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Expressen: Sedins ask for $63 million over 12 years each - Sedin Contract Talks Here

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06-14-2009, 05:33 PM
  #301
timw33
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Originally Posted by Diamonddog01 View Post
I'm not, in fact the longer this goes on (them remaining unsigned) the better the chances of them ending up on a different team.

Teams have lost players to unrestricted free agency before, and will in the future. It is not the end of the world, or the demise of this franchise.

We'll be just fine.
We'd still be in tough for the offseason if we lose our two best offensive players without getting any return for them.

Then we'd have to hope that we are able to sign two top line players and/or a quality on the UFA market without giving them cap crippling contracts.

And since we are so successful at luring top UFAs.....

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06-14-2009, 05:35 PM
  #302
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Originally Posted by timw33 View Post
We'd still be in tough for the offseason if we lose our two best offensive players without getting any return for them.

Then we'd have to hope that we are able to sign two top line players and/or a quality on the UFA market without giving them cap crippling contracts.

And since we are so successful at luring top UFAs.....
You are forgetting Sundin and Demitra?

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06-14-2009, 05:53 PM
  #303
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Originally Posted by timw33 View Post
We'd still be in tough for the offseason if we lose our two best offensive players without getting any return for them.

Then we'd have to hope that we are able to sign two top line players and/or a quality on the UFA market without giving them cap crippling contracts.

And since we are so successful at luring top UFAs.....
Right. Just as our defense turned to crap after losing Ed Jovonoski a few years back.

Oh noes! Whatever will we do? The sky is falling! The sky is falling!

We'll be fine. I have no concerns about the Sedins not being on this team next year.

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06-14-2009, 06:01 PM
  #304
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Who the hell was saying the sky was falling when we lost Jovo?

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06-14-2009, 06:14 PM
  #305
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Originally Posted by hlrsr View Post
Who the hell was saying the sky was falling when we lost Jovo?
Probably the same chicken littles who are getting anxious now.

Basically no Sedins means a much busier offseason for our GM, and depending on the results of his efforts, we could become better or perhaps drop a few spots in the standings. Should be an interesting offseason.

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06-14-2009, 06:15 PM
  #306
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Right. Just as our defense turned to crap after losing Ed Jovonoski a few years back.

Oh noes! Whatever will we do? The sky is falling! The sky is falling!

We'll be fine. I have no concerns about the Sedins not being on this team next year.
3 years after Jovo left and we're still lacking a puck moving defenseman.

Once again, who would replace the Sedins? Keep in mind that losing our best offensive players will not lure Hossa here anytime soon.

So Gaborik? Do we sign Gaborik to a 7-8 mil deal for 40 (best case scenario) games a year?

Burrows-Kesler-Demitra
Grabner-Hodgson/Wellwood/Sundin-Bernier.

It's safe to assume that Burrows and Kesler will probably not match their offensive output next season without the Sedins and Sundin (if he doesnt sign). Either way, the Canucks will be in tough to at least make the Playoffs.

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06-14-2009, 06:18 PM
  #307
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Originally Posted by Diamonddog01 View Post
Probably the same chicken littles who are getting anxious now.

Basically no Sedins means a much busier offseason for our GM, and depending on the results of his efforts, we could become better or perhaps drop a few spots in the standings. Should be an interesting offseason.
Or drop right out of the playoffs. Or gets really desperate and overpays big time on other players to try to replace the Sedins.

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06-14-2009, 06:21 PM
  #308
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Originally Posted by Cocomero View Post
3 years after Jovo left and we're still lacking a puck moving defenseman.

Once again, who would replace the Sedins? Keep in mind that losing our best offensive players will not lure Hossa here anytime soon.

So Gaborik? Do we sign Gaborik to a 7-8 mil deal for 40 (best case scenario) games a year?

Burrows-Kesler-Demitra
Grabner-Hodgson/Wellwood/Sundin-Bernier.

Jesus Christ, hf pisses me off sometimes.
And 3 years after Jovo left 6.5 million would've been an overpayment by Vancouver and would've left us worse off (both from a points perspective and a cap management one) had we committed that money to him long-term.

Gaborik for 7-8 million? LOL.

Seriously, you guys need to relax and untwist those panties. There are numerous options available, especially if we decide to move Bieksa.

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06-14-2009, 06:25 PM
  #309
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And 3 years after Jovo left 6.5 million would've been an overpayment by Vancouver and would've left us worse off (both from a points perspective and a cap management one) had we committed that money to him long-term.
That was an error by Nonis in not making any attempts to re-sign him earlier.

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Gaborik for 7-8 million? LOL.
I know LOL huh? So why should the Canucks sign him?

Quote:
Seriously, you guys need to relax and untwist those panties. There are numerous options available, especially if we decide to move Bieksa.
Like....? Please list these other options, be realistic when you do so and remember, you're trying to make a competitive team.

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06-14-2009, 06:28 PM
  #310
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Originally Posted by timw33 View Post
We'd still be in tough for the offseason if we lose our two best offensive players without getting any return for them.
I agree with this


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Originally Posted by Diamonddog01 View Post
And 3 years after Jovo left 6.5 million would've been an overpayment by Vancouver and would've left us worse off (both from a points perspective and a cap management one) had we committed that money to him long-term.

Gaborik for 7-8 million? LOL.

Seriously, you guys need to relax and untwist those panties. There are numerous options available, especially if we decide to move Bieksa.
And this.

Losing the Sedins is obviously going to be a challenge going forward no matter how you slice it. This is not a case like Naslund or Morrison were, in which it was almost addition by subtraction. They are productive, durable and reliable. However this team is not an automatic cellar dweller without them. Gillis will be forced to test some of our youth, and dip into the UFA market for some more talent. It would obviously make a more difficult off season for the management, but I agree the sky will not fall without the twins. I want Gillis to try very hard to get them signed, but only if the deal allows flexibility enough to continue to improve this squad.

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06-14-2009, 07:06 PM
  #311
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Originally Posted by Cocomero View Post
It's safe to assume that Burrows and Kesler will probably not match their offensive output next season without the Sedins and Sundin (if he doesnt sign). Either way, the Canucks will be in tough to at least make the Playoffs.
Last year it was safe to say we were doomed because we had no offence and no chance unless Luongo was the best goalie in the universe. Now, when it's convenient, it's safe to make up another assumption. In June no less.

There are so many variables and so many situations that none of us are privy to that making a list of players that could replace the Sedins is pointless. Would we be better? Maybe. Maybe not. But Dan & Hank are not irreplaceable.

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06-14-2009, 07:10 PM
  #312
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Probably the same chicken littles who are getting anxious now.
Not that I'm getting "anxious" (I do think Gillis will have a plan should he decide to let them walk), but I really don't recall the situations being comparable. I'm really quite curious to see how many people had done an assessment of our team, the trade market, the free agent market, etc. and concluded that likely our best option was to pay Jovo market-ish value. I don't remember that sentiment at all.

Quote:
Basically no Sedins means a much busier offseason for our GM, and depending on the results of his efforts, we could become better or perhaps drop a few spots in the standings. Should be an interesting offseason.
Personally, I couldn't care less how busy our offseason was. I'm more into my team winning games.

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06-14-2009, 07:46 PM
  #313
Diamonddog01
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Originally Posted by Cocomero View Post
That was an error by Nonis in not making any attempts to re-sign him earlier.
Why would that be when even committing 5 million to him per season would've been a mistake - he recognized he was going to get a better offer and concentrated his efforts elsewhere.

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Originally Posted by Cocomero View Post
I know LOL huh? So why should the Canucks sign him?
I have never said we should sign Gaborik, I have no idea what you're talking about. We have enough injury prone players on this team in Salo and Demitra, we don't need anymore. Or players with NTC's or NMC's for that matter.

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Originally Posted by Cocomero View Post
Like....? Please list these other options, be realistic when you do so and remember, you're trying to make a competitive team.
I've made numerous proposed line-ups both with and without the Sedins. There are options that vary from signing unrestricted free agents, to making offer sheets to restricted free agents, to trading a player like Bieksa if we manage to land Bouwmeester. They all vary in possibility and probability. Even if we were to go into next season with the following top 9 (which is extremely unlikely given our active our GM is):

Demitra - Kesler - Hansen
Raymond - Wellwood - Burrows
Grabner - Hodgson - Bernier

it would certainly suck for a season or two but we'd be in much, much better shape than paying the Sedins 6.5 a season.


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06-14-2009, 08:12 PM
  #314
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it would certainly suck for a season or two but we'd be in much, much better shape than paying the Sedins 6.5 a season.
Give your head a shake. With that top 9 we would be in a great position to draft 1st for a couple of years, that's about it.

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06-14-2009, 08:20 PM
  #315
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Probably the same chicken littles who are getting anxious now.

Basically no Sedins means a much busier offseason for our GM, and depending on the results of his efforts, we could become better or perhaps drop a few spots in the standings. Should be an interesting offseason.
Gillis would have to be phenomenal for the canucks to just stay even if the sedins left.

Who else could they get to replace them?

Hossa? more money and he only puts up about the same point totals.
Gaborik? injuries
Havlat? again, injuries. Although he did play a full season this year.

There is nothing better than the sedins on the UFA market and the canuck don't exactly have a lot to trade. Not to mentioni the canucks aren't exactly great at luring free agents.

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06-14-2009, 08:30 PM
  #316
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I have complete faith in Gillis that he would be able to replace the Sedins just fine if they left.

There are players out there and trades to be made if he wants.

Not worried one bit in losing the Twins.

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06-14-2009, 08:34 PM
  #317
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Who else could they get to replace them?
In that situation, maybe it's best to forget about the high priced forwards, and focus on "defense from offense". Eg, Pronger and JBo. Assuming JBo is the real deal and can be improved by Pronger's mentoring, those two will make all the forwards look that much better.

 
Old
06-14-2009, 08:39 PM
  #318
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I have complete faith in Gillis that he would be able to replace the Sedins just fine if they left.

There are players out there and trades to be made if he wants.

Not worried one bit in losing the Twins.
The only thing I'm concerned with is getting a top line center.

Hank Sedin might be the best center available and you could argue that he might be the only number one center available in this years UFA pool.

I think it shouldn't be too difficult to replace Danny Sedin but Hank Sedin will be tough to replace unless you can find a number one center via a trade.

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06-14-2009, 08:39 PM
  #319
Diamonddog01
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Gillis would have to be phenomenal for the canucks to just stay even if the sedins left.

Who else could they get to replace them?

Hossa? more money and he only puts up about the same point totals.
Gaborik? injuries
Havlat? again, injuries. Although he did play a full season this year.

There is nothing better than the sedins on the UFA market and the canuck don't exactly have a lot to trade. Not to mentioni the canucks aren't exactly great at luring free agents.
Your first issue is focusing on replacing them with other PPG players. If we get a puck-moving defenseman and increase team speed by letting the Sedins walk our offense may just stay the same (ie still top 10 in the league), especially if we were to get more production out of a Raymond - Wellwood - Bernier line.

Your second issue is your inability to see the numerous possibilities that we have in RFA offersheets (Booth, Clowe, Stafford) and players we could get if we move Bieksa.

Focus more on the team than on individual parts. And increase in team speed and grit could help us win more, even if our offensive output drops slightly.


Last edited by Diamonddog01: 06-14-2009 at 08:46 PM.
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06-14-2009, 08:41 PM
  #320
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Give your head a shake. With that top 9 we would be in a great position to draft 1st for a couple of years, that's about it.
I disagree, we still have a good defense and a top 5 goaltender. And in anycase, I find it extremely unlikely that we'd do nothing after losing the Sedins to free agency.

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06-14-2009, 09:30 PM
  #321
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RFA offersheets haven't worked, don't work and never will work.

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06-14-2009, 09:53 PM
  #322
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I've made numerous proposed line-ups both with and without the Sedins. There are options that vary from signing unrestricted free agents, to making offer sheets to restricted free agents, to trading a player like Bieksa if we manage to land Bouwmeester. They all vary in possibility and probability. Even if we were to go into next season with the following top 9 (which is extremely unlikely given our active our GM is):

Demitra - Kesler - Hansen
Raymond - Wellwood - Burrows
Grabner - Hodgson - Bernier

it would certainly suck for a season or two but we'd be in much, much better shape than paying the Sedins 6.5 a season.
Why keep demitra at 4 mil a season, and dump the sedins at 6.5?

if you want to rebuild demitra is here because?

so we keep an aging soft vet in demitra and trade bieksa, a dman in his 20s because we want to rebuild?


While im not totally against a rebuild i don't think we need one, instead we should retool.

With sundin/ohlund gone, we have quite a bit of wiggle room, if we manage to kick demitra out, we will have a lot of cap space.

Sign the twins at 5-6 and we have sedins/burrows/kesler/bernier/raymond in our top 9.

With ohlund gone we still have mitchell/salo/edler/bieksa/o'brien. We don't necessarily need a jbo (hes ovverated imo)

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06-14-2009, 10:05 PM
  #323
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RFA offersheets haven't worked, don't work and never will work.
Pretty much, odds are that a team will bury a contract in the minors before they lose a decent RFA.

Not only is it tough to poach an RFA, but if you make an offer that puts a team under pressure, you lose a pile of draft picks. Given the Canucks prospect pool, I don't know if that is a wise strategy.

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06-14-2009, 10:21 PM
  #324
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RFA offersheets haven't worked, don't work and never will work.
Not too mention that the Canucks are limited in the type of offersheets they can give as they don't have their 2nd round pick for 2010.

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06-14-2009, 10:43 PM
  #325
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We'd still be in tough for the offseason if we lose our two best offensive players without getting any return for them.

Then we'd have to hope that we are able to sign two top line players and/or a quality on the UFA market without giving them cap crippling contracts.

And since we are so successful at luring top UFAs.....
If we lose the Twinkies, and are unable to lure the likes of Gaborik or Heatley (via trade), then perhaps we put together the best possible team we can on 1-year deals (think Sundin, Niedermayer?) and then look to capitalize on the lowered cap for 2010-11. Looking at Philly's roster, they have $44M committed to 11 players. If the rumours are true of a 46-48M cap that season I could see some very good players becoming available (Jeff Carter anyone?)

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