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Heatley for Bobby Ryan

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Old
06-10-2009, 02:17 PM
  #76
BeerandHockey
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Talentless Practise View Post
Don't get angry just because someone points out Heaters recent lack of production. It's a fact. My point about not replicating his 50 goal season (in 06-07 to simplify for you) was that not only rookies are liable to inconsistent production. If that point eludes you, tough luck.

Fact is, for 7.5M cap hit, a player is expected to produce 50g, 100 point seasons regularly. Heatley hasn't been able to, irregardless of whether he once has.
Everyone who makes 7.5 million per year is expected to score 50 goals and 100 points? In the last 10 seasons there have been only 10 50 goal plus players

Alexander Ovechkin 200708 65g
Ilya Kovalchuk 200708 52g
Jarome Iginla 2007-08 50g
Dany Heatley 200607 50g
Vincent Lecavalier 200607 52g
Jonathan Cheechoo 200506 56g
Dany Heatley 200506 50g
Jaromir Jagr 200506 54g
Ilya Kovalchuk 200506 52g
Alexander Ovechkin 2005-06 52g
Milan Hejduk 200203 50g
Jarome Iginla 200102 52g
Pavel Bure 200001 59g
Jaromir Jagr 200001 52g
Joe Sakic 200001 54g
Pavel Bure 199900 58g

Notice how in 10 seasons only 2 players did this twice, and now Ovechkin makes it a 3rd. You seem to think scoring 50 should be a cake walk. For Heatley it comes naturally, and even though his production dropped last year, so did all of Ottawa's. Heatley can easily score 50 plus again, it is whether or not he finds a good fit to do it. I think he would be a beast with Getzlaf, however I just don't see Anaheim being in to getting Heatley since they are in terrible shape as far as the cap space goes. I suppose if Niedermayer leaves, then some space opens up, however he should be a priority since Niedermayer is one of the top 3 puck movers in the game.

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Old
06-10-2009, 02:19 PM
  #77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alex28 View Post
Also people tend to forget that he's soft, horrible defensively and needs a star caliber center to carry him. But he gets paid like a complete package.
Heatley scored 41 goals and 90 pts in his SOPHOMORE year at 20 in Atlanta with no so called 'star' center.

Heatley doesnt need Spezza to score goals. Nor does Spezza need Heatley to get his points.

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Old
06-10-2009, 02:30 PM
  #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheJudge View Post
You can't expect someone to score in games they don't play in.
A goal is a goal is a goal. On pace goals or goals per game don't help your team win, goals scored do.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Praise Alfie View Post
Everyone who makes 7.5 million per year is expected to score 50 goals and 100 points?
Well obviously a playmaker can't be expected to score 50 goals but 100 points should be expected and were talking about a sniper in Heater who should have ~50 goals to justify that salary.

Which forwards make more than him, cap wise? AO, Crosby, Malkin.

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Old
06-10-2009, 02:42 PM
  #79
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Originally Posted by Murderin Murphy View Post
I'd love for the Ducks to do this. I think this is a fantastic deal.
Location: San Jose ;-)

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Old
06-10-2009, 02:45 PM
  #80
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Praise Alfie View Post
Alexander Ovechkin 200708 65g
Ilya Kovalchuk 200708 52g
Jarome Iginla 2007-08 50g
Dany Heatley 200607 50g
Vincent Lecavalier 200607 52g
Jonathan Cheechoo 200506 56g
Dany Heatley 200506 50g
Jaromir Jagr 200506 54g
Ilya Kovalchuk 200506 52g
Alexander Ovechkin 2005-06 52g
Milan Hejduk 200203 50g
Jarome Iginla 200102 52g
Pavel Bure 200001 59g
Jaromir Jagr 200001 52g
Joe Sakic 200001 54g
Pavel Bure 199900 58g

Notice how in 10 seasons only 2 players did this twice, and now Ovechkin makes it a 3rd.
not to nit pick but Ovie makes the 4th. Jagr, Kovy, Heatley, Ovy.

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Old
06-10-2009, 02:48 PM
  #81
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kurri_17 View Post
Location: San Jose ;-)
Still doesn't mean it isn't a great deal for Anaheim...

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06-10-2009, 02:55 PM
  #82
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This is simply not a very good proposal (sorry @ OP). The Ducks have to add some offense this offseason and they can't get this done by spending that much more for a player that might end up scoring 15 more goals than Ryan, while also being older. There will be some money available as probably one of Niedermayer or Pronger won't be around next season, but the Ducks absolutely can't spend that much on Heatley while losing Ryan.

There are three ways a deal could happen between these two teams from the Ducks' POV:
1) Something around Heatley for Pronger, which is unlikely because as a Senator I would feel unsafe about Pronger considering to extend his contract there.
2) Something around Heatley for Giguere++, which the Sens obviously would not do since they have no need for Giguere.
3) Something around Heatley for Perry, which would already require some tweaking for the Ducks financially and would break up the tremendous chemistry between Getzlaf and Perry (while being replaced with another possibly pretty great one, I have to admit).

I don't see the Ducks in the mix for Heatley all that much, I have to say.

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Old
06-10-2009, 03:14 PM
  #83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 4thliner View Post
Heatley scored 41 goals and 90 pts in his SOPHOMORE year at 20 in Atlanta with no so called 'star' center.

Heatley doesnt need Spezza to score goals. Nor does Spezza need Heatley to get his points.
Yeah, sure. Funny how most of the time they tried to split up the CASH line it was Alfredsson moving down and Spezza and Heatley staying together.

Heatley was a beast at 20, yeah, but a broken jaw, bruised lung, concussion, a bruised lung, messed up knee and broken orbital bone later he's not the same player even if he's still an elite sniper. At this point if you're trading for him it's realistic to expect him to be consistenly good for 40 goal seasons, if you expect a constant 45-50 goal scorer coming your way you're most likely to be disappointed. At the same time, he's an extremely one dimensional player while Ryan forchecks, backchecks and hits like a rabid dog.

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Old
06-10-2009, 04:41 PM
  #84
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Originally Posted by Murderin Murphy View Post
Sure they can, in fact, I encourage it.
I'm sure you do, we'll keep our soon to be cheap 40 goal power forward

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Old
06-10-2009, 04:45 PM
  #85
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Ask yourselves this, is Dany Heatley a better hockey player than Ryan Getzlaf?

the answer is, hell no.

so we won't be trading a budding superstar to acquire a guy that makes 2 million more than our best player

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Old
06-10-2009, 04:45 PM
  #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Talentless Practise View Post
A goal is a goal is a goal. On pace goals or goals per game don't help your team win, goals scored do.
Actually, they do. If player 1 scores 82 points in 82 games, and player 2 scores 79 points in 62 games (and consider them equal in terms of intangibles and stuff), then, unless the guy playing in the spot of player 2 for the other 20 games manages to score 3 points or less, player 2's production is superior, since in the end production per position is what ultimately matters.

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Old
06-10-2009, 07:35 PM
  #87
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BOBBY RYAN FTW!! I hink hes worth more than heatley and also because I think that when he resigns next year he won't be wanting a heatley contract which is 7.5, although obviously he could ask for a lot of money, i'm hoping he wn't ask for more than getzlaf

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Old
06-10-2009, 07:53 PM
  #88
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Ryan will be the best offensive player on the Ducks in 2-3 years(yes better than Getzlaf). He is arguably better than Perry right now, although Perry showed up for the playoffs and Ryan didn't so i would take Perry as of now.

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06-10-2009, 08:18 PM
  #89
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When fully developed, I think Ryan will be a similar player to Heatley.

I don't think he'll be overly physical, but he might be a better 2 way player in the ducks system, but his offense will ultimately suffer.

However, from a duck's perspective and the salary structure Ryan >>> Heatley.

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Old
06-10-2009, 08:28 PM
  #90
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Anaheim won't give up their best youngster. Either way, I doubt Heatley would fit into Anaheim's play system of aggression and power.

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06-10-2009, 08:31 PM
  #91
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Talentless Practise View Post
Fact is, for 7.5M cap hit, a player is expected to produce 50g, 100 point seasons regularly. Heatley hasn't been able to, irregardless of whether he once has.
You know that everybody in Ottawa sucked this year, right? Not just Heatley?

Jesus, until Ryan plays another 2+ years averaging the same amount of points, Heatley will still have more trade value despite his cap hit. There are a tonne of players who have anomaly-years and never return to the same scoring rate. Ever.

Bobby Ryan is good. Heatley is great. Ryan and Getzlaf is a work of art. Getzlaf and Heatley is a masterpiece.

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06-10-2009, 08:41 PM
  #92
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aeon View Post
You know that everybody in Ottawa sucked this year, right? Not just Heatley?

Jesus, until Ryan plays another 2+ years averaging the same amount of points, Heatley will still have more trade value despite his cap hit. There are a tonne of players who have anomaly-years and never return to the same scoring rate. Ever.

Bobby Ryan is good. Heatley is great. Ryan and Getzlaf is a work of art. Getzlaf and Heatley is a masterpiece.
Very nice, but it's a masterpiece the Ducks can't afford. There are certain aspects that need to be addressed and there is limited cap space to get this done. Replacing Ryan with Heatley instantly destroys close to all our options regarding those areas that actually need to be worked on.

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06-10-2009, 08:42 PM
  #93
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aeon View Post
You know that everybody in Ottawa sucked this year, right? Not just Heatley?

Jesus, until Ryan plays another 2+ years averaging the same amount of points, Heatley will still have more trade value despite his cap hit. There are a tonne of players who have anomaly-years and never return to the same scoring rate. Ever.

Bobby Ryan is good. Heatley is great. Ryan and Getzlaf is a work of art. Getzlaf and Heatley is a masterpiece.
You do realize of course that "trade value" is relative to each team, and that Heatley's trade value to Anaheim is likely not as high as it is to another team?

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Old
06-10-2009, 10:56 PM
  #94
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aeon View Post
You know that everybody in Ottawa sucked this year, right? Not just Heatley?

Jesus, until Ryan plays another 2+ years averaging the same amount of points, Heatley will still have more trade value despite his cap hit. There are a tonne of players who have anomaly-years and never return to the same scoring rate. Ever.

Bobby Ryan is good. Heatley is great. Ryan and Getzlaf is a work of art. Getzlaf and Heatley is a masterpiece.
Am i missing something here? I mean, there is a good chance that Getzlaf and Ryan wont even play on the same line next year...

PS - what does that mean Getzlaf and Perry?

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06-10-2009, 10:58 PM
  #95
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Originally Posted by Vipers31 View Post
Very nice, but it's a masterpiece the Ducks can't afford. There are certain aspects that need to be addressed and there is limited cap space to get this done. Replacing Ryan with Heatley instantly destroys close to all our options regarding those areas that actually need to be worked on.
Very understandable. I don't profess to know more about your team than you do, all I can say is that Heatley and Ryan are very good players and to say either one is significantly better than the other is a total waste of time, because both play different styles.

I would take either on my team. (And, to my chagrin, Bobby Ryan to the Canucks was almost in place... bloody Atlanta)

Quote:
Originally Posted by D U C K S View Post
You do realize of course that "trade value" is relative to each team, and that Heatley's trade value to Anaheim is likely not as high as it is to another team?
I recognize this as well. It all comes down to preference, in the end. Consistent, 40 goal sniper in the midst of his prime, or the young and upcoming Power Forward signed to a steal of a deal.

I wish Vancouver was in a situation like this.

EDIT:

Quote:
Originally Posted by karacter View Post
Am i missing something here? I mean, there is a good chance that Getzlaf and Ryan wont even play on the same line next year...

PS - what does that mean Getzlaf and Perry?
I suppose you intended to say 'What does that mean about Getzlaf and Perry?" To answer your first question, I vaguely remember seeing Ryan play on Getzlaf's line and he fit in quite nicely. If you want details, I'm sure Randall Graves will be more than happy to accommodate you.

If memory serves me well, there are two wingers on each line (at most times). If Ryan gets traded for Heatley (hypothetically)..... that leaves an empty slot, doesn't it? Perry wouldn't have to worry about a thing.

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06-10-2009, 11:04 PM
  #96
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What about Perry for Heatley?

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Old
06-10-2009, 11:22 PM
  #97
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Originally Posted by caliamad View Post
When fully developed, I think Ryan will be a similar player to Heatley.

I don't think he'll be overly physical, but he might be a better 2 way player in the ducks system, but his offense will ultimately suffer.

However, from a duck's perspective and the salary structure Ryan >>> Heatley.
Don't the Ducks want to unload Guigere and go with a cheaper Hiller instead? Maybe look at a hypothetical 3 way trade to make the salaries work a bit better:

ANA:
Heatley

OTT:
Ryan
*Likely salary dump*

3rd Party in need of goalie:
Guigere

Value is completely off, but it depends on what people think Guigere's value is. It's likely Ottawa is going to have to add a bit more to the deal to make it work for Anaheim, but if Guigere was moved in the process then they'd save a small amount of cap space, but improve their team immediately. They'd end up with a Heatley-Getzlaf-Perry line, but would still have a chunk of cap space to improve their team. Supplement picks where needed.

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06-10-2009, 11:37 PM
  #98
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Originally Posted by TheHMan View Post
Don't the Ducks want to unload Guigere and go with a cheaper Hiller instead? Maybe look at a hypothetical 3 way trade to make the salaries work a bit better:

ANA:
Heatley

OTT:
Ryan
*Likely salary dump*

3rd Party in need of goalie:
Guigere

Value is completely off, but it depends on what people think Guigere's value is. It's likely Ottawa is going to have to add a bit more to the deal to make it work for Anaheim, but if Guigere was moved in the process then they'd save a small amount of cap space, but improve their team immediately. They'd end up with a Heatley-Getzlaf-Perry line, but would still have a chunk of cap space to improve their team. Supplement picks where needed.
Ducks don't need to dump salary. It would be better spent on forwards than goal though.

How much of an upgrade do you consider Ryan vs. Heatley? Is it worth 6+ million cap space? I don't think so.

The ducks goal this offseason is to improve forward depth. They are happy with a top line of Ryan Getzlaf and Perry. Its the 2nd line of Selanne Ebbett Carter/Christensen they want to see improve.

Trading Heatley for Ryan + Giguere doesn't solve that problem.

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Old
06-11-2009, 12:25 AM
  #99
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aeon View Post
You know that everybody in Ottawa sucked this year, right? Not just Heatley?

Jesus, until Ryan plays another 2+ years averaging the same amount of points, Heatley will still have more trade value despite his cap hit. There are a tonne of players who have anomaly-years and never return to the same scoring rate. Ever.

Bobby Ryan is good. Heatley is great. Ryan and Getzlaf is a work of art. Getzlaf and Heatley is a masterpiece.
And the fact remains, cap hit affects value, so to the ducks Ryan is more valuable, as an asset than Heatley, all the ducks need is secondary scoring not a 7.5 million dollar 1 one player

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Old
06-11-2009, 12:48 AM
  #100
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i am amazed at how much value some of these young players have on these boards. Ryan needs to prove he can do it over a entire season just like Doughty needs to prove he can repeat another solid season, and stamkos and bogo and schenn and the list goes on and on.

Take away salaries, what talent would you rather have on your team for the next 3-4 yrs? if i am the ducks, i think they have a better chance for the cup with heatley now, but for the future ryan.

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