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NHL 10 worst contracts.. Briere #6

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Old
06-15-2009, 11:49 PM
  #51
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Originally Posted by Scarfo View Post
Sorry, bros.

Vacant rebuttals make it no less true.
wrong...

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06-15-2009, 11:52 PM
  #52
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Some people are just an embarrassment to Flyer fandom...

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06-16-2009, 12:31 AM
  #53
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Originally Posted by CannonGoBoom View Post
As much as Kimmo is the man now and hes the best player on the team, hes going to be 38 when that contract expires and to be paying a 37 or 38 year old dman 6.4 million is kind of scary. Right now we all love it but we might not be loving it so much in 2 years when hes 36 and making 6.4 million while we are desperately trying to sign Gagne, Carter, Giroux and Spisa all in one summer. Kimmo has been mentioned very often as having a bad contract, this isnt the first time.
Dead on.

As you can see in this thread, public sentiment will keep the realities of that wretched deal buried for a while longer. (Along with assurances that the deal is "front loaded" and that he's "aging well".) But, history dictates that this deal is one we're likely to regret.

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06-16-2009, 01:49 AM
  #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CannonGoBoom View Post
As much as Kimmo is the man now and hes the best player on the team, hes going to be 38 when that contract expires and to be paying a 37 or 38 year old dman 6.4 million is kind of scary. Right now we all love it but we might not be loving it so much in 2 years when hes 36 and making 6.4 million while we are desperately trying to sign Gagne, Carter, Giroux and Spisa all in one summer. Kimmo has been mentioned very often as having a bad contract, this isnt the first time.

Honestly, I wouldnt mind moving him for a younger dman if we had the chance(Kimmo + for someone like phaneuf). Only because that contract could really suck in 2 years when he might not be good enough to be the rock of the first pairing.
I won't deny that the contract certainly takes on more of a risk as he gets older but its not unreasonable to believe that he can serve out his role then as he does now.

I think it's fair to compare Kimmo to Matt Schneider, who is 40 yrs old, has remained on top pairings and served his power play positively. So far the contract has worked out great for both sides and yes, it's scary as a player gets older but you can also choose to look at it this way: we have half our top pairing, a veteran leader, and a key component to our pp locked up for years to come.

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06-16-2009, 02:07 AM
  #55
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I shudder to think what our defense would look like without Timonen.

worth every ******* penny.

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06-16-2009, 03:06 AM
  #56
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Originally Posted by FireStevensDotCom View Post
I shudder to think what our defense would look like without Timonen.
His first two years have worked quite well. We'll see how the next four go.

EDIT: I believe Braydon Coburn and Ryan Parent will become free agents next summer... and, we have $42M committed to the 2010-11 season - a figure which doesn't include a goalie.


Last edited by Readyrock: 06-16-2009 at 03:11 AM.
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Old
06-16-2009, 07:35 AM
  #57
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06-16-2009, 08:26 AM
  #58
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Timonen is a very durable guy. He will still be effective when he's older.

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Old
06-16-2009, 10:19 AM
  #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scarfo View Post
His first two years have worked quite well. We'll see how the next four go.

EDIT: I believe Braydon Coburn and Ryan Parent will become free agents next summer... and, we have $42M committed to the 2010-11 season - a figure which doesn't include a goalie.
That's everyone's lovely "In Holmgren I trust" GM there. Remember, he knows better than us.


That said, your comments about Timonen are way off base. The value of having a #1 defenseman like him in this league, there is almost no way to gauge that value other than to be happy that you have one.

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Old
06-16-2009, 10:26 AM
  #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scarfo View Post
His first two years have worked quite well. We'll see how the next four go.

EDIT: I believe Braydon Coburn and Ryan Parent will become free agents next summer... and, we have $42M committed to the 2010-11 season - a figure which doesn't include a goalie.
Yup, dont get me wrong, I love timonen and what he brings to this team is somethign nobody else does, but in 2 years when we are looking to sign Carter, giroux, gagne and spisa while we have a 36 year old dman locked up at 6.4 million thats when it might not be so great.

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Old
06-16-2009, 10:45 AM
  #61
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I honestly see Kimmo being good at the age when his contract ends.

Maybe not our #1 Dman, but definitely durable. The thing about these European, and more specifically Scandinavian Dmen, is that they always seem to last long. Kimmo is a very tough dude.

Besides, look at a guy like Teppo Numenien (sp). Hes old, not nearly as good as Kimmo, but serviceable. By the time Kimmo is that old, hopefully some of our younger D talent is ready to lighten his load.

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06-16-2009, 11:12 AM
  #62
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I think Timonen plays a game that will last through most of his contract

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06-16-2009, 11:13 AM
  #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CannonGoBoom View Post
Yup, dont get me wrong, I love timonen and what he brings to this team is somethign nobody else does, but in 2 years when we are looking to sign Carter, giroux, gagne and spisa while we have a 36 year old dman locked up at 6.4 million thats when it might not be so great.
And we probably miss the playoffs the last two seasons without Timonen. He is, after all, the key player on our PP (which goes to **** every time he's hurt). Ultimately, what you're worried about, is the price of doing business. That's the type of contract #1 D were/are getting at that age.

Might it be a problem? Sure.

But if you want a #1 D, you have to pay for it.

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06-16-2009, 11:15 AM
  #64
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Originally Posted by Hovercraft View Post
I think Timonen plays a game that will last through most of his contract
Not uncommon for a guy that skates like he does. My only concern would be his offensive game declining sharply, a la Kapanen. If you can skate, however, you can keep playing for a long time.

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06-16-2009, 11:59 AM
  #65
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Lidstrom is 39 and hasn't really regressed. Niedermayer is pushing 36 and hasn't showed signs of slowing down. Rob Blake is 39 and still plays great defense. If these guys don't slow down in their late 30s, why does everyone expect Timonen to have problems when he's 36 or 37?

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Old
06-16-2009, 12:17 PM
  #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CantSeeColors View Post
Lidstrom is 39 and hasn't really regressed. Niedermayer is pushing 36 and hasn't showed signs of slowing down. Rob Blake is 39 and still plays great defense. If these guys don't slow down in their late 30s, why does everyone expect Timonen to have problems when he's 36 or 37?
You named 3 future HOF dmen and some of the best of their generation, thats not Kimmo, sorry.

I hope Kimmos is worth it in the end and I'm not saying he for sure wont be but at the same time its going to suck if we have to lose Carter, Giroux or spisa(3 centerpieces of the future)and not to mention gagne for an aging dman eating up huge cap space.

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Old
06-16-2009, 12:19 PM
  #67
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I can't believe people even question how good Timonen is when we've seen how horrid our defense is without him. His contract is good compared to some other people in the league, reeeeeeally good.

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06-16-2009, 12:22 PM
  #68
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Originally Posted by CannonGoBoom View Post
You named 3 future HOF dmen and some of the best of their generation, thats not Kimmo, sorry.

I hope Kimmos is worth it in the end and I'm not saying he for sure wont be but at the same time its going to suck if we have to lose Carter, Giroux or spisa(3 centerpieces of the future)and not to mention gagne for an aging dman eating up huge cap space.
...as opposed to the diminutive forward eating up huge cap space?

I'm more concerned about the undersized (with some injury history) forward than I am about the (still very much) stellar defenseman.

Timonen's game will certainly be affected by age, but he is such a good skater that you're not talking about someone who is going to suddenly be a liability out there (barring significant leg injury or something).

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06-16-2009, 12:36 PM
  #69
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Timonen's game won't regresses as much as people think if the Flyers develop or bring in other defensemen to supplement him. Lidstrom, Neidermayer, Blake, etc. all haven't shown the signs of wear and tear because they're on teams who have other defensemen who take the load off somewhat.

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06-16-2009, 03:23 PM
  #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jester View Post
...as opposed to the diminutive forward eating up huge cap space?
This is a point that I think shouldn't be lost. Make no mistake, I'm contending that Timonen is part of the problem - not the problem.


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I can't believe people even question how good Timonen is when we've seen how horrid our defense is without him. His contract is good compared to some other people in the league, reeeeeeally good.
Nonsense.

Player performance has absolutely nothing to do with the quality of that player's contract. Signing a player is all in weighing risk-reward. (If you win a bad bet, it doesn't change the fact that it was a bad bet.)

If Timonen was oft-injured and struggling and Danny Briere was top-5 in scoring, then throngs of posters on this board would be calling for Timonen's head and Briere's contract wouldn't be under any scrutiny.

I believe both deals are rotten. The potential risk of losing young prospects isn't worth the potential reward of their respective performances nearing 40. ...and, that's the only reasonable criteria with which you can judge the merits of any contract: whether the risk is worth the reward. Period.

Stop with this "HURRR DURRR HE'S DOING GOOD SO HIS CONTRACT IS GOOD" garbage.

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06-16-2009, 03:31 PM
  #71
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saying timonen's deal is rotten at this point is conjecture, plain and simple. fast skaters tend to have a longer shelf life than bruisers, and timonen is likely to maintain at least a semblance of his current level of play well into his 30s.

all i can say right now is this: Kimmo Timonen is without a doubt our BEST defenseman right now and 6.3 is more than fair.

in the future, who the hell knows? we took the risk to sign him long because otherwise, he might have gone to another team. homer seems a tad (generous) reckless in some of his gambles, but i admire his commitment to making this team competitive. could you imagine how poorly we'd be doing if we did not sign briere, timonen, hartnell that offseason?

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06-16-2009, 03:35 PM
  #72
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This is a point that I think shouldn't be lost. Make no mistake, I'm contending that Timonen is part of the problem - not the problem.
Again, Timonen is one of the primary reasons we're a halfway decent team right now. Not only is his contract not part of the problem, please find me a solution to the problem of not having a no. 1 D if you were to remove him and his contract from the roster.

Wade Redden: 6.5M
Brian Campbell: 7.142M
Brian Rafalski: 6M
Dan Boyle: 6.666M

The list can go on and on...Jeff friggin Finger made 3.5M last summer. If you want a no. 1 D (and you absolutely need one to be competitive in this league), you have to pay top dollar for it...and long terms. The problem with the argument you are making is two-fold. Not only is it ignoring the fact that D tend to age relatively well compared to forwards, and Timonen is one of the key players on this club. It is also ignoring the fact that you simply cannot have a no. 1 D for much less than what Timonen is making...and, for the record, I would rather have Timonen than all four of the players listed above.

Quote:
I believe both deals are rotten. The potential risk of losing young prospects isn't worth the potential reward of their respective performances nearing 40. ...and, that's the only reasonable criteria with which you can judge the merits of any contract: whether the risk is worth the reward. Period.
The moment you win a stanley cup on "potential," get back to me. Hell, the moment you win a single game in the NHL based on "potential," get back to me.

Quote:
Stop with this "HURRR DURRR HE'S DOING GOOD SO HIS CONTRACT IS GOOD" garbage.
Might as well stop with positive assertions of his suckitude in the future...cuz unless you have the ability to foretell the future, looking around the league its difficult to support an argument that top-flight D fall to pieces in their mid-to-late 30s.

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06-16-2009, 04:48 PM
  #73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scarfo View Post
This is a point that I think shouldn't be lost. Make no mistake, I'm contending that Timonen is part of the problem - not the problem.




Nonsense.

Player performance has absolutely nothing to do with the quality of that player's contract. Signing a player is all in weighing risk-reward. (If you win a bad bet, it doesn't change the fact that it was a bad bet.)

If Timonen was oft-injured and struggling and Danny Briere was top-5 in scoring, then throngs of posters on this board would be calling for Timonen's head and Briere's contract wouldn't be under any scrutiny.

I believe both deals are rotten. The potential risk of losing young prospects isn't worth the potential reward of their respective performances nearing 40. ...and, that's the only reasonable criteria with which you can judge the merits of any contract: whether the risk is worth the reward. Period.

Stop with this "HURRR DURRR HE'S DOING GOOD SO HIS CONTRACT IS GOOD" garbage.
That doesn't even make sense? So if a star player signs for 2 million a year and plays 10 games a year because of injuries it was a good deal?

How else would you base the value of a contract other than on play. You're an idiot.

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Old
06-16-2009, 05:15 PM
  #74
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Timonen came to the worst team in the whole league, and anchored our D to the conference finals, which we lost while he was injured. Get off his back. He has been durable his entire career and plays the type of game that will last.

He has missed 7 games as a flyer in two years, and people are worrying that he's going to be "completely broken down" in 4 years? at least wait until a injury occurs with him to ***** and moan this much about our team MVP.

Timonen will never be responsible for us losing young prospects. He would probably be the 2nd last vet we would trade if we needed cap room, with the first being Richards. Maybe tied for 2nd with Carter.

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06-16-2009, 05:54 PM
  #75
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All of the 'big three' free agent forwards from two years ago are on that list - #2, #3 and #6.

I would love Briere's contract if it weren't for the NMC. We could easily move him with two or three years left to a team that's have trouble getting up to the min cap and doesn't want to pay the full difference. Or - if he shows Recchi-like longevity and still plays top line into his mid/late 30s - we hang onto him.

Nathan

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