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Old
06-10-2009, 11:03 PM
  #26
blackcoffee
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by danishh View Post
i'm not high on him, and that's my opinion. No reason for that backhanded insult.

At every draft, i'm hoping for the players i want to go to teams i like (because i know its not realistic to have all of them go to the sens) and praying teams i like dont take players i'm low on or fell have problems.

During the 2007 draft, i was hoping cherapanov or esposito would fall to them, or that they would take backlund. I was not very high on nash, who i felt benefitted from playing in a weaker league. While he has done well in college so far, i'm still not confident he will make the transition to the NHL well, so we'll have to wait and see.
Sorry, I didn't mean it to come across as an insult but I can see how you would have read it that way. I guess I was just more so pointing towards how he's been talked about glowingly in the hockey media since being drafted.

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Old
06-10-2009, 11:10 PM
  #27
bert
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Quote:
Originally Posted by danishh View Post
that's way too much to expect.

And am I the only one annoyed at the number of people that spell Sam Gagner's name wrong? His dad was a pretty damn famous NHLer.
Sorry i forgot the R. Wicked rip though....

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Old
06-10-2009, 11:25 PM
  #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by danishh View Post
that's way too much to expect.

And am I the only one annoyed at the number of people that spell Sam Gagner's name wrong? His dad was a pretty damn famous NHLer.
Who are you trying to kid? There's no way Simon Gagne is old enough to be his dad

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Old
06-11-2009, 12:23 AM
  #29
thadd
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Salim786 View Post
To Edmonton:
Dany Heatley

To Ottawa:
10th overall
Jeff Petry
Tom Gilbert
Jordan Eberle
Riley Nash/Alex Plante
*Sarcastic applause*

Congrats you just traded away pretty much everything good Edmonton has in the system which hasn't disappointed us yet.

A 1st rounder, a top defensive prospect, a near 1st pairing defenseman, a guy who'll end up being a 2nd line forward at worst, and either a guy who's turning into one hell of a 3rd line center or a big mean top 4 defenseman?

And THEN Edmonton eats 3.5 mill of Heatley's salary when the cap is expected to fall 500k-1mill next year?

I'm sorry, but please put down the crack pipe when you log onto HF Boards. We're drug free here.

Gilbert(4)/Grebs(3.5) - I'd rather it be Gilbert because Grebs puts more effort in and we've seen him develop a lot faster than Gilbert. He also plays a tougher game. Gilbert has 500k more cap hit and there's no way that Edmonton is going to eat even a few mill in a deal like this.

Plus

Cogliano(1.5) & Nilson(2) OR O'Sullivan(2.5 or 2.75?) - Edmonton needs to shed some smallness and it would work out well either way. I don't think Edmonton could be lucky enough to get away with giving up on Nilson and throwing Cogs in to get rid of the embarrassing lack of success on the faceoffs on the 3rd line.

Plus

1st & 2nd rounder for one year at least. 2 first rounders wouldn't be out of the question.

Grebs/Gilbert
Cogs&Nilson/O'Sullivan
1st and 2nd rounder in 09/10 at least.


Not going to get much more than that out of Edmonton unless you wana roll the dice and take on a bad contract like Stiaos, Horcoff, Pisani, Moreau or Penner. And I doubt very much that you do.

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Old
06-11-2009, 01:26 AM
  #30
s7ark
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Quote:
Originally Posted by danishh View Post
once again look at the pronger trade as you guys looked at it when it happened, not how it has turned out now (obviously edmonton got screwed in hindsight).

Lupul: young top-line winger expected to be perrenial 30-35 goal scorer
Smid: top-10 pick expected to turn into a premier defensive defenceman. He is still on his way to that.
1st: Not our fault lowe used it on Riley Nash
1st: Jordan Eberle, expected to be a top-6 scoring NHLer

so promising young player, top pick, and 2 1st rounders. That's what it will take. I'm thinking Gagner, Eberle, 10th overall, and conditional '10 1st if oilers make the finals.
I know a few others have commented on this but Nash is looking good. He took the 1st C spot after only 3 weeks in his rookie year. His defense is already great and he has some sick hands too. He could be a Kesler type. Cornell fans say he's the most talented person to play there since Joey N. Nash is neither a toss in nor a bad pick. Remember, no one knew much about Oshie before he was picked either. Just cause the guy wasn't the ISS choice at the spot doesn't mean he won't turn out.

Quote:
Originally Posted by OmniSens15 View Post
Counter: Heatley for Souray and 1st 09
I'd do it, but Souray doesn't waive his NMC unless he's going closer to his kids, like Cali or maybe Phoenix, if they still exist next season

Quote:
Originally Posted by danishh View Post
i'm not high on him, and that's my opinion. No reason for that backhanded insult.

At every draft, i'm hoping for the players i want to go to teams i like (because i know its not realistic to have all of them go to the sens) and praying teams i like dont take players i'm low on or fell have problems.

During the 2007 draft, i was hoping cherapanov or esposito would fall to them, or that they would take backlund. I was not very high on nash, who i felt benefitted from playing in a weaker league. While he has done well in college so far, i'm still not confident he will make the transition to the NHL well, so we'll have to wait and see.
While Nash did play in a weaker league so did Turris Cogliano and Zajac and I'm sure you wouldn't turn them down. I would suggest maybe reserving judgement on him till he makes the AHL and you can see him a bit, he could surprise some. All Nash needs to do is gain 10-15lbs of muscle as he already has the height and skills to turn pro. He's very popular over in Oil town.

He doesn't have much on youtube so I'll post the only thing that's there.

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Old
06-11-2009, 01:44 AM
  #31
PDO
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Quote:
Originally Posted by danishh View Post
once again look at the pronger trade as you guys looked at it when it happened, not how it has turned out now (obviously edmonton got screwed in hindsight).

Lupul: young top-line winger expected to be perrenial 30-35 goal scorer
Smid: top-10 pick expected to turn into a premier defensive defenceman. He is still on his way to that.
1st: Not our fault lowe used it on Riley Nash
1st: Jordan Eberle, expected to be a top-6 scoring NHLer

so promising young player, top pick, and 2 1st rounders. That's what it will take. I'm thinking Gagner, Eberle, 10th overall, and conditional '10 1st if oilers make the finals.
That deal was panned by 90% of Oiler fans as ****ing terrible - which it was.

Pronger did NOT have an NMC, was signed to a great contract (Heatley's is market value at best), and was coming off a playoffs where he almost won the Conn Smythe on the losing team, was considered the BEST defenseman in the league - if not the best player. 21 points in 24 playoff games.

Heatley has an NMC and is coming off the worst year he's had in a long time.

It's not like Pronger is the exception either - Luongo, Thornton, Boyle, Richards, Hossa, Smyth, Havlat..

As much as Ottawa fans might have dreams of Hemsky++ (and trust me, I was sitting there thinking Getzlaf or Richards or Horton AND Jay Bouw, and instead got Brewer and Carter)... it's more likely you see:

Penner, Nilsson, Staios and a conditional pick.

Am I saying that's fair value? Hell no.

I just don't think you'll get anywhere near it.

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Old
06-11-2009, 02:21 AM
  #32
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Does anyone think something around Heatley for Hemsky + would work? Considering Heatley's value would likely be lower because he requested a trade, Hemsky for Heatley straight up.

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Old
06-11-2009, 02:23 AM
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oblivion View Post
Does anyone think something around Heatley for Hemsky + would work?
No.

Hemsky - 4.1
Heatley - 7.5

Heatley - requesting trade.
Hemsky - happy to be in Edmonton.

If Edmonton brings in Heatley it's to play with Hemsky.

And it'd be Heatley+ for reasons above.

Edit: lol. You added straight up part quickly . Contracts play a huge role here though.

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Old
06-11-2009, 02:35 AM
  #34
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just like kevin lowe brian murray has absolutely no bargaining power in this situation. NONE. kevin lowe said he had about 4 or 5 offers that were on the table for chris pronger..... that was at a good price when everyone knew it AND when the cap was growing not shrinking.

murray is gonna get low balled consistently until he has no choice but to accept a trade. because even if he figures things out with heatley and the coach im sure more problems will ensue and the team will not heal from the situation. i can see teams giving murray lowball trade offers while still clearing almost the same salary as what heatley wuold bring them.

look for dustin penner tom gilbert steve staios ethan moreau andrew cogliano and maybe our 1st rounder this year but beyond that i dont think its worth giving up our higher end prospects/ up and comers for potentially someone who could thrash our own dressing room. us being edmonton. screw ottawa fans....cheers

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Old
06-11-2009, 02:40 AM
  #35
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nobody takes my boy eberle. calgary native or edmonton one of the two if that isnt a sign not to trade him out east what is. edmonton complains they cant get players or keep any? well how about holding onto a great prospect who lives here and would probably want to stay HERE. did i mention he will be good?

and hemsky for heatley straight up? what are u on crack? come on man if thats what ottawa is asking the oilers will simply walk away and let them trade heatley just before training camp for waay less then offered originally.

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Old
06-11-2009, 06:19 AM
  #36
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How many 50 goal players are there in the NHL?

Heatley
Ovechkin
Malkin
Kovalchuk
Crosby?
Iginla
Lecavalier

You guys have to offer high here, or else Ottawa won't budge.

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Old
06-11-2009, 09:46 AM
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kamina View Post
How many 50 goal players are there in the NHL?

Heatley
Ovechkin
Malkin
Kovalchuk
Crosby?
Iginla
Lecavalier

You guys have to offer high here, or else Ottawa won't budge.
They'll budge.

Once something like this has become public, it seems unlikely that keeping him is an option. The relationship with the coach, and the players, and the fans, is not going to be the same again. To me, it seems highly naive to think that if they don't get a price they want, they can just pretend this trade request never happened.

And, he apparently gets a $4 million cheque on July 1, so they could be a motivated seller. Paying a $4m signing bonus to a guy who wants to leave seems unlikely.

And, once free agent season is underway, teams will be using up their available cap space quickly.

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Old
06-11-2009, 10:32 AM
  #38
Dick Whitman
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oilers_guy_eddie View Post
They'll budge.

Once something like this has become public, it seems unlikely that keeping him is an option. The relationship with the coach, and the players, and the fans, is not going to be the same again. To me, it seems highly naive to think that if they don't get a price they want, they can just pretend this trade request never happened.

And, he apparently gets a $4 million cheque on July 1, so they could be a motivated seller. Paying a $4m signing bonus to a guy who wants to leave seems unlikely.

And, once free agent season is underway, teams will be using up their available cap space quickly.
Paying him 4million just ups his value even more, though I imagine something will get done on draft day.

Furthermore, we fully expect cap hits to come back Ottawa's way so I'm not too worried about teams signing players after july 1st. Teams will accommodate to get a piece like Heatley.

Finally, if Ottawa does keep Heatley, I won't have many concerns of his play. He's a professional, loves hockey and knows that the Olympics are right around the corner. The guy loves putting on the red and white and he'll be in typical Heatley form whether we trade him or not.

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Old
06-11-2009, 10:34 AM
  #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PDO View Post
No.

Hemsky - 4.1
Heatley - 7.5

Heatley - requesting trade.
Hemsky - happy to be in Edmonton.

If Edmonton brings in Heatley it's to play with Hemsky.

And it'd be Heatley+ for reasons above.

Edit: lol. You added straight up part quickly . Contracts play a huge role here though.
Your acting like Hemsky is as good as Heatley... Thats where the value is made up the price tag and the fact that Heatley asked for the trade.

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Old
06-11-2009, 10:36 AM
  #40
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Edm:
Cogliano/Gagner
Eberle
10th

Ott: Heatley

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Old
06-11-2009, 10:45 AM
  #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by One Trick Pony View Post
I'm thinking Gilbert over Gagner. If the Oilers got Getzlaf in the Pronger deal over Lupul, then we can discuss shipping Gagner to you guys. Otherwise, it isn't really comparable at all.

Gilbert
Eberle
1st round pick in 2010
2nd round pick in 2011
Conditional 1st in 2011
Young cheaply signed offensive Dman who was the third best Ev points producing Dman in the league. Third! Third! Top 20 in points playing Second unit PP and a great breakout pass.

Don't undervalue our assets because a few Oiler fans have a H*** on for your player.

Gilbert would be a good start. But adjust your Package based on the value of the Dmen in the 20 to 10 range in points.

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Old
06-11-2009, 10:51 AM
  #42
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That is a HUGE overpayment from Edmonton. Ottawa is dreaming if they think they will get that value for Heatley. That offer is one you start with to trade for a guy like Malkin, not Heatley. IMO just Gilbert, 10th and a 2nd or Nash would be good value for Ottawa.


Last edited by Chandrashekhar Limit: 06-11-2009 at 11:00 AM.
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Old
06-11-2009, 11:14 AM
  #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oilers_guy_eddie View Post
They'll budge.

Once something like this has become public, it seems unlikely that keeping him is an option.
Or What???? He's signed for another 5 years. We dont get the offer we want, then he could just sit in the box until a bidding war starts.

People keep bringing up Havlat. Havlat was going to walk away a year later as UFA. Which ever team trades for Heatley they we'll atleast have an asset locked up for a number of years

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Old
06-11-2009, 11:22 AM
  #44
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I sincerely hope that Heatley's return isn't one slightly above average player and a bunch of picks/prospects. There is a next season and I'd like to be competitive in it for the sake of our 36 yo captain. Not everything is about potentially, possibly, maybe being good 5 years from now.

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Old
06-11-2009, 11:40 AM
  #45
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I'd be willing to bet whatever team get's Heatley will pay a price, but I doubt it's a steep as Sens fans would like. It's hard to lose one of your stars, but the asking price rarely get's met.

Sens fans after the Heatley = Huge disappointment

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Old
06-11-2009, 12:17 PM
  #46
trentmccleary
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Quote:
Originally Posted by davegagnerskid View Post
I'd be willing to bet whatever team get's Heatley will pay a price, but I doubt it's a steep as Sens fans would like. It's hard to lose one of your stars, but the asking price rarely get's met.

Sens fans after the Heatley = Huge disappointment
Probably, but there's a huge gap between being disappointed and waking up shortly after the deal and realizing that you barely have anything to show for it (Havlat, Luongo, Thornton).

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Old
06-11-2009, 04:20 PM
  #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by saskyoil View Post
A top 10 pick in a deep draft, #3 Dman, and EDMs three top prospects? Take out Eberle or the top 10 pick (both have the same value).
eberle now..... has the same value as a top 10 pick this year?

need clarification

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Old
06-11-2009, 04:49 PM
  #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anasazi View Post
Edm:
Cogliano/Gagner
Eberle
10th

Ott: Heatley
Heatley in exchange for the 3/4 brightest spots in the Oilers future? No thanks. The Sens may only be getting one roster player and I know potential means nothing until it's met but that's just to much. Add them to the prospects Ottawa already has and they're set for a very long time. You don't get that kind of future for a guy that has requested a trade.

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Old
06-11-2009, 04:53 PM
  #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Starnators Fan View Post
eberle now..... has the same value as a top 10 pick this year?

need clarification
Tough to say. He may not be the best choice but he's probably the safest choice. Since being drafted he's lit up WHL, scored arguably the biggest goal in Canadian WJ hockey history, was 3rd in scoring at WJC(only behind Hodgson and Tavares) and also managed to to be a point per game in AHL while being an undersized 18 year old. The 10th overall pick obviously doesn't have a resume.

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Old
06-11-2009, 05:03 PM
  #50
Joey Moss
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OmniSens15 View Post
Counter: Heatley for Souray and 1st 09
I like it as an oilers fan, I think it's a fair deal for both teams actually. a #1 D and a top 10 pick, not bad value.

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