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Old
06-09-2009, 11:20 AM
  #1
bottleCAPS
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Nylander to KHL?

http://www.examiner.com/x-7375-Washi...itals-Examiner

article in question.

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06-09-2009, 11:25 AM
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Drake1588
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IF (and that is a big IF), but if the Caps shed all three of the Nylander, Fedorov and Kozlov salaries, then yeah... the Caps will be players on UFA markets. Havlat, Bouwmeester, Komisarek... any of the above could be realistic targets at that point, and the Caps ought to be attractive options for those players. With Nylander in the fold, not so much.

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06-09-2009, 11:37 AM
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txpd
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I am not surprised about the KHL Nylander talk. I don't see any way that Nylander could be in the Washington lineup next season. That means the Caps either buy him out, which McPhee has said they won't do, trade him or pay him not to play.

That means the most likely outcome was Nylander taking a check and not getting to play hockey. I dont think that is satisfactory for Nylander either. This is a way out for both Nylander and Washington.

I will say that Siberia is not a step up from Edmonton.

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06-09-2009, 11:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by txpd View Post
I am not surprised about the KHL Nylander talk. I don't see any way that Nylander could be in the Washington lineup next season. That means the Caps either buy him out, which McPhee has said they won't do, trade him or pay him not to play.

That means the most likely outcome was Nylander taking a check and not getting to play hockey. I dont think that is satisfactory for Nylander either. This is a way out for both Nylander and Washington.

I will say that Siberia is not a step up from Edmonton.
The Michael Nylander of 2007 may have been too good for the city of Edmonton, but Siberia is probably too good for the Michael Nylander of 2009.

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06-09-2009, 11:45 AM
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Drake1588
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I don't agree with that line of reasonsing, txpd. If Nylander doesn't find a taker, doesn't reach an agreement with Avangard, or simply decides he wants to stay in North America, then I think the Caps end up having Nylander play his way out of his funk. You can't bench $4.875M under the salary cap.

Ideally, he leaves, plays a ton alongside Jagr and has a great time in Omsk. His salary goes off the salary cap. If they can't ship him off to the KHL, they either need him to be a productive Capital or playing well enough to establish some legitimate NHL trade value.

Paying him not to play isn't a viable option, for the cap implications while this team is trying to compete.

...and assuming that Leonsis is simply going to write off a payroll of the full salary cap + $5.5M is probably presumptuous. It would be nice, but I think it's an unrealistic expectation. Few owners are willing to do that, and I can't say that I blame them.

If Nylander is here, Boudreau needs to find a way to get the most out of him.


Last edited by Drake1588: 06-09-2009 at 12:41 PM. Reason: Mistakenly swapped the 7 and 8 in the Nylander salary
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06-09-2009, 11:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BrooklynCapsFan View Post
The Michael Nylander of 2007 may have been too good for the city of Edmonton, but Siberia is probably too good for the Michael Nylander of 2009.
He wasn't too good for the city of Edmonton, but a better option came up at the last minute (4 years here) and he took it.

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06-09-2009, 11:47 AM
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Originally Posted by txpd View Post
I am not surprised about the KHL Nylander talk. I don't see any way that Nylander could be in the Washington lineup next season. That means the Caps either buy him out, which McPhee has said they won't do, trade him or pay him not to play.

That means the most likely outcome was Nylander taking a check and not getting to play hockey. I dont think that is satisfactory for Nylander either. This is a way out for both Nylander and Washington.

I will say that Siberia is not a step up from Edmonton.
Nylander's wife doesn't have to go to Russia. She could stay in D.C. or Sweden.

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06-09-2009, 12:12 PM
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Langway
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Originally Posted by Drake1588 View Post
You can't bench $4.785M under the salary cap.
Normally, yes, but we've seen little sign this past season that his contract assured him a jersey. Hard to see that changing unless McPhee goes to Boudreau and tells him to bury the hatchet, make a fresh start and simply get more out of him.
Quote:
If Nylander is here, Boudreau needs to find a way to get the most out of him.
No doubt about it. A coach can't just throw up his hands and be done with it. Not when the player is signed for so long, has a NMC and is over 35. It's a situation that has been utterly mismanaged and if Nylander does head to the KHL it would be one massive stroke of luck.

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06-09-2009, 12:28 PM
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"Utterly mismanaged" implies that it has hurt the team on the ice. It clearly has not. It certainly is an issue in the offseason, and the coach doesn't have to do a lot with that.

Some players don't fit some systems. The idea of changing a system that has shown to be successful to keep one expensive player happy isn't one that I could see as reasonable, and classifying not doing that as incompetence on the coaching side of the board elicits the same response.

Nylander doesn't fit the North-South system, and it seems pretty plain that that's true. Expecting Boudreau to change that system to bring out more of Nylander, but possibly less out of other players, is expecting him to take a gamble against things that have worked for the coach in the past. And, so far, the system is working, even if the expensive player isn't. There has been tweaking. There has been playing time. Nylander still isn't fitting and, somehow, is not having any blame cast upon him when he clearly deserves at least some.

If it's Nylander vs. Game 7 of the second round of the playoffs, I take the second round of the playoffs. And it appears that is what the gamble Boudreau (and McPhee, Boudreau didn't sit Nylander on his own) perceives, and so far the Caps have won more with Nylander in the press box than on the ice, regardless of the coach.

I have to admit, the "Blame Boudreau" sentiment that seems to slowly be gaining traction amongst Caps fans surprises me a bit (though not a lot).

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06-09-2009, 12:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marshall View Post
I have to admit, the "Blame Boudreau" sentiment that seems to slowly be gaining traction amongst Caps fans surprises me a bit (though not a lot).
Nothing really surprises me with this bunch anymore.

But yeah, I pretty much agree with you. He was brought in for one system, changed to another after the coaching change, and it didn't work for him. Hardly "utterly mismanaged"...just a bad fit for Nylander under the current situation.

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06-09-2009, 12:47 PM
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Teddy just needs to send an envelope of cash that Omsk can add to what they are offering him to make the deal go through.

Before you jump on me, how much is it worth to the Capitals to have a Havlat or some other legit top six forward take his place in Ovechkin's prime years. A whole lot. We have a window. Ted and GMGM need to fix this Nylander mess.

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06-09-2009, 12:48 PM
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What was, in retrospect, "mismanaged", was the signing in the first place -- 5M long-term for an aging center.

Once they got him, well, not much to do about it. With his injury and lack of production, hard to completely blame GMGM for not being able to trade him.

If he stays and counts against the cap, I agree that the Caps absolutely have to play him. Can't have 10% of the salary cap not pulling its weight..

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06-09-2009, 12:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Efactor View Post
Teddy just needs to send an envelope of cash that Omsk can add to what they are offering him to make the deal go through.

Before you jump on me, how much is it worth to the Capitals to have a Havlat or some other legit top six forward take his place in Ovechkin's prime years. A whole lot. We have a window. Ted and GMGM need to fix this Nylander mess.
As an added bonus, loan them Ovechkin for a month! "Gate attraction".

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06-09-2009, 12:52 PM
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Honeymoon's only last so long. It has appeared to me that Mike Green has been on the edge of getting the Larry Murphy whooping treatment for 6 months and so, its not surprising to me that there are increasing numbers of fans and posters that are starting to blame Boudreau for miscoaching the team.

I was struck by a recent poster here that said that the Caps "...blew the Pens series".
That suggests the poster thought the Caps should have clearly won the series. Its that attitude that has the same fans looking for someone to blame as to why they lost.

In my view the Caps overperformed in earning the 2nd seed and performed up to expectations or above by forcing 7 games in round two this season. I think the course is also now pretty clear. The road to the Cup goes through Pittsburgh and the Penguins have a couple of seasons of developement ahead of the Capitals. Seems to me the Caps gave the Pens more of a fight than their other two playoff opponents in the east.

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06-09-2009, 12:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Efactor View Post
Before you jump on me, how much is it worth to the Capitals to have a Havlat or some other legit top six forward take his place in Ovechkin's prime years. A whole lot. We have a window. Ted and GMGM need to fix this Nylander mess.
Someone like Semin maybe?

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06-09-2009, 01:06 PM
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The Caps have shown that they are now a perennial playoff team, even with Nylander is on the ice.

If he's still around come October:

Play him, make use of the money and give some players the rest that they need for the long haul and the playoffs. Since the team has shown that it doesn't really matter if they have home advantage, as long as they make it in, it doesn't matter too much.

If he gets hurt (not that I wish it upon anyone) then he makes cap room. Nylander isn't going to lose a game for you, but he won't win them for you either. The forward crew and depth this team has more than makes up for it, though.

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06-09-2009, 01:10 PM
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I like Boudreau, but there is a middle ground between flipping idiot and Scotty Bowman. You sit $4.875 million when you have the luxury of doing so. Last season they did it, although it meant they were carrying three top-two centers, playing only two of them, and had no room for any deadline pickups.

GMs focus on a longer term and coaches need to be looking at the shorter term, lest they become ex-coaches, yet there needs to be a partnership, pulling on the same rope.

If Nylander is a Capital, and he's counting as significant money against the cap, then it is money not being spent on veteran defense, and it's money not being spent on another top-six forward. It would behoove the coach to try and get the most out of that player, even if he is an imperfect fit for the overall system. Otherwise he is utterly useless, completely untradeable, and dead weight until 2011. Nylander, of course, would need to step it up in his own right. It's undeniably a coaching challenge, and it might fail, but I'd like to think there is a better method than pretending that the offending player doesn't exist. I don't have a problem with spending all year, and failing, to get much out of Nylander. I might have a problem with dealing with the situation by sitting him for long stretches.

The idea that one is either completely behind a coach or completely against him is far too simplistic.

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06-09-2009, 01:11 PM
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Originally Posted by txpd View Post
Honeymoon's only last so long. It has appeared to me that Mike Green has been on the edge of getting the Larry Murphy whooping treatment for 6 months and so, its not surprising to me that there are increasing numbers of fans and posters that are starting to blame Boudreau for miscoaching the team.

I was struck by a recent poster here that said that the Caps "...blew the Pens series".
That suggests the poster thought the Caps should have clearly won the series. Its that attitude that has the same fans looking for someone to blame as to why they lost.

In my view the Caps overperformed in earning the 2nd seed and performed up to expectations or above by forcing 7 games in round two this season. I think the course is also now pretty clear. The road to the Cup goes through Pittsburgh and the Penguins have a couple of seasons of developement ahead of the Capitals. Seems to me the Caps gave the Pens more of a fight than their other two playoff opponents in the east.
thats abuse, and thats illegal.


i blame BB for not matching lines (like every other NHL coach does) and for not changing the team's game to adapt to what the opponent is doing ( read my dissertation on the forecheck in this thread for details ) ... bottom line is he needs to change the way we handle our own end or these early exits are gonna be the standard.

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06-09-2009, 01:28 PM
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The flipside to not really handling a player all that strategically is that the relationship could reach the breaking point and the player may desperately look to jump ship for a fresh start. That's what we may be seeing here and I'd have to think McPhee and Boudreau would jump for joy at the news. So maybe that's the strategy after all?

But, if these reports don't pan out, clearly something has to change in the dynamics between the player, the team and the coaching staff. The system doesn't need to be changed to the team's overall detriment just to integrate Nylander. But it does need to be refined in a few areas from an execution standpoint and that itself may help everyone including Nylander. Sometimes it's just a matter of how a player is handled personally by the coaching staff and put in a situation to succeed and play with confidence (veteran or not). If he's still around, put him in more of a PP specialist role on the second unit if you have to. Something...because just scratching him isn't tenable. You've got to get something out of that cap room if he's on the books.

Nylander looked decent enough in the pre-season and the early stages of the season but then it just spiraled and it's hard to see the relationship between Boudreau and Nylander being salvageable without something really changing. A fresh start would be needed here, if not elsewhere.

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06-09-2009, 01:35 PM
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But, if these reports don't pan out, clearly something has to change in the dynamics between the player, the team and the coaching staff.
I tend to agree with this. For a guy on a multi-year contract, with some years remaining and a NMC, all parties seem to have gone to some lengths to poison the well. The guy hasn't played well, but man. At some point, you have to think the answer is to have him play his way out of it, and the coaching staff's job is to help foster the kind of contributions you expect from him. Otherwise, he really is nothing more than dead cap space.

That's no answer. That's simply the coaching staff punting the ball back to management and saying, 'u shud learn to play the game n00b.'

If Nylander represents a good chunk of the cards Boudreau is dealt, and hopefully that is not the case, then I'll be interested to see how Boudreau responds.

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06-09-2009, 01:46 PM
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Can one of our CBA experts explain how Nylander's contract is treated if he goes to Russia? The article referenced the Rangers "waiving" Darius Kasperitis. Are we sure that the waiver process, coupled with a KHL transfer, completely absolve the Caps of the Nylander cap hit? Does he have to clear waivers for the transfer to go through (presumably be would, just curious)?

Also, how does the 'truce' between the NHL and KHL with regard to going after contracted players apply here? Is there an exception for situation in which permission is given to talk to the player by the team that owns his rights?

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06-09-2009, 02:05 PM
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There should be no hindrance with either the cap or the NMC, due to Nylander's complicity. He would be waived, and the player would waive his own NMC to approve that process, then he would have to pass through NHL waivers. In theory, any team could place a claim, though they would pass. He would then clear waivers and the Caps would formally demote him, I believe. He would join the KHL rather than Hershey, and Avangard would be responsible for the salary instead of the Caps' ownership group. Either way, he's off the cap as soon as he is demoted.

That is to deal with the NHL's rules, and square it with the league office. The lack of a transfer agreement makes it relatively simple to transfer him to the KHL. The Caps would be careful solely to ensure that they are not falling afoul of NHL restrictions.

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06-09-2009, 02:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CapsWolverinesUSA View Post
Can one of our CBA experts explain how Nylander's contract is treated if he goes to Russia? The article referenced the Rangers "waiving" Darius Kasperitis. Are we sure that the waiver process, coupled with a KHL transfer, completely absolve the Caps of the Nylander cap hit? Does he have to clear waivers for the transfer to go through (presumably be would, just curious)?

Also, how does the 'truce' between the NHL and KHL with regard to going after contracted players apply here? Is there an exception for situation in which permission is given to talk to the player by the team that owns his rights?
I think it's as simple as waiving him and then loaning him out. He'd have to pass through waivers before the loan could go through, but it's the loan that absolves the cap hit.

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06-09-2009, 02:14 PM
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Welcome back Marshall.




on the Nylander or Bruce argument, i tend to come down on the 51-49 Bruce side of it.

While I do think Nylander hasn't played well and his loafing at times has hurt the team, I do think the onus is on Bruce to find a way to make it work. The guy's stuck here for the foreseeable future with a steep contract, a NMC, and from all talks no takers at the deadline or this past season when they probably had looked to move him (that's if he even was willing to waive the NMC). I think he doesn't fit the system and that's some of it, but at the same time, when he was padding his stats, he was playing with Jagr, and he is getting up in age a tad. So yes, some is on Nylander. But the problem is, Bruce needs to find a line that works for him and stick him there. He can't go into the doghouse for each transgression. He has to play his way out of it, and I don't think he got that shot. He bounced from line to line, from teammate to teammate, and even when I thought there might have been a crack of hope, with a Flash/Combination, he was quickly relegated to the press box or the bench.

As far as any shots for the Caps versus the Pens, I'll step up to the plate on that one. I think the Caps blew their shot in some ways. I think they had a game that Varlamov was stealing and didn't get enough from everyone else. Whether that's the Caps or whether that's the Pens being the better team, who knows. I also think that when it comes down to it, getting shellacked in the final game, is on the Caps. They're better than they played, even if they were gassed. Ovechkin scores that breakaway and who knows what happens.


Either way, by some shock if this works out, then I think everyone needs to buy a Omsk jersey.

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Old
06-09-2009, 02:17 PM
  #25
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