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So you really want Hossa eh!!

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Old
06-13-2009, 12:45 AM
  #51
Shred
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Originally Posted by MTL-rules View Post

Anyway, none of these guys are franchise players and we won't win anything without one, that's why offering the moon for Vinny should be the plan AA.
No one noticed that Lecavalier has only 67 points this year and is likely still injured from last year when his production really dropped towards the end of the year? And if he can only get 67 points while healthy that's not the kind of guy we want to pay 8M a year for a lifetime.

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06-13-2009, 12:55 AM
  #52
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Originally Posted by Shred View Post
No one noticed that Lecavalier has only 67 points this year and is likely still injured from last year when his production really dropped towards the end of the year? And if he can only get 67 points while healthy that's not the kind of guy we want to pay 8M a year for a lifetime.
There are guys like Ovechkin, Malkin, Crosby, Datsyuk, Zetterberg, Kovalchuk...

then a couple notches down from there you have Lecavalier. To me he is not even an elite player. Just a great one. I'd love to have him here but I don't see him as good as everybody else does. Even St-Louis is a better player than Vinny.

flame away...

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06-13-2009, 01:09 AM
  #53
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Originally Posted by peperebougon View Post
There are guys like Ovechkin, Malkin, Crosby, Datsyuk, Zetterberg, Kovalchuk...

then a couple notches down from there you have Lecavalier. To me he is not even an elite player. Just a great one. I'd love to have him here but I don't see him as good as everybody else does. Even St-Louis is a better player than Vinny.

flame away...
Well Lecavalier was dominating 2 years ago when he got 52 goals and 108 points, then last year he started very well and was in the top scorers after half the year. That's when french media and guys like Jacques Demers started hyping him like hell and calling him the best player in the league, and it seems like in a lot of people's minds he still is that player. However, since his injury he hasn't shown that at all. He already has a cup, and seems content chilling in TB, and who wouldn't in his place... just saying this isn't a guy we want to give the moon to, he isn't even worth his contract the way he's been playing this year.

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06-13-2009, 05:02 AM
  #54
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i watched the game. Lol, Hossa's the biggest loser in the NHL.

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06-13-2009, 05:44 AM
  #55
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Originally Posted by MTL-rules View Post
He's still a great player, but I wouldn't build a team around him.
This. If you already have a team with a good number of good/great players and sufficient leadership, Hossa is one of the best final pieces you could add to the mix.

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Old
06-13-2009, 06:40 AM
  #56
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Originally Posted by Madvillainy View Post
Wait, Osgood is supposed to be cocky ? Have I missed something or what ? (I've been working a lot lately, missed most games).
I dont know where that poster got the idea that osgood is cocky. He strikes me as a calm, cool, and composed character. I can see how a 4 time stanley cup champion may become cocky, but that doesn't fit osgood's persona. He seems to deflect attention away rather than to crave it.

If anything, osgood might go down as one of the most under appreciated goalies in the history of the nhl... but a cocky SOB? No.

As for Hossa, I like him as a player, but I also dont want to give him the "go to guy" type of salary which he is going to command. I cant picture him being the guy who puts the team on his back and guides the troops. He is a damn good supporting player though... perhaps top 3 in the league in that category

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06-13-2009, 06:51 AM
  #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bialo Czerwoni View Post
Yes indeed, one good year while playing with Crosby. Did you miss the previous 10 years?
Well considering he was pretty good with the Sens in 2002 and in 2003....

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06-13-2009, 07:45 AM
  #58
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Originally Posted by Hackett View Post
I dont know where that poster got the idea that osgood is cocky. He strikes me as a calm, cool, and composed character. I can see how a 4 time stanley cup champion may become cocky, but that doesn't fit osgood's persona. He seems to deflect attention away rather than to crave it.

If anything, osgood might go down as one of the most under appreciated goalies in the history of the nhl... but a cocky SOB? No.

As for Hossa, I like him as a player, but I also dont want to give him the "go to guy" type of salary which he is going to command. I cant picture him being the guy who puts the team on his back and guides the troops. He is a damn good supporting player though... perhaps top 3 in the league in that category
The problem with guys like Hossa and Thornton is that they command superstar money only to become support players during the playoffs and that's a big no-no in the salary cap era where you can't really have a super stacked team for a long time.

Those guys are the type of players that if they played on a dynasty they would go in the HOF not because they were go-to guys but because they played on dominant teams.

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06-13-2009, 11:42 AM
  #59
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Originally Posted by PatTraverse View Post
The problem with guys like Hossa and Thornton is that they command superstar money only to become support players during the playoffs and that's a big no-no in the salary cap era where you can't really have a super stacked team for a long time.

Those guys are the type of players that if they played on a dynasty they would go in the HOF not because they were go-to guys but because they played on dominant teams.
So.... what have you done for me lately mentality still applies here ?

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06-13-2009, 11:57 AM
  #60
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So.... what have you done for me lately mentality still applies here ?
According to Hab fans it applies here, everywhere and to everyone.

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06-13-2009, 11:57 AM
  #61
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Originally Posted by Takabru View Post
I would think now Hossa is a jinx. You may get to the final with him but you will lose it.
He got to the final and lost by 1 goal in the last possible game.

It even came down to the last shot of the game with 2seconds left when Fleury had to make a great save.

I'll gladly take on that jinx.

Not like Pittsburgh destroyed Detroit, far from it.

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Old
06-13-2009, 11:58 AM
  #62
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Originally Posted by peperebougon View Post
There are guys like Ovechkin, Malkin, Crosby, Datsyuk, Zetterberg, Kovalchuk...

then a couple notches down from there you have Lecavalier. To me he is not even an elite player. Just a great one. I'd love to have him here but I don't see him as good as everybody else does. Even St-Louis is a better player than Vinny.

flame away...
Datsyuk Zetterberg and Kovalchuk are not in the same categoty as the first 3. The first 3 are legit superstars, the next year are only stars.

How does great not equate to elite? You have a strange definition there, I'd classify great above elite.

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Old
06-13-2009, 12:03 PM
  #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PatTraverse View Post
The problem with guys like Hossa and Thornton is that they command superstar money only to become support players during the playoffs and that's a big no-no in the salary cap era where you can't really have a super stacked team for a long time.

Those guys are the type of players that if they played on a dynasty they would go in the HOF not because they were go-to guys but because they played on dominant teams.
You can't put the same label on Hossa as Thornton has. Yeah he struggled in the finals, maybe his conscience had the best of him...but last year he was 1 point from leading Pittsburgh in scoring and before the finals he was right up there with the top scorers on Detroit. He has 76 career points in 98 career games including 41 the last 43 games the last 2 years.

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Old
06-13-2009, 12:12 PM
  #64
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Originally Posted by PatTraverse View Post
The problem with guys like Hossa and Thornton is that they command superstar money only to become support players during the playoffs and that's a big no-no in the salary cap era where you can't really have a super stacked team for a long time.

Those guys are the type of players that if they played on a dynasty they would go in the HOF not because they were go-to guys but because they played on dominant teams.
Support player??..people have criticized Hossa only because he was with Pittsburgh last year.

His production ceased this year when he reached the finals. He had 3pts in 7GP (just like Crosby btw). But before he had 12pts in 16GP, which isn't too bad.

Datsyuk had 9pts in 16GP this year, did he drop back into a secondary role??..No. It's not because their production dropped that they weren't playing well. Babcock himself said he was satisfied with Hossa.

Last year Hossa scored 26pts in 20GP (he was also playing 2min more a game).
The man is a great hockey player on any team.

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Old
06-13-2009, 12:18 PM
  #65
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Originally Posted by Carey Price View Post
Datsyuk Zetterberg and Kovalchuk are not in the same categoty as the first 3. The first 3 are legit superstars, the next year are only stars.

How does great not equate to elite? You have a strange definition there, I'd classify great above elite.
There's only Ovechkin that has a better ratio of Goals For per Games Played than Kovalchuk.

Put Kovalchuk on a good team (the Habs in 2 years) and you'd really see him turn it up.

He's part of my top 5 without any doubt.
-Malkin
-Crosby
-Ovechkin
-Zetterberg
-Kovalchuk

Zetterberg is there because none of the other players come close to being as complete as he is.

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Old
06-13-2009, 01:37 PM
  #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PatTraverse View Post
The problem with guys like Hossa and Thornton is that they command superstar money only to become support players during the playoffs and that's a big no-no in the salary cap era where you can't really have a super stacked team for a long time.

Those guys are the type of players that if they played on a dynasty they would go in the HOF not because they were go-to guys but because they played on dominant teams.
Before the Habs can shine in the playoffs they first have to get into them. Players like that would greatly enhance their chances of getting there. Then you never know.

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06-13-2009, 02:58 PM
  #67
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Originally Posted by Carey Price View Post
Datsyuk Zetterberg and Kovalchuk are not in the same categoty as the first 3. The first 3 are legit superstars, the next year are only stars.

How does great not equate to elite? You have a strange definition there, I'd classify great above elite.
great above elite????

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Old
06-13-2009, 03:26 PM
  #68
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Some Canadiens fans in here are beyond pathetic. Yeah, **** these 40 goals scorers. Like we had a lot of 'em the last decade...

Last time I checked, hockey is a team sport. Hossa may not have been good in the finals, but he's not the reason the Red Wings lost the finals. And for the record, I laughed out loud when the Red Wings lost.

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06-13-2009, 04:30 PM
  #69
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Unfortunately for us, a bad Hossa is much better than a whole lot of players we have, or still have....or might have....

Even if our team would be intact, I would love to know how many wingers are better than an average Hossa?

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06-13-2009, 11:12 PM
  #70
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... he had 40 goals in the regular season to lead Detroit.

We need that 40 goal scorer, so I'd take him on the Habs any day.

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Old
06-14-2009, 03:29 AM
  #71
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If a player in Hossa's caliber chooses to show interest playing for Montreal, it would be hard to believe Habs turn him down. He might not be the clutch guy in final rounds, but he would certainly put the team into better position for it, instead of just making it into 8th seed.

But since he was denied the Cup again, theres no danger. He will propably wants to join contender for another run at it.

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Old
06-14-2009, 03:54 AM
  #72
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Give me Hossa anyday, with Kovalev, Koivu, Higgins, Kostitsyn, Plekanec as a supporting cast, I think that team is as close as you can get to a Cup, without actually having played the season yet. I kid of course, but that's my ideal vision for next year. I think Hossa playing a leading role for once, and Koivu and Kovalev playing in reduced spotlight can be what the Canadiens need next season. Let's not kid ourselves, the media put a lot of shine on Hossa and all, but Zetterberg and Datsyuk are the main guys in Detroit. Hossa was a huge cog there, but he was part of the Red Wings "machine", something no other team can really recreate. I think the Habs are only a few pieces away from having their own.

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Old
06-14-2009, 06:20 AM
  #73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
Support player??..people have criticized Hossa only because he was with Pittsburgh last year.

His production ceased this year when he reached the finals. He had 3pts in 7GP (just like Crosby btw). But before he had 12pts in 16GP, which isn't too bad.

Datsyuk had 9pts in 16GP this year, did he drop back into a secondary role??..No. It's not because their production dropped that they weren't playing well. Babcock himself said he was satisfied with Hossa.

Last year Hossa scored 26pts in 20GP (he was also playing 2min more a game).
The man is a great hockey player on any team.
Pittsburgh was and is crosby/malkin's team

Detroit is zetterberg/datsyuk/lidstrom's team

Hossa was a supporter for both these teams. Like I said, he is probably a top 3 support player in this league. Besides the finals he just had, he generally excels in this role. The problem is that he's going to command very high salary, and I'm not comfortable with the habs building a foundation where they make this Hossa's team.

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Old
06-14-2009, 08:27 AM
  #74
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Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
Support player??..people have criticized Hossa only because he was with Pittsburgh last year.

His production ceased this year when he reached the finals. He had 3pts in 7GP (just like Crosby btw). But before he had 12pts in 16GP, which isn't too bad.

Datsyuk had 9pts in 16GP this year, did he drop back into a secondary role??..No. It's not because their production dropped that they weren't playing well. Babcock himself said he was satisfied with Hossa.

Last year Hossa scored 26pts in 20GP (he was also playing 2min more a game).
The man is a great hockey player on any team.
Ask Détroit fans if they were satisfied with Hossa during these playoffs and they will pretty much all tell you no and i agree with them.I mean did you watch any Wings game before the finals?You should know that stats don't always tell the whole story yet you come here saying "Look guys!Hossa had quite a few points so obviously he must have been good!".

The guy is a scorer yet he only scored in each game 4 before the finals.When it got tough during the playoffs Hossa was nowhere to be found and instead support players like Franzen, Cleary, Samuelsson ect had to pick up the slack.

It's no wonder the Wings lost game 6 and 7, the support players stopped scoring and more than ever they needed their stars to shine but they failed to deliver and that includes Hossa.

Also about Crosby and his production in the finals, it's true that he did very little but he carried his team during parts of the playoffs.Remember the first two games in the Washington series?Only Crosby produced and after a while the other players saw what he was doing and followed him.

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Old
06-14-2009, 08:34 AM
  #75
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Originally Posted by Uber Coca View Post
Some Canadiens fans in here are beyond pathetic. Yeah, **** these 40 goals scorers. Like we had a lot of 'em the last decade...

Last time I checked, hockey is a team sport. Hossa may not have been good in the finals, but he's not the reason the Red Wings lost the finals. And for the record, I laughed out loud when the Red Wings lost.

Verty well said. I'd give him 6-7 mil per year on a 4-5 year contract any day.

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