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Eklund: "Flyers working a deal with Kings"

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Old
06-16-2009, 09:14 AM
  #26
ShawnTHW
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Originally Posted by I am The Mush View Post
Right. But the deal in question is more like "Is JVR >>> Cap Space + additional return?"

Let's not start trading away JVR for a pick. I don't think we need to do that, when most likely Holmgren approached Lombardi about trading Briere and the 5th is what he was asking. I don't think we should move away from trading Briere in order to get that pick, when the real goal for Philly is cap space and relocating our cap space and talent towards the D.

I personally wouldn't mind seeing Briere go for a close to reasonable return to get some cap space and possibly invest some of his contract somewhere else. Though if he stays it certainly is not an unworkable situation having him in the line up (it would be match up hell for coaches playing against the Flyers). I think the trade below works.

Briere
Quick/Bernier + Tom Preissing + Stoll/Zus

Kings can have their pick of which center comes back if the Flyers can pick the goalie, or vice versa, if that suits the Kings better. Briere's contract hurts his value but I still think he is worth more than either one of Quick or Bernier straight up. Stoll more than makes up the difference, so we take back Preissing to get the values and salaries more evenly aligned. Philadelphia can afford to put Preissing in the AHL and eat the contract (which gives us some cap space).

I think LA fans will absolutely hate this and tell me I am so far off, but it seems most of them don't want to give to get, or don't want to make a trade that doesn't clearly screw the other team. This trade gives the Kings a first line center, that they could put on their second line to take some of the burden off Kopitar. Philly gets a goalie, a center that conforms better with the role of a third line center in terms of skills and salary, and some cap space.


The interesting dilemma is if Harding for Lupul is also on the table for Philly, are they willing to lose both Lupul and Briere? I say no, in that case I do the deal for Harding and let Briere play RW on Carter's line for a year, and investigate trading him when his terms are shorter and he has likely had a solid year (can't be worse than this year right?).
If we got Zus back, we might as well go for the whole 04 team again. Try to snag Roenick, Recchi, Amonte, Leclair, Timander, Johnsson, Primeau out of retirement, Esche is a possibility, snag Markov from the KHL.

But honestly, Zus isn't the same player he was after he started getting injured, he has been on a slight decline, not saying he still would not be an effective penalty killer, but overall, he isn't the same.

That being said, I would still KILL to have him on our team just so I can hear the ZUUUUUUUUUUUUUSSSSSSS chant again in the Wachovia Center.

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Old
06-16-2009, 09:15 AM
  #27
GKJ
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Michal Handzus had a phenomenal year last year. I don't think they really want to trade him actually.

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Old
06-16-2009, 09:19 AM
  #28
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Originally Posted by go kim johnsson 514 View Post
Michal Handzus had a phenomenal year last year. I don't think they really want to trade him actually.


Yeah, he was a beast in the Kings games I watched the past season. Made me realize right away what we lost when he left.

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Old
06-16-2009, 09:27 AM
  #29
Bennysflyers16
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I am a Briere fan, but I agree he is no longer needed in our forward group, would this be a fair deal

Kings - Briere, JVR, 09 1st
Flyers - 5th overall, Stoll, 09 2nd

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Old
06-16-2009, 09:29 AM
  #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bennysflyers16 View Post
I am a Briere fan, but I agree he is no longer needed in our forward group, would this be a fair deal

Kings - Briere, JVR, 09 1st
Flyers - 5th overall, Stoll, 08 2nd
I dont think an 08 2nd would do us any good.

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Old
06-16-2009, 09:31 AM
  #31
Bennysflyers16
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Originally Posted by DeadPhish5858 View Post
I dont think an 08 2nd would do us any good.
****, just noticed that, we would trade the pick anyway, so it is all the same

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Old
06-16-2009, 09:39 AM
  #32
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If Briere got traded, I had to say I'd happy about it, and im not a Briere hater.

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Old
06-16-2009, 09:51 AM
  #33
RIPRichardsCarter
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Originally Posted by Hockeypete49 View Post
Has Eklund ever been right? Just a question
He was right about Forsberg.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RJ8812 View Post
i only go there to read Bill Meltzer's articles
Same, but I usually read Eklund articles for a nice laugh. Figured I'd post this just to discuss the possibility.

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Old
06-16-2009, 10:10 AM
  #34
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Originally Posted by BernieParent View Post
Please note, though, that the writer provides no source for this rumour.
That's mighty fine journalism right there.

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Old
06-16-2009, 10:12 AM
  #35
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I think the JVR rumor is bogus. I dont see an elite prospect getting traded before he even makes.

If they trade both briere and JVR their forward depth goes out the window. The third line now looks like powe, carcillo and asham.

gagne-richards-giroux
hartnell-carter-lupul
carcillo-powe-asham
cote-ross-nodl

This is another panic move. There is no guarantee JBo will even sign. I am not opposed to trading Briere. I feel like this is a Jim Thome situation. I like Briere but he's the third best center on the team and possibly the fourth if you count Giroux. There is no way they give up on JVR this early. It would have to be more that than fifth. I would take Justin Williams and the fifth for Briere and JVR. I would do Briere for Justin Williams straight up. Thats three million off the books.

A better way to take three million off the books is to waive Jones. Why is this so hard for the Flyers to do. If they are trying to get JBo, they dont need jones. Timonen, JBo, Carle, Coburn,Parent, Sbisa. Thats a disgusting defense. I dont care whos in net if thats the defense in front of it.

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Old
06-16-2009, 10:16 AM
  #36
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Are we really in that much trouble that we have to ship JVR off already? Where did all the "I can't wait to see him in a Flyer's jersey" hype go?

It seems like a bad routine to draft a great player, season him to become a pro, then trade away, nhl-ready, for another draft pick, season that new player to become pro, then probably trade that person...etc etc.

Obvious sarcasm....but cmon now. I'd have to think there is another way to go about this. But that's not for me to figure out.

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Old
06-16-2009, 10:18 AM
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shoeny View Post
I think the JVR rumor is bogus. I dont see an elite prospect getting traded before he even makes.
Jack Johnson says Hi.

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Old
06-16-2009, 10:20 AM
  #38
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Originally Posted by Jester View Post
Jack Johnson says Hi.
So does logic...recent quote by Holmgren (June 10th):

"[vanRiemsdyk] recognizes he has to work on his conditioning; work on his strength, but from a hockey standpoint and from a skill standpoint, there's no doubt in my mind that he's going to be an NHL player for the Flyers sometime in the very near future. Again, I want to be careful with him, I think we all do here, not to put him in a spot before he's ready to handle it. So it's an interesting [and] big summer for James in terms of his conditioning and his mindset, and I think we'll have a real good idea at training camp on how he fairs. I think it's safe to say that he'll play some preseason games for us and see how he fits in, but he's a big, strapping young man that's still developing physically. But he's got an excellent hockey sense, he's got excellent abilities, and he gets around the ice very well for a big, young man."

Take it or leave it, but Briere trade or not, JVR is staying in Philadelphia.

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Old
06-16-2009, 10:29 AM
  #39
Bennysflyers16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TOCxNJ View Post
Are we really in that much trouble that we have to ship JVR off already? Where did all the "I can't wait to see him in a Flyer's jersey" hype go?

It seems like a bad routine to draft a great player, season him to become a pro, then trade away, nhl-ready, for another draft pick, season that new player to become pro, then probably trade that person...etc etc.

Obvious sarcasm....but cmon now. I'd have to think there is another way to go about this. But that's not for me to figure out.
I really like JVR, but the 5th overall this year will be close to his skill level imo. I also like Briere, but if they decide to get rid of his salary, JVR may be demanded in the package . If Briere stays and is healthy, he will lead the Flyers in scoring this year

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Old
06-16-2009, 10:40 AM
  #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BernieParent View Post
According to an article in today's Montreal Gazette, Holmgren has been shopping Brière around the league.

Please note, though, that the writer provides no source for this rumour.
It's from Tim Pannacio's Sunday column.

Quote:
Briere has a no-movement clause. But several sources at the Cup Final say the Flyers have been shopping him without interest. Phoenix, Los Angeles and Montreal, to be specific. Because of his no-movement clause, Briere has control over the situation unless the Flyers want to waive him to the minors to get his $6.5 million cap hit off the books. His contract runs another five years. The Flyers have to lose salary this summer if they want to sign a major free agent defenseman or trade for a top defenseman at the draft. The only other large salaries that might generate trade interest are Simon Gagne (no trade/$5.25 million) and either Joffrey Lupul ($4.25 million) or Scott Hartnell (no trade/$4.2 million)

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Old
06-16-2009, 10:47 AM
  #41
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It makes some sense to trade to #5 to get Jared Cowen.
Definitely who I'd want with the #5; love those big blueliners from the Dub.

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Old
06-16-2009, 10:51 AM
  #42
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The only reason I could see us trying to get LA's pick is if Garth Snow told Homer he'd trade the 1st overall pick for the 5th overall pick + JVR ... and now he's trying to get that 5th overall pick

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Old
06-16-2009, 10:53 AM
  #43
RIPRichardsCarter
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Originally Posted by Libertine View Post
It's from Tim Pannacio's Sunday column.
I would be completely heart broken if Hartnell or Gagne were traded. I think both contracts are fine for their production.


Quote:
Originally Posted by flyershistory View Post
The only reason I could see us trying to get LA's pick is if Garth Snow told Homer he'd trade the 1st overall pick for the 5th overall pick + JVR ... and now he's trying to get that 5th overall pick
And why would we want the 1st overall?

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Old
06-16-2009, 10:53 AM
  #44
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I'd run away laughing if we could trade Briere for either Quick or Bernier, especially Quick. He looked very good when the Flyers played the Kings last year. His numbers were also very good for a 23 year old in the NHL, 2.48 GAA, .914 SV % on a mediocre LA team, albeit with a decent defense.

If it's Briere + JVR for the 5th overall, I'd still do it. Yes, JVR was a 2nd overall pick, but in this draft, he would probably be more around 8-10. With that pick, we could select MPS who I would rather have compared to JVR at this point, or take Cowen who is more of an organizational need for the team.

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Old
06-16-2009, 10:58 AM
  #45
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Originally Posted by Quacker912 View Post
I would be completely heart broken if Hartnell or Gagne were traded. I think both contracts are fine for their production.

And why would we want the 1st overall?

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Old
06-16-2009, 10:59 AM
  #46
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^ oh sweet jesus

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Old
06-16-2009, 11:10 AM
  #47
Haute Couturier
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I would be completely heart broken if Hartnell or Gagne were traded. I think both contracts are fine for their production.
Their contracts are fine, but we have to create space somehow and it's going to be hard to move our undesirable contracts (Briere, Lupul, Carle).

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Old
06-16-2009, 11:14 AM
  #48
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Originally Posted by Bennysflyers16 View Post
I am a Briere fan, but I agree he is no longer needed in our forward group, would this be a fair deal

Kings - Briere, JVR, 09 1st
Flyers - 5th overall, Stoll, 09 2nd
I don't see how that's anything approaching a fair trade for Philly.

Break it down this way:

Briere vs. Stoll
Obviously there's a consensus that Briere, for whatever reason, hasn't played up to his contract. It's hard to argue against that point. But he's still a point-per-game player and elite power-play asset who can do more to help a team win games than Jarrett Stoll. And the cap savings between the two is not all that significant. Stoll is due to make $3.6 million next year, to Briere's $6.5 million. One could argue that paying Stoll $3.6 million is almost as much an overpayment as Briere is at $6.5 million.

JVR vs. #5 overall pick
I suppose JVR has suddenly fallen out of favor around here (like Giroux last September and Carter in Feb. 2008, when everybody wanted to deal him and a first for Kaberle). Regardless, I don't see how anyone can reasonably argue that JVR - a likely NHL-ready player at a reasonable price - is a less valuable asset than an even less proven 18-year-old. Maybe the Flyers turn that #5 overall pick into the next Tomas Vanek or Phil Kessel. Then again, maybe they get Stanislav Chistov, Gilbert Brule or Benoit Pouliot. There's absolutely no guarantee you're going to get a better player than JVR, and history suggests you're probably getting a lesser one.


First round pick 2009 vs. Second round pick 2009
Do I need to explain why dropping 14 spots isn't a gain for the Flyers?

When all is said and done, the only benefit to Philly here is some cap space ... about $2.9 million. That's certainly not enough to get Bouwmeester - or any other significant free agent. Even if it were, there's no guarantee that Bouwmeester comes to Philly simply because the cap space is there. If it's simply a matter of moving Briere to clear cap space, there are far better ways of doing it without losing your top prospect, your first round pick and picking up a $3.6 million a contract in return .

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Old
06-16-2009, 11:14 AM
  #49
Jester
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So does logic...recent quote by Holmgren (June 10th):

"[vanRiemsdyk] recognizes he has to work on his conditioning; work on his strength, but from a hockey standpoint and from a skill standpoint, there's no doubt in my mind that he's going to be an NHL player for the Flyers sometime in the very near future. Again, I want to be careful with him, I think we all do here, not to put him in a spot before he's ready to handle it. So it's an interesting [and] big summer for James in terms of his conditioning and his mindset, and I think we'll have a real good idea at training camp on how he fairs. I think it's safe to say that he'll play some preseason games for us and see how he fits in, but he's a big, strapping young man that's still developing physically. But he's got an excellent hockey sense, he's got excellent abilities, and he gets around the ice very well for a big, young man."

Take it or leave it, but Briere trade or not, JVR is staying in Philadelphia.
It's so cute that you think a Flyers GM wouldn't lie straight to your face about a potential move.

If you were really thinking over the past, you'd also dig up some Holmgren quotes that were somewhat down on JVR. JVR may very well be a great player, but if this team is going to try and go for a Cup in the short-term, I think they're significantly better off with creating some cap flexibility over the next few years. If you can get a top of the draft prospect in the process of that...I think such a deal would make a lot of sense. Doesn't mean it would work out, or that it will necessarily happen (I doubt that it will), but the suggestion that the Flyers are exploring such options makes complete sense. Logically.

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Old
06-16-2009, 11:15 AM
  #50
dbr2
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Nope.

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