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Proposal: Rozsival

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Old
06-14-2009, 02:41 PM
  #76
Jack Bourdain
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Originally Posted by MathMan View Post
I'm confused.

If his physicality doesn't create chances, how did he ever manage to be second to Tanguay in goal-scoring when divided by icetime?

I mean, Lats crams a lot of goals and hits in the quite limited time he spends on the ice. Everyone calls him slow, so clearly that would mean he doesn't have time to do a lot of stuff in-between his hits and his goals. If the hits don't lead to goals, and the goals certainly don't lead to hits, how does he manage to be so hitty and so effective at the same time?

If his physical game doesn't help him be one of the best goal-scorers on the team (and BTW, he crams more goals in his icetime than both Lucic and Getzlaf!), then what makes him so good at putting the puck in the net?

It doesn't compute.
His linemates do all the work (Lapierre) and he just has to tap it in. Many times he fans on his chances, or else he would have even more goals.

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06-14-2009, 03:01 PM
  #77
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Originally Posted by Jack Bourdain View Post
His linemates do all the work (Lapierre) and he just has to tap it in. Many times he fans on his chances, or else he would have even more goals.
Did you just claim that Maxim Lapierre was a playmaker capable of making Latendresse into -- not just a competent goal-scorer, but the second-best goal-scorer on the whole team?

Wouldn't Lapierre be loaded with assists if that were the case? Does it makes sense that Lapierre doesn't produce nearly as many assists as Lats does goals? Why doesn't Lapierre produce more assists than Latendresse?

Why don't they give that excellent playmaker Lapierre a real goal-scorer to play with so that there isn't so much whiffing on chances, rather than saddle him with Latendresse and Kostopoulos -- why isn't he feeding the puck to Kovalev or Kostitsyn, instead?

Speaking of linemates, why is Kostopoulos potting goals at less than half the rate of Latendresse? What's he doing that keeps him from scoring nearly as much as Latendresse?

Any particular way that you explain how Lats' high goal-scoring rate has been going on for three years now?

And if you're somehow right and Laps is providing Lats with tap-in goals, wouldn't that require Lats to be basically near the net, somewhere you accuse him of not going to enough?

This keeps getting more confusing.

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Old
06-14-2009, 03:09 PM
  #78
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Originally Posted by 100th View Post
i would prefer the Habs to keep Latendresse and sign Beauchemin .
So typical

The great all-mythical French Quebecer!!!! Bow down!!!


Come on, use a bit of logic instead of your ever-so annoying patriotic fiber. If we indeed lose Komisarek, we'll need size on the right side because the rookie Dmen coming in next season are very good pucking moving Dmen (Weber or Subban) but also small, and Beauchemin won't bring size either, as he's about the same height as both Weber and Subban.

The only way I see Beauchemin fitting in, is that if we lose Komi, we sign J-Bo. I don't see Beauchemin fitting on the lineup any other way, if we consider we need puck moving D with size. And Roszival has more size and moves the puck better than Beauchemin.

And as seen with the present playoffs, its better to have more puck moving Ds than less.

Rozsival isn't that bad of an idea, if we can't (and probably won't) get J-Bo. Although I wouldn't trade Lats to get him.

Carle + Chipchura for Roszival?

As for his cap hit, its not like he's making 6-7 mil. Its much easier to have several players at 5 million cap hits, than 2-3 players at 6-7 mil cap hit who are overpaid. And his contract is up in three years, its not like we're taking on a contract of 4+ seasons.

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Old
06-14-2009, 03:19 PM
  #79
Jack Bourdain
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Originally Posted by MathMan View Post
Did you just claim that Maxim Lapierre was a playmaker capable of making Latendresse into -- not just a competent goal-scorer, but the second-best goal-scorer on the whole team?

Wouldn't Lapierre be loaded with assists if that were the case? Does it makes sense that Lapierre doesn't produce nearly as many assists as Lats does goals? Why doesn't Lapierre produce more assists than Latendresse?

Why don't they give that excellent playmaker Lapierre a real goal-scorer to play with so that there isn't so much whiffing on chances, rather than saddle him with Latendresse and Kostopoulos -- why isn't he feeding the puck to Kovalev or Kostitsyn, instead?

Speaking of linemates, why is Kostopoulos potting goals at less than half the rate of Latendresse? What's he doing that keeps him from scoring nearly as much as Latendresse?

Any particular way that you explain how Lats' high goal-scoring rate has been going on for three years now?

And if you're somehow right and Laps is providing Lats with tap-in goals, wouldn't that require Lats to be basically near the net, somewhere you accuse him of not going to enough?

This keeps getting more confusing.
Yeah, because you keep putting words in other peoples mouth?

Latendresse benefitted from playing with Koivu and a red hot Lapierre, his game went up when those players played well. A simple statement, but you make stupid suppositions that distort what I said. Lapierre played better hockey then Latendresse and he benefitted fully from being his line partner this past season. Lapierre would probably get more assists this season (I can't say for the unforseen future) if he played with a winger that would get those easy tap-ins that Latendresse missed.

Latendresse is near the net, but does it do it effectively? He has improved over the past 3 seasons, but come on, even Koivu has better net presence then him (despite being considered by many our "guy with stone legs").

Latendresse's goal rate has gone up because he has grown more confident and he has benefitted from improvements from himself and from Maxim Lapierre. Are you telling me that it's Latendresse who made Lapierre better this season?

You see I can make suppositions too, and I can pin them blindly on you.

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06-14-2009, 03:22 PM
  #80
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Originally Posted by youarentobjective View Post
If you want to bring up young defense prospects you need a vet to pair with them or you risk that young defenseman being overwhelmed at the NHL level. Rosival has helped both Staal and Girardi develop at the NHL level. Montreal has some good, young defenseman who might make the NHL this year. I'd rather have a reliable vet with them.
Roszival makes far too much to become 3rd pairing babysitter. If Habs trade for someone like him it would be for, in a way, for replacing Komisarek in our top 4.

I think we can find more economic (even better) substitute for Bouillon, Brisebois and Dandenault roles.

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06-14-2009, 03:58 PM
  #81
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Originally Posted by Jack Bourdain View Post
Yeah, because you keep putting words in other peoples mouth?
I did no such thing. You wrote this: "His linemates do all the work (Lapierre) and he just has to tap it in. Many times he fans on his chances, or else he would have even more goals." Direct quote.

So if Lapierre does all the work and Lats just has to tap-in (and according to you, he often flubs), doesn't that make Lapierre an excellent playmaker? And don't my questions make sense in that context, whether Lapierre can pass or not?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack Bourdain View Post
Lapierre played better hockey then Latendresse and he benefitted fully from being his line partner this past season. Lapierre would probably get more assists this season (I can't say for the unforseen future) if he played with a winger that would get those easy tap-ins that Latendresse missed.
Isn't that saying exactly what you accused me of putting into your mouth.

Lapierre plays better hockey than Latendresse? Unfortunately for you, the facts on record tend to disagree with your observation. I think we have observer bias at work, here...

I notice you haven't explained why Kostopulos has less than half the goal-scoring as Latendresse while playing with Lapierre. Lapierre should be doing "all the work" for Kostopoulos as well, right? And why they didn't put a better goal-scorer than Latendresse to better benefit from Lapierre's potential assists. After all, surely the Habs have someone who can bury more of those "easy tap-ins", right?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack Bourdain View Post
Latendresse is near the net, but does it do it effectively?
He's the second-best goal-scorer on the team. He must be doing something effectively.

This is why your "Latendresse often fans on Lapierre's chances" comment makes no sense. Somehow, despite his purported finishing incompetence, he managed to outscore everyone on the team not named Tanguay at even-strength. And he managed to pot more goals for his icetime than Milan Lucic and Ryan Getzlaf did.

Lapierre must be providing Lats with as many chances than Joe Thornton would, for him to whiff "often" and still get that many goals.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack Bourdain View Post
Latendresse's goal rate has gone up because he has grown more confident and he has benefitted from improvements from himself and from Maxim Lapierre. Are you telling me that it's Latendresse who made Lapierre better this season?
Offensively? Lapierre actually was not better offensively than last season. His assist rate actually went down, and his goal-scoring rate went up but not as much. He improved defensively, though, so I'm not worried about him -- he is a defensive forward after all, unlike Latendresse.

Latendresse's goal-scoring rate went up between 07-08 and 08-09, but it was still very high last season (he was actually above Plekanec's and Kostitsyn's, and near Kovalev's). Latendresse being a good goal-scorer is not some new development that we can thank Lapierre for; Latendresse has been scoring goals at a high rate ever since he's been in the NHL.

You seem to be under the mistaken impression that Latendresse's offense drastically improved in 08-09 and you are crediting his linemates for it, particularly Lapierre. The reality is that while Latendresse's numbers went up, consistently with an improving young player, there wasn't some dramatic upsurge that you could latch on some external factor like Lapierre.

He's just been steadily improving from his excellent rookie numbers -- not bad considering the rest of the team's scoring went down.

Besides, I distinctly remember that line's offensive production going down significantly when Lats was injured. Lapierre is a very good defensive forward, but let's not pretend he's driving offense on his line when he clearly is not. There's a reason Latendresse outproduces him.


Last edited by MathMan: 06-14-2009 at 04:10 PM.
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Old
06-14-2009, 04:13 PM
  #82
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Originally Posted by youarentobjective View Post
Montreal has some good, young defenseman who might make the NHL this year. I'd rather have a reliable vet with them.
The Habs already have Markov and Hamrlik for that. Hamrlik was Phaneuf's partner in Calgary.

Roszival is right-handed, so he'd have to either play alongside one of these guys, or else play on the third-pairing -- and he makes way too much for that. Actually, he makes too much for what he brings generally.

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Old
06-14-2009, 05:34 PM
  #83
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In a perfect world yes I too want to make the best with 10 million.
We then agree not to pursue this Rozsival proposal as we already have one overpaid defenseman in Hammer, right, especially with a shrinking salary cap?

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06-14-2009, 05:53 PM
  #84
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We can probably sign a better defensemen than Rozsival without having to deal Latendresse or anyone else and for a similar or smaller cap hit.

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06-14-2009, 06:07 PM
  #85
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Originally Posted by FlyingKostitsyn View Post
We can probably sign a better defensemen than Rozsival without having to deal Latendresse or anyone else and for a similar or smaller cap hit.
Highly doubtful. Rosival is pretty good and has held his own against the young star forwards in the East. There are probably 2 or 3 teams that actually have non ancient, top 4 defenseman they can afford to move.

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06-14-2009, 06:42 PM
  #86
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Originally Posted by Jack Bourdain View Post
His linemates do all the work (Lapierre) and he just has to tap it in. Many times he fans on his chances, or else he would have even more goals.
Now I'm really beginning to wonder if you either haven't really paid much attention to Latendresse's play, or your so biased against him, somehow it's clouded your view, but this is the second statement you've made that clearly seems to suggest you're unfamiliar with him as a player.

His linemates (Lapierre) do all the work? I'm a big fan of Maxim's, and I think he made incredible progress this year as a player, but are you honestly suggesting it's his playmaking work that led to Latendresse's goals this year? That's just plain not true.

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06-14-2009, 06:44 PM
  #87
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Highly doubtful. Rosival is pretty good and has held his own against the young star forwards in the East. There are probably 2 or 3 teams that actually have non ancient, top 4 defenseman they can afford to move.
There's many defenseman as good or better available, and a lot of them will come cheaper then Rosie.

Plain and simple, I don't want this guy on our team, he's just not nearly good enough for what he's being paid.

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Old
06-14-2009, 09:57 PM
  #88
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Besides, I think the upgrade the Habs needed on D has already been made.

Behind the bench.

I don't think it was really a player personnel problem.
i agree with this. Our problems this year were more due to the system or lack of system. Our was very strong just last year with the same players. They didnt suddenly forget all how to play defense. This year, we should be back as a top defensive team.

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06-14-2009, 10:48 PM
  #89
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Yea I would never do this.

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06-15-2009, 08:00 AM
  #90
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My I make a scary proposal (and since it includes Rozival, I though this could be right thread):

New York Rangers
Out: Scott Gomez, Michael Rozsival
In: Roman Hamrlik, Georges Laraque
Cap Effect: -5,357 million for 2009/10-2010/11, -12,357 million for 2011/12 and +7,357 for 2012/13-2013/14

Montreal Canadiens
Out: Roman Hamrlik, Georges Laraque
In: Scott Gomez, Michael Rozsival
Cap Effect: +5,357 million for 2009/10-2010/11, +12,357 million for 2011/12 and +7,357 for 2012/13-2013/14

Habs would change Hamrlik to quite similar player in Rozsival, but Rozsival is cheaper (by 500k for next two seasons although signed for one season longer) and younger (4 years).

Habs also get 1st line center, although slightly overpaid. Still, Gomez is great playmaker so shouldn't he work nicely with A.Kost on his wing?

For the upcoming season, the trade would leave Habs approximately 25 million of cap room to sign:
- 2nd line center
- 4 top-9 wingers
- 2 bottom-6 players
- 2 top-4 defencemen

Looking at most likely costs:
- Koivu (4 years) or Plekanec (3 years?), my guess 3.5 million [2nd line center]
- Latendresse (2-3 years), my guess 1.5-1.7 million [3rd line winger]
- Higgins (3 years?), my guess 2.1-2.5 million [2nd/3rd line winger]
- Chichura, my guess 1.2 million [4th line center/winger]
- Stewart, my guess 0.7 million [4th line winger]

Even that would leave Habs with 15.4 million to sign:
- Tanguay/Kovalev/UFA [1st/2nd line winger]
- UFA/Kovalev/Tanguay [1st/2nd line winger]
- Bouwmeester/Komisarek/Beauchehim/other UFA [1st pairing defenceman]
- Schneider/Beauchehim/other UFA [2nd pairing defenceman]

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Old
06-15-2009, 09:15 AM
  #91
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Originally Posted by youarentobjective View Post
Reading here it seems Habs fans are in agreement that the team needs help on defense.

How about Rosival and a second for Latendresse. Rosival can play top 4 minutes and handle physical play. He can move the puck as well. 3 years at 5 million left on his contract and considering how bad defenseman are around the league making close to that, he probably could help your defense out a lot.

I'd gladly take Rosival!!! He is a good defencemen and he is a good powerplay guy too. He would definitely give our defence and powerplay a good boost. I'd prefer him over Schneider because of age, unless Schneider is willing to sign for $2 million a season....but if he wants $5 million a year, I'd rather take Rosival.

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Old
06-15-2009, 09:34 AM
  #92
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Originally Posted by Noldo View Post
My I make a scary proposal (and since it includes Rozival, I though this could be right thread):

Hamrlik for Roszival is pretty close, but Gomez for healthy scratch doesnt make sense. He more than slightly overpaid, for someone whose scored only once over 70 points long term contract with 7+ million cap hit is plenty. Thats a lot of money tied on a player who is "just" a good player, hes just not tradeable when the cap is coming down. Finally that 15.4 million is enough for maybe only two of the needs you listed.

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Old
06-15-2009, 11:03 AM
  #93
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Comparing Lucic's physical size with Lats is ridiculous. Lucic scares defensemen on opposing teams. 85% of Latendresse's hits happen when his "victim" already passed the puck and the hits aren't big at all.

And Getzlaf's skills >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Lats'

Not even close. Latendresse won't become a mix of 2 other players, he'll be the same Fatty we've watched for the last 3 years, even if he improves his game. I wouldn't even label him a power forward. PF uses their size and strength to make room for themselves when they have the puck or in front of the net. Lats is a big forward who plays like a small guy who hits a lot, nothing more. Lapierre, for instance, is 10 times better than he is at puck possession and battles along the boards.
This 1000+. I've made my views known about Lats a number of times - no need to keep going into it.

How about we trade Lats & a 2nd or 3rd for Jack Johnson. You think L.A.'s management is as delusional as Habs fans?

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