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Old
06-11-2009, 12:20 PM
  #26
The Naz
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Originally Posted by cydawg View Post
Goloubef is our top defensive prospect. We don't have anyone else in the pipeline with his skillset so he'd be close to untouchable.

How about Teddy Ruth? He and Schenn could become an elite shutdown pairing in a few years.
This years 1st oughta get you a nice prospect. I think with Kubina, it's gonna be a sellers market. Asking for a 1st or NEAR blue chipper wouldn't be a stretch, IMO

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06-11-2009, 12:21 PM
  #27
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I hate to give up the mayor but I'd do it for Kubina. We don't have a second though so you'd have to accept a third.

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06-11-2009, 12:21 PM
  #28
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Originally Posted by cydawg View Post
Goloubef is our top defensive prospect. We don't have anyone else in the pipeline with his skillset so he'd be close to untouchable.

How about Teddy Ruth? He and Schenn could become an elite shutdown pairing in a few years.
Ya he sounds ok, but Id still want Goloubef. I think you may be overusing the term "untouchable"

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06-11-2009, 12:33 PM
  #29
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Originally Posted by awright1393 View Post
This years 1st oughta get you a nice prospect. I think with Kubina, it's gonna be a sellers market. Asking for a 1st or NEAR blue chipper wouldn't be a stretch, IMO
True but having two prospects with high end puck moving ability isn't bad for our team, since we've really had terrible defensive depth until recently. But if we're talking about adding Stajan and our first to the proposal, we can't give up Cody.

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06-11-2009, 12:37 PM
  #30
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Not bad but I think I'd rather hang onto those assets and try for a Spacek or Bergeron on the UFA market to help our horrible PP.

If no dice then I look to move some assets to acquire one and would certainly kick the tires on Kubina.

I'm not sure what it is about Mayorov... (probably just his combination of size, skating ability and 2-way potential ) but I'd be hesitant on moving him.. especially in return for a guy that we could only potentially get 1 year out of.

For Goloubef start talkin Kaberle not Kubina.

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06-11-2009, 12:41 PM
  #31
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Originally Posted by Top Shelf View Post
Not bad but I think I'd rather hang onto those assets and try for a Spacek or Bergeron on the UFA market to help our horrible PP.

If no dice then I look to move some assets to acquire one and would certainly kick the tires on Kubina.

I'm not sure what it is about Mayorov... (probably just his combination of size, skating ability and 2-way potential ) but I'd be hesitant on moving him.. especially in return for a guy that we could only potentially get 1 year out of.

For Goloubef start talkin Kaberle not Kubina.
Goloubef, 2nd, and Modin for Kaberle?

Columbus will have to look at MA Bergeron.

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06-11-2009, 01:06 PM
  #32
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Originally Posted by mcphllp View Post
Goloubef, 2nd, and Modin for Kaberle?

Columbus will have to look at MA Bergeron.
I really think 1st this year is going to be required in order to get Kabs.
1st, Goloubef for Kabs.
And why would you include Modin?

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06-11-2009, 01:12 PM
  #33
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Originally Posted by Top Shelf View Post
Not bad but I think I'd rather hang onto those assets and try for a Spacek or Bergeron on the UFA market to help our horrible PP.

If no dice then I look to move some assets to acquire one and would certainly kick the tires on Kubina.

I'm not sure what it is about Mayorov... (probably just his combination of size, skating ability and 2-way potential ) but I'd be hesitant on moving him.. especially in return for a guy that we could only potentially get 1 year out of.

For Goloubef start talkin Kaberle not Kubina.
For Kaberle start talkin Filatov or Voracek not Goloubef.

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06-11-2009, 01:14 PM
  #34
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Yeah i think the 1st and Goloubef seems pretty intriguing to me, for giving up Kabs

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06-11-2009, 01:28 PM
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jfried View Post
For Kaberle start talkin Filatov or Voracek not Goloubef.


He's good, but not that good.

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06-11-2009, 01:29 PM
  #36
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How is Kaberle so much more highly valued than Kubina? He's less physical, worse in his own end, worse shot. Yeah, he moves the puck much better, but seemed to have regressed recently since his injuries and Kubina is no slouch in that department either. Not to mention Kaberle has been with Toronto his whole life and Burke hinted that he'd most likely keep him for the rebuild. Filatov? Voracek? Come the **** on.

I guess if people are so sold on Kaberle, would 1st + Ruth + Modin + Mayorov for Kaberle and Stajan be fair? Columbus could then actually ice 3 respectable scoring lines and be solid on the back end.

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06-11-2009, 01:44 PM
  #37
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Originally Posted by Alex28 View Post
How is Kaberle so much more highly valued than Kubina? He's less physical, worse in his own end, worse shot. Yeah, he moves the puck much better, but seemed to have regressed recently since his injuries and Kubina is no slouch in that department either. Not to mention Kaberle has been with Toronto his whole life and Burke hinted that he'd most likely keep him for the rebuild. Filatov? Voracek? Come the **** on.

I guess if people are so sold on Kaberle, would 1st + Ruth + Modin + Mayorov for Kaberle and Stajan be fair? Columbus could then actually ice 3 respectable scoring lines and be solid on the back end.

This is the main reason why other teams propably need to overpay to get Kaberle. Unlike some leafs fans here (judging from all the kaberle trade proposals), Burke is not dying to get rid of Kaberle and he has said it many times already.

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06-11-2009, 01:50 PM
  #38
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Originally Posted by Viqsi View Post


He's good, but not that good.
Filatov & Voracek are nothing more than projects at this point. You don't get a #1 forward for a guy who meerly has the potential to be a #1 forward. Straight up, the leafs can only lose on value.

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06-11-2009, 01:52 PM
  #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alex28 View Post
How is Kaberle so much more highly valued than Kubina? He's less physical, worse in his own end, worse shot. Yeah, he moves the puck much better, but seemed to have regressed recently since his injuries and Kubina is no slouch in that department either. Not to mention Kaberle has been with Toronto his whole life and Burke hinted that he'd most likely keep him for the rebuild. Filatov? Voracek? Come the **** on.

I guess if people are so sold on Kaberle, would 1st + Ruth + Modin + Mayorov for Kaberle and Stajan be fair? Columbus could then actually ice 3 respectable scoring lines and be solid on the back end.
I'd much rather stick with Kubina personally, with some kind of framework based on the back-and-forth early in this thread.

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06-11-2009, 01:55 PM
  #40
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Originally Posted by Alex28 View Post
I guess if people are so sold on Kaberle, would 1st + Ruth + Modin + Mayorov for Kaberle and Stajan be fair? Columbus could then actually ice 3 respectable scoring lines and be solid on the back end.
From an outside view I would think that would be good value for Kaberle and Stajan. Two of Columbus's top five prospects and a mid first rounder. The only problem I foresee with this is that while the Leafs are getting back Modin, they wouldn't be replacing the production of either Stajan or Kaberle since neither of the prospects seem ready for the NHL and Modin is an aging winger. Stajan is a very capable third line center who is only 25 keep in mind who did have a 50+ point season so Modin would not replace him by any stretch.

While it's good value I don't think the Maple Leafs can pull the trigger because of the fact they just basically gut their team right now.

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06-11-2009, 02:35 PM
  #41
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Originally Posted by jfried View Post
Filatov & Voracek are nothing more than projects at this point. You don't get a #1 forward for a guy who meerly has the potential to be a #1 forward. Straight up, the leafs can only lose on value.
Judging by this statement you cleary have not watched Voracek play. He is definitely not a project. This kid is a NHL player now who will certainly build off a solid rookie campaign.

If Burke is holding out for a young blue chip talent for Kaberle than I say good night and good luck.

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06-11-2009, 02:49 PM
  #42
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That's a pretty good deal for Kubina.
Modin has a no trade contract.

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06-11-2009, 02:55 PM
  #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alex28 View Post
How is Kaberle so much more highly valued than Kubina? He's less physical, worse in his own end, worse shot. Yeah, he moves the puck much better, but seemed to have regressed recently since his injuries and Kubina is no slouch in that department either. Not to mention Kaberle has been with Toronto his whole life and Burke hinted that he'd most likely keep him for the rebuild. Filatov? Voracek? Come the **** on.

I guess if people are so sold on Kaberle, would 1st + Ruth + Modin + Mayorov for Kaberle and Stajan be fair? Columbus could then actually ice 3 respectable scoring lines and be solid on the back end.
Well, for starters, not many NHL defencman can say that they've reached 67 points in one NHL season before...

Its more of Kaberle's history than Anything that makes his Trade value so high IMO. He's also young and signed to a great contract.

My Proposal:
To Columbus: Tomas Kaberle, Matt Stajan
To Toronto: Columbus' 1st 09, Will Weber, Tom Sestito and Michael Blunden/Derek Dorsett

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06-11-2009, 03:02 PM
  #44
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Originally Posted by Hntrmn View Post
Well, for starters, not many NHL defencman can say that they've reached 67 points in one NHL season before...

Its more of Kaberle's history than Anything that makes his Trade value so high IMO. He's also young and signed to a great contract.

My Proposal:
To Columbus: Tomas Kaberle, Matt Stajan
To Toronto: Columbus' 1st 09, Will Weber, Tom Sestito and Michael Blunden/Derek Dorsett
You'd do that as a Toronto fan? I mean I think its about right value but it crushes your team this year. Who replaces Kaberle and Stajan? Is Tlusty ready to make the leap and be a night in and night out player in the NHL and replace Stajan's production? I dont know if Burke trades away two of his most valuable pieces for nothing that helps him now in the least bit...

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06-11-2009, 03:31 PM
  #45
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Originally Posted by Hntrmn View Post
Well, for starters, not many NHL defencman can say that they've reached 67 points in one NHL season before...

Its more of Kaberle's history than Anything that makes his Trade value so high IMO. He's also young and signed to a great contract.

My Proposal:
To Columbus: Tomas Kaberle, Matt Stajan
To Toronto: Columbus' 1st 09, Will Weber, Tom Sestito and Michael Blunden/Derek Dorsett
Well, other teams aren't gonna look at Kaberle's history. They'll look at what Kaberle represents now and what he would bring to their team. Which, IMO, would be less than Kubina.

Also Columbus will need to dump salary.

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06-11-2009, 03:33 PM
  #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jfried View Post
Filatov & Voracek are nothing more than projects at this point. You don't get a #1 forward for a guy who meerly has the potential to be a #1 forward. Straight up, the leafs can only lose on value.
Problems with your statement:
1) Kaberle is a defenseman, not a forward. He's also over 30, while those guys are both under 20. Ten to thirteen years of prime forward doesn't necessarily compare well to three to five years of prime defenseman.
2) Either one of those has greater potential upside than Kaberle's ever achieved.
3) Did you watch Voracek play at all? He isn't really a project anymore. He's more like a second-liner that may/probably will eventually blossom into an All-Star. Even if he never improves again, he's got significant value as he is right now.
4) Filatov is widely acknowledged as one of the best prospects in the NHL - THE best according to a few sources (THN in particular).

If you're talking simply straight up, yes, that's a bad trade - for both parties involved. Please do not attempt to sell it as exclusively a Columbus ripoff, though. This is wrong.

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Old
06-11-2009, 03:33 PM
  #47
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Originally Posted by jfried View Post
Filatov & Voracek are nothing more than projects at this point. You don't get a #1 forward for a guy who meerly has the potential to be a #1 forward. Straight up, the leafs can only lose on value.
So are Tavares, Hedman and Duchene.

Why don't you try flipping Kaberle for one of those picks and see how that works out.

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06-11-2009, 03:34 PM
  #48
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Originally Posted by vecens24 View Post
You'd do that as a Toronto fan? I mean I think its about right value but it crushes your team this year. Who replaces Kaberle and Stajan? Is Tlusty ready to make the leap and be a night in and night out player in the NHL and replace Stajan's production? I dont know if Burke trades away two of his most valuable pieces for nothing that helps him now in the least bit...
Taylor Hall.

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Old
06-11-2009, 03:36 PM
  #49
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Originally Posted by Double-Shift Lassť View Post
I'd much rather stick with Kubina personally, with some kind of framework based on the back-and-forth early in this thread.
That's what I think too, but for some reason everyone is high on Mr. Neutral Zone.

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06-11-2009, 03:36 PM
  #50
The Naz
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Originally Posted by Alex28 View Post
Well, other teams aren't gonna look at Kaberle's history. They'll look at what Kaberle represents now and what he would bring to their team. Which, IMO, would be less than Kubina.

Also Columbus will need to dump salary.
so are you thinking a 30yo dman is old? Cause most of them get better in their 30's. I don't know for sure but most Norris winning dmen are over 30. It's a position that is best played with experience. An offensive dman is best suited to an offensive team. We may have been at the top of the league in scoring, but it was a lot of garbage-bang-em-in type goals. Not a lot of well practised PP type goals. Kabs would be best suited playing with a couple of offensive stars. Not Stajan or Grabs as his offensive options.

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