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Union...What Union???

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10-08-2004, 08:08 AM
  #1
BLONG7
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Union...What Union???

Something I just don't get guys, the NHLPA does not act like a union, a real union, and as I read how guys are signing deals and running off to Europe(for small amounts of $$$)while others are just waiting here for some news on the CBA front. I realize that this is not a strike but a lockout, but by letting these guys go off and do their own thing, IMO makes the union look worse than it already does. Why go off to Europe and play for peanuts when you can accept some sort of a deal from the NHL and make millions, to play the game they supposedly love? Everyone knows that the NHL is THE LEAGUE to play in based on the talent level and the earning level of $$$...I think they should get back to the table, and if it takes a cap, then give it a cap(in the words of John Madden)work with the owners and get on with it... This is one time the PA is going to lose, the sooner they recognize that, the sooner they can go back to being millionaires and playing for the big $$$. I really liked TSN's Bob MacKenzie's analogy of both Gary and Knob driving buses both heading for the cliff and neither willing to stop and put on the brakes... the union may regret their no-cap stance, because the owners are eventually going to break the union as they know it, and there will be some sort of cost certainty, and if Knob had a brain he would work with them instead if against them to get a deal done that would keep some sort of NHLPA together, instead of the owners blowing it all up, and starting over... which is what needs to be done! Just my rant, from a fan who misses hockey in a big way!

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10-08-2004, 11:20 AM
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Benji Frank
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They're really doing their teams a favour by playing! If I'm Goodenow, I'd tell them to all sit on their butts eating chocolate eclairs so when the owners do come to an agreement, they'll all report to camp looking like o-linemen and need a month or two to get back into the shape & level the owners have come to take for granted!!! If you ask me, they're totally playing into the owners hands ... a couple of paycheques from now, they'll be even more frustrated seeing all the missing 000's at the end & they're staying in game shape to boot!!!!

I bet you'll hear alot more Pascal Rheume's before long.......

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10-08-2004, 11:34 AM
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Joe T Choker
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its AHL time!; Bring on the scabs!

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10-08-2004, 12:03 PM
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I could be more sympathetic to sports unions if they didn't cop an attitude like they were in Harlan County USA. The decent living rhetoric, unwillingness to articulate why they are allergic to a cap, visible apathy to any other issue than money and BS about looking out for the fans is off-putting.

Honestly I think they are a cartel as much as a union. Taking a limited resource and controlling the costs. The counter is always "Nobody held a gun to the owners head and made them hand out these contracts." True that, but nobody holds a gun to my head and forces me to pay $2 a gallon for gas. I can either take an extra two hours to get to work or bite the bullet. I've done what I can to defray the cost, getting a better milage car, voting for mass transit improvements, yet I'm still paying more out of pocket. The same goes for ownership, they have to either pay up or face the consequences of losing players.

I think it's also a luxary being unionized in and off itself. With the switch to a service economy and outsorcing of jobs, collective bargining and workers rights are on the wane.

On a trip to New Mexico this weekend I stopped by the Ludow Massacre memorial. In 1914 Rockafeller strike busters shot up a camp of striking miners. They killed 20 people (12 of witch were women and children.) The UMWA was striking for the right to live outside company towns, get paid in cash instead of company script, shop outside of company stores and an 8 hour workday. Really made this dispute seem in bad taste.

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10-08-2004, 01:23 PM
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mr gib
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hasbro
I could be more sympathetic to sports unions if they didn't cop an attitude like they were in Harlan County USA. The decent living rhetoric, unwillingness to articulate why they are allergic to a cap, visible apathy to any other issue than money and BS about looking out for the fans is off-putting.

Honestly I think they are a cartel as much as a union. Taking a limited resource and controlling the costs. The counter is always "Nobody held a gun to the owners head and made them hand out these contracts." True that, but nobody holds a gun to my head and forces me to pay $2 a gallon for gas. I can either take an extra two hours to get to work or bite the bullet. I've done what I can to defray the cost, getting a better milage car, voting for mass transit improvements, yet I'm still paying more out of pocket. The same goes for ownership, they have to either pay up or face the consequences of losing players.

I think it's also a luxary being unionized in and off itself. With the switch to a service economy and outsorcing of jobs, collective bargining and workers rights are on the wane.

On a trip to New Mexico this weekend I stopped by the Ludow Massacre memorial. In 1914 Rockafeller strike busters shot up a camp of striking miners. They killed 20 people (12 of witch were women and children.) The UMWA was striking for the right to live outside company towns, get paid in cash instead of company script, shop outside of company stores and an 8 hour workday. Really made this dispute seem in bad taste.
the owners locked out the players

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10-08-2004, 01:41 PM
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[quote/]On a trip to New Mexico this weekend I stopped by the Ludow Massacre memorial. In 1914 Rockafeller strike busters shot up a camp of striking miners. They killed 20 people (12 of witch were women and children.) The UMWA was striking for the right to live outside company towns, get paid in cash instead of company script, shop outside of company stores and an 8 hour workday. Really made this dispute seem in bad taste.[/QUOTE]

I couldn't agree more. The Sports Unions take advantage of labor law nearly a century old. Laws that were won by sacrifice and blood the likes of which current athletes have no cenception of, no understanding of, and no real knowledge of. The idea that sports unions are "cartels" is right on point as well. The labor cartel with-holds the players work for ransom. Where, for example, are sports unions when players safety is concerned, such as bad ice or poor health administrations on teams that consistantly post 400 man games lost to injuries in consecutive years, in football and baseball where are the unions over the issue of astro turf, concussion syndrome etc. Or, on integrity of game issues? Also, sports unions want all garuntees one way. The want money garunteed unconditionally with no consequences when their players don't live up to their promises, potential, or stats. Most importantly, however, is the mysterious involvement of big mega sports agencies and the influence they have on union decisions. What influence do the big agencies have on union positions regarding salaries and negotiations. My gues is a lot of behind the scenes legal expertise is going to undermine ownerships control of capital outlay, and the best ways to bend laws meant to protect manufacturing workers to the players benefits. The very word "union" still holds a certain magic with judges, and in some cases that's all well and good, but in the sports arena it is inapropriate. The NHL should replace the players and bust that union right this minute. For the good of all four major sports as well as their own.
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10-08-2004, 01:53 PM
  #7
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To be fair, they don't call themselves a union, they're an association. Because yes, they don't do anything union-like.

What we need is for them to *be* a union. Defined roles, set pay scales for doing the same job, regardless of location. 50 goal scorer = $X salary range, based on experience. Defensive d-man, $Y salary range. #1 goalie, $Z salary range.

Just the way it is in the real world, no individual negotiating.

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Old
10-08-2004, 03:01 PM
  #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mr gib
the owners locked out the players
I didn't say otherwise. It's a labor dispute six on one hand IMHO. I'd rather the owners take the intiative in this case since we lose the begining of the season and have a greater hope for resumption of play. Since the 1992 strike policy of players unions is to launch the strike late in the season to use the playoffs as leverage and collect as much salary and bonuses as possible. Since the lost World Series there has only been lockouts because of this reason.

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