I think the PP had more to do with there not being any sort of skill whatsoever than him not being that good. He doesnt have a rocket from the point but for his entire career he has been able to get the puck on net and has a good shot for deflections.
I know it is frustrating, and I feel the same way. I just don't like the booing, unless it is for Sather.
Redden makes good plays every game. He is good at making the forst pass from his own zone and at creating space down low by taking a hit and moving the puck. The problem I saw last season was that the forwards were all of 2 feet from him. Its hard to spring any forward for any sort of offense when the forwards are all so low concentrating on defense all the time. He is an offensive defenseman, it would be like putting a player like Plekanec on a defensive oriented team or if the Rangers had signed Streit he most likely would have looked out of place as well. I think he will look better if the team plays a more aggressive style. He will get more points and while he still may not fully live up to his ridiculous contract he will come closer to it.
At this point ill be happy with 20 goals, I just want something, ANYTHING better than what, 8 goals? and I hate to focus on just one thing but I want to see either the goals go up, his assists go up ( a LOT), or he damn well had better become our best shutdown defenseman.
Anyway, glad this didn't turn into a flame fest (especially with a thread topic like this). I'll give him a clean slate next year, but that's it, fool me once...well, you know the rest.
And for the record, I don't support dumping him to Hartford.
At this point ill be happy with 20 goals, I just want something, ANYTHING better than what, 8 goals? and I hate to focus on just one thing but I want to see either the goals go up, his assists go up ( a LOT), or he damn well had better become our best shutdown defenseman.
Anyway, glad this didn't turn into a flame fest (especially with a thread topic like this). I'll give him a clean slate next year, but that's it, fool me once...well, you know the rest.
And for the record, I don't support dumping him to Hartford.
Thats the leash I am giving him as well. One more season. After that I would definitely want him out of here. I think something like 12-15 goals and 25-30 assists is well within his reach if the team startsto score some goals.
Hey the last time we had a Dman making this kind of money was Brian Leetch so excuse us Ranger fans if we don't like what we see with this guy for the cap space he takes up on our team. Like the OP said though he is here and it's doubtfull he is going anywhere so I hope Torts can help him refind his game, cause he was at one point a very very good dman.
At this point ill be happy with 20 goals, I just want something, ANYTHING better than what, 8 goals? and I hate to focus on just one thing but I want to see either the goals go up, his assists go up ( a LOT), or he damn well had better become our best shutdown defenseman.
8 goals? He scored 3. 3 goals for a offensive defenseman. That's over 2 million per goal. For what he's getting paid he better put up 20 goals and 60+ points. But he won't
Some people here are wanting to cut Redden WAY too much slack IMO. The guy has been paid huge dollars for many years. He signed another huge dollar contract with NYR. He knew what he was getting into. The first thing even a casual fan will do is reward effort. Good effort gets cheered, poor effort gets booed. End of story.
He's soft, lackadaisical (sp?), and largely ineffective. All for one of the highest pay rates of any NHL defenseman. Damn right he's going to be booed.
He's a good player, I think everyone knows this. But the questions right now are; can he fit into this team, and if so, can he play up to his full potentail? If Wade Redden were playing like Wade Redden, I'd have absolutely no problem with his paycheck.
Yeah you would. You don't dish out 39 mill over 6 years for a guy who's:
1. 32 years old and on the decline judging by his last 2 years in Ottawa
2. never finished top-10 in points amongst D-man (highest rank is 12 - 05/06)
3. is not an outstanding playoff perfomer by any means (45 points in 94 playoffs games)
4. is no stud on defence. He's OK and thats about it.
5. is somewhat soft.
8 goals? He scored 3. 3 goals for a offensive defenseman. That's over 2 million per goal. For what he's getting paid he better put up 20 goals and 60+ points. But he won't
He never put up those kinds of numbers, his career best was 50 points in 05-06 with ten goals also with over a pt/game in the playoffs. No one should hate Redden or dislike him, he is what he is. You wanna blame someone and boo at the games call out the guy who handed him the contract because you wouldn't turn it down either. I have no doubt other teams were interested in Wade last summer (Dallas) but I am also sure no one offered him the kind of cash we did, I would think they offered him somethin similar to what Rozsival got because thats what he should have gotten judging his stats.
He never put up those kinds of numbers, his career best was 50 points in 05-06 with ten goals also with over a pt/game in the playoffs. No one should hate Redden or dislike him, he is what he is. You wanna blame someone and boo at the games call out the guy who handed him the contract because you wouldn't turn it down either. I have no doubt other teams were interested in Wade last summer (Dallas) but I am also sure no one offered him the kind of cash we did, I would think they offered him somethin similar to what Rozsival got because thats what he should have gotten judging his stats.
Calgary offered the same exact contract to Redden. Dallas offered 6 yrs 6 mill per. He chose NY, lucky us!
I am 100% in the "let's get behind Redden" camp. We're stuck with him. We can embrace that, get behind him, hope a little confidence boost can help him keep up the play we saw at the end of last year which, while not worth $6.5M, was still solid play or we can get on him and boo him out of the gate, make it so that he will never feel at home in NY and be stuck with a broken defenseman that's not even capable of turning in a $4M effort. I think booing your own players is idiotic. We can cheer for Redden (or ignore him) and hope he plays like the (roughly) $3-4M d-man he was playing like for Torts or we can boo him into oblivion, which won't make him go away, and see him play like a 7th d-man all year. I'm gonna be cheering and hope he catches a little confidence and settles in his second year.
I just love the notion that apparently Tortorella is God. According to some of you, he must be, considering he's going to be responsible for the revitilazation of Redden's career, even though the largest factor in Redden's decline is that he's one of the slowest skaters in the league. Can't wait to see how Tortorella plans to turn a 32-year-old into a faster skater.
It's not about him being lazy, it's not about him not working hard. He's slow. In the old NHL, that didn't matter. There was no requirement for him to be a faster skater, because the pace of the game was different. It's no surprise that his decline came with the post-lockout NHL, when speed became a premium quality. Redden has never been fast, and I'm fairly confident in assuming that he never will be, which is why he will never be particularly good.
Yet again, another reason to believe that Sather doesn't even watch the games, at least not other teams. Either that, or he simply doesn't understand basic concepts of the sport anymore, because anyone that watched Redden play his last two years in Ottawa could have seen, easily, how he simply couldn't keep up. How he no longer had the time and space to make things happen offensively, because quicker forwards were putting more pressure on him. How he couldn't keep up with said forwards as they blew around him every time their teams had the puck.
Add to that the fact that he just plays such an emotionless, uninvolved game, it's no wonder people dislike him. They should dislike him, because he's not very good. And whoever wants to can believe that's going to change, but I'm not holding my breath. I don't see John Tortorella turning Wade Redden into the Flash.
And for the record, I don't boo my own team's players very often, but I can understand it. Booing the player isn't necessarily booing him, it could simply be a way to indicate that it's the managerial decision to bring that player in that is being questioned. It's not like fans see Sather enough to boo him directly. Booing Redden tells Sather (this is working under the fans' assumption that Sather gives a flying **** about what they think, which I'm sure he doesn't) you're unhappy with his decision to sign Redden.
I just love the notion that apparently Tortorella is God. According to some of you, he must be, considering he's going to be responsible for the revitilazation of Redden's career, even though the largest factor in Redden's decline is that he's one of the slowest skaters in the league. Can't wait to see how Tortorella plans to turn a 32-year-old into a faster skater.
It's not about him being lazy, it's not about him not working hard. He's slow. In the old NHL, that didn't matter. There was no requirement for him to be a faster skater, because the pace of the game was different. It's no surprise that his decline came with the post-lockout NHL, when speed became a premium quality. Redden has never been fast, and I'm fairly confident in assuming that he never will be, which is why he will never be particularly good.
Yet again, another reason to believe that Sather doesn't even watch the games, at least not other teams. Either that, or he simply doesn't understand basic concepts of the sport anymore, because anyone that watched Redden play his last two years in Ottawa could have seen, easily, how he simply couldn't keep up. How he no longer had the time and space to make things happen offensively, because quicker forwards were putting more pressure on him. How he couldn't keep up with said forwards as they blew around him every time their teams had the puck.
Add to that the fact that he just plays such an emotionless, uninvolved game, it's no wonder people dislike him. They should dislike him, because he's not very good. And whoever wants to can believe that's going to change, but I'm not holding my breath. I don't see John Tortorella turning Wade Redden into the Flash.
And for the record, I don't boo my own team's players very often, but I can understand it. Booing the player isn't necessarily booing him, it could simply be a way to indicate that it's the managerial decision to bring that player in that is being questioned. It's not like fans see Sather enough to boo him directly. Booing Redden tells Sather (this is working under the fans' assumption that Sather gives a flying **** about what they think, which I'm sure he doesn't) you're unhappy with his decision to sign Redden.
Good post Stingray, I agree that its hard to picture Redden turning his game completely around, but I think he'll be improved from what we saw most of last season.
But I won't boo the team when they're still in games competing. If they're down 5-0 after the 2nd period, yeah, boo away. But down one goal in the 3rd and fans are still booing him is asinine.
Before Redden every set foot on MSG ice this entire board was predispositioned to putting Redden into the whipping boy role. Why is this? Well, because he's on the decline and management gave him one hell of a terrible contract. It all boils down to dollars and cents. If Wade Redden signed a 3 year deal worth $3m/year, suddenly people have different expectations of what that player will do. But, since he's making $6.5m or whatever, then he has that following him and people automatically will have a negative opinion on him.
He's overpaid, slow, and on the decline. But, he is still a decent player. Problem is, you don't pay decent players that much money, you save it for a superstar and that's the problem.
And as for people saying you shouldn't boo the players...bleh, I say boo when a boo is due, which it was on Redden for about half the season. But, when that player starts playing better, give it a rest already.
Before Redden every set foot on MSG ice this entire board was predispositioned to putting Redden into the whipping boy role. Why is this? Well, because he's on the decline and management gave him one hell of a terrible contract. It all boils down to dollars and cents. If Wade Redden signed a 3 year deal worth $3m/year, suddenly people have different expectations of what that player will do. But, since he's making $6.5m or whatever, then he has that following him and people automatically will have a negative opinion on him.
He's overpaid, slow, and on the decline. But, he is still a decent player. Problem is, you don't pay decent players that much money, you save it for a superstar and that's the problem.
And as for people saying you shouldn't boo the players...bleh, I say boo when a boo is due, which it was on Redden for about half the season. But, when that player starts playing better, give it a rest already.
These points that you state in ur post & many more have been gone over & over again, we have beaten this subject to death, I do think we would still be killing him at $3 million too, honestly he is being paid all that money to be an offensive defensemen, which he is doing a poor job. If he was bei g paid $3 million he would be considered a defensive defensemen & he is poor in that role too, so either way he is getting killed.
When non supporting members had the ablity to have quotes in there postings I had this as my quote the Day Redden was signed:
"Wade Redden will be our version of Alexi Yashin"
Nothing I have seen of Redden before he came to NY or his 1st year in NY lead me to believe he will ever get better, or live up to that Contract, it doesn't matter to me if it was $3 million or his current deal, he shouldn't even be in the leauge at this point. He is barely hanging on to his NHL career.
GP/78 G/32 A/43 PTS/75 Yashin's first season with the Sticks, not a bad season. Ok, he was GROSSLY over paid (as is Redden), but do you think Redden will ever put up comparable defenseman numbers to that? I think the Redden deal is worse than Yashin! Being, at the risk of redundancy, for the added poisoning reason that he is an albatros cap wise.
At the very least the Isle'ers had a few bright spots with Yashin. Now, I do not "dislike" Redden personaly (I do not know the man), but I fear we are going to see, barring an act of God or the supernatural, average (at best) play from Redden for the next season or two. I do not want to even think about the three seasons beyond that...if the decline trend is to continue. Which I fear it will. Just adding to the Coleridge-ian albatros analogy.
But, as many know and have already stated, Sather is the real cancer of this team, and untill he is gone, this team will remain a mediocre one. Unfortunately we cannot boo Sather (again, as stated, he does not give a ****), but I find it difficult to boo the sweater., no matter what player is wearing it.
A side note: my first post here after lurking for some time. Greets to all.
Last edited by Doctor Strange: 06-12-2009 at 01:45 AM.
Reason: grammer
GP/78 G/32 A/43 PTS/75 Yashin's first season with the Sticks, not a bad season. Ok, he was GROSSLY over paid (as is Redden), but do you think Redden will ever put up comparable defenseman numbers to that? I think the Redden deal is worse than Yashin! Being, at the risk of redundancy, for the added poisoning reason that he is an albatros cap wise.
At the very least the Isle'ers had a few bright spots with Yashin. Now, I do not "dislike" Redden personaly (I do not know the man), but I fear we are going to see, barring an act of God or the supernatural, average (at best) play from Redden for the next season or two. I do not want to even think about the three seasons beyond that...if the decline trend is to continue. Which I fear it will. Just adding to the Coleridge-ian albatros analogy.
But, as many know and have already stated, Sather is the real cancer of this team, and untill he is gone, this team will remain a mediocre one. Unfortunately we cannot boo Sather (again, as stated, he does not give a ****), but I find it difficult to boo the sweater., no matter what player is wearing it.
A side note: my first post here after lurking for some time. Greets to all.
Welcome
If I may ask, where is that latitude and longitude?
If I may ask, where is that latitude and longitude?
Thank you for the welcome.
"latitude and longitude"...I am a bit of an odd-ball (I live up to the nick-name). It is the supposed location of a sunken city from a series of short fiction stories by author H.P. Lovecraft...
In reality, it is nothing but ocean (N/NW of the coast of Antarctica). OR is it!?
Actually, I am in Sheapshead Bay, Brooklyn.
Last edited by Doctor Strange: 06-12-2009 at 02:42 PM.
Reason: Clarification
Of course it is Sather's fault, but embrace Redden? I can't see a reason to do that, and I don't think anyone else in the league does either.
Escort him out the door maybe, if the stars align.
Looking at the structure of our team -- like our best forward is Gomez and he makes 7m and isn't any good; we have Lundqvist at 7m; Staal will get the big cash next summer; Drury who is a solid 3rd line center makes 7m; etc et c et c -- Redden just cannot be a part of this team at 6m if, or if make that when, the cap goes down.
Unless Slats can move Rozsival and Drury.
Like this are facts:
1. Realistically Cally, Staal and Dubinsky will get 6-7m more then comming two summers. Dubinsky and/or Cally might take cheap 1 year deals, but not cheap 2 year deals. Torts will ride Marc Staal and that will turn Marc into a 4-5m D atleast next summer. Cally is playing well enough to get a couple of mils sooner or later.
2. The cap is gooing down 7m atleast. And thats a extremely moderate number.
3. We aren't even remotely good enough to be able to loose 2-3 prominant players (for us atleast) every summer and still get into the PO's without beeing able to replace them. If anything, we need to get a helluva lot better. Add 2-3 prominant players in the leauge every summer.
So for the good of the team -- if anyone ever should be booed in MSG its Wade Redden. Or Chris Drury. Inorder to help Slats ship them out. Rozsival have to go anyway IMO, but he is probably moveable without any concerns. Like Redden can be dumped in HFD but that would give us a huge negative hit in other areas, like in the room and in the hockeyworld. Drury is our captain.
Kevin Weekes and Marek Malik were booed without having played 1 second of hockey in NY. Maybe the same should be doen to Redden this camp...
Im sorry but that is a completely in accurate statement. Give me something to back that up becuase thats so out of whack its not even funny. 1-2 at MOST.
Calgary offered the same exact contract to Redden. Dallas offered 6 yrs 6 mill per. He chose NY, lucky us!
Gotta wonder how some of these gms get thier jobs, I mean even if he refound his old game he isn't worth that much. He isn't worth more than Nick Lidstrom and Chris Pronger.
