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Eklund: "Flyers working a deal with Kings"

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Old
06-16-2009, 12:33 PM
  #76
CarlRacki
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jester View Post
Such as? Briere has complete control over where he ends up...and, frankly, I doubt he's going to say yes to going to LA anyway.



You say average...I say a third line center...that's paid like a third line center. He's also a guy that won 57% of his draws last year, which would instantaneously have a massive impact on our club.
You've spoken earlier in this thread (at least I think it was you ... apologies if not) about the Flyers making these moves to win a Cup now. Do you really believe that they're closer to winning a Cup with Stoll + a $2.9 million player than with Briere and JVR?


Quote:
Perhaps Holmgren doesn't see it that way...again, the consensus appears to have been that JVR didn't impress over the last couple of years.
Perhaps not, though I'd love to see where you're coming up with this consensus that JVR hasn't impressed. Even the folks at Hockey's Future, which didn't think all that highly of him when he was drafted, consider him one of the top 15 prospects in all of hockey and the guy who runs the Flyers portion of the page has him as the team's top prospect, ahead of even Giroux.

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06-16-2009, 12:37 PM
  #77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CarlRacki View Post
You've spoken earlier in this thread (at least I think it was you ... apologies if not) about the Flyers making these moves to win a Cup now. Do you really believe that they're closer to winning a Cup with Stoll + a $2.9 million player than with Briere and JVR?




Perhaps not, though I'd love to see where you're coming up with this consensus that JVR hasn't impressed. Even the folks at Hockey's Future, which didn't think all that highly of him when he was drafted, consider him one of the top 15 prospects in all of hockey and the guy who runs the Flyers portion of the page has him as the team's top prospect, ahead of even Giroux.
There have been many articles, and comments by Homer that show this. I personally dont want to go and find them all, but right after the WJC, Homer came out with some comments ,and people posted them on this board. Most people should remember it.

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Old
06-16-2009, 12:40 PM
  #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CarlRacki View Post
You've spoken earlier in this thread (at least I think it was you ... apologies if not) about the Flyers making these moves to win a Cup now. Do you really believe that they're closer to winning a Cup with Stoll + a $2.9 million player than with Briere and JVR?
Yes.

You could line up down the middle Richards, Carter, and Stoll (who actually wins draws). That's a set of centers that actually makes sense. You aren't paying someone 6.5M to be a third line wing, or forcing them onto a 1st or 2nd line, when they aren't really needed there.

2.9M makes signing Knuble no problem at all, btw.

Gagne-Richards-Giroux
Hartnell-Carter-Lupul
Knuble-Stoll-Asham/Carcillo/Powe

Quote:
Perhaps not, though I'd love to see where you're coming up with this consensus that JVR hasn't impressed. Even the folks at Hockey's Future, which didn't think all that highly of him when he was drafted, consider him one of the top 15 prospects in all of hockey and the guy who runs the Flyers portion of the page has him as the team's top prospect, ahead of even Giroux.
Go read some of the quotes coming out of the Flyers organization, they are not exactly glowing. I have no real opinion on JVR, as I haven't really gotten a chance to see him. But if you read the word coming out of the organization and other outlets, there is a lot of "downer" appraisals of JVR. He could prove all of them wrong (not the first time it happened), but lets not ignore what the tea leaves have been saying the last year or so.

And they definitely aren't viewing him in higher esteem than Giroux right now, and I don't believe they have for some time.

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06-16-2009, 12:40 PM
  #79
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Originally Posted by BernieParent View Post
According to an article in today's Montreal Gazette, Holmgren has been shopping Brière around the league.

Please note, though, that the writer provides no source for this rumour.

It all came from Timmy P. who provided no source as well.

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06-16-2009, 12:42 PM
  #80
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Originally Posted by Flyersguru View Post
It all came from Timmy P. who provided no source as well.
Well, he does WORK for the organization...

I would be shocked if they weren't shopping Briere...doesn't mean there will be takers, or Briere will be willing to waive his NMC.

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06-16-2009, 12:45 PM
  #81
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Originally Posted by dbr2 View Post
Found another article on the topic. However, the Habs and Kings don't want anything to do with Briere.

"The folks in Philly have talked to the Canadiens and the Los Angeles Kings, but neither team was interested. There also is a report that they have talked to the Phoenix Coyotes, although you have to wonder whether anyone has the authority to talk on behalf of the team that may or may not be bankrupt and/or on the way to Hamilton."

http://www2.canada.com/topics/sports...6-853bd647107e
see page 1.

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06-16-2009, 12:46 PM
  #82
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My bad man.

No longer there now. Thanks for the heads up.

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06-16-2009, 12:47 PM
  #83
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I disagree about Cowen definitely being there at 7. Phoenix has Boedker Turris Mueller Tikhonov Lisin along with guys like Doan and the supremely talented Scottie Upshall. They have forwards, they need defense and Cowen is the second best defenseman in the draft. Idk what they will do but to say he'll definitely be there at 7 is false IMO.

If Briere and JVR gets the 5th overall I'll be ecstatic. We can still get a first line player who will be ready in a year or two, as well as free up plenty of cap space.

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06-16-2009, 12:52 PM
  #84
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I would rather us bring Stoll to Philly other then Handzeus, though I love Zeus as much as the next guy. I think Stoll would fit better.

Also to whoever commented on Preissing[sp?], please god no. If it was absoultely necessary, then there's a possibility I'd still be pulling the trigger. I also really like the 5th overall that's floating around..

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06-16-2009, 01:04 PM
  #85
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doubt LA has interest in Briere anyway. they are in rebuild mode, have been for the last 10 years and will be for the next 10 years at least.
Another large market team acting like they are a small market team.
The Kings are destined to suck for the next decade.

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Old
06-16-2009, 01:21 PM
  #86
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Originally Posted by FireStevensDotCom View Post
doubt LA has interest in Briere anyway. they are in rebuild mode, have been for the last 10 years and will be for the next 10 years at least.
Another large market team acting like they are a small market team.
The Kings are destined to suck for the next decade.
it's really sad, they have a tremendous collection of young talent too

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Old
06-16-2009, 01:22 PM
  #87
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Originally Posted by FireStevensDotCom View Post
doubt LA has interest in Briere anyway. they are in rebuild mode, have been for the last 10 years and will be for the next 10 years at least.
Another large market team acting like they are a small market team.
The Kings are destined to suck for the next decade.
Wait til GKJ sees this one.

That is pretty much completely false. With guys like Brown, Kopitar, Frolov, and now Pronger on D, that trade did actually happen right, they are going to be a good team in the next few years, if not starting this year. They are going to be like the Blackhawks, they have a good young team.

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Old
06-16-2009, 01:25 PM
  #88
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Originally Posted by UseYourAllusion View Post
it's really sad, they have a tremendous collection of young talent too
yes they do. they have the young talent, the prospects and the cap room to make some moves to really get themselves to be a factor in the West if they wanted to.
but they are "staying the course" as they like to say.

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06-16-2009, 01:29 PM
  #89
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I wouldn't be upset if the Briere era continues another year. It's only a matter of time until he moves along, but I'm certainly OK with one more year. He helps the offense, the defense not so much.

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06-16-2009, 01:30 PM
  #90
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Originally Posted by flyersguy33 View Post
Wait til GKJ sees this one.

That is pretty much completely false. With guys like Brown, Kopitar, Frolov, and now Pronger on D, that trade did actually happen right, they are going to be a good team in the next few years, if not starting this year. They are going to be like the Blackhawks, they have a good young team.
how is it false? they have been rebuilding for how long now?
I do follow the Kings and their prospects btw. I know how they operate.
Right now LA is a one line team.
Frolov to me can be so much better then he is. I thought he was going to be so much better then he is.
Kopitar is a very good player and so is Brown. but after that its a collection of what ifs and what could of beens at forward. ok Stoll is decent I guess but he makes to much for what he brings
Most of their prospects are on the blueline. they have no forward dept at all
Brian Boyle? he is heading to bustland.
Ted Purcell? he is soft as hell. hit him once or twice and he goes away.
They have Pronger? that rumor was squashed by Lombardi last week.
Like I said they have some players they could move to land a impact player or 2 Heatley, Pronger ect but they seem to have little interest in doing so.


Last edited by GoneFullHextall: 06-16-2009 at 01:41 PM.
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Old
06-16-2009, 01:38 PM
  #91
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CarlRacki View Post
I don't see how that's anything approaching a fair trade for Philly.

Break it down this way:

Briere vs. Stoll
Obviously there's a consensus that Briere, for whatever reason, hasn't played up to his contract. It's hard to argue against that point. But he's still a point-per-game player and elite power-play asset who can do more to help a team win games than Jarrett Stoll. And the cap savings between the two is not all that significant. Stoll is due to make $3.6 million next year, to Briere's $6.5 million. One could argue that paying Stoll $3.6 million is almost as much an overpayment as Briere is at $6.5 million.

JVR vs. #5 overall pick
I suppose JVR has suddenly fallen out of favor around here (like Giroux last September and Carter in Feb. 2008, when everybody wanted to deal him and a first for Kaberle). Regardless, I don't see how anyone can reasonably argue that JVR - a likely NHL-ready player at a reasonable price - is a less valuable asset than an even less proven 18-year-old. Maybe the Flyers turn that #5 overall pick into the next Tomas Vanek or Phil Kessel. Then again, maybe they get Stanislav Chistov, Gilbert Brule or Benoit Pouliot. There's absolutely no guarantee you're going to get a better player than JVR, and history suggests you're probably getting a lesser one.


First round pick 2009 vs. Second round pick 2009
Do I need to explain why dropping 14 spots isn't a gain for the Flyers?

When all is said and done, the only benefit to Philly here is some cap space ... about $2.9 million. That's certainly not enough to get Bouwmeester - or any other significant free agent. Even if it were, there's no guarantee that Bouwmeester comes to Philly simply because the cap space is there. If it's simply a matter of moving Briere to clear cap space, there are far better ways of doing it without losing your top prospect, your first round pick and picking up a $3.6 million a contract in return .
Well first of all, we are never going to get a fair deal. We are up against the cap and have no leverage. No team wants to help us out of our cap jam, especially if we are dealing an undesirable contract such as Briere's. So get the idea of a fair deal out of your head because it's not happening. We must create cap space and unfortunately we'll be taking one on the chin to do that.

Secondly the proposed deal is not that bad all things considering, IMO. The way I see it JVR and the 5th is pretty much a lateral move. Yes, JVR is further along in his development but he is an unproven player coming off a disappointing year. I don't see how that is worth much more than an 18 year old unproven top prospect.

Stoll is not as good as Briere, but he would fill a huge need (3rd line center that can with faceoffs) and is good return for someone with such an undesirable contract. Going from our first to a 2nd is the price you pay for having to deal such an undesirable contract.

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06-16-2009, 01:41 PM
  #92
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Originally Posted by FlyerX View Post
I wouldn't be upset if the Briere era continues another year. It's only a matter of time until he moves along, but I'm certainly OK with one more year. He helps the offense, the defense not so much.
I would only because if there is a cap drop next year it is going to become even more difficult to move him than it is this year, which doesn't even seem that likely.

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06-16-2009, 02:02 PM
  #93
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Originally Posted by Libertine View Post
I would only because if there is a cap drop next year it is going to become even more difficult to move him than it is this year, which doesn't even seem that likely.
I don't know what's going to happen with the cap, it should be getting set soon with UFA time coming up in 2 weeks. I was spot on in calling $58M last year. I don't know what revenue time frame they look at. If it's the 2008 calender year, it may go up $1M or so. If Briere can stay healthy, help keep the PP near the top of the league and score around a point per game, they can use him.

Biron out for Emery has bought them some breathing room.

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06-16-2009, 02:02 PM
  #94
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Couple things.

A) Trading JVR makes no sense right now. Given the fact that their have been persistent rumors about him, I don't think he has a huge amount of value plus outside of MSP, the top forward prospects in the draft are centers and why would we need Cowen when we already have 2 stay at home prospects in Marshall and Parent?

B) If they want to win now (which seems to be the direction they're trending in), why does trading Briere make sense? Sign a 3rd line C, trade Lupul, put Briere in the top-6.

I can always see some rationale for trading Briere, but considering that they seem to be trying to win in the next couple years, trading him for a pick that won't be ready to contribute doesn't make very much sense.

Stoll wouldn't be bad although his -23 year a couple years ago is a little odd.

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06-16-2009, 02:03 PM
  #95
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I also understand we'll be on the hook for just under 3mil per for JVR, not even sure how we fit that in. He may be worth well more than that down the line but I doubt he will be those first couple of years. We may be in a position where we overpay for his developmental years and then can't even afford to reap the rewards later on. Thats what our cap problems have brought us to.

Anyone know how much of a difference the bonuses on the entry level contract are for the 5th overall as opposed to the 2nd?

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06-16-2009, 02:05 PM
  #96
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Libertine View Post
Secondly the proposed deal is not that bad all things considering, IMO. The way I see it JVR and the 5th is pretty much a lateral move. Yes, JVR is further along in his development but he is an unproven player coming off a disappointing year. I don't see how that is worth much more than an 18 year old unproven top prospect.
The fact that this statement is out there just continues to amaze me. JVR was the best player on a UNH team that significantly overachieved this past year and was very damn close to knocking BU out of the NCAAs.

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06-16-2009, 02:06 PM
  #97
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I would only because if there is a cap drop next year it is going to become even more difficult to move him than it is this year, which doesn't even seem that likely.
The thing is, he (hopefully) will be healthy all year and put up a huge amount of points playing on the first line ala Gagne-Richards-Briere. To round off the top 6, Hartnell-Carter-Giroux. Yes, i'll take that top 6. Give them the minutes the top 2 lines should get on a normal team and it makes the 3rd and 4th lines not so important. I'm more concerned with getting rid of Lupul, Jones contracts, and im one of the biggest fans of Lupul on these flyers boards.

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06-16-2009, 02:14 PM
  #98
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That UNH team was not very good. JVR was usually the best player on the ice for UNH on a team that well had very little talent. Of course he didnt put up the "stats" that most people wanted to see because he had no one most nights to help him.
Take JVR and the few good seniors they had off last years team and I am afraid to see how bad that UNH team is going to be this coming season.

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06-16-2009, 02:15 PM
  #99
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If Holmgren does do Briere and our 1st or Briere and JVR for the 5th overall, it HAS to be because he's working J-Bo.

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06-16-2009, 02:16 PM
  #100
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The thing is, he (hopefully) will be healthy all year and put up a huge amount of points playing on the first line ala Gagne-Richards-Briere. To round off the top 6, Hartnell-Carter-Giroux. Yes, i'll take that top 6. Give them the minutes the top 2 lines should get on a normal team and it makes the 3rd and 4th lines not so important. I'm more concerned with getting rid of Lupul, Jones contracts, and im one of the biggest fans of Lupul on these flyers boards.
If the Flyers do end up moving Lupul or Briere, I want to see a Hartnell-Carter-Giroux line as well.

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