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Draft Day -- PRONGER ACQUIRED (details in post #857)

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Old
06-08-2009, 11:38 PM
  #76
GoneFullHextall
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Originally Posted by dr.rosenrosen View Post
blair betts would be good pick up. i'd still love to have dominic moore but as someone said before he wants to much money that's why the leafs traded him.
If Betts doesnt resign with the Rangers I think he goes to Edmonton. He was one of Renney's favorites when he was there.

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06-08-2009, 11:52 PM
  #77
Terence Peterman
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Oh, just gonna throw out a thought that popped into my head just now and might be of interest to this fan base and our team, in particular

A knock I've seen on Bouwmeester is he isn't overly effective on the power play, that most of his damage comes at even strength. But think of that-- a defenseman as talented as Bouwmeester on our team, who plays his best when we've collectively played our worst.

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06-09-2009, 12:10 AM
  #78
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Originally Posted by sa cyred View Post
Everyone is putting Coburn with Timonen. I'm telling you right now, to start the season, if we get jbo, it will be

Timonen-Bouwmeester
Coburn-xxx
xxx-xxx
Nah, I would leave Timonen-Parent as a pairing, and Coburn-Bouwmeester, the great advantage of having two players like Bouwmeester and Timonen is that they can carry two different pairings...thus giving you two stellar defensive pairings, rather than one.

They're all going to play a ton of minutes...

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06-09-2009, 12:13 AM
  #79
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Originally Posted by FlyHigh View Post
Exactly, it was an extraordinarily dumb deal to sign seeing as he was in the middle of a breakout season, why would he do that? Makes absolutely no sense unless something happened behind the scenes.
Just ignoring the rest here...you think it was an "extraordinarily dumb deal" for Coburn to sign...an unproven, young defenseman playing the first full NHL season of his career. That was an extremely fair offer, and he wasn't going to do better as a free agent at that point...and gambling with guaranteed millions in front of you on getting yourself more the rest of the way is a bit of a stretch. Coburn played fantastic down the stretch for that club, but you're gettin way ahead of yourself with Coburn's contracts here.

He has yet to show any real offensive flair other than developing a one-timer he can show off every once in a while.

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06-09-2009, 12:32 AM
  #80
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First, I'm confused how Powe is a 4th liner but Carcillo and Asham are 3rd liners? First of all Carcillo would have to stay out of the box before he could be penciled in on any line. Doesn't matter where you put him because somebody else is going to end up taking most of his shifts. And Asham has never been anything but a 4th liner.

Secondly, JBo is a clear upgrade to any defender on our roster not named Timonen. I find it hard to believe Briere would want out if we are upgrading a team that is already a legit contender. Moving Carle and Jones for conditional picks is all we would have to do to free up enough space for JBo this year. We save 4.8 mil by letting Knuble walk and signing Emery for 2 mil less than Biron made this year. We can fill in 3 spots with Nodl, Sbisa, and Backlund for 2.5 mil. Carle's 3.45 mil plus Jones 2.75 mil plus the 2.3 mil in savings leaves 8.4 mil for JBo and another FA defenseman presumably Alberts for close to what he made this year. JBo will have to take less to go to a contender as most are tight against the cap. Obviously he could command much more if he wants to go to rebuilding franchise.

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06-09-2009, 01:11 AM
  #81
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Originally Posted by ph View Post
First, I'm confused how Powe is a 4th liner but Carcillo and Asham are 3rd liners? First of all Carcillo would have to stay out of the box before he could be penciled in on any line. Doesn't matter where you put him because somebody else is going to end up taking most of his shifts. And Asham has never been anything but a 4th liner.
I guess you have never seen Carcillo or Asham play. They can play both a 3rd line and 4th line role. The only reason why Carcillo is in the box sometimes is because he was fighting somebody. The other times was because he was agitating folks and taking the opposing team player with him to the box. Asham have you seen his hands and how he played this season?? Powe, Asham and Carcillo can play a 3rd and 4th line role.




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Secondly, JBo is a clear upgrade to any defender on our roster not named Timonen. I find it hard to believe Briere would want out if we are upgrading a team that is already a legit contender. Moving Carle and Jones for conditional picks is all we would have to do to free up enough space for JBo this year. We save 4.8 mil by letting Knuble walk and signing Emery for 2 mil less than Biron made this year. We can fill in 3 spots with Nodl, Sbisa, and Backlund for 2.5 mil. Carle's 3.45 mil plus Jones 2.75 mil plus the 2.3 mil in savings leaves 8.4 mil for JBo and another FA defenseman presumably Alberts for close to what he made this year. JBo will have to take less to go to a contender as most are tight against the cap. Obviously he could command much more if he wants to go to rebuilding franchise.
Letting Knuble walk will be a fatal mistake. Knuble is one of the old wily vets that glues this team together. Also to the point that you say moving Jones and Carle for conditional picks. Sorry that is not going to happen. You think a team is going to toss draft picks at players with bad contracts??? No we are simply going to have to get ***** on deals just so we can shed cap. There are few teams that would take some of these contracts without throwing some cap back us.

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Old
06-09-2009, 01:18 AM
  #82
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Originally Posted by Alchemy View Post
I guess you have never seen Carcillo or Asham play. They can play both a 3rd line and 4th line role. The only reason why Carcillo is in the box sometimes is because he was fighting somebody. The other times was because he was agitating folks and taking the opposing team player with him to the box. Asham have you seen his hands and how he played this season?? Powe, Asham and Carcillo can play a 3rd and 4th line role.
Not all together...that would be awful. I'd take one of them on my 3rd line in a regular role (most likely Powe). Preferably, the three of them make up our 4th line to start the season.

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06-09-2009, 01:46 AM
  #83
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Originally Posted by Alchemy View Post
Letting Knuble walk will be a fatal mistake. Knuble is one of the old wily vets that glues this team together.
Okay, lets slow down. I would like to see Knuble back if the money works, but if losing Knuble is "fatal" to this team, then we weren't going anywhere anyway.

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06-09-2009, 02:06 AM
  #84
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Originally Posted by Jester View Post
Okay, lets slow down. I would like to see Knuble back if the money works, but if losing Knuble is "fatal" to this team, then we weren't going anywhere anyway.
Well, yes bad choice of words. But you can't deny this team was missing more of veteran presence in the locker room this season.. Getting rid of one of the few vets we have on this team is dumb IMO.

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06-09-2009, 02:10 AM
  #85
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Originally Posted by Dig Out Your Soul View Post
Not all together...that would be awful. I'd take one of them on my 3rd line in a regular role (most likely Powe). Preferably, the three of them make up our 4th line to start the season.
Not all together but what i am saying is they can play on different lines. I would honestly want us to get a defensive center man that can win us faceoffs this off-season to be the third line center. Like other posters on the board i would like to see us go after Betts. I remember making a thread complaining about faceoffs and a lot of posters blew it off saying it wasn't a big deal. We got killed in faceoffs against the pens. It seems like people don't understand that faceoffs = puck possession.

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06-09-2009, 07:32 AM
  #86
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Originally Posted by Alchemy View Post
Not all together but what i am saying is they can play on different lines. I would honestly want us to get a defensive center man that can win us faceoffs this off-season to be the third line center. Like other posters on the board i would like to see us go after Betts. I remember making a thread complaining about faceoffs and a lot of posters blew it off saying it wasn't a big deal. We got killed in faceoffs against the pens. It seems like people don't understand that faceoffs = puck possession.
Do you want Betts or a faceoff specialist? They're two very different things. Betts might be a great guy on the penalty kill but he'd be more of the same as far as faceoffs go for us.

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06-09-2009, 07:36 AM
  #87
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Originally Posted by Alchemy View Post
I guess you have never seen Carcillo or Asham play. They can play both a 3rd line and 4th line role. The only reason why Carcillo is in the box sometimes is because he was fighting somebody. The other times was because he was agitating folks and taking the opposing team player with him to the box. Asham have you seen his hands and how he played this season?? Powe, Asham and Carcillo can play a 3rd and 4th line role.






Letting Knuble walk will be a fatal mistake. Knuble is one of the old wily vets that glues this team together. Also to the point that you say moving Jones and Carle for conditional picks. Sorry that is not going to happen. You think a team is going to toss draft picks at players with bad contracts??? No we are simply going to have to get ***** on deals just so we can shed cap. There are few teams that would take some of these contracts without throwing some cap back us.
Of course I've watched them play. I'm also not stuck in the 1970s. Carcillo is a joke. He is not in the box "sometimes." He is in the box more than any other player in the league. If all you want to do is throw Carcillo out there so he takes somebody off the ice with him, that is the role of a 4th liner. Asham shows good hands and 3rd line ability once every 15 games. Lupul shows 1st line sniper talent once every 10 games. Does that make Lupul a 1st liner? I don't care what a player's potential or what they show once every so often. If there is only one 3rd line spot open and it's between those 3 I put Powe on the 3rd line because he brings his game on a more consistent basis and is basically Upshall with less scoring but also fewer penalties taken.

Knuble's veteran presence is easily replaced by Gagne. If losing Knuble kills this team then we aren't good anyway.

If the conditional picks are 4th/5th rounders that could become 3rd/4th rounders depending on performance, team's record, whether or not the team can resign them (Jones), etc. it would not be hard to find a team willing to take the chance. They are both still young. The only reason we are trading them is because we are upgrading them to JBo. We may only need to move one of them. Carle being the best for us. Jones being the easiest due to contract length.

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Old
06-09-2009, 07:50 AM
  #88
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Originally Posted by Sonny View Post
Do you want Betts or a faceoff specialist? They're two very different things. Betts might be a great guy on the penalty kill but he'd be more of the same as far as faceoffs go for us.
Betts is better than anybody on our roster that takes faceoffs.

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06-09-2009, 08:03 AM
  #89
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Originally Posted by Jester View Post
Nah, I would leave Timonen-Parent as a pairing, and Coburn-Bouwmeester, the great advantage of having two players like Bouwmeester and Timonen is that they can carry two different pairings...thus giving you two stellar defensive pairings, rather than one.

They're all going to play a ton of minutes...
Still, Parent with JBo would be one of the most mobile pairings in the league, and Kimmo and Coby are a not bad second pairing.

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06-09-2009, 08:05 AM
  #90
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Originally Posted by Alchemy View Post
Betts is better than anybody on our roster that takes faceoffs.
Agreed, Betts would be a great checking C. The question is, is his face OK?

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Old
06-09-2009, 08:07 AM
  #91
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Originally Posted by ph View Post
Of course I've watched them play. I'm also not stuck in the 1970s. Carcillo is a joke. He is not in the box "sometimes." He is in the box more than any other player in the league. If all you want to do is throw Carcillo out there so he takes somebody off the ice with him, that is the role of a 4th liner. Asham shows good hands and 3rd line ability once every 15 games. Lupul shows 1st line sniper talent once every 10 games. Does that make Lupul a 1st liner? I don't care what a player's potential or what they show once every so often. If there is only one 3rd line spot open and it's between those 3 I put Powe on the 3rd line because he brings his game on a more consistent basis and is basically Upshall with less scoring but also fewer penalties taken.
Carcillo also has some offensively ability. If you break down his penalty minutes most of it is from fighting. You are acting as if he is a 34 year old bum. Let the guy get settled and play a full year in philly then judge him. Basically what i am saying is he can play a 3rd or 4th line role. Obviously you didn't understand my point. Asham i would want on the 4th line the majority of the time. But he can come in and fill a 3rd line role if someone was to get hurt. Lupul?? I don't care about Lupul because i want him gone anyways. I agree with you on Powe. I hope John dummy Stevens will make his role as a 3rd line center. The only knock i have on Powe is his faceoffs. But that can be said for all of our centers.

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Knuble's veteran presence is easily replaced by Gagne. If losing Knuble kills this team then we aren't good anyway.
Knubles veteran presence is unappreciated and underrated. Listen to Homers video when he talks about Knuble. He says he is a glue guy. This team lacks vets. Especially on the blueline(Outside Kimmo). We have a good core group of young forwards and defenseman.

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If the conditional picks are 4th/5th rounders that could become 3rd/4th rounders depending on performance, team's record, whether or not the team can resign them (Jones), etc. it would not be hard to find a team willing to take the chance. They are both still young. The only reason we are trading them is because we are upgrading them to JBo. We may only need to move one of them. Carle being the best for us. Jones being the easiest due to contract length
I have no problems with Jones. Carle and Lupuls contracts need to be moved asap. But what you are not understanding is teams are going to hold us ransom for these cap dump trades. I highly doubt any team would trade conditional draft picks for the contracts these players have that we are suggesting to be move. Not in this economic climate.

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06-09-2009, 08:13 AM
  #92
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Originally Posted by Larry44 View Post
Agreed, Betts would be a great checking C. The question is, is his face OK?
Not sure. I haven't heard any reports about how he is doing.

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06-09-2009, 08:17 AM
  #93
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lupul's cap hit is 4.25 starting next year

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06-09-2009, 08:19 AM
  #94
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lupul's cap hit is 4.25 starting next year
Which is a problem. I never thought much of him. Even when he was first traded here. I don't like his work ethic.

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06-09-2009, 08:24 AM
  #95
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Originally Posted by Jester View Post
Just ignoring the rest here...you think it was an "extraordinarily dumb deal" for Coburn to sign...an unproven, young defenseman playing the first full NHL season of his career. That was an extremely fair offer, and he wasn't going to do better as a free agent at that point...and gambling with guaranteed millions in front of you on getting yourself more the rest of the way is a bit of a stretch. Coburn played fantastic down the stretch for that club, but you're gettin way ahead of yourself with Coburn's contracts here.

He has yet to show any real offensive flair other than developing a one-timer he can show off every once in a while.
It was a dumb deal. I believe Coburn signed the normal .942 million entry level deal that both Carter and Richards were on.

He had a fairly solid start to the year as well, I think he signed his new deal around the end of November. Even if things didn't pan out as well as he wanted them to, he was still pretty much guaranteed 1 mill or so.

Look at Eminger who had a really crappy 07-08 (making 1 mill) and signed a 1 mill deal for 08-09.

So he knows he basically has that 1 mill guarantee. However, if you wait till the end of the year and play well, you could probably angle for at least 2 mill, even as an RFA. I think Coburn had 38 points and was a +17 that year, so he had a pretty solid one.

So basically, even if Coburn stank up the joint, he would still be able to sign a 1 year 1 million dollar deal and if he played well, he could have been making in excess of 2 mill. Why would you sign a 1.3 per year deal?

I mean, I remember most of us saying that was an excellent deal for the Flyers at the time, one of the few good ones Holmgren has negotiated, and that hasn't really changed.

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06-09-2009, 08:38 AM
  #96
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Betts is better than anybody on our roster that takes faceoffs.
He was at 49.3% this past season and 50.3% last year. Nothing to really write home about.

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06-09-2009, 08:38 AM
  #97
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Depends on the level of overhaul Holmgren finds himself capable of enacting. If he can find deals for Briere and Lupul, then I would like Bouwmeester. If he can't, then I would rather waive Jones and bring in someone of the middle-tier ilk.
I'm with you. This team does not need another super long expensive contract. While I would love to have Bouwmeester, it is not worth putting the team in Cap problems for the next 10 years. We could have Bouwmeester, Carter, Richards, Timmonen, Hartnell and Briere under contract for 45 million and use the remaining ten mil to sign the rest of a roster! We could get Neil Little as goalie maybe. That'd make us a winner!

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06-09-2009, 09:02 AM
  #98
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anyone have any idea how much he'll be seeking? brian campbell got 7.1 per year from the hawks last year and i think we can all agree that JBO is a better player and should and probably will ask for more on the open market.

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06-09-2009, 09:08 AM
  #99
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Originally Posted by Jester View Post
Nah, I would leave Timonen-Parent as a pairing, and Coburn-Bouwmeester, the great advantage of having two players like Bouwmeester and Timonen is that they can carry two different pairings...thus giving you two stellar defensive pairings, rather than one.

They're all going to play a ton of minutes...
Im telling what Stevens would do. If you go out, and we win J-bo,you think Steven's/Homer will say to him. "Now you can hold our second pairing". If anything, the first couple games will have a Kimo-Jbo pairing.

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06-09-2009, 09:09 AM
  #100
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Originally Posted by shamski7 View Post
anyone have any idea how much he'll be seeking? brian campbell got 7.1 per year from the hawks last year and i think we can all agree that JBO is a better player and should and probably will ask for more on the open market.
i think he'll get something around what campbell got. he's a better player, but GMs are starting to get more cautious about doling out large contracts (well, hopefully homer gets the memo). with the economy the way it is and the cap likely to drop in the future, JBo is likely to get less than what he's expecting.

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