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Kaberle to The Wild for Zidlicky and Harding

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Old
06-17-2009, 11:58 AM
  #101
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brevard View Post
What I learned from reading 4 pages on this thread.
Leaf fans feel
Josh Harding, an NHL goalie (who has played very well and stolen games at the NHL level) is a prospect of unknown skill and has very limited value.
Jiri Tlusty, an AHLer who has scored there (putting him in a group with stars like Jason Krog, Krys Kolanos, Andy Hilbert and Brandon Bochenski) will without doubt have a great NHL career and has more upside than Harding does.
Go read them again without anti-leaf googles.

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06-17-2009, 11:59 AM
  #102
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Originally Posted by The Vagabond View Post
Take out Zid and add Burns and either a second or Prosepct

that frees up money for the leafs to get Jaboy.

I am sure the leaf fans would think getting their fuure number 1 goalie and a stud on d-man would not be anough. But I think Burns/Harding and a pick wopuld be fair enough
What?
Are you making a proposal for Heatley? Burns is just as good as Kaberle, and he happens to be 7 years younger and signed longer and cheaper. Oy Gevalt.

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06-17-2009, 11:59 AM
  #103
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brevard View Post
What I learned from reading 4 pages on this thread.
Leaf fans feel
Josh Harding, an NHL goalie (who has played very well and stolen games at the NHL level) is a prospect of unknown skill and has very limited value.
Jiri Tlusty, an AHLer who has scored there (putting him in a group with stars like Jason Krog, Krys Kolanos, Andy Hilbert and Brandon Bochenski) will without doubt have a great NHL career and has more upside than Harding does.
That is quite the biased and incorrect sumary you got there. Most leaf fans, like me, want to get Harding, but we feel we can get more for Kaberle. I would do it if Minny added a 2nd 10. No, we don't think Tlusty is going to own the NHL. We are saying this guy is developing well in the AHL, and produced PPG as a 20 year old, which is great for his age. He is a good prospect, and if he keeps developing this way, IMO he will be a good top 6 winger. That is what I have read.

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Old
06-17-2009, 12:02 PM
  #104
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Sounds like a fair trade to me.

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06-17-2009, 12:05 PM
  #105
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brevard View Post
What I learned from reading 4 pages on this thread.
Leaf fans feel
Josh Harding, an NHL goalie (who has played very well and stolen games at the NHL level) is a prospect of unknown skill and has very limited value.
Jiri Tlusty, an AHLer who has scored there (putting him in a group with stars like Jason Krog, Krys Kolanos, Andy Hilbert and Brandon Bochenski) will without doubt have a great NHL career and has more upside than Harding does.
Harding (24) has a whopping 19 NHL wins.

Tlusty (21) is still a prospect. The Leafs aren't in a position to be trading prospects. Although, if Minnesota wanted to trade Harding for Tlusty, I doubt many Leaf fans would interject.

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06-17-2009, 12:06 PM
  #106
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Tlusty is definitely at least as valuable as the 12th overall pick this year and almost certainly more (to the leafs who want to be competing sooner rather than later). He's also at least as valuable as Harding which stems from the fact that goaltenders just don't have that much trade value (ala Bryzgalov)....Tlusty demonstrated his skills this year in the AHL and will be up as a top 6 forward in the NHL within 2 years.

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Old
06-17-2009, 12:06 PM
  #107
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Burt the Dog View Post
To MIN: Kaberle, Tlusty, 2nd RD pick



To TOR: Zidlicky, Harding, Boogaard, 1st RD pick
No !!

Tlusty is one of our most NHL ready prospects. He showed flashes of the potential he has in the AHL last year. He's not going to be a gift wrap with Kaberle.

We dont want your 1st rounder, if we're giving up our previous 1st for it.

The original deal makes sense for the Leafs, in that, it opens up even more cap space for the 2010 season, where Burke wants to make his real splash.

This should be a nice, even deal.



Tomas Kaberle



Zidlicky
Harding
Sheppard

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Old
06-17-2009, 12:06 PM
  #108
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Quote:
Originally Posted by embracedbias View Post
Come draft day Kaberle's NTC will be voided until the beginning of the season (same with Kubina). Hence all the Kaberle/Kubina proposals.

Burke also has a policy where he doesn't ask players to waive their NTC/NMC... so if they aren't traded in the off season, they won't be traded.
Oh yeah, i read that. Interesting.

Then this deal starts to make sense.

Too bad it's Al Strachan reporting it.

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06-17-2009, 12:07 PM
  #109
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LIMITING REAGENT View Post
That is quite the biased and incorrect sumary you got there. Most leaf fans, like me, want to get Harding, but we feel we can get more for Kaberle. I would do it if Minny added a 2nd 10. No, we don't think Tlusty is going to own the NHL. We are saying this guy is developing well in the AHL, and produced PPG as a 20 year old, which is great for his age. He is a good prospect, and if he keeps developing this way, IMO he will be a good top 6 winger. That is what I have read.
I think while you guys could potentially get better value, assuming Harding doesn't totally pan out... he can be a top 5-10 goalie in the league, easily. If you can get that, I think you take it. And Tlusty will become a top 6 winger, but I still think you give him up for Harding in a second (is that the argument? I haven't been reading this).
Leafs can easily replace Tlusty with the 7th pick. There's no Harding this year.

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06-17-2009, 12:07 PM
  #110
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If it's only Zidlicky and Harding, then no thanks. Kaberle is a #2 defenceman with a great contract and with 2 years left on it. Why trade him for just a lesser defenceman and a goalie with potential? I'm not asking for the farm but the value isn't far off.

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06-17-2009, 12:08 PM
  #111
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As a leafs fan, I'd be hesitant to do it. Unless Allaire sees something special in the kid, i think it's too much of a gamble for the downgrade from Kaberle to Zidlicky.

On the hand, it's possible Allaire turns Harding into a stud, and Zidlicky can be swapped at the deadline next year for a nice return. Puck moving defensemen are always in demand, and he could probably get us a late 1st from a desperate team.

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06-17-2009, 12:08 PM
  #112
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Salsabil View Post
No !!

Tlusty is one of our most NHL ready prospects. He showed flashes of the potential he has in the AHL last year. He's not going to be a gift wrap with Kaberle.

We dont want your 1st rounder, if we're giving up our previous 1st for it.

The original deal makes sense for the Leafs, in that, it opens up even more cap space for the 2010 season, where Burke wants to make his real splash.

This should be a nice, even deal.



Tomas Kaberle



Zidlicky
Harding
Sheppard
I don't think Minni does this...

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Old
06-17-2009, 12:10 PM
  #113
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jcrew View Post
I don't think Minni does this...
Maybe if it was Ray Sheppard instead

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06-17-2009, 12:12 PM
  #114
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Originally Posted by Jcrew View Post
I don't think Minni does this...
Agreed. Minny's high end talent is lacking. No way they add Sheppard.

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Old
06-17-2009, 12:13 PM
  #115
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I like Harding, but it'll take more than Zidlicky to make up the difference in value for Kaberle.

Minnesota needs to upgrade with youth, as do the Leafs. Swapping veterans doesn't make sense. A deal surrounding Harding and Stajan, with minor assets making up the differences would be more likely. Both sides would be dealing from strengths by swapping two guys in their mid-20's.

Think of the Vermette/Leclaire deal.

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06-17-2009, 12:14 PM
  #116
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I do not like the deal.

First. We need to choose a direction. Build around the foundation we have. Burns, Koivu, Schultz, Backstrom etc... Players whos time is now.

Or build around guys like Sheppard, Cuma, Gillies and Harding. While still keeping the Koivus and Burns. But seeing players like Johnnson, Zidlecki, Brunno and Nolan as gone.

Zidlecki is a guy that will contribute to the team this year. Maybe not as much as Kaberle. But Kaberle will not far exceed his play. Then we lose Harding. Making it a bad idea to build youth around a veteran goalie.

Its a lateral move. Right now i do not see us as major contenders, borderline making the playoffs.

Now if we sign Gabby and get lucky with another top FA. Then a Kaberle will make a difference. Its glorified patchwork at this point. I do not like it.

I see the wild as having Cuma, Harding, Gillies 1st, Pouliot on the block.

Or Zidlecki, Boogaard, Johnnson, Brunette, Backstrom and Nolan. But not a mix and match.

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06-17-2009, 12:15 PM
  #117
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Quote:
Originally Posted by All_blueandwhite View Post
As a leafs fan, I'd be hesitant to do it. Unless Allaire sees something special in the kid, i think it's too much of a gamble for the downgrade from Kaberle to Zidlicky.

On the hand, it's possible Allaire turns Harding into a stud, and Zidlicky can be swapped at the deadline next year for a nice return. Puck moving defensemen are always in demand, and he could probably get us a late 1st from a desperate team.
Zidlicky won't be getting a nice return. Late 1st... lolz

There's a reason why one of the first moves the new Wild GM apparently wants to make is to dump Zidlicky.

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06-17-2009, 12:17 PM
  #118
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jcrew View Post
I think while you guys could potentially get better value, assuming Harding doesn't totally pan out... he can be a top 5-10 goalie in the league, easily. If you can get that, I think you take it. And Tlusty will become a top 6 winger, but I still think you give him up for Harding in a second (is that the argument? I haven't been reading this).
Leafs can easily replace Tlusty with the 7th pick. There's no Harding this year.
I would not do Harding for Tlusty. I know this will not go well with many. I'm not saying this because of the value. The Leafs, lately, have had bad luck with goalies. I would rather draft Olivier Roy, or some other goalie with the second this year, and keep one of our only good prospects. And the arguement is for the bottom post.

Quote:
Originally Posted by brevard View Post
What I learned from reading 4 pages on this thread.
Leaf fans feel
Josh Harding, an NHL goalie (who has played very well and stolen games at the NHL level) is a prospect of unknown skill and has very limited value.
Jiri Tlusty, an AHLer who has scored there (putting him in a group with stars like Jason Krog, Krys Kolanos, Andy Hilbert and Brandon Bochenski) will without doubt have a great NHL career and has more upside than Harding does.

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06-17-2009, 12:19 PM
  #119
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From Leafs management standpoint i doubt Burke will trade Kaberle for lesser defenceman 1 year older than him. It doesn't make any sense at all, if we are getting a defenceman back its a prospect with same potencial as kaberle or young NHL defenceman with same potencial.

The deal would make more sense for Leafs if it was Sheppard + Harding, but as some fans said Wild are in need of a rebuild/retool so they shouldn't be trading their youth away; unless they want to contend now.

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06-17-2009, 12:20 PM
  #120
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Sheppard + Harding + 2nd 09 for Kaberle.

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06-17-2009, 12:23 PM
  #121
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eraser View Post
Sheppard + Harding + 2nd 09 for Kaberle.
Minnesota doesn't have a second this year. I don't think MIN would do this deal, because Sheppard is one of their good young players signed to a cheap contract.

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06-17-2009, 12:23 PM
  #122
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eraser View Post
Sheppard + Harding + 2nd 09 for Kaberle.
If you still think Kaberle can get this much, you are honestly out of touch with reality.

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06-17-2009, 12:23 PM
  #123
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This would be a good deal for Toronto. Think of when the Kings traded Visnovsky. We got Stoll and Greene. People claimed we got ***** or whatever, but those two guys are immensely important parts of our core now.

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06-17-2009, 12:28 PM
  #124
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Originally Posted by Reaper45 View Post
This would be a good deal for Toronto. Think of when the Kings traded Visnovsky. We got Stoll and Greene. People claimed we got ***** or whatever, but those two guys are immensely important parts of our core now.
Yah, but Zidlicky wouldn't form a part of our core. Chances are he leaves after next season.

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06-17-2009, 12:31 PM
  #125
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LIMITING REAGENT View Post
I would not do Harding for Tlusty. I know this will not go well with many. I'm not saying this because of the value. The Leafs, lately, have had bad luck with goalies. I would rather draft Olivier Roy, or some other goalie with the second this year, and keep one of our only good prospects. And the arguement is for the bottom post.
Thing is though, in the system/young wingers for the Leafs:
Kulemin, Grabo, Hayes, Tlusty... assuming you draft MSP, that's a lot of wingers. It's basically a situation of organizational needs.

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