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Balsillie bid rejected

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Old
06-16-2009, 12:05 AM
  #26
Em Ancien
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Originally Posted by habs101 View Post
If losing $300 million dollars since they moved from Winnipeg doesn't prove they are not a viable market, then I don't know what proof you are looking for. You talk about Tampa, Atlanta, etc... do these franchises make money???? Have they made money??? That is the bottom line. The NHL in these markets don't have the corporate support needed to survive, like the other major sports have in these markets. Bettman is not a stupid individual, but he does have a hidden agenda, and I don't know if he is truly representing all the owners, I would love to see the owners vote on this situation, but you can be sure Bettman will not make it get to that point, he will use his traditional gag order to keep his non supporters quiet. Total disgrace!
As I said (and you apparently couldn't figure out), these markets have much, much higher potential than any other markets in Canada.

But placing a poor product in non-traditional markets have not helped it to sell itself. As I said, teams in Canada have faced relocation problems before also, because they were bleeding cash. Yet, those were traditional markets.

Fact is, once they get the ball rolling, they'll get much more visibility, more appeal to corporations, more publicity opportunity, etc.

For the Balsillie point, I'm pretty sure every owner would support the NHL. Why? Because he wants to force himself into the owner's group and force the NHL to authorize the relocation, which is not legal AND is EXTREMELY selfish. He wants to put a team in the middle of 3 ****ing exploited hockey markets (Toronto, Detroit and Buffalo).

Ballsilie is the disgrace in this situation. Like most major sports league have pointed out, allowing such actions would set a dangerous precedent and let cowboy owners turn respectable leagues into zoos. But the only reason this guy gets any support is that he waives the maple leaf.

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Old
06-16-2009, 12:12 AM
  #27
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only reason i wanted a team in hamilton because am in school here for couple more years and wanted to see the habs... guess thats not happening.

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06-16-2009, 12:17 AM
  #28
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The Coyotes remind me of the Expos. When they had winning teams, I remember them having good attendance. Now that they're on the downside, people lose interest, as it's not yet a strong hockey market. They've got a young team, and I'd like to see them thrive in Arizona.

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06-16-2009, 12:22 AM
  #29
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I'm happy. I hate ballsillie. He's tried to move every team he's gotten a chance to own. WHY him? Honestly, there's owners who have went by the book and lost money and tried to make a successful market but this genius deserves first dibs on a new canadian team? Unfair ********. Not to mention he's saying its for canada or something. No, it's for you, if you wanted it for canada, put it back in winnipeg, it used to be there team. All he cares about is southern ontario. He doesn't care about anywhere else.

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06-16-2009, 03:46 AM
  #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MTLHabsAK46 View Post
It IS being handed a franchise if a guy basically just comes in and says ''I'll move it to Canada'' without the league having a strong, regulated approach to market movement.

I couldn't care less if the guy bought the team legit and went through the whole process. But he didn't. Yet people whine about how Canada didn't get another franchise because of 'Grinch' Bettman. There's no logic whatsoever to the point. They just whine and bring out insults. Period.

As for those teams being in markets they shouldn't be. I disagree. Weird markets have built a strong fanbase because they won (Dallas, Anaheim, San Jose, Tampa Bay [they had better attendance before 07-08], Carolina). Atlanta, Nashville, Columbus (which had a relatively strong fanbase until recently), Florida and Phoenix don't get a lot of people in the stands because they just don't win. Edmonton, Calgary and Vancouver had the same problems. But they were in 'traditionnal hockey markets'.

It's unfair to judge a market based on a long period of losing. Phoenix, Nashville and such will attract a larger audience once they finally turn the corner.
The problem with Ballsilie trying to go through a "legit" route, is that there is a zero percent chance that the league would ever allow it...and that was kind of my point. Most businesses don't have the kind of power that professional sports leagues wield. If someone wants to buy a team, and puts in the strongest offer (which Ballsilie did), one could argue that it is their property and they are entitled to do with it what they please. Now the commissioner has overriding power to dictate where franchises can and will go, with little say going to those who are interested in buying teams. Not only does it drive down interest from potential buyers who would like franchises in specific locations, but it can be used in a very dangerous manner.

Case in point: The Seattle Supersonics. They were relocated because a friend of the commissioner, who was an Oklahoma native, decided he wanted a franchise in Ok city. The commissioner, who for every reason that was good and true in this world should have kept the team in Seattle, essentially let it happen, and a franchise with a 40 year history, a rabid fanbase and a championship to their name was moved 3000 miles away.

Bettman has shown his desire in the past to support moves out of traditional (albeit small) hockey markets to large (relatively unorthodox) city centres. (That is what I meant by trying to turn the NHL into the NBA btw). He tried to establish teams in cities with large metropolitan populations in the hopes of attracting a maximum fanbase and widespread national coverage. Instead he ended up alienating a large portion of the old diehard fanbase (both through diluted play and inflated prices due to large market economics), and was unable to attract enough of a new casual fanbase to offset the loss due primarily to poor marketing and a shoddy product on the ice that delivered little in entertainment value.

I'm not whining that Canada didn't get another fanbase...Hamilton may have been great but it also posed a severe threat to several other markets that deserve a chance (Buffalo and possibly Detroit with their economic situation). I am only skeptical of the way in which Bettman has chosen to align the league and justify the many devastating blows that small market teams (Hartford included) have been given under his reign. Hockey would do better as a sport if it delivered the product to those who are already aware of its awesomeness, not by force feeding it to people who could care less about it anyway.

And of the franchises you listed:
Dallas has been great - but that is almost all due to the strong hockey culture that already existed in the area before the move. (shockingly enough)

Columbus - A franchise I totally support - small city, great hockey culture and cold weather...loved the move when it happened, love it still today

San Jose - Another small market where the Sharks are the only gig in town. Out of all the sunbelt teams I think its the best positioned

Tampa, Carolina and Anaheim all had attendance hikes after they won the cup, but they have all come back down to earth since. Carolina is doing ok, but Anaheim is still lacklustre in terms of team support, awareness and turnout, and Tampa has also dropped significantly as you pointed out.

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Old
06-16-2009, 06:55 AM
  #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by le_sean View Post
He's trying to own a team specifically to tap into the Southern Ontario market, so buying the Habs would be of no interest to him I assume.
But if he think about the History of the team and the prestige... he should try to buy the Habs.

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Old
06-16-2009, 08:51 AM
  #32
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This is pretty much what I expected

Bozo Balsillie is getting exactly what he deserved for his behaviour

He behaved strangely when trying to buy the Pens. He acted absolutely absurdly in his Preds fiasco with his season ticket sales campaign for Hamilton. Now the knucklehead pulls all these stupid stunts trying to barge in with the Yotes

If he had patiently gone through all the normal channels in his dealings and succeeded in successfully buying a team, he could have made relocation attempts later. He could have even pulled a Colts/Browns/raiders type manouver if necessary. The courts did not stand in the way in those circumstances despite very succesful and established franchises in Baltimore/Oakland/Cleveland

Frankly Hamilton is not the place to put a team anyway even if it would be better than Phoenix. It has never been a good hockey town. And no matter how much $$$ is thrown at Copps it is still an old dump. I believe Balsillie would have walked out of there eventually anyway

For such a successful business man Balsillie is not smart in a lot of ways

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Old
06-16-2009, 08:52 AM
  #33
VanNistelrooy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LyricalLyricist View Post
I'm happy. I hate ballsillie. He's tried to move every team he's gotten a chance to own. WHY him? Honestly, there's owners who have went by the book and lost money and tried to make a successful market but this genius deserves first dibs on a new canadian team? Unfair ********. Not to mention he's saying its for canada or something. No, it's for you, if you wanted it for canada, put it back in winnipeg, it used to be there team. All he cares about is southern ontario. He doesn't care about anywhere else.
He tried to move two of the worst markets of the NHL (Nashville and Phoenix) to a hockey market here in Canada. I fail to see how would it be unfair.

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06-16-2009, 09:18 AM
  #34
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Really all I care about here is I'm REALLY REALLY sick of seeing Balsillie walking down a hallway in a tux with his wife. Over and over and over. TSN get some more footage!

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06-16-2009, 11:08 AM
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by le_sean View Post
He's trying to own a team specifically to tap into the Southern Ontario market, so buying the Habs would be of no interest to him I assume.
Maybe he will buy the Bulldogs?

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Old
06-16-2009, 11:12 AM
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VanNistelrooy View Post
He tried to move two of the worst markets of the NHL (Nashville and Phoenix) to a hockey market here in Canada. I fail to see how would it be unfair.
Gee...unfair to the people of Nashville and Phoenix who have invested their time and money in the franchise, maybe?

I'm surprised people here, from a city that lost a pretty big part of its identity when the Expos left, would support relocation of any team.

Personally I'm thrilled Balsille got rejected once again. Maybe this time he'll finally get the hint.

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06-16-2009, 11:13 AM
  #37
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****ing ********* Bettman, ****ing NHL's BS.

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06-16-2009, 11:14 AM
  #38
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Originally Posted by ChaseMe View Post
Really all I care about here is I'm REALLY REALLY sick of seeing Balsillie walking down a hallway in a tux with his wife. Over and over and over. TSN get some more footage!
Hahaha I thought I was the only one who was getting sick of that. Every single time, wearing that stupid bowtie....

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Old
06-16-2009, 11:43 AM
  #39
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Originally Posted by VanNistelrooy View Post
He tried to move two of the worst markets of the NHL (Nashville and Phoenix) to a hockey market here in Canada. I fail to see how would it be unfair.
Worst markets like pittsburg right?

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Old
06-16-2009, 11:46 AM
  #40
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I bet the Coyotes will be bought for cheap by one of Buttman's friend and moved to Las Vegas soon. That weasel always beg for his old buddies from the NBA to help him out.

Boo the **** outta him at the draft and boo the Coyotes, Sabres and Laffs.

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Old
06-16-2009, 11:48 AM
  #41
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Good...the last thing the NHL needs in its efforts to expand its game, is another Canadian team.

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Old
06-16-2009, 11:50 AM
  #42
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Originally Posted by hototogisu View Post
Gee...unfair to the people of Nashville and Phoenix who have invested their time and money in the franchise, maybe?

I'm surprised people here, from a city that lost a pretty big part of its identity when the Expos left, would support relocation of any team.

Personally I'm thrilled Balsille got rejected once again. Maybe this time he'll finally get the hint.
Thank you! we're few who oppose him. I can't stand the guy. Like no **** who wouldnt want a team in canada? He makes it sound like it's for the fans, he'll make money, that's all its about.

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Old
06-16-2009, 12:05 PM
  #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MTLHabsAK46 View Post
It IS being handed a franchise if a guy basically just comes in and says ''I'll move it to Canada'' without the league having a strong, regulated approach to market movement.

I couldn't care less if the guy bought the team legit and went through the whole process. But he didn't. Yet people whine about how Canada didn't get another franchise because of 'Grinch' Bettman. There's no logic whatsoever to the point. They just whine and bring out insults. Period.

As for those teams being in markets they shouldn't be. I disagree. Weird markets have built a strong fanbase because they won (Dallas, Anaheim, San Jose, Tampa Bay [they had better attendance before 07-08], Carolina). Atlanta, Nashville, Columbus (which had a relatively strong fanbase until recently), Florida and Phoenix don't get a lot of people in the stands because they just don't win. Edmonton, Calgary and Vancouver had the same problems. But they were in 'traditionnal hockey markets'.

It's unfair to judge a market based on a long period of losing. Phoenix, Nashville and such will attract a larger audience once they finally turn the corner.
Great analysis of the situation. I think the NHL is being pragmatic and smart on this issue. I, like everyone else, would love to see another team in Canada, but not in Hamilton. In Moving a team to Hamilton the organization would face significant problems with the Leafs and make life more difficult for a small market team in the US, yes they do exist, called the Buffalo Sabres.

I can speak for the Vancouver Canucks and their fanbase. When the team sucked in the last few years of the 1990s and earlier in the decade, there was no support for the team. I saw very few t-shirts and jerseys on people and practically no casual fan was talking about them. Moreover, attendance was awful. There were games, such as a Nashville game I went to see during that time, where an entire section in the nose-bleeds was vacant. In fact, there were no more than 11,000 fans at the game. It is simple, win and the seats will be filled and lose fans will stay away in droves. In places like Montreal, there were empty seats when the team sucked earlier in teh decade. However, in "non-traditional" hockey markets, even in "traditional" markets like Vancouver, this tendency is magnified.

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