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It will be unacceptable to lose Komisarek

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Old
06-14-2009, 08:28 PM
  #26
shutehinside
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Thinking about how much Komi should get, I looked at a some players who I thought were comprable to him. The most Komi like player's stats are below.

Player A:
Year League GP G A Pts +/- PIM SHOTS PCT
2008-09 NHL 79 2 17 19 +10 73 39 5.13
2007-08 NHL 78 1 10 11 +11 57 50 2.00
2006-07 NHL 70 0 6 6 +4 82 59 .00
2005-06 NHL 64 2 7 9 -3 24 32 6.25

Komi:
Year League GP G A Pts +/- PIM SHOTS PCT
2008-09 NHL 66 2 9 11 0 56 3.57
2007-08 NHL 75 4 13 17 +9 101 75 5.33
2006-07 NHL 82 4 15 19 +7 96 78 5.13
2005-06 NHL 71 2 4 6 -1 116 66 3.03


Player A is Brookes Orpik and he makes $3.75 MM for the next 4 years on a 5 year contract.
I can't imagine Komi getting much more the this amount given they are similiar in stats as they are in style of play. Given it's a year later I'd say his market value would be about 4-4.25MM for 4-5 years. Anything much more then that and I hate to say we or anyone else who pays him more would be getting hosed.
Thoughts??

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06-14-2009, 08:32 PM
  #27
Schooner Guy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shutehinside View Post
Thinking about how much Komi should get, I looked at a some players who I thought were comprable to him. The most Komi like player's stats are below.

Player A:
Year League GP G A Pts +/- PIM SHOTS PCT
2008-09 NHL 79 2 17 19 +10 73 39 5.13
2007-08 NHL 78 1 10 11 +11 57 50 2.00
2006-07 NHL 70 0 6 6 +4 82 59 .00
2005-06 NHL 64 2 7 9 -3 24 32 6.25

Komi:
Year League GP G A Pts +/- PIM SHOTS PCT
2008-09 NHL 66 2 9 11 0 56 3.57
2007-08 NHL 75 4 13 17 +9 101 75 5.33
2006-07 NHL 82 4 15 19 +7 96 78 5.13
2005-06 NHL 71 2 4 6 -1 116 66 3.03


Player A is Brookes Orpik and he makes $3.75 MM for the next 4 years on a 5 year contract.
I can't imagine Komi getting much more the this amount given they are similiar in stats as they are in style of play. Given it's a year later I'd say his market value would be about 4-4.25MM for 4-5 years. Anything much more then that and I hate to say we or anyone else who pays him more would be getting hosed.
Thoughts??
Yeah but we're a year closer to a severely reduced salary cap. This means the price should go down, not up.....there is not as much water in the well.

If it looks hopeless for signing Komi, I hope we can at least get a middle round draft pick (either this year or next) for his negotiating rights.

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06-14-2009, 08:35 PM
  #28
OneSharpMarble
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Souray, Streit, Hainsey, all lost for nothing.

But he traded Huet and look how that turned out! LOL

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06-14-2009, 08:39 PM
  #29
Schooner Guy
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Originally Posted by OneSharpMarble View Post
Souray, Streit, Hainsey, all lost for nothing.

But he traded Huet and look how that turned out! LOL
Souray's so one dimensional. How many years in a row has he missed the playoffs? His salary is brutal and he's horrendous in the defensive zone. In Montreal or Edmonton, he's always caught running around in his own end and he can't move the puck to save his life.

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06-14-2009, 08:41 PM
  #30
OneSharpMarble
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Originally Posted by Schooner Guy View Post
Souray's so one dimensional. How many years in a row has he missed the playoffs? His salary is brutal and he's horrendous in the defensive zone. In Montreal or Edmonton, he's always caught running around in his own end and he can't move the puck to save his life.
How does that change the fact we got nothing for him? I never wanted him signed but letting him walk for free is the worst possible outcome.

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06-14-2009, 08:46 PM
  #31
Schooner Guy
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Originally Posted by OneSharpMarble View Post
How does that change the fact we got nothing for him? I never wanted him signed but letting him walk for free is the worst possible outcome.
Actually, we got Hamrlik for Souray. Welcome to the salary cap era.

I'd put my money on it that you would have thrown rocks at Gainey if he traded Souray at the deadline in 2007 and then we missed the playoffs. It's pretty hard to win against a hindsight genius.

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06-14-2009, 08:48 PM
  #32
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Originally Posted by OneSharpMarble View Post
How does that change the fact we got nothing for him? I never wanted him signed but letting him walk for free is the worst possible outcome.
The Habs were in a playoff race. Gainey couldn't afford to lose one of the leaders in points for a stupid 2nd round pick.

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06-14-2009, 09:05 PM
  #33
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How do we know Gainey hasn't already been in talks with Komisarek? Fact is free agency is very appealing to alot of players in the NHL, maybe he wants to test the market and see what's out there before coming to a decision.
I would love to have Komisarek back in a Habs uni next year, sure he had a rough season last year but who didn't? He can be a monster and one of the best defensive d-men in the league. I think anywhere in the 4-5 million dollar range is feasible from a Habs perspective. If he gets 6+, then I will be disapointed seeing him suit up on another teams blue line, but optimistic in that extra cap space and seeing some of our younger defencemen get a shot.

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06-14-2009, 09:15 PM
  #34
holyhabs87
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souray is not the same situation

gainey offered him 5.25 for 4 years and souray said no

pretty much what he signed for in edmonton

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06-14-2009, 09:25 PM
  #35
Schooner Guy
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Red Line Report draft guide speculates that Brian Burke will go hard after JBo and/or Komisarek.

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06-14-2009, 09:29 PM
  #36
OneSharpMarble
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Originally Posted by Schooner Guy View Post
Actually, we got Hamrlik for Souray. Welcome to the salary cap era.

I'd put my money on it that you would have thrown rocks at Gainey if he traded Souray at the deadline in 2007 and then we missed the playoffs. It's pretty hard to win against a hindsight genius.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ThaDevilGirl View Post
The Habs were in a playoff race. Gainey couldn't afford to lose one of the leaders in points for a stupid 2nd round pick.
Habs were terrible that year, had they made the playoffs it would have been another 1st round exit. I dont think I was posting on this board at the time but I know I got banned several times on the Canadiens.com board for saying he should be traded.

You can't rely on a single player for your entire offensive abilities which was exactly what the habs did that year. It made the rest of their offensive players dependant and weak. Souray could have gotten us a 1st rounder from a team that wanted to stack up for a run but instead we lost him for nothing and the next year when the Habs were playing great and looking to make a run of their own they traded Huet and went in with a unproven rookie goaltender.

These are the kind of mistakes that need to be remember and addressed each time Gainey is put on a pedestal for no reason.

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06-14-2009, 09:40 PM
  #37
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In a cap world, players are no longer judged solely on their ability. Komi is a good d-man at 4 million dollars. Komi is not a good d-man at 6 million dollars.

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06-14-2009, 09:41 PM
  #38
Turianel
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If you would have Two defenceman from the following list for 6M:

Beauchemin, Morris, Leopold, Boyton or Bergeron (Just to name these

or one for 6M
Komisarek...

would you do it?

I wouldn't... Will some NHL teams paid this... It's possible (ex: Pener 4M...) So what, I would prefere two good D instead of one.

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06-14-2009, 09:50 PM
  #39
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Originally Posted by Ozymandias View Post
Totally wrong IMO.

Streit wasn't a question of dealing with him before the season ended. You actually don't seem to understand the process of what Gainey does. If he would've signed Streit, he would've limited himself in the changes he could've done at the end of the season. You can't just always re-sign your players. The team had needs to be filled, and consequently left an open door to be able to get a #1 center, as shown by Gainey,s attempts at getting Sundin. Gainey also wanted to add some top end talent by getting Tanguay. If he would've signed Streit right away, then it would limit the moves he could make.

Now, not signing him in the season, doesn't mean you can't sign him in the off-season. And the reason Streit didn't sign here is not because we didn't want him or he didn't want to come back, it was a question of bad timing, as the Habs couldn't offer (in terms of playing time) what Streit wanted. Streit wanted to play D 100% of the time, but he couldn't do it effectively (rather did it awfully) on the right side. So it was either use him as a huge liability on the right side, or use him on the left side on the 3rd pairing at 3 mil per, which isn't good in the cap era.

As for Komi... THANK GOD Gainey didn't sign him a year ago for so many reasons.

If we lose Komi, its gonna be because of the system.

You can't compare his case and Streit's case to those of Hainsey and others before the cap era.

Did we lose Markov??? NO. So its not the norm to lose our Dmen. Some decisions have to be made, and sometimes it sucks, but that's life, deal with it.

The Habs will survive without Komi. Look at Detroit, look at Pittsburg. Most Ds are puckmoving Ds. A defensive D is easier to develop than an offensive minded one. With all due respect, stop being such an alarmist dude.
It's no longer as cut and dry as saying that someone doesn't understand Gainey's process. Lets face it, his "process" has opened itself up to valid criticism at this point. Not offering Streit what he wanted in terms of playing time was not due to "bad timing", but rather a bad call of judgement. Mistakes happen, and Streit was an example of that. Paying Streit 2.5 to be our 3rd left D and 1st unit PP triggerman is entirely worth it. Heck, we paid Bouillon 1.8 to deliver less than half of what Streit brings. For a team that counted on a players like Brisebois, Gorges, and Bouillon to "work" the PP, Streit would of been a luxury at his asking price.

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06-14-2009, 10:15 PM
  #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Turianel View Post
If you would have Two defenceman from the following list for 6M:

Beauchemin, Morris, Leopold, Boyton or Bergeron (Just to name these

or one for 6M
Komisarek...

would you do it?

I wouldn't... Will some NHL teams paid this... It's possible (ex: Pener 4M...) So what, I would prefere two good D instead of one.
If a team is crazy enough to give 6M to Komisarek then so be it. And I'm definitely not a fan of Bergeron. And I doubt you could get 2 of the others for a combined 6M$.

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06-14-2009, 10:15 PM
  #41
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Agree with the OP when he describes the Habs as mainstays in mediocrity. However, over paying drastically for Komi wont help us alleviate that tag. Very frustrating to come close to big names every year, only to come up short. But--maybe we lucked out by not winning the Briere sweeps. But I'd certainly endorse giving Jay Bo big time cash--but he wont be coming here.

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06-14-2009, 10:26 PM
  #42
FlyingKostitsyn
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Schooner Guy View Post
Red Line Report draft guide speculates that Brian Burke will go hard after JBo and/or Komisarek.
Brian Burke is reportedly willing to :

1. tank the season to get high picks...
2. ...yet be competitive, spend to the cap
3. trade to draft tavares
4. rebuild trough free agency
5. rebuild trough youth/from inside the organization from the draft
6. hire renowned french goalie coaches to sign some monster swedish guy
7. trade for lecavalier
8. cure cancer
9. resurrect Sundin, again
10. now he'll sign Bouwmeester?

What next?

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06-14-2009, 10:32 PM
  #43
Schooner Guy
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Originally Posted by FlyingKostitsyn View Post
Brian Burke is reportedly willing to :

1. tank the season to get high picks...
2. ...yet be competitive, spend to the cap
3. trade to draft tavares
4. rebuild trough free agency
5. rebuild trough youth/from inside the organization from the draft
6. hire renowned french goalie coaches to sign some monster swedish guy
7. trade for lecavalier
8. cure cancer
9. resurrect Sundin, again
10. now he'll sign Bouwmeester?

What next?
Burkie did say he wants to be in the playoffs next season.

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06-14-2009, 10:37 PM
  #44
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Originally Posted by holyhabs87 View Post
As a younger fan, I remember when we drafted Komisarek, we were told this guy would be one of our top 2 defensemen for years to come. He brought grit, leadership and many intangibles necessary to help a team win.

At that same time, there was also hype about another defenseman that was supposed to be probably better but nevertheless a fixture on our blue line for a while. His name was Ron Hainsey. We lost him for nothing.

So two players who were expected to be 2 of our best defenseman, probably right around this time, will not even be with the team any longer with no immediate replacements and nothing in return for their loss.

What about Valentenko and Emelin...we hear all this great stuff about them, and with Emelin it has been a few years now. Yet both are not even the damn country.

Now we have David Fisher...what is going on with him? We drafted a kid with no pro experience. It is quite dissapointing to read that he is not even progressing much.

So our new Hainsey and Komisarek is now Subban and McDonaugh. Will we go down the same path with these two? Will we lose both of them before either of them, arguably, reach their prime?

I am tired of the excuses. I am sure there will be some for Komisarek but can you really tell me these situations were unavoidable? ..there is little to no progression with this team. A mainstay at mediocrity for how many years now? Youngsters not developping. It is unnaceptable in my opinion.
I didn't read to the end of the thread but that bit about "no pro experience" took me aback. Which North American player had pro experience at the time he was drafted? We're taking about 18-year-olds, not about 27-year-olds like Mark Streit.

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06-14-2009, 10:50 PM
  #45
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if its higher than 4 million, then it IS acceptable.

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Old
06-14-2009, 11:11 PM
  #46
Kriss E
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Originally Posted by ThaDevilGirl View Post
The Habs were in a playoff race. Gainey couldn't afford to lose one of the leaders in points for a stupid 2nd round pick.
If Rivet got him a 1st rounder and Gorges, I'm pretty sure Souray would have gotten a nice return back as well.

We also traded Rivet to SJ, a top contender in the West. Burke expressed how disappointed he was that Gainey didn't call him back before dealing with SJ.
A call to Burke to let him know Rivet was shipped but Souray could be available might have made him anxious to bring in a top guy like Souray and possibly give up a bigger return.

That being said, maybe they did have talks, we don't know.

But for sure, Souray would have brought a bigger return than Rivet or at least a similar one.


As for us fighting for a spot, our play had dropped since half way through the year and the team was in no way responding to Carbo. That season, our team was headed to the crapper if it weren't for Halak.
I remember being in full support of trading Souray, and Ryder for that matter.

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Old
06-14-2009, 11:20 PM
  #47
holyhabs87
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Originally Posted by Teufelsdreck View Post
I didn't read to the end of the thread but that bit about "no pro experience" took me aback. Which North American player had pro experience at the time he was drafted? We're taking about 18-year-olds, not about 27-year-olds like Mark Streit.
i adressed that comment.

i meant to say he was in high school playing against boys..not in the q, ohl etc.

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Old
06-14-2009, 11:28 PM
  #48
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If we lost Komisarek, i hope we replace him with a big defenseman with grit and leadership. We lost Souray, Rivet, not the best defenseman but they were big, can fight and brought leadership and they were never replaced. If we lose Komisarek and replaced him by a small defenseman, we could be the softest d-core of the entire league.

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06-14-2009, 11:49 PM
  #49
Agnostic
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Originally Posted by Stradale View Post
If we lost Komisarek, i hope we replace him with a big defenseman with grit and leadership. We lost Souray, Rivet, not the best defenseman but they were big, can fight and brought leadership and they were never replaced. If we lose Komisarek and replaced him by a small defenseman, we could be the softest d-core of the entire league.
Players with these traits don't typically become available. The players we have recently lost are not easily replaced, and in every recent case we haven't replaced them.

With considerations given to salary I think it's obviously important to keep Komisarek.

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06-14-2009, 11:51 PM
  #50
OneSharpMarble
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Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
If Rivet got him a 1st rounder and Gorges, I'm pretty sure Souray would have gotten a nice return back as well.

We also traded Rivet to SJ, a top contender in the West. Burke expressed how disappointed he was that Gainey didn't call him back before dealing with SJ.
A call to Burke to let him know Rivet was shipped but Souray could be available might have made him anxious to bring in a top guy like Souray and possibly give up a bigger return.

That being said, maybe they did have talks, we don't know.

But for sure, Souray would have brought a bigger return than Rivet or at least a similar one.


As for us fighting for a spot, our play had dropped since half way through the year and the team was in no way responding to Carbo. That season, our team was headed to the crapper if it weren't for Halak.
I remember being in full support of trading Souray, and Ryder for that matter.
Could you imagine...Bobby Ryan

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