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Old
05-23-2009, 09:36 AM
  #51
BillyShoe1721
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Originally Posted by JXC View Post
Why is he being shown the door in Calgary then?
-Phaneuf regressed majorly, and people are finally seeing that he's not that great.
-They played the entire playoffs without far and away their best defenseman.
-Their best player (Iginla) was being forced to play a style he wasn't suited to. He was on a line with Cammi and Jokinen, where he had to be the playmaker to set up Cammi instead of him being the shooter where he excels.
-Their once top 10 goaltender is on the tail end of his career.

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05-23-2009, 03:14 PM
  #52
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Originally Posted by JXC View Post
Every year, teams try new motivators. Do they ever really succeed?
Yes. Three of the four teams in the Conference Finals showed improvements on the ice after coaching changes this season. The Pens and canes were both in serious danger of missing the playoffs but made incredible turnarounds following coaching changes.

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No, I say that many people here have such hatred for John Stevens that any name, ANY NAME, that pops up as available is seen as a potential Godsend. Then I point out those coaches' records and the haters go scurrying for Old Reliable : "He got results with a mediocre roster!!!". As if there's anyone on this site who could give you chapter and verse on the Minnesota Wild's blueline corps.

A few months back, there were fellas here saying Nolan > Stevens because Nolan almost took the Isles to a playoff berth one year.

"AHL roster," they said, "And he had them competing!"

It's surreal.
How do you measure coaching success if you don't admire the fact that they propelled a team to beat their expectations?

I like Ted Nolan. I think he's one of the few guys without an NHL job that could be a good coach for this team. There's certainly a stigma attached to him, though; he obviously has problems with management that makes him a risky hire.

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"Rightfully so" is in the eyes of the beholder.

Remember when Otttawa fired Paddock and everyone here said: "We should do that too!"

How'd it work out for Ottawa? I wonder what their record is since they brought in new motivation.

Seriously.
That Ottawa failed to have the same success under Hartsburg doesn't mean firing Paddock was the wrong decision. Hartsburg was a poor choice from the beginning; he's struggled at the NHL level with each opportunity he's been given.

Ottawa played much better after they brought in Clouston.

Dig touched on another point here, as well. Coaches are fired after failing to meet expectations because teams can't replace an entire roster but they can replace one coach. Paddock mishandled the Emery drama and it sent a ripple through the locker room. Obviously the Sens' management didn't think they could recover, so they removed both principles.

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I agree. Fans oftentimes lambast coaches because they are fearful of confronting realities about their favorite players.
Fans always pick on coaches because they're an easy target. Fans aren't always incorrect in their displeasure, though.

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05-23-2009, 05:09 PM
  #53
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Originally Posted by BobbyClarkeFan16 View Post
Why not? The guy has a reputation for getting the best out of young players and helping players who haven't achieved their potential reach their potential. Not only that, look at the list of who's who and see who has career years with Keenan as coach. I could see him working magic with Richards, Carter, Giroux, JVR, Coburn, Carle, Sbisa, etc.....The guy just has 'it' with regards to working with young talent.
I think he's a has been.

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Old
05-24-2009, 08:22 AM
  #54
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Originally Posted by CanadianFlyer88 View Post
Yes. Three of the four teams in the Conference Finals showed improvements on the ice after coaching changes this season. The Pens and canes were both in serious danger of missing the playoffs but made incredible turnarounds following coaching changes.
I doubt the Pens were going to miss playoffs, not with two o fthe best three players in hockey on their team.

But true - they did turn their seasons around.

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Originally Posted by CanadianFlyer88 View Post
How do you measure coaching success if you don't admire the fact that they propelled a team to beat their expectations?
WHO here REALLY knows enough about the players on other teams to judge what expectations should be?

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Originally Posted by CanadianFlyer88 View Post
Coaches are fired after failing to meet expectations because teams can't replace an entire roster but they can replace one coach.
True enough. I see that (organizations seeing weaknesses on their rosters, but firing the coach) as flailing.

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05-24-2009, 10:19 AM
  #55
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Originally Posted by JXC View Post
I doubt the Pens were going to miss playoffs, not with two of the best three players in hockey on their team.
FWIW, those two guys were on the team for the first half of the year, when they were not playing well. But in support of your side of things, the Pens also went out and got two new wingers the same time they hired Bylsma, which seemed to help tremendously as well.

I agree with your support of Stevens as a good coach, though I do disagree that he is the answer for the Flyers.


John Stevens was a great coach for the Flyers the last two years, when his style of focusing on improving and playing a good game were as important as winning. Now he has these guys good enough to contend, and he has been with a lot of these guys so long I think they are a little too comfortable with him. It is not a knock on him, I think he has a lot to offer as the coach of a rebuilding team, but a new voice could be used on the Flyers. The Flyers need someone with a more results oriented outlook, who can bring some accountability to the locker room. Tortarella is not available, and some people don't like him, but IMO this is a man's game, and a man should be able to hear and respond to his coach telling him "You sucked today, you need to be better tomorrow". I just dig that blunt honesty. I think that works because he is fair about it, he doesn't just trash guys because they lost. After game 7 against the Caps he didn't throw any players under the bus, he just said, my guys gave me what they had and it wasn't enough.

John Stevens might be able to see all of this himself, but I don't know if you can grow/improve your coaching style with out ringing false to guys you have been coaching for so long. I also don't think it would be reasonable to get in a new guy and to have Stevens continue working in an assistant's role (he'd be great developing players). I think things have run their course and John Stevens time with the organization has been mutually beneficial, but it's time for a ball-breaker in Philadelphia.

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05-26-2009, 09:51 PM
  #56
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Originally Posted by I am The Mush View Post
FWIW, those two guys were on the team for the first half of the year, when they were not playing well. But in support of your side of things, the Pens also went out and got two new wingers the same time they hired Bylsma, which seemed to help tremendously as well.

I agree with your support of Stevens as a good coach, though I do disagree that he is the answer for the Flyers.


John Stevens was a great coach for the Flyers the last two years, when his style of focusing on improving and playing a good game were as important as winning. Now he has these guys good enough to contend, and he has been with a lot of these guys so long I think they are a little too comfortable with him. It is not a knock on him, I think he has a lot to offer as the coach of a rebuilding team, but a new voice could be used on the Flyers. The Flyers need someone with a more results oriented outlook, who can bring some accountability to the locker room. Tortarella is not available, and some people don't like him, but IMO this is a man's game, and a man should be able to hear and respond to his coach telling him "You sucked today, you need to be better tomorrow". I just dig that blunt honesty. I think that works because he is fair about it, he doesn't just trash guys because they lost. After game 7 against the Caps he didn't throw any players under the bus, he just said, my guys gave me what they had and it wasn't enough.

John Stevens might be able to see all of this himself, but I don't know if you can grow/improve your coaching style with out ringing false to guys you have been coaching for so long. I also don't think it would be reasonable to get in a new guy and to have Stevens continue working in an assistant's role (he'd be great developing players). I think things have run their course and John Stevens time with the organization has been mutually beneficial, but it's time for a ball-breaker in Philadelphia.
The one thing I'll give Stevens is that when he took over the team, the locker room was a fractured mess. You had all the young players on one side of the room vs the veterans on the other side of the room. The two sides did not get along with each other and Stevens had to repair that rift. He certainly did his job with regards to that. He's got everyone on the same page and everyone really does like each other.

So, from that standpoint, Stevens did a heck of a job there. Everyone gets along well with one another and there isn't anymore animosity in that locker room. On top of that, he managed to help guys really step up in their game. I know the popular thing around here is to say that another coach had a hand in it, but fact is, most of these guys had career years under Stevens. That's not a deniable point. That's a fact.

With that being said, Stevens has done his job. It's clear he still needs some more grooming in terms of being a head coach. He's still often out coached in most games and he really leaves a lot to be desired in terms of game planning.

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Old
05-26-2009, 11:10 PM
  #57
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Can someone please explain to me how the **** Devils are # 4 in GA in the league with 209 and won Atlantic division with d-men like Martin, Oduya, White, Salvador, Mottau, Green, Havelid, Salmela, and ****ing Clemmensen & Weeks in the net.


Flyers had Timonen, Coburn, Carle, Vaananen 46 games, Jones played 47 games, Alberts, Sbisa, Parent, Kukkonen not to mention Eminger (who was traded) and Biron and Frank in the net.

Is Martin better then Timonen? Or Oduya is better then Coburn? Ok, Devils have solid stay home in White and Salvador but are they that much better then Carle, Vaananen, Alberts or any other combination of d-men Homer got for our genius head coach Stevens.

Maybe Clemmensen is better then Biron? Is that it?

Don't you see system, coaching and zero tolerance for BS from Sutter and Robinson? No seriously, ignore forwards look at their d-men and goalies. Ignore 1st round exit. Canes got lucky there. 51 ****ing wins on the season. Top GA in the NHL, 2nd best in the East. How the **** was it done? Arenít you a little pissed off?

Drop two last games against Rangers and give Pens home ice? Is that coaching?

Explain it to me. I do not understand.


Last edited by Kaktus*: 05-26-2009 at 11:19 PM.
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Old
05-27-2009, 08:20 AM
  #58
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Originally Posted by Kaktus View Post
Is Martin better then Timonen?
No.

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Originally Posted by Kaktus View Post
Or Oduya is better then Coburn?
Defensively, this year? Maybe. Coburn struggled in his own end this past season.

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Originally Posted by Kaktus View Post
Ok, Devils have solid stay home in White and Salvador but are they that much better then Carle, Vaananen, Alberts
Defensively? Well, yeah, they are. Carle was not good defensively, Vaananen sucks, Alberts went through long spells of ineffectiveness.

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ignore forwards...Ignore 1st round exit.
Too convenient for you. Can't ignore the role of forwards on team defense.

And in the playoffs, the Devils had a 2-1 series lead then surrendered 4 goals in each of three of the last four games of the series.

When it counted most, they folded.

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Originally Posted by Kaktus View Post
51 ****ing wins on the season.
The only difference between the Flyers and Devils in the regular season was overtime losses.

Really, "Brent Sutter - The Model"?

It's been debunked.


Last edited by JXC: 05-27-2009 at 08:29 AM.
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Old
05-27-2009, 08:28 AM
  #59
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Originally Posted by I am The Mush View Post
FWIW, those two guys were on the team for the first half of the year, when they were not playing well. But in support of your side of things, the Pens also went out and got two new wingers the same time they hired Bylsma, which seemed to help tremendously as well.
They got Gonchar back, too, a boost similar to the Flyers getting Timonen back.

Quote:
Originally Posted by I am The Mush View Post
John Stevens might be able to see all of this himself, but I don't know if you can grow/improve your coaching style with out ringing false to guys you have been coaching for so long. I also don't think it would be reasonable to get in a new guy and to have Stevens continue working in an assistant's role (he'd be great developing players). I think things have run their course and John Stevens time with the organization has been mutually beneficial, but it's time for a ball-breaker in Philadelphia.
That may be. I am just not a fan of the coaching-go-round.

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Old
05-27-2009, 08:40 AM
  #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaktus View Post
Can someone please explain to me how the **** Devils are # 4 in GA in the league with 209 and won Atlantic division with d-men like Martin, Oduya, White, Salvador, Mottau, Green, Havelid, Salmela, and ****ing Clemmensen & Weeks in the net.


Flyers had Timonen, Coburn, Carle, Vaananen 46 games, Jones played 47 games, Alberts, Sbisa, Parent, Kukkonen not to mention Eminger (who was traded) and Biron and Frank in the net.

Is Martin better then Timonen? Or Oduya is better then Coburn? Ok, Devils have solid stay home in White and Salvador but are they that much better then Carle, Vaananen, Alberts or any other combination of d-men Homer got for our genius head coach Stevens.

Maybe Clemmensen is better then Biron? Is that it?

Don't you see system, coaching and zero tolerance for BS from Sutter and Robinson? No seriously, ignore forwards look at their d-men and goalies. Ignore 1st round exit. Canes got lucky there. 51 ****ing wins on the season. Top GA in the NHL, 2nd best in the East. How the **** was it done? Arenít you a little pissed off?

Drop two last games against Rangers and give Pens home ice? Is that coaching?

Explain it to me. I do not understand.
A lot of times the collective is better then the individual.

A lot of the Devils success defensively has a lot to do with the forwards almost always back-checking hard.

Paul Martin is under-rated and is a #1 D man in the NHL.

Oduya is under-rated and would be top 4 on almost any team.

The Devils defense isn't "sexy" and honestly probably isn't enough to take the team all the way. That said, solid group, missing a piece or 2.

Thanks for the compliments though

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Old
06-10-2009, 10:22 PM
  #61
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Lemaire rejects Tampa's offer
TheFourthPeriod.com

According to the St. Petersburg Times, former Minnesota Wild coach Jacques Lemaire has rejected an offer by the Lightning to join the club as a senior consultant.
Lemaire, 63, has received plenty of interest across the league, and multiple reports have been heading to Montreal to join the Canadiens as an assistant coach.

"[Lightning GM Brian Lawton] showed a lot of interest, and I was pleased about that," Lemaire told the Times. "He told me he really wanted me to be part of the organization. He was very patient."

Newspaper: St. Petersburg Times


From the Editor: Lemaire's been very quiet about his future in the NHL, and while reports link him to re-joining the Habs, where he played for several years, right not it's anybody's guess where he ends up. -- David Pagnotta.

http://www.thefourthperiod.com/news/tbl090610.html

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06-11-2009, 06:39 AM
  #62
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Yes, please.

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06-11-2009, 10:50 AM
  #63
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The rumours section of CNNSI.com was reporting that Lemaire might be headed back to New Jersey. If that's the case, don't expect to see Parise top 80 points in a season there. Lemaire will tighten things up so tight he'll make a nun seem loose........

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06-11-2009, 10:52 AM
  #64
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The rumours section of CNNSI.com was reporting that Lemaire might be headed back to New Jersey. If that's the case, don't expect to see Parise top 80 points in a season there. Lemaire will tighten things up so tight he'll make a nun seem loose........
but it should also make the devils an even bigger pain in the ass to play than they already are.

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06-11-2009, 10:59 AM
  #65
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but it should also make the devils an even bigger pain in the ass to play than they already are.
They'll eventually turn on him though. Coaches like Lemaire have a short life span. He was granted a reprieve in Minnesota because of Risebrough, but if the players have a full out revolt in Jersey, Lamorello will make him walk the plank.

If the Flyers decide to can Stevens, I wouldn't mind seeing Dave Tippet come in here. He's a very good coach and would help tighten things up defensively without sacrificing the offense the team has.

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06-11-2009, 11:03 AM
  #66
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They'll eventually turn on him though. Coaches like Lemaire have a short life span. He was granted a reprieve in Minnesota because of Risebrough, but if the players have a full out revolt in Jersey, Lamorello will make him walk the plank.
Oh, they might turn on him, but they would still be obnoxious for those ~2years.

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If the Flyers decide to can Stevens, I wouldn't mind seeing Dave Tippet come in here. He's a very good coach and would help tighten things up defensively without sacrificing the offense the team has.
Agreed, I like Tippett. He got thrown under the bus, but that circus down there wasn't his idea.

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06-12-2009, 09:18 AM
  #67
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Lemaire interested in Devils' job?
TheFourthPeriod.com

Former Wild bench boss Jacques Lemaire appears to be intrigued by the available head coaching position in New Jersey, reports the St. Paul Pioneer Press.
Lemaire, who won the Stanley Cup with the Devils as a coach in five seasons with the team from 1993-98, might even call the team to inquire about the job, previously held by Brent Sutter.

"If (Devils GM Lou Lamoriello) doesn't call, and I want it, it's me that's going to call," Lemaire told the Pioneer Press. "I first have to ask permission from the (Wild) because I'm under contract (until July 1)."

Earlier this week, Lemaire turned down a consulting job with the Tampa Bay Lightning. The 63-year-old confirmed to the paper that he has also talked with three other teams, none of whom are New Jersey.

"I want to know all what comes with it, you know," Lemaire said. "What type of job, the salary, where I'm going to work from, how long ó this and that."

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