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Edmonton and Ottawa ( Heatley )

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Old
06-10-2009, 02:26 AM
  #76
The Mars Volchenkov
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Quote:
Originally Posted by surshot View Post
Where did you here that on the radio or something? I would love to know if he is just going to waive his clause or atleast know the teams he is willing to go to. If he is willing i am certain the Oilers would give good value in return. Possibly more then what most teams would offer.
http://www.thefourthperiod.com/news/ott090609.html
Quote:
McAlpine indicated that Heatley has no preference as to which team he'd like to be traded to, nor is any timeline in place.

"The timeline is entirely up to the team," McAlpine said. "All we wanted to do was communicate our thoughts and feelings to Bryan Murray.

"I think [Heatley's] pretty open. I don't think geography is really an issue here. I think he just wants an opportunity to play with a team where he's got a more significant role. I think ultimately that's first and foremost on his wish list."

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06-10-2009, 02:30 AM
  #77
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06-10-2009, 02:36 AM
  #78
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Originally Posted by AlfieFlight View Post
Wow. this is really stupid.

I think it's a little too early to be talking so definitively about trade proposals. The story's barely broken. JP Barry himself said that he realizes that this isn't a sure thing.

People keep putting down that Heatley "DEMANDED" a trade in big bold capital letters. He requested one.
Don't kid yourself: by the time something like this gets to the press, we're past the "thinking out loud" stage.

His agent said this isn't a spur of the moment thing, it's gone on for months. If they've been talking with the team for months and finally decide to go to the press with it, I would say that the situation is irreparably damaged. You can't put that genie back in the bottle.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew B View Post
I think something along the lines of

One of Gilbert / Grebeshkov
One of Cogliano / O'Sullivan
One of Eberle / 2009 first

is probably a fair deal, and I doubt many teams offering better. Potentially the L.A Kings, but who knows.
I think I'd go that high, but no higher. If some other team was willing and able to beat that offer, that's their choice... but I think this would be the cut-off where it stops making sense.

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06-10-2009, 02:41 AM
  #79
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I see the OP as fair.

I'm not sure why Sen fans aren't happy with Gilbert being a part of the proposal. He would really help get the puck up to the forwards in transition. Wasn't that a major problem last season? Visnovsky would be a great fit, but I don't see him being dealt.

O'Sullivan is a top 6 guy with some versatility. Good on the PP and PK. He can play wing or centre, something Gags and Cogs are unable to do. With Spezza and Fisher signed long term, the Sens have no use for the Oiler's young, soft centres.

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06-10-2009, 03:05 AM
  #80
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Originally Posted by #11_THEBEST! View Post
There's nothing in Edmonton that I would consider for Heatley.....We already have a Hemsky type player.
Nothing that you want... well, to be fair, I don't think the GM's of either team or anyone else cares what you want, considering you aren't in the business of running pro hockey franchises.

I'm sure Bryan Murray could easily think of a few valuable pieces to snatch up from Edmonton in exchange for Heatley. The Oilers have many quality prospects - both offense & defense wise... no superstars in the pipeline but several good ones that could easily be included in a deal.

Gilbert is a very good young (25) defenseman who will be worth his contract. Guys like Cogliano, O'Sullivan are players who have value, believe it or not. If I was an Ottawa fan I'd be excited at the prospect of acquiring two good young players who could help seal up some of the holes that have developed over the years.

If you get Cogliano, you have a versatile player who can score goals, kill penalties, is lightning fast, is young - has a cheap contract and loads of potential. If you get an O'Sullivan, you play him with Spezza and although he may not be as prolific a goalscorer as Heatley, I think it's a sure thing he pots 30. Has a wicked release, still plenty of potential, is a very solid 2 way player who gets PP/PK time and is also versatile. Gilbert is your PP QB who can play against tough opposition and more often than not come out on the + side of things. Slick puck mover, pretty long contract but he's worth the 4 per, no question. I'd think he'd thrive in the East.

Anyways, you get the point...

It's either something like this or they do another star-for-star swap and maybe, for e.g. - trade with San Jose for a Patty Marleau. I think OTT is better off trading for a variety of parts and try to knock off 3 birds with 1 stone typa deal.


Last edited by Philly85: 06-10-2009 at 03:23 AM.
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06-10-2009, 09:23 AM
  #81
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Now that the demand is public it's like a big "SALE" sign just got hung above Heatleys head. What did the Oil get for Pronger? lol

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Old
06-10-2009, 09:24 AM
  #82
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Mckenzie and Rishaug have both been on Team1260 over here in Edmonton confirming Heatley is willing to waive the NMC to come over here.

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06-10-2009, 09:44 AM
  #83
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Originally Posted by OneSharpMarble View Post
Now that the demand is public it's like a big "SALE" sign just got hung above Heatleys head. What did the Oil get for Pronger? lol
a guy who scored 28 goals as a 22 year old, a blue chip prospect on defense and three picks, that wasn't a terrible deal it's just that your scouting staff dropped the ball on smid, not sure what you did with 1st rounder in 2007, eberle could be a good one though

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Old
06-10-2009, 10:40 AM
  #84
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Originally Posted by DaveMatthew View Post
If Heatley holds out, Ottawa suspends him, doesn't pay him and doesn't have him count against the cap.

Heatley has very little control over this situation, despite the NMC. He signed a longterm deal, so he can't even to threaten to leave as a UFA after next year and leave Ottawa with nothing.

Murray will shop him around to the entire league, get his top 2 or 3 offers and present them to Heatley. Then it'll be up to Heatley to decide whether he wants to play for one of the teams that Murray has arranged a trade with, for Ottawa, or hold out for the next 5 seasons.

If Heatley really wants to play for Edmonton, and they offer a poor package (like most Oiler fans on this site), then tough. He should have though about that before signing the extension.
1) What is poor about Gilbert/Grebeshkov, Cogliono/POS, 10th overall? Several people are *****ing about the "poor offers" people are throwing out there for Heatley and I just don't see it. I've seen more good offers for Heatley than any other player on this site.

2) The Sens won't be able to replace Heatley's salary "slot" until he's moved, because if they try to do something before - then Heatley's value takes another hit because every other GM knows that Murray has to move him.

3) From the Sens perspective, the worst thing Heatley can do is come to camp out of shape and dog it until he gets traded. The entire team suffers and the return for him goes down.

I don't think the Sens are going to get boned when they deal Heatley, but I don't think they're in the position to get max market value either. He'll probably get a pretty good return as long as there are 3-4 teams he's willing to get traded to that can afford his salary & cap hit, and have the assets to move. I just think that the EDM offer from above is fair value and about all you can reasonably expect.


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Old
06-10-2009, 10:54 AM
  #85
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Originally Posted by Beukeboom Fan View Post
1) What is poor about Gilbert/Grebeshkov, Cogliono/POS, 10th overall? Several people are *****ing about the "poor offers" people are throwing out there for Heatley and I just don't see it. I've seen more good offers for Heatley than any other player on this site.

2) The Sens won't be able to replace Heatley's salary "slot" until he's moved, because if they try to do something before - then Heatley's value takes another hit because every other GM knows that Murray has to move him.

3) From the Sens perspective, the worst thing Heatley can do is come to camp out of shape and dog it until he gets traded. The entire team suffers and the return for him goes down.

I don't think the Sens are going to get boned when they deal Heatley, but I don't think they're in the position to get max market value either. He'll probably get a pretty good return as long as there are 3-4 teams he's willing to get traded to that can afford his salary & cap hit, and have the assets to move.
1)That is a reasonable offer however there are Oiler fans going "hes demanded a trade we dont have to pay that much"

2) True but they could likely do it on the same day get a deal done in principle with an UFA then finalize the deal. That being said more then likely though Heater gets traded at the draft.

3) Very true but if he does that I would hope that Murray would approach him and tell him that no one wants him until he stops sucking.

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Old
06-10-2009, 11:23 AM
  #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bass Lee View Post
Cogliano-Grebs-1st overpayment?
In my opinion thats a bit of an over payment but Im of the belief you over pay for stars so as an Oiler fan, I would do this.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hextall86 View Post
OTT=Heatley

EDM=Gagner + 1st (10th overall) + Gilbert
See my answer above, but if Gagner is in the deal the 1st would not be involved. It would be Gilbert and Gagner not 1st or prospect. I think both locally and league wide people realize gagner's future and current ability makes him pretty valuable and certainly more valuable then Cogliano. Either way, Cogliano and Gagner are from the GTA so playing in Ott might be appealing to them.

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Originally Posted by saskyoil View Post
This is a hell of a time to demand a trade. The league's finances are in shambles, and without equal salary going the other way, Ott may only get 2-3 offers from teams that:
a) have the need + b) have the economic stability + c)have the cap space

Heatley is a guy that 29 teams would want, but only a couple satisfy the above three criteria. In my opinion, Calgary, San Jose, Edmonton, LA, Montreal, Minny are the only teams in play here.
I agree with this, Heatley is due for a 4 million dollar bonus this summer combined with an 8 million dollar salary this year (front end loaded contract) resulting in a $12 000 000 salary this season alone. That eliminates a lot of teams. You need a rich owner who wants to win more then anything and is willing to spend like crazy to do it. His cap hit is only 7.5 but he will cost a team $12 000 000 this year alone. Thats more then any player in the NHL.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew B View Post
I think something along the lines of

One of Gilbert / Grebeshkov
One of Cogliano / O'Sullivan
One of Eberle / 2009 first
I think the OP and this is fair. People have mentioned gagner as well though I think if it's Gagner going to Ott then EDM has more input concerning the add ons. Like Gilbert and only Gilbert if Gagner is going.

Quote:
Originally Posted by saskyoil View Post
Aye caramba I don't know if we can deal Gagner, as sweet as Heatley is. He is our only player with elite potential.
I would, its been 20 years since the Oilers had a player like Heatley. He would be the last guy on the Oilers I would trade but if you have a chance at a top 5 scorer in the NHL since the lock out, you need to take it.

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06-10-2009, 11:37 AM
  #87
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This is my pitch

Sourey, Brule, Shremp and 10th for Heatley

Do really think Heatley to Edm makes sense

they tried for Vanek, Hossa and Jagr. Heatley is in line with those guys and he grew up in Calgary

For Edm, Sourey wants out or was that just a rumour? Also Schremp is a prospect they'd like to move?

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06-10-2009, 11:39 AM
  #88
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Originally Posted by Beukeboom Fan View Post
From the Sens perspective, the worst thing Heatley can do is come to camp out of shape and dog it until he gets traded. The entire team suffers and the return for him goes down.

I don't think the Sens are going to get boned when they deal Heatley, but I don't think they're in the position to get max market value either. He'll probably get a pretty good return as long as there are 3-4 teams he's willing to get traded to that can afford his salary & cap hit, and have the assets to move. I just think that the EDM offer from above is fair value and about all you can reasonably expect.
If he dogs it he will only ruin his chances to play in the olympics (his career and reputation), I would think he is smarter than that. He is a shoe in for the Canadian Olympic team right now. Why fk that up?

2, Gagne and Cogliano are 2 good young players but they have not done much in the NHL other than score 16 and 18 goals career high each. It's like Ottawa offering a deal around Foligno and their 9th pick and prospect to go after a player of Dany Heatley's caliber on another team. Not enough IMO for a 6-3 220lb multi 50 goal 100+ point player who is only 28 year old.

Ottawa must get a player who can contribute and get better in the NHL (a young player who's at least shown he is a mid 20's goal scorer to manage some of the risk of the other 2 peices), a bluechip prospect, and a top 5-6 lottery pick.

That isnt too much to ask for a superstar LW IMO.


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Old
06-10-2009, 11:43 AM
  #89
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Originally Posted by pspot View Post
This is my pitch

Sourey, Brule, Shremp and 10th for Heatley

Do really think Heatley to Edm makes sense

they tried for Vanek, Hossa and Jagr. Heatley is in line with those guys and he grew up in Calgary

For Edm, Sourey wants out or was that just a rumour? Also Schremp is a prospect they'd like to move?
Ottawa fans dont' want Souray, yes he did well for you guys last year but we spent too many years watching him get undressed by Spezza. Nor do we really want to failed prospects, I like the O'sully+Gilbert+1st proposal. For some reason I have always like Patrick, I do admit I am torn between Gilbert and Greb though, I just think Greb-Volchencov would make a killer pairing.

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06-10-2009, 11:45 AM
  #90
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Originally Posted by Comely View Post
Ottawa fans dont' want Souray, yes he did well for you guys last year but we spent too many years watching him get undressed by Spezza. Nor do we really want to failed prospects, I like the O'sully+Gilbert+1st proposal. For some reason I have always like Patrick, I do admit I am torn between Gilbert and Greb though, I just think Greb-Volchencov would make a killer pairing.
I think O'Sullivan needs to be involved for such a deal to work for both sides. Edmonton already has two other LWs in the same price (although not talent) range as Patio, and adding Heatley to that would just exacerbate the problem. Besides, I'm a huge fan of O'Sullivan, and I think he'd score 35 goals easy with Spezza/Alfie. He thinks the game offensively at the same level, is extremely elusive, and shoots at every opportunity.

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06-10-2009, 11:47 AM
  #91
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Comely View Post
Ottawa fans dont' want Souray, yes he did well for you guys last year but we spent too many years watching him get undressed by Spezza. Nor do we really want to failed prospects, I like the O'sully+Gilbert+1st proposal. For some reason I have always like Patrick, I do admit I am torn between Gilbert and Greb though, I just think Greb-Volchencov would make a killer pairing.
you could pair Atrain him with Kulikov

Just not sure Ott will get full value with Heatley now that its public he wants out. Its hard to move a contract like that. Sourey would be a nice addition to Ott if they still think they can compete now but also restructure a bit for the future

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06-10-2009, 11:50 AM
  #92
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Originally Posted by AlfieFlight View Post
Wow. this is really stupid.

I think it's a little too early to be talking so definitively about trade proposals. The story's barely broken. JP Barry himself said that he realizes that this isn't a sure thing.

People keep putting down that Heatley "DEMANDED" a trade in big bold capital letters. He requested one. There's a difference. He said that he's not happy with his role and that he would like a change. Right now, he doesn't feel like staying in Ottawa. But a year ago he loved the idea, he was so committed to it that he asked for a larger role on the team and to be a leader. Who's to say, maybe he'll warm up to the team again. He's far from holding out on the team.

JP Barry and him seem prepared to wait and see if something can be worked out. If nothing acceptable comes to Murray, he can keep trying for 5 years.

Whoever derisively brought up the Yashin situation needs to get their head out of their can. Ottawa ended up fleecing NYI in that trade.

Heatley's an elite player. 72 points last year does nothing to change that fact. Like someone said, Edm fans gizz in their pants at the prospect of a Hemsky/Heatley combo, as do Vancouver fans at the idea of him playing with the Sedins.

I'm sure after the Oilers offered 9 million over 9 years to Hossa last year, they wouldn't mind the "burden" of 7.5 over 5 years.

Heatley wanted out of Atlanta and they got Hossa (... and greg devries) for him.

Bryan Murray has a lot of options. Don't kid yourselves.

Hahah. Spoken like a true Sens fan in denial.

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06-10-2009, 11:55 AM
  #93
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Originally Posted by ncredible View Post

To Ottawa
2009 1st round pick 10th overall.
Patrick O'Sullivan 2.925M cap hit
Tom Gilbert 4M cap hit.

To Edmonton
Danny Heatley 7.5M cap hit.
I think either Souray or Visnovsky (more likely Visnovsky) need to go to make the cap space for Heatley longterm. Also, a puck moving #1 defenseman is Ottawa's most pressing need (other than replacing Heatley)

I also think Heatley is worth more than that package. Comparing what Hossa got last year isn't the same as Heatley is locked up for 5 more years (think Pronger trade). I think Cogliano needs to go as well.

O'Sullivan, Cogliano, Visnovsky and the 10th

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06-10-2009, 11:58 AM
  #94
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If he dogs it he will only ruin his chances to play in the olympics (his career and reputation), I would think he is smarter than that. He is a shoe in for the Canadian Olympic team right now. Why fk that up?

2, Gagne and Cogliano are 2 good young players but they have not done much in the NHL other than score 16 and 18 goals career high each. It's like Ottawa offering a deal around Foligno and their 9th pick and prospect to go after a player of Dany Heatley's caliber on another team. Not enough IMO for a 6-3 220lb multi 50 goal 100+ point player who is only 28 year old.

Ottawa must get a player who can contribute and get better in the NHL (a young player who's at least shown he is a mid 20's goal scorer to manage some of the risk of the other 2 peices), a bluechip prospect, and a top 5-6 lottery pick.

That isnt too much to ask for a superstar LW IMO.
Good luck with that with that return. Do you think that Heatley is going to take a trade to the NYI, TB, PHO or ATL? Those teams have 4 of the top 6 picks. What you're looking for pretty much limits you to LA, which is definetetely a possibility.

I think the EDM offer is pretty close to what you're looking for:

POS = a young player who's at least shown he is a mid 20's goal scorer
10th overall = lottery pick (not top 6 but should still be a REALLY good prospect)
a bluechip prospect = Gilbert's not a prospect, but he's a legit top pairing offensive d-man who can move the puck and is locked up reasonably long term - aka - exactly what OTT needs.

I don't think that if Heatley struggles out of the gate he's not going to make the Olympic team. Stevie Y is smarter than that.

The Sens REALLY need to get this addressed now, because it's going to be REALLY difficult to find someone who can pick up that much salary after the season starts.

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06-10-2009, 12:05 PM
  #95
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Originally Posted by Redlighting View Post
I also think Heatley is worth more than that package. Comparing what Hossa got last year isn't the same as Heatley is locked up for 5 more years (think Pronger trade). I think Cogliano needs to go as well.
Just my $.02, but you can't compare a rental deal like Hossa's trade to PITT to a deal like this. Just my thought:

Pronger's value at time of trade >> Heatley's value now.

Gilbert > Smid
POS/Cogliano = Lupul
10th overall > ANA's 1st & 2nd rounder considering they would likely be 25-30

The contingent 1st if ANA won the cup shouldn't really be considered as part of the return, because even with Pronger winning the Cup was a longshot.

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06-10-2009, 12:08 PM
  #96
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You also have to consider the real possibility that the cap is coming down so Heatley's 8.5 could be a large part of capspace.

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06-10-2009, 12:08 PM
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Originally Posted by Beukeboom Fan View Post
The Sens REALLY need to get this addressed now, because it's going to be REALLY difficult to find someone who can pick up that much salary after the season starts.
I think if Heatley isn't dealt by the draft, I doubt he gets dealt at all. If it is that urgent and him and Clouston hate each other that much I bet he gets dealt at the draft in few weeks time just b4 July 1 and teams commit salary to UFA/

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06-10-2009, 12:12 PM
  #98
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Originally Posted by pspot View Post
You also have to consider the real possibility that the cap is coming down so Heatley's 8.5 could be a large part of capspace.
it's 7.5 and it was front loaded too. Ottawa paid him 10 mill last season.

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06-10-2009, 12:24 PM
  #99
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Originally Posted by 4thliner View Post
I think if Heatley isn't dealt by the draft, I doubt he gets dealt at all. If it is that urgent and him and Clouston hate each other that much I bet he gets dealt at the draft in few weeks time just b4 July 1 and teams commit salary to UFA/
He will be dealt by the draft. CBC news was reporting the trade "request" for christs sake.
Can't even use the Pronger trade as a comparable for this. Prongers value was at its highest, and Heatley's value is at it's lowest coupled with an uncertain economy and over half of the franchises in alleged financial woes.

If Edmonton does swing the deal it probably be one of-
Visnovsky+Cogliano+2nd
Visnovsky+1st
Gilbert+Cogliano+2nd
Gilbert+O'Sullivan+1st
Gilbert+Gagner+a lower prospect

Souray is not going to accept a trade to Ottawa. His kids are in L.A.

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06-10-2009, 12:32 PM
  #100
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Originally Posted by Respect Your Edler View Post
Yeah, that's why I think Ottawa would demand him in a trade and make him the centrepiece. Edmonton also has alot of young skilled forwards who aren't there yet, so they can afford to deal one in order to get an elite goalscorer in his prime. He had an off year on a bad team, but in Edmonton he would be able to get the puck and score 45+. Considering Edmonton keeps Ebrele and their 1st this year, they maintain a future while making the playoffs this year.
Gagner is our only prospect in his tier as far as I'm concerned. They have several in the next tier. (damn, I just talked in HF like language and wasn't trying to :-) )

If Edm-Ott do talk, I imagine/pray that Tambellini will hold Gagner like Anaheim did Getzlaf during the Pronger trade.

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