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It will be unacceptable to lose Komisarek

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06-14-2009, 05:51 PM
  #1
holyhabs87
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It will be unacceptable to lose Komisarek

As a younger fan, I remember when we drafted Komisarek, we were told this guy would be one of our top 2 defensemen for years to come. He brought grit, leadership and many intangibles necessary to help a team win.

At that same time, there was also hype about another defenseman that was supposed to be probably better but nevertheless a fixture on our blue line for a while. His name was Ron Hainsey. We lost him for nothing.

So two players who were expected to be 2 of our best defenseman, probably right around this time, will not even be with the team any longer with no immediate replacements and nothing in return for their loss.

What about Valentenko and Emelin...we hear all this great stuff about them, and with Emelin it has been a few years now. Yet both are not even the damn country.

Now we have David Fisher...what is going on with him? We drafted a kid with no pro experience. It is quite dissapointing to read that he is not even progressing much.

So our new Hainsey and Komisarek is now Subban and McDonaugh. Will we go down the same path with these two? Will we lose both of them before either of them, arguably, reach their prime?

I am tired of the excuses. I am sure there will be some for Komisarek but can you really tell me these situations were unavoidable? ..there is little to no progression with this team. A mainstay at mediocrity for how many years now? Youngsters not developping. It is unnaceptable in my opinion.

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06-14-2009, 05:57 PM
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Kriss E
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First of all, we didn't ''lose'' Komisarek. He's still part of our organization as of today.

I also don't consider it a loss if another team signs him for 5-6M.

Explain why McDo and Subban are going to be lost too?

Fischer could still possibly make it, but mistakes do happen as well.

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06-14-2009, 05:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by holyhabs87 View Post
As a younger fan, I remember when we drafted Komisarek, we were told this guy would be one of our top 2 defensemen for years to come. He brought grit, leadership and many intangibles necessary to help a team win.

At that same time, there was also hype about another defenseman that was supposed to be probably better but nevertheless a fixture on our blue line for a while. His name was Ron Hainsey. We lost him for nothing.

So two players who were expected to be 2 of our best defenseman, probably right around this time, will not even be with the team any longer with no immediate replacements and nothing in return for their loss.

What about Valentenko and Emelin...we hear all this great stuff about them, and with Emelin it has been a few years now. Yet both are not even the damn country.

Now we have David Fisher...what is going on with him? We drafted a kid with no pro experience. It is quite dissapointing to read that he is not even progressing much.

So our new Hainsey and Komisarek is now Subban and McDonaugh. Will we go down the same path with these two? Will we lose both of them before either of them, arguably, reach their prime?

I am tired of the excuses. I am sure there will be some for Komisarek but can you really tell me these situations were unavoidable? ..there is little to no progression with this team. A mainstay at mediocrity for how many years now? Youngsters not developping. It is unnaceptable in my opinion.
I agree with you that it would really suck to lose Komi for nothing as we have with other players in the past. Unfortunately, it's part of hockey and not specific to the Canadiens. It happens to many teams the draft and develope their prospects but ultimately the players are free to do what they want when their contracts expire. I'd love to keep him but not at the detriment of the entire team. Where as many players are willing to stay for market or even give a hometown discount, if Komi doesn't feel that way then Gainey should let him walk, sad as that may be. Sometimes you have to make the hard decsion.

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06-14-2009, 05:59 PM
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Originally Posted by holyhabs87 View Post
Now we have David Fisher...what is going on with him? We drafted a kid with no pro experience. It is quite dissapointing to read that he is not even progressing much.
This is where I stopped reading your post. I can't wait to see your next pointless rant in two weeks when we draft more kids with no pro experience.

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06-14-2009, 06:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
First of all, we didn't ''lose'' Komisarek. He's still part of our organization as of today.

I also don't consider it a loss if another team signs him for 5-6M.

Explain why McDo and Subban are going to be lost too?

Fischer could still possibly make it, but mistakes do happen as well.
It is a loss if another team signs him, it doesn't matter who signs him and for how much. Some team will offer him more than what he's worth that's for sure.

The thing is, we shouldn't be at the point where we are right now, fighting to keep Komi against the market. He should have been signed to a more reasonable contract earlier this year, or even to a long term contract last year, I don't get how Bob didn't sign him earlier...I am happy with Gainey as a GM, but please god stop using that stupid policy.

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06-14-2009, 06:02 PM
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Em Ancien
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No it wouldn't.

That's how a salary capped league works.

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06-14-2009, 06:03 PM
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holyhabs87
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I am not saying it will happen to those 2 as well...but if it happened to hainsey and komi who were both drafted higher, why not? I sure as hell never expected to be in such a position a few years ago.

And I do consider it a loss, just like I consider Streit a loss. Both situation were VERY EASY TO AVOID. Bob had to stick to his policy and it cost us...not once..it looks like twice. Obviously, Bob has no problems making exceptions since he signed Saku. So after the year Komisarek had last year I think an exception could have been made. 4yr/16mil?

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06-14-2009, 06:03 PM
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slow summer...

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06-14-2009, 06:06 PM
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holyhabs87
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Originally Posted by Schooner Guy View Post
This is where I stopped reading your post. I can't wait to see your next pointless rant in two weeks when we draft more kids with no pro experience.
I meant the kid was still in high school...my bad. He was still playing against boys. I should have phrased it better.

Check my posts..I don't just create a new whine thread every 2 weeks.

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06-14-2009, 06:06 PM
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In a cap world where the cap will be shrinking for the next two years, what would be unacceptable would be to overpay for Komisarek as much as I like the guy.

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06-14-2009, 06:08 PM
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Kriss E
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Quote:
Originally Posted by holyhabs87 View Post
I am not saying it will happen to those 2 as well...but if it happened to hainsey and komi who were both drafted higher, why not? I sure as hell never expected to be in such a position a few years ago.

And I do consider it a loss, just like I consider Streit a loss. Both situation were VERY EASY TO AVOID. Bob had to stick to his policy and it cost us...not once..it looks like twice. Obviously, Bob has no problems making exceptions since he signed Saku. So after the year Komisarek had last year I think an exception could have been made. 4yr/16mil?
That could be right for Streit, but he wanted a Guarantee to play on his natural Defense side. Something Gainey simply couldn't promise and with reason.

If you look at every single one of our main UFA, they would have all cost us more had we re-signed them earlier this year.
We also have no idea what Komi's plans would have been during the season. Maybe him and Gainey did have talks, maybe they decided on something that is now pushed back due to the sale..etc..
We simply don't know what's going on, so it's useless to speculate.

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06-14-2009, 06:08 PM
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It's a no win situation potentially. His market value is elevated because he played in Montreal. If he played for the Islanders, nobody would even know his name.

I think Chara led the league in hits when he played for the Islanders, remember. The only reason anyone knew of him at the time was because of his height. It was a surprise that he had that many hits to a lot of people I talked to at the time. I knew because I saw him play on Long Island (along with Berard, who was ostracized because of his risky style at the time).

I'd love to have him back for the right price and I also wish him luck at finding the right contract for him. It's a business too. But look at the contract Alfie took. Look at some of the Red Wing contracts. If you want to win, you have to sacrifice a bit. In the long run, he would get this money back and more perhaps if he stays in Montreal for his proper value at the moment.

Hockey in Montreal is not like hockey on Long Island or elsewhere. But there's a trade-off no matter what he does. We have excellent depth right now. If we can add someone via UFA, then we can be a contender. But we don't have draft position to do that. So it will all depend on a trade or UFA for us.

So, he can sign for the Islanders or whomever and get a couple extra mil over the longterm of the contract that he'd likely get down the road if he stayed here anyway, and have his role elevated. Or he can get comparable money and stay in the proper role for his style and excel and continue to develop into that elite shut-down guy he has the potential to be.

He's a smart guy, I'm sure he'll make the right choice.


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06-14-2009, 06:13 PM
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Kriss E
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Originally Posted by Komi4Vezina View Post
It is a loss if another team signs him, it doesn't matter who signs him and for how much. Some team will offer him more than what he's worth that's for sure.

The thing is, we shouldn't be at the point where we are right now, fighting to keep Komi against the market. He should have been signed to a more reasonable contract earlier this year, or even to a long term contract last year, I don't get how Bob didn't sign him earlier...I am happy with Gainey as a GM, but please god stop using that stupid policy.
In the Cap world, the salary is in direct correlation with whether or not it's a loss.

Komi signed at 6M is a burden, not an asset. He's not worth that much at all and down the road could be more of a headache. Like Redden in NYR.

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06-14-2009, 06:16 PM
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Speaking as a Bruins fan, I'd love to see Komisarek back on the Habs. I think he's looking for a large contract and someone will give it to him. Going after someone like Bouwmeester for 2M more, or lesser players like Boynton, Kuba, Schneider would be a smarter idea, IMO.

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06-14-2009, 06:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by holyhabs87 View Post
I am not saying it will happen to those 2 as well...but if it happened to hainsey and komi who were both drafted higher, why not? I sure as hell never expected to be in such a position a few years ago.

And I do consider it a loss, just like I consider Streit a loss. Both situation were VERY EASY TO AVOID. Bob had to stick to his policy and it cost us...not once..it looks like twice. Obviously, Bob has no problems making exceptions since he signed Saku. So after the year Komisarek had last year I think an exception could have been made. 4yr/16mil?
Totally wrong IMO.

Streit wasn't a question of dealing with him before the season ended. You actually don't seem to understand the process of what Gainey does. If he would've signed Streit, he would've limited himself in the changes he could've done at the end of the season. You can't just always re-sign your players. The team had needs to be filled, and consequently left an open door to be able to get a #1 center, as shown by Gainey,s attempts at getting Sundin. Gainey also wanted to add some top end talent by getting Tanguay. If he would've signed Streit right away, then it would limit the moves he could make.

Now, not signing him in the season, doesn't mean you can't sign him in the off-season. And the reason Streit didn't sign here is not because we didn't want him or he didn't want to come back, it was a question of bad timing, as the Habs couldn't offer (in terms of playing time) what Streit wanted. Streit wanted to play D 100% of the time, but he couldn't do it effectively (rather did it awfully) on the right side. So it was either use him as a huge liability on the right side, or use him on the left side on the 3rd pairing at 3 mil per, which isn't good in the cap era.

As for Komi... THANK GOD Gainey didn't sign him a year ago for so many reasons.

If we lose Komi, its gonna be because of the system.

You can't compare his case and Streit's case to those of Hainsey and others before the cap era.

Did we lose Markov??? NO. So its not the norm to lose our Dmen. Some decisions have to be made, and sometimes it sucks, but that's life, deal with it.

The Habs will survive without Komi. Look at Detroit, look at Pittsburg. Most Ds are puckmoving Ds. A defensive D is easier to develop than an offensive minded one. With all due respect, stop being such an alarmist dude.

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06-14-2009, 06:17 PM
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holyhabs87
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Yes, but komisarek was a particular case.

His play declined yet the amount we have to offer this year will be much higher than what we would have had to offer last year. Because of Koivu and Kovalev's age, it was a gamble you can take and Tanguay should receive around the same amount if not less.

Hamrlik's contract is really terrible.

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06-14-2009, 06:22 PM
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holyhabs87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
In the Cap world, the salary is in direct correlation with whether or not it's a loss.

Komi signed at 6M is a burden, not an asset. He's not worth that much at all and down the road could be more of a headache. Like Redden in NYR.
where did this 6 million dollar number come from????

not one player who we could characterize komi as makes anywhere near that amount.

and if he does get offered that then it will be by a team that has no chance at winning next year like the islanders. i really hope he doesnt choose them over us. even if we have some question marks, i would like to think our future is a little brighter.

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06-14-2009, 06:43 PM
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I hope Komi does not come back - what for ?

To get his head bashed in by Lucic again ? was embarassing for any Hab fan.

We need to move on, and he should go to Florida where the hockey is not so serious...

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06-14-2009, 06:55 PM
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ya he played great this past season, definitely deserves a huge contract.

he really want to stay and become the next captain? take the reasonable contract gainey will offer you. want to go play in the swamp for the next 5 years? nice to know you.

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06-14-2009, 06:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by koivu View Post
I hope Komi does not come back - what for ?

To get his head bashed in by Lucic again ? was embarassing for any Hab fan.

We need to move on, and he should go to Florida where the hockey is not so serious...
At least he stood up and fought him.

If he wants 5.5-6, then it's acceptable. If he wants 4.5-5 then I'd take him back... probably (4.5 for sure) and 4, or less, hell yes.

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06-14-2009, 07:00 PM
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Komi is a good defenceman worth about 3.5 per and thats about it.
If someone offers him 6-7 then why not start a price war and 10 for 10 per sounds about right Since I hate the Leafs most then I hope Burke offers that contract. Wait?? why not more. 12 for 12

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06-14-2009, 07:16 PM
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Kriss E
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Originally Posted by holyhabs87 View Post
where did this 6 million dollar number come from????

not one player who we could characterize komi as makes anywhere near that amount.

and if he does get offered that then it will be by a team that has no chance at winning next year like the islanders. i really hope he doesnt choose them over us. even if we have some question marks, i would like to think our future is a little brighter.
It is common belief that if he re-signs here it'll be around 3-4.5M. Anything more than that he'll get from another team.

It is quite rare for a player to leave his current team only to get paid the same amount or less.

People that hit open market as UFA usually get over paid, so it's fair to assume that Komi would do the same.

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06-14-2009, 07:20 PM
  #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by holyhabs87 View Post
Yes, but komisarek was a particular case.

His play declined yet the amount we have to offer this year will be much higher than what we would have had to offer last year. Because of Koivu and Kovalev's age, it was a gamble you can take and Tanguay should receive around the same amount if not less.

Hamrlik's contract is really terrible.
It's always easy to speculate, but who knows if Komisarek would have signed a contract a year ago? We don't have the big picture so we can't criticize all the time.

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06-14-2009, 07:25 PM
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I think its unacceptable to overpay, based on a players draft position and size.

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06-14-2009, 07:26 PM
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At this point I think it is unlikely that Komisarek is signed. Hopefully Gainey trades his rights and we get an extra pick in the draft. If he doesn't get a pick for the rights then he deserves to get some flack for losing another defensive asset for nothing.

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