom would likely be gone)?

Assuming you can move Briere, there is far more flexibility here than you're allowing.

Jester is offline  
Old
06-08-2009, 06:24 PM
  #27
ph
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Wilmington, DE
Posts: 246
vCash: 500
If we sign JBO it would have to be for Timonen like money so all we would really need to do is dump 1 of Carle/Jones for a conditional pick although dumping both would probably be ideal for next year. Doing this should get us under the cap without moving anyone else. Realistically, if JBO commands more than Timonen money we are out of the running.

Also, if we were able to sign JBO we would most definitely field a top pairing of Timonen-JBO.

ph is offline  
Old
06-08-2009, 06:43 PM
  #28
Phunhog
Registered User
 
Phunhog's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 526
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by chimrichalds18 View Post
rather have beauchemin as discussed in other threads, but i've got no control over the situation so it's wait and see
I agree wit you.

Phunhog is offline  
Old
06-08-2009, 06:58 PM
  #29
GKJ
Global Moderator
Entertainment
 
GKJ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Do not trade plz
Country: United States
Posts: 109,949
vCash: 5792
I'm not down for long contract like some of the ones we've given out, but if you sign Jay Bouwmeester for 6 or 7 years, with Timonen signed for another 4, there's not much to not think about that. Two bona fide #1 defensemen, both of whom would take the pressure off each other. A lot of our rivals, if not all of them, would kill to have two guys like Timonen and Bouwmeester.

GKJ is offline  
Old
06-08-2009, 07:15 PM
  #30
Mr Oysterhead
Registered User
 
Mr Oysterhead's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: West Chester, PA
Posts: 1,502
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by go kim johnsson 514 View Post
I'm not down for long contract like some of the ones we've given out, but if you sign Jay Bouwmeester for 6 or 7 years, with Timonen signed for another 4, there's not much to not think about that. Two bona fide #1 defensemen, both of whom would take the pressure off each other. A lot of our rivals, if not all of them, would kill to have two guys like Timonen and Bouwmeester.
Agreed. I may shed a tear if we can make this happen. I'm prepared to lose just about anyone, outside of Richie and Giroux, if we were to make this happen. JBo is a stud.

Mr Oysterhead is offline  
Old
06-08-2009, 07:16 PM
  #31
FlyHigh
Registered User
 
FlyHigh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 28,156
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to FlyHigh Send a message via MSN to FlyHigh
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jester View Post
Welcome to a salary cap league...and you seriously need to re-evaluate your dire predictions about the top 6 as we move forward here. So, sure, Bouwmeester gets Briere's money...but who gets Lupul's? Who gets Carle and Jones' money (both of whom would likely be gone)?

Assuming you can move Briere, there is far more flexibility here than you're allowing.
Coburn gets Lupul's, Carle's and Jones' would have to go towards signing a decent goalie plus a probable raise for Parent. Also, if Carter has another couple 40 goal seasons (likely), he's in for a significant raise.

As I pointed out in my other post, pretend you sign J-Bouw for 7 million. Kimmo + Coburn (4.5-5 mill) + J-Bouw is roughly 18 million.

Now you add the 5 forwards, Gagne + Richie + Carter + Hartnell + Giroux (say 3 mill for him). That's 23.2 mill.

So that's 41 mill on those 8 players. You still don't have a goalie and you still don't have a full top-6.

Fine, let's pretend we trade for Harding. Guess who's an RFA after next year? So we either trade for Harding and he plays really well and signs a short-term deal for 4 million for 2 years or something like Biron did so he can prove he's an NHL starter (so we have to pay him after 2 years) or he crashes and burns.

Of the guys that played 12 mins or more for us last year, Briere, Lupul, and Knuble would be all gone and I'm personally not thrilled about playing Darroll Powe 14 minutes per night as a 3rd line anchor.

You say replace those guys with prospects, what prospects? Nodl can't play NHL defense, Maroon is a top-6 or bust type guy, Matsumoto can't play AHL defense. After JVR and Giroux, we have a dearth of solid offensive prospects, particularly the consistent 3rd line guys like Upshall.

I mean, you are looking to sign one veteran to play the top-6, 1 goalie, and an entire bottom-6. With 12 million dollars at best.

Good luck.

FlyHigh is offline  
Old
06-08-2009, 07:19 PM
  #32
RIPRichardsCarter
Registered User
 
RIPRichardsCarter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 2,954
vCash: 500
I get why we would go after JBo, he's a great player and all that, but is he really what we need? We are constantly talking about how we need a more physical defensive defenseman in our lineup. Almost all of our current dmen are puck movers. I understand he would be a HUGE upgrade, but at what cost? We will likely lose key players (shedding cap) and not be able to sign key players in the future by signing him. In my opinion, I say no thanks to JBo.

RIPRichardsCarter is offline  
Old
06-08-2009, 07:25 PM
  #33
Ychocky
Registered User
 
Ychocky's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Ottawa, ON
Country: Canada
Posts: 309
vCash: 500
See this is the thing, I can target to nail Jessica Alba all I want. Doesn't mean it's going to happen.

The Flyers can target whoever they ****ing feel like, doesn't mean it's going to happen.

Ychocky is offline  
Old
06-08-2009, 07:31 PM
  #34
Mr Oysterhead
Registered User
 
Mr Oysterhead's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: West Chester, PA
Posts: 1,502
vCash: 500
Is no one else ok with the idea that we could lose Coburn or Timonen if we sign JBo? It's pretty much a consensus wherever you go that JBo is a top ten defender in the league right now. I would definitely put Timonen in my top 10, but I know others wouldnt, so we'll say he's around the bottom/fringe of the top 10. Coburn wasn't a top 10 defenseman last year. He had moments of brilliance but he lacked consistency.

I'm totally fine with

Bouwmeester - Timonen
Parent - Sbisa

Bouwmeester - Coburn
Parent - Sbisa

as our top 4 for 2010-11. Bouwmeester would be a big upgrade to this team. If we have to lose someone else, so be it.

Mr Oysterhead is offline  
Old
06-08-2009, 07:33 PM
  #35
BobbyClarkeFan16
Registered User
 
BobbyClarkeFan16's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: London Ontario
Country: Canada
Posts: 7,895
vCash: 500
I still don't see Bouwmeester coming here. There's just too much that Holmgren has to do in order to clear space. People seem to think that clearing cap space is as easy as waving a wand. Fact is, other teams know the Flyers are in cap trouble and you can bet that teams are going to want incentives to take on a big contract. What's the incentive for a team to take on Lupul's contract or Carle's or Briere's? Nothing.

We're stuck. It's easy to blame it on bad cap management, but I think that guaranteed contracts are the biggest problem in the sport. And you can bet that come next CBA, guaranteed contracts will be a thing of the past.

BobbyClarkeFan16 is offline  
Old
06-08-2009, 07:34 PM
  #36
Mr Oysterhead
Registered User
 
Mr Oysterhead's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: West Chester, PA
Posts: 1,502
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ychocky View Post
See this is the thing, I can target to nail Jessica Alba all I want. Doesn't mean it's going to happen.

The Flyers can target whoever they ****ing feel like, doesn't mean it's going to happen.
It's more like, you can target a lap dance from a hot stripper all you want, but if you don't have the $$, it's not going to happen or you are going to suffer consequences from HQ.

JBo is not as unattainable to the Flyers as Alba to you or I. It's all about the money.

Mr Oysterhead is offline  
Old
06-08-2009, 07:38 PM
  #37
TheDrizzle81
Registered User
 
TheDrizzle81's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Marlton NJ
Country: United States
Posts: 5,357
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to TheDrizzle81
Book it. Not happening

TheDrizzle81 is offline  
Old
06-08-2009, 07:40 PM
  #38
Randall Graves*
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Country: United States
Posts: 18,622
vCash: 500
I think Jay-Bo has the potential to be this summer's version of Brian Campbell. He is a very talented d-man, but when the chips were down towards the end of the season in Florida, he was not exactly their best player. He is also a very introverted individual, wich makes one wonder at times how he would respond playing a big market. I predict he will be signed to a Campbell like contract, and the team that does it will regret it.

Randall Graves* is offline  
Old
06-08-2009, 07:46 PM
  #39
mercury
Registered User
 
mercury's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: South Philly/SoCal
Country: United States
Posts: 11,097
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyHigh View Post
Coburn gets Lupul's, Carle's and Jones' would have to go towards signing a decent goalie plus a probable raise for Parent. Also, if Carter has another couple 40 goal seasons (likely), he's in for a significant raise.

As I pointed out in my other post, pretend you sign J-Bouw for 7 million. Kimmo + Coburn (4.5-5 mill) + J-Bouw is roughly 18 million.

Now you add the 5 forwards, Gagne + Richie + Carter + Hartnell + Giroux (say 3 mill for him). That's 23.2 mill.

So that's 41 mill on those 8 players. You still don't have a goalie and you still don't have a full top-6.

Fine, let's pretend we trade for Harding. Guess who's an RFA after next year? So we either trade for Harding and he plays really well and signs a short-term deal for 4 million for 2 years or something like Biron did so he can prove he's an NHL starter (so we have to pay him after 2 years) or he crashes and burns.

Of the guys that played 12 mins or more for us last year, Briere, Lupul, and Knuble would be all gone and I'm personally not thrilled about playing Darroll Powe 14 minutes per night as a 3rd line anchor.

You say replace those guys with prospects, what prospects? Nodl can't play NHL defense, Maroon is a top-6 or bust type guy, Matsumoto can't play AHL defense. After JVR and Giroux, we have a dearth of solid offensive prospects, particularly the consistent 3rd line guys like Upshall.

I mean, you are looking to sign one veteran to play the top-6, 1 goalie, and an entire bottom-6. With 12 million dollars at best.

Good luck.
Harding is an RFA as of THIS July 1st. He should be signed around $2-2.5 million per until he hits UFA.

mercury is offline  
Old
06-08-2009, 07:50 PM
  #40
FlyHigh
Registered User
 
FlyHigh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 28,156
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to FlyHigh Send a message via MSN to FlyHigh
Quote:
Originally Posted by mercury View Post
Harding is an RFA as of THIS July 1st. He should be signed around $2-2.5 million per until he hits UFA.
Yeah you're right, it's hard for me to think of next year as 09-10 for some reason. 2010 is the year I'm graduating, so I guess I try not to think about it.

FlyHigh is offline  
Old
06-08-2009, 08:02 PM
  #41
lancer247
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 3,005
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaktus View Post
http://www.thefourthperiod.com/news/phi090608a.html




Made me so happy I will copy paste the whole thing. Bouwmeester is exactly what this club needs.

Trade Carle and Lupul, waive Jones. This is doable!

Timonen Coburn
Bouwmeester Sbisa
Parent Alberts/Vaananen/ anyone else for 1M a year.

I hope Homer will get it done.
it's hard to argue against getting a guy like jbo...that said it seems like you would start a domino affect where every year you were struggling to keep key players because so much of your team was wrapped in a few players.

i would feel more comfortable doing that if jbo had played his ass off this season and carried his team into the playoffs at least. quite the opposite, he really faded down the stretch. in my opinion. if you want to argue that point fine but you would have a hard time arguing that was even FLA's best player down the stretch.

if we are going to pony up that kind of loot for a dman, possibly at the risk of disrupting the rest of the team for several years then you need to assure me we are getting larry robinson and not bob daley.

lancer247 is offline  
Old
06-08-2009, 08:03 PM
  #42
Jester
Registered User
 
Jester's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: St. Andrews
Country: Scotland
Posts: 34,075
vCash: 500
Before we begin, lets make one obvious point that you don't seem to consider. Bouwmeester ONLY makes sense if you swap his salary for Briere's. That's it. That's the only way this would conceivably make any sense as a move.

If, as I know is the case with you, you do not believe Briere is going anywhere...then the fascinating part of your complaint about acquiring Bouwmeester is that ALL of the problems you're describing will be exactly the same, except we'll just have Briere: a one-dimensional forward who will likely be able to play less and less minutes in the coming years as he gets older. As opposed to a young D, who is improving, and will likely eat 25 minutes a night for the duration of the contract that we are talking about.

Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyHigh View Post
Coburn gets Lupul's,
That would make Coburn a 5.5M defenseman, which I haven't seen from him as of yet. He's not strong enough offensively to justify that raise, and is still working on his defensive game. I would offer him 3 years at 3-3.5M (a very nice raise) at the end of this contract, which would lead to him expiring as a UFA the same year Timonen's contract is done.

If he is demanding something in the 5.5M range, I would trade him to someone willing to pay it and look for a younger, cheaper D in return.

Again, there are very few players on this roster I am not willing to sacrifice to bring in a player like Bouwmeester, and Coburn isn't one of the safe ones.

Quote:
Carle's and Jones' would have to go towards signing a decent goalie plus a probable raise for Parent.
Carle and Jones' salaries are ~6.2M combined. They would have absolutely no problem covering both of those things and likely have a bit of change left over.

Quote:
Also, if Carter has another couple 40 goal seasons (likely), he's in for a significant raise.
This is a problem no matter what you do unless you move Briere...it's also why I think we are almost definitely going to lose one of Gagne or Giroux that summer (if not Carter).

Quote:
As I pointed out in my other post, pretend you sign J-Bouw for 7 million. Kimmo + Coburn (4.5-5 mill) + J-Bouw is roughly 18 million.
Well, I will be a bit impressed if Bouwmeester gets that much in the current economic market. I might hesitate at 7M, but we would have to see. However, I also don't really have any problem in investing that much in players I would expect to be playing 25 minutes a night for this club.

That's 18M towards players who will play almost 50% of games for you...you're getting something for your money here.

Quote:
Now you add the 5 forwards, Gagne + Richie + Carter + Hartnell + Giroux (say 3 mill for him). That's 23.2 mill.
OK...

Quote:
So that's 41 mill on those 8 players. You still don't have a goalie and you still don't have a full top-6.
Well, we've paid for a goalie with Carle and Jones' money, so we have a goalie.

Quote:
Fine, let's pretend we trade for Harding. Guess who's an RFA after next year? So we either trade for Harding and he plays really well and signs a short-term deal for 4 million for 2 years or something like Biron did so he can prove he's an NHL starter (so we have to pay him after 2 years) or he crashes and burns.
Quote:
Of the guys that played 12 mins or more for us last year, Briere, Lupul, and Knuble would be all gone and I'm personally not thrilled about playing Darroll Powe 14 minutes per night as a 3rd line anchor.
Why would you have a problem giving a smart, fast player 14 minutes a night? Now, I don't think Powe should be getting a third line shift, but he is a guy I expect to see getting minutes on the PK and filling in up lines because he can keep up and plays smart.

Quote:
You say replace those guys with prospects, what prospects? Nodl can't play NHL defense, Maroon is a top-6 or bust type guy, Matsumoto can't play AHL defense. After JVR and Giroux, we have a dearth of solid offensive prospects, particularly the consistent 3rd line guys like Upshall.
Quote:
I mean, you are looking to sign one veteran to play the top-6, 1 goalie, and an entire bottom-6. With 12 million dollars at best.
Well, Sbisa is going to be one of our top 6, and that's only 875K. You have a perfectly reasonable bottom pairing guy in Alberts on this team this past season at only 1.25M. So there's your bottom pairing for a little over 2M in salary, leaving you 10M to spend.

Look, as the world flattens this is how you're going to have to construct teams. By relying on some prospects to step up and fill roles when their number is called, and finding bottom pairing D, and bottom-6 forwards on nice contracts.

However, give me a defense that features Timonen and Bouwmeester and you have a D that is going to erase a LOT of the problems you might see develop. The thing about a solid D-corps is that they make EVERYONE else on the team better. You got a 4th line that is a mess? Well, they look a lot better with two all-world D standing behind them.

Of course, I don't think any of this is actually going to work out for us...but that doesn't mean it isn't something Holmgren should try to make happen.

Jester is offline  
Old
06-08-2009, 08:05 PM
  #43
Jester
Registered User
 
Jester's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: St. Andrews
Country: Scotland
Posts: 34,075
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rebel Banker View Post
it's hard to argue against getting a guy like jbo...that said it seems like you would start a domino affect where every year you were struggling to keep key players because so much of your team was wrapped in a few players.

i would feel more comfortable doing that if jbo had played his ass off this season and carried his team into the playoffs at least. quite the opposite, he really faded down the stretch. in my opinion. if you want to argue that point fine but you would have a hard time arguing that was even FLA's best player down the stretch.

if we are going to pony up that kind of loot for a dman, possibly at the risk of disrupting the rest of the team for several years then you need to assure me we are getting larry robinson and not bob daley.
Well, the counterpoint would be that he carried them for a nice stretch there in the spring...and it's no shock that a guy playing 27 minutes a night faded down the stretch...

Jester is offline  
Old
06-08-2009, 08:11 PM
  #44
phlocky
Registered User
 
phlocky's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 6,143
vCash: 500
Well hell, if we are going for a full overhaul of the team lets carry it to the nth degree:

1st, Homer has said that he intends to seriously upgrade the defense. We now have reports that the team is targeting J-bo. Lets assume the 2 are correct and everything goes as plans. TRADE AND DEAL: To Fla - Matt Carle (solid 2nd line puck moving dman capable of QB'ing the PP); To Phi - rights to J-Bo and 2009 2nd or 3rd (Carle is probably wirth more than just his rights), Flyers resign Boumeester to a 6 year/40 mil deal (6.67 mil per year ave).

2nd, trade Lupul to Minny for Harding and 2009 3rd. Yes I know everybody has been saying that it would be the Flyers sending the pick to Minny but lets be honest, Lupul is established and Harding isn't, history of recent trades shows that Lupul has more value than Harding in a trade. We can argue this point later if anyone wants.

3rd, there have been serious rumors of the Kings, Habs and Leafs being interested in Briere to be their top line center. Trade him to one for a 3rd line player and a 2nd rnd pick in 2010.

4th, sign Phalsson to a 2 year, 4 mil deal (2 mil/season). He'd be great as a 3rd line center who wins faceoffs. I think that 2 mil per year would be at the upper end of the offers he'll get.

5th, resign Knuble for 2 years, 4 mil.

6th, resign Alberts to 2 years, 3.5 mil (1.75 mil per year).

Flyers team:


Gagne - Richards - Knuble
Hartnell - Carter - Giroux
Asham/Carcillo - Phalsson - (3rd liner from Briere trade)
Cote - Powe - Carcillo/Asham

Timonen - Coburn
J-Bo - Parent
Jones - Alberts

Emery - Harding

Approximately 53 mil for the above lineup (figured 2 mil for the 3rd liner in Briere deal)

We can then trade two of the four 3rds we have in this years draft for a 2nd this year. We have one 1st, one 2nd, two 3rds, and whatever after that this year. JVR spends the year in the AHL, Backlund spends the year in the AHL and is Hardings backup in 2010/11, Sbisa is returned to juniors for this year. Jones is let go after the year and replaced with Sbisa. Alberts leaves after the 2010/11 season and is replaced with Marshall. Hey, we get J-bo and upgrade the defense just like Homer said. We consider the goalie situation secondary just like Homer said he would. We clear Briere's and Lupul's salaries to fit all the other moves we had to make in under the cap.

phlocky is offline  
Old
06-08-2009, 08:13 PM
  #45
Haute Couturier
Registered User
 
Haute Couturier's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Philadelphia
Country: United States
Posts: 5,972
vCash: 500
Jester hits the nail on the head here. We're already in cap hell with Briere, how will we be any worse off allocating Briere's cap space to Bouwmeester?

As for Coburn we can take him to arbitration for a 2 year deal if it comes down to it. He's not getting some ridiculous huge offer, not in this economic climate.

Haute Couturier is offline  
Old
06-08-2009, 08:21 PM
  #46
FlyHigh
Registered User
 
FlyHigh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 28,156
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to FlyHigh Send a message via MSN to FlyHigh
I don't think Briere will move, but there's no harm in discussing the possibility even if it's extremely unlikely and the J-Bow-Briere discussions do mesh together obviously.

On to your points.

A) Sbisa is going to be making significantly more than 875K in a couple years unless he busts.

B) I posted on Coburn in another thread and I think he took the sweetheart deal with the understanding that the Flyers would take care of him. If he has a solid year this year, I'd expect a 4.5-5 million deal, so you have 500K left over. I think that bringing in Bouwmeester means you have to deal Coburn after 09-10 and keep in mind you're likely paying J-Bouw 2 mill more than you would pay Coburn.

C) Figure Carle's + Jones' salaries for goalie and Carter raise and maybe some for Parent.

D) If Campbell got 7.1, J-Bouw is going to get 7 even with the economy, the Leafs would definitely offer him that and I think they have the cap space to do it.

E) A problem with your perfect little scenario is that you're assuming injuries don't happen. The problem is that injuries do happen and that when they do with J-Bouw's salary, we're going to have no depth on the offensive end. Like I said, if any of those 5 forwards get hurt, we're up a creek without a paddle.

F) Powe is a 4th liner who can play PK. I like him, I don't like him playing 14 minutes per night.

G) My biggest concern isn't the 4th line, it's the 3rd line. In today's NHL, I really think you need 3 solid lines to win. Detroit's had that the last 2 years and so has Pittsburgh.

I would personally take Coburn + our D and 3 solid lines as opposed to Bouwmeester + our D and 2 solid lines.

The difference in salaries between Coburn and J-Bouw is likely 2 mill which buys you a very good 3rd line C.

This may not quite line up from the talent standpoint, but I take Coburn and Malholtra for our team ahead of Bouwmeester.

You can have an all-world D top-4, but you're going to have a fairly average 3rd pairing and that 3rd pairing is going to spend a lot of time on the ice with the 3rd line, that's just the nature of hockey.

FlyHigh is offline  
Old
06-08-2009, 08:27 PM
  #47
bodangleroo28
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 412
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Libertine View Post
Jester hits the nail on the head here. We're already in cap hell with Briere, how will we be any worse off allocating Briere's cap space to Bouwmeester?
Were in cap hell with Briere because he is a luxury and not a need, Bouwmeester fills a need in upgrading our D

bodangleroo28 is offline  
Old
06-08-2009, 08:37 PM
  #48
Jester
Registered User
 
Jester's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: St. Andrews
Country: Scotland
Posts: 34,075
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyHigh View Post
I don't think Briere will move, but there's no harm in discussing the possibility even if it's extremely unlikely and the J-Bow-Briere discussions do mesh together obviously.

On to your points.

A) Sbisa is going to be making significantly more than 875K in a couple years unless he busts.
Then you make a decision between him and someone else...I don't need to spend a lot of money on a third pairing defenseman. If Sbisa is #4, then move someone else.

Quote:
B) I posted on Coburn in another thread and I think he took the sweetheart deal with the understanding that the Flyers would take care of him. If he has a solid year this year, I'd expect a 4.5-5 million deal, so you have 500K left over. I think that bringing in Bouwmeester means you have to deal Coburn after 09-10 and keep in mind you're likely paying J-Bouw 2 mill more than you would pay Coburn.
Coburn did not take a sweetheart deal...he hadn't even played a full NHL season when he signed that contract. And given that you spent half the season *****ing about his play, I'm shocked your debating with me that he deserves more.

I really don't expect signing Coburn to a three year deal at a reasonable number to be too much of a problem unless he really shows some offense next year...if he shows some offense, then you have an interesting problem. However, as a RFA, I don't think he would complain too much with a 3-year 10.5M deal.

Quote:
C) Figure Carle's + Jones' salaries for goalie and Carter raise and maybe some for Parent.
Okay...both are overpaid for what they do anyway.

Quote:
D) If Campbell got 7.1, J-Bouw is going to get 7 even with the economy, the Leafs would definitely offer him that and I think they have the cap space to do it.
Maybe, but remember that all the guys that bankroll the idiocy of the last few years...just got f'd up the ass by the markets since last summer. This isn't a matter of GMs wisening up, it's a matter of ownership telling them they can't afford the spending that we've seen.

And the Leafs are a rebuilding team that may not even have Kaberle at that point...I doubt we're going to see Bouwmeester sign up for that scenario this summer.

Quote:
E) A problem with your perfect little scenario is that you're assuming injuries don't happen. The problem is that injuries do happen and that when they do with J-Bouw's salary, we're going to have no depth on the offensive end. Like I said, if any of those 5 forwards get hurt, we're up a creek without a paddle.
Watch the NFL much? What happens in the NFL when players get hurt? Either you're f'd, or some young player needs to step up and fill the spot. As the world flattens in the NHL, that is your injury insurance policy, young players on your club and in your system.

Quote:
F) Powe is a 4th liner who can play PK. I like him, I don't like him playing 14 minutes per night.
It's easy to get to 14 a night if you're a smart player and getting out there on the PK.

Quote:
G) My biggest concern isn't the 4th line, it's the 3rd line. In today's NHL, I really think you need 3 solid lines to win. Detroit's had that the last 2 years and so has Pittsburgh.
So, you spend less on your third pairing than we are now...and Detroit and Pittsburgh are both unique and teams we aren't going to be able to replicate despite your best efforts. We aren't going to have anyone in Staal's class, nor are we in the gravy train as far as the salary cap that Detroit has been experiencing the last few years (and is about to come to a halt).

Quote:
I would personally take Coburn + our D and 3 solid lines as opposed to Bouwmeester + our D and 2 solid lines.
I don't think this binary is necessarily the definite you assume it is.

Quote:
The difference in salaries between Coburn and J-Bouw is likely 2 mill which buys you a very good 3rd line C.
And is money that can come out of some other roster spot.

Quote:
This may not quite line up from the talent standpoint, but I take Coburn and Malholtra for our team ahead of Bouwmeester.
Seriously, who are you? When did FlyHigh start thinking Coburn was this great?

Quote:
You can have an all-world D top-4, but you're going to have a fairly average 3rd pairing and that 3rd pairing is going to spend a lot of time on the ice with the 3rd line, that's just the nature of hockey.
I'm sorry, were you not the one ragging on the third pairings of the Red Wings and Pens a little bit ago?

Jester is offline  
Old
06-08-2009, 08:46 PM
  #49
mm6492
Registered User
 
mm6492's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 8,518
vCash: 500
Trade Carle
Trade Lupul
Waive/Trade Jones

How much salary is that.

mm6492 is offline  
Old
06-08-2009, 08:47 PM
  #50
mm6492
Registered User
 
mm6492's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 8,518
vCash: 500
I would also split up Timonen and J-Bo. Put Parent w/ one, and Coburn with the other one

Timonen-Coburn
Bouwmeester-Parent

mm6492 is offline  
Closed Thread

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:15 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.