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Stamkos+ for NYI pick

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Old
06-08-2009, 10:36 PM
  #26
ecemleafs
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to me, stamkos will be the better player than tavares, so even if tampa thought tavares was a bit better, why would they give up the 32nd pick in this draft to get tavares...

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06-08-2009, 11:23 PM
  #27
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stamkos is an all-round better player, offensively they are pretty close but if you factor in defense it's not close

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06-09-2009, 12:31 AM
  #28
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Why trade a proven commodity for an unproven one? If the Lightning make this deal, they will be getting two top prospects at forward and defense (Tavares/Hedman...duh). But they already the top prospect forward who's proven he can be successful in the league. Tavares has a ton of potential to be a great player, but no player is bust proof. Besides, if the Lightning are looking for franchise players at both positions they're obviously after Hedman... so why not just swap picks with the Isles to guarantee getting Hedman instead of having to go through a rookie season with Tavares who may need time to learn the pro game like Stamkos did?

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06-09-2009, 12:37 AM
  #29
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Theres no way in hell Tampa Bay would ever consider doing this.

I've seen many bad trade proposals in this forum, but this one just might be the worst ever.

Its a terrible idea, it doesn't make any sense whatsoever, and I'm not sure why this thread even still exists.

Quote:
Originally Posted by LeafsGetTavares View Post
To the NYI: Steven Stamkos, 2009 2nd round pick (TB)

To TBL:NYI 1st round pick 2009

What do you guys think?

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Old
06-09-2009, 12:44 AM
  #30
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no need for the Lightning to make this trade.

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06-09-2009, 12:55 AM
  #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Hockey Hitman View Post
Theres no way in hell Tampa Bay would ever consider doing this.

I've seen many bad trade proposals in this forum, but this one just might be the worst ever.

Its a terrible idea, it doesn't make any sense whatsoever, and I'm not sure why this thread even still exists.
you guys are all nuts 23 goals and 46 points do not a star make on a team with quite a bit of offensive talent. the Isles have far less and I'll guarantee Tavares does better as a rookie. now watch all the losers coming out making excuses for Stamkos. but I'll tell you this if he was as good as you all think you wouldnt need to make excuses now would you? how good could he be if they had Vinny and St Louis and Malone and Stamkos and just beat out the Isles who had DiPietro for all of 2 games. go ahead now go and make your excuses for Stamkos now

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06-09-2009, 01:24 AM
  #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Isles_Guy View Post
you guys are all nuts 23 goals and 46 points do not a star make on a team with quite a bit of offensive talent. the Isles have far less and I'll guarantee Tavares does better as a rookie. now watch all the losers coming out making excuses for Stamkos. but I'll tell you this if he was as good as you all think you wouldnt need to make excuses now would you? how good could he be if they had Vinny and St Louis and Malone and Stamkos and just beat out the Isles who had DiPietro for all of 2 games. go ahead now go and make your excuses for Stamkos now
Why are you so defensive? There's no excuses for Stamkos last year, he wasn't quite ready for the NHL and needed some coaching and time to learn the pro game...like 99% of the players who play in the NHL. Once he got that, he showed why he was the top pick. It could be the same for Tavares. There's a reason why a guy like Crosby is so rare. It's hard for 18 year olds to come in the league and make an impact from day one no matter what offensive talent is around him. It's a huge jump from the OHL to the NHL as an 18 year old. Most guys need at least another year in juniors and some time in the AHL before becoming a regular in the NHL. It's the best hockey league for a reason. If Tavares does better, good for him. Stamkos needed time to adjust and it took him half a season. Could be more for Tavares, could be less, could be the same amount of time. No one knows for sure.

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Old
06-09-2009, 01:29 AM
  #33
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make it stamkos and #2 overall and we have a deal.

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06-09-2009, 01:43 AM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hockeyfan02 View Post
Why are you so defensive? There's no excuses for Stamkos last year, he wasn't quite ready for the NHL and needed some coaching and time to learn the pro game...like 99% of the players who play in the NHL. Once he got that, he showed why he was the top pick. It could be the same for Tavares. There's a reason why a guy like Crosby is so rare. It's hard for 18 year olds to come in the league and make an impact from day one no matter what offensive talent is around him. It's a huge jump from the OHL to the NHL as an 18 year old. Most guys need at least another year in juniors and some time in the AHL before becoming a regular in the NHL. It's the best hockey league for a reason. If Tavares does better, good for him. Stamkos needed time to adjust and it took him half a season. Could be more for Tavares, could be less, could be the same amount of time. No one knows for sure.
see i knew the excuses would be flying. I was just making a point that Stamkos has proven nothing. let him do something before annointing him...Tavares was better in his first two years in the OHL in goals and assists by a wide margin all the while being almost a year younger than Stamkos and yet people act like Stamkos is proven? Kyle Okposo was just as good as Stamkos when you account for the offensive context of where and who they played with.

let Stamkos show something before you say he's all that. the only league stamkos played in that Tavares has had an opportunity in Tavares outplayed him period.

so why should something be added for Stamkos? when Tavares was better at a younger age....explain that one again


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06-09-2009, 01:57 AM
  #35
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Tavares right now is where Stamkos was last year before the draft, in terms of development.

At the beginning of the year, Stamkos struggled, badly, after having pretty much every stereotypical bad thing happening to great prospect happen to him (being showcased and rushed, Melrose being a dumbass, management ******** everywhere forever, etc.). However, he busted his ass like few players do to get better and was a completely different player by the end.

Tavares will most likely be in the same boat. However, I have far more doubts about Tavares's work ethic and ability than I have of Stamkos's. You see good prospects mature the way Stamkos has on Detroit, maybe. Not on Tampa Bay ****ing Lightning.

If Tavares is the next Mike Bossy, Stamkos is the next Steve Yzerman. Personally, I'd take Yzerman. And Tavares more than likely isn't the next Mike Bossy.

No ****ing way Tampa does this even if they're the ones getting a 2nd round pick back.

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06-09-2009, 02:01 AM
  #36
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Quote:
you guys are all nuts 23 goals and 46 points do not a star make
sup yoda?

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06-09-2009, 02:11 AM
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alex28 View Post
Tavares right now is where Stamkos was last year before the draft, in terms of development.

At the beginning of the year, Stamkos struggled, badly, after having pretty much every stereotypical bad thing happening to great prospect happen to him (being showcased and rushed, Melrose being a dumbass, management ******** everywhere forever, etc.). However, he busted his ass like few players do to get better and was a completely different player by the end.

Tavares will most likely be in the same boat. However, I have far more doubts about Tavares's work ethic and ability than I have of Stamkos's. You see good prospects mature the way Stamkos has on Detroit, maybe. Not on Tampa Bay ****ing Lightning.

If Tavares is the next Mike Bossy, Stamkos is the next Steve Yzerman. Personally, I'd take Yzerman. And Tavares more than likely isn't the next Mike Bossy.

No ****ing way Tampa does this even if they're the ones getting a 2nd round pick back.
Alex check your stats Tavares was better at 15 and 16 than Stamkos was at 16 and 17 and Tavares has a better work ethic than Stamkos... dont forget who Stamkos was playing with. Stamkos is a better skater certainly but he's got a long way to go to be Yzerman.
all I keep hearing are excuses for the kid as I said let him do it before you annoint him

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06-09-2009, 02:13 AM
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by danishh View Post
2nd ROUND pick

the idea seems to be so Tampa can have Tavares and Hedman.
personally i would rather have Stamkos, Hedman, and whoever is picked with the 32nd overall.
Me too. Anyone who has seen Stamkos play this year can tell you he'll be a real deal. Tavares is the best talent and most talked about prospect since Crosby but we have seen 'can't miss' projects flame out before. I'll take Tavares-lite in Stamkos (assuming Tavares pans out), Hedman and whoever comes with pick 32 in deep deep draft...

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Old
06-09-2009, 02:32 AM
  #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Isles_Guy View Post
you guys are all nuts 23 goals and 46 points do not a star make on a team with quite a bit of offensive talent. the Isles have far less and I'll guarantee Tavares does better as a rookie. now watch all the losers coming out making excuses for Stamkos. but I'll tell you this if he was as good as you all think you wouldnt need to make excuses now would you? how good could he be if they had Vinny and St Louis and Malone and Stamkos and just beat out the Isles who had DiPietro for all of 2 games. go ahead now go and make your excuses for Stamkos now
You can't guarantee Tavares will be better than Stamkos, which is the exact reason Tampa does not do this trade. You don't know if he'll come in and light it up, or struggle a little bit. With Stamkos, he's already played a full season in the NHL and played on Canada's team for the WHC.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Isles_Guy View Post
see i knew the excuses would be flying.
What excuses are you talking about?
Quote:
I was just making a point that Stamkos has proven nothing. let him do something before annointing him...Tavares was better in his first two years in the OHL in goals and assists by a wide margin all the while being almost a year younger than Stamkos and yet people act like Stamkos is proven?
They are plenty of kids in the OHL who tore it up at the junior level, and then didn't do as well when they start facing a harder challenge in the NHL. Who cares if Tavares was better in the OHL than Stamkos, that doesn't mean he will automatically be better than him in the NHL. Stamkos is proven because he has not only shown he can handle playing at the NHL level, but also be pretty good at it too.

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Old
06-09-2009, 02:48 AM
  #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Isles_Guy View Post
Alex check your stats Tavares was better at 15 and 16 than Stamkos was at 16 and 17 and Tavares has a better work ethic than Stamkos...
On what grounds?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Isles_Guy View Post
all I keep hearing are excuses for the kid as I said let him do it before you annoint him
A) Stamkos hasn't done anything that needs excusing.
B) The same could be said of your evaluations of Tavares.

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Old
06-09-2009, 02:53 AM
  #41
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Originally Posted by TheDaysOf 04 View Post
You can't guarantee Tavares will be better than Stamkos, which is the exact reason Tampa does not do this trade. You don't know if he'll come in and light it up, or struggle a little bit. With Stamkos, he's already played a full season in the NHL and played on Canada's team for the WHC.


What excuses are you talking about?

They are plenty of kids in the OHL who tore it up at the junior level, and then didn't do as well when they start facing a harder challenge in the NHL. Who cares if Tavares was better in the OHL than Stamkos, that doesn't mean he will automatically be better than him in the NHL. Stamkos is proven because he has not only shown he can handle playing at the NHL level, but also be pretty good at it too.
no one can guarantee anything but tavares has already outplayed Stamkos at a younger age so its not like he hasnt done it already.
Stamkos hasnt proven nothing yet. Okposo in a far worse offensive context scored more on a per game basis than Stamkos did. Thats a fact. and you know that Stamkos was in a much better offensive context.

Tavares hasnt had a chance yet in the NHL but he sure handed Stamkos his lunch in the leagues they did both play in and at a younger age. I'd say based on that chances are pretty good Tavares will do it again

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06-09-2009, 02:56 AM
  #42
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Tavares >>>>>>>>>> Stamkos

I'll go out on a limb here:

Not only will Tavares best Stamkos' rookie season (23G, 23A) ...

He will also best Stamkos offensively THIS season. (*barring injury)


If Tavares isn't better than Stamkos, I'll drink a litre of raw sewage. Mark my words.

I predict at least 70 points from Tavares.

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06-09-2009, 02:59 AM
  #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by I am The Mush View Post
On what grounds?




A) Stamkos hasn't done anything that needs excusing.
B) The same could be said of your evaluations of Tavares.
on the grounds that in the only league that they played in together Tavares out played him not only did he out play him but he did it on a much worse team and at a younger age

and Stamkos stunk up the joint for half the year at the NHL level
Kyle Okposo out played Stamkos the 2nd half of the year

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06-09-2009, 03:29 AM
  #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Burt the Dog View Post
I'll go out on a limb here:

Not only will Tavares best Stamkos' rookie season (23G, 23A) ...

He will also best Stamkos offensively THIS season. (*barring injury)


If Tavares isn't better than Stamkos, I'll drink a litre of raw sewage. Mark my words.

I predict at least 70 points from Tavares.
Prepare to be disappointed.

Tavares is maxing out at 25g/35a this season. That's if he has a truly inspired season.

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Old
06-09-2009, 03:41 AM
  #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Isles_Guy View Post
on the grounds that in the only league that they played in together Tavares out played him not only did he out play him but he did it on a much worse team and at a younger age
I was referring to your assertion that Tavares has a clearly superior work ethic. On what grounds did you form this opinion?

Your guess is as good as mine as to which of these two kids has a better career when it is all said and done, so I won't attempt to sway your opinion (though we do disagree). What I will say is that Stamkos has shown enough at the NHL level that there is most likely no way Tampa ever makes this trade.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Isles_Guy View Post
and Stamkos stunk up the joint for half the year at the NHL level
Kyle Okposo out played Stamkos the 2nd half of the year
Stamkos is eighteen. It is damn impressive he didn't stink the joint up for two years. Also, you're bringing up Okposo as if being statistically outperformed by him is some sort of big deal. Okposo is going to be a very good player, and doesn't exactly stink right now. Also where was Okposo playing when he was 19? Was it the NHL?

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06-09-2009, 03:46 AM
  #46
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Tavares may turn out to be better than Stamkos, sure. I don't necessarily believe it, but it could happen. I think the Lightning will still be plenty happy with Stamkos and Hedman. I wouldn't do this trade anyway, but throwing in the 32nd overall pick moves it from unlikely to silly. Why would a team that is as lacking in prospect depth as the TBL trade a pick like that, in a deep draft, for what will probably be only a handful more points a year, if that?

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06-09-2009, 03:46 AM
  #47
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stamkos is going to be better than tavares. makes no sense for tb to do this trade

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06-09-2009, 05:39 AM
  #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Isles_Guy View Post
Kyle Okposo out played Stamkos the 2nd half of the year
Isles, no offence, but I think your judgement is getting a bit clouded here. You have no reason to say Stamkos hasn't proven anything. Sure, his stat line isn't that impressive, but all it took was a look at a few games to see that this kid is the real deal. I can't say enough good things about Stamkos. Kyle Okposo really has nothing to do with this, but I disagree. Stamkos, in the second half of the year, had an impact beyond what he was putting up on the scoresheet. There's times where it seems that kid is everywhere on the ice at the same time. And really, even if we accept what you're saying, there's no shame in getting outplayed by Kyle Okposo.

I have a feeling you might regret investing so much time going to bat for Tavares if Snow takes Hedman first overall.

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06-09-2009, 05:50 AM
  #49
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[QUOTE=Kings man 4 life;19840902]I'd keep Stamkos hands down. Taveres+Hedman is equal to Stamkos and Hedman or damn close too. Waste of a 2nd round pick.[/QUOTE]

This

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Old
06-09-2009, 05:51 AM
  #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Milbury View Post
Stamkos has upside that is higher than any prospect in this draft.

As an Islander fan, I'd love this deal.

Tampa would say no.
I disagree. I think Tavares and Hedman both have more upside than Stamkos. No interest in this deal

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