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Taking a look back at 25 years worth of Habs prospect top 10 lists

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Old
06-16-2009, 04:24 PM
  #26
Joey
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Originally Posted by Ozymandias View Post
I thought the Habs refused because they didn't want to trade Markov?
I've never heard that. It was always Theodore to me

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06-16-2009, 04:48 PM
  #27
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Originally Posted by Ozymandias View Post
I thought the Habs refused because they didn't want to trade Markov?
I'm sure it was all about Theodore...

At that time, I don't think many people were expecting Markov to become that good...i remember him on the ice having a lot of problem in his zone.

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Old
06-16-2009, 04:54 PM
  #28
Metropolitsky
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Timo Vertala ???

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Old
06-16-2009, 04:59 PM
  #29
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Originally Posted by Djee#9 View Post
Timo Vertala ???
You don't remember the great Timo Vertala?

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Old
06-16-2009, 05:05 PM
  #30
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Originally Posted by Freaky Habs Fan View Post
From 2003 to 2007, 6 players of each top 10 made the NHL (even if some are there a few times), and a few of the others still have great chances of making it. If only a few of those players could break out, it would be sweet because we are very good at developing NHL talent, but they are just not fulfilling their full potential...
It's either that we're drafting players who lack the potential to become top-liners or that we fail in developing them into anything more than solid 2nd or 3rd liners. Cases can be made as to which factor is holding us back, but in the end it's a combination of both.

Sure we've only picked in the top-5 once during the current regime, but we've averaged out to picking 14th with our first round selection between 2001-2007. Our draft postition isn't a valid excuse. Surely, picking in the top-half of the first round for more than half a decade should yield more than a bunch of above average players/prospects, but apart from Price that currently isn't the case.

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06-16-2009, 05:10 PM
  #31
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Originally Posted by Habsfan18 View Post
You don't remember the great Timo Vertala?
Buturlin-Chouinard-Vertala

Our future

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Old
06-16-2009, 05:25 PM
  #32
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Originally Posted by Ozymandias View Post
In 1999, nobody expected Markov to become what he is now.

In fact, I'm pretty sure that if you proclaimed Markov would become a top-10 D in this league, you would be told that you wear rose-colored glasses and that Markov would probably become no better than Patrice Brisebois.


Can't wait to see one or several of Subban, McD, Fischer, Weber and others try to reach for that, and I have a pretty good feeling that at least one of them may become an underated superstar like Markov.
A lot of people did try to hype him up and he was compared to Brisebois quite often. Of course back then being compared to Brisebois wasn't really a bad thing but it did mean he would be nothing more than a 2nd pairing pp dman, not the all around puck mover he has become.

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Old
06-16-2009, 06:04 PM
  #33
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Originally Posted by Habsfan18 View Post
Yeah guys, using my old issues of THN I thought I would compile a set of lists from the old "Future Watch" and "In The System" issues. The first "In The System issue was in 1989. In 1992 it became "Future Watch."
I hope more people read this thread, it's a great example of just what has been wrong with this club in the past for many years and you can see the change in direction.

When you look at those names from '89 to '03 and the impact those players had on the Habs, it's painful to look at. Granted after this past season there's going to be doubts and concerns among some since it was such a brutal year for the young Habs but hopefully there's a good chance they will bounce back and to what they did the previous year (although it's still a total mystery what the makeup of the roster will be next year, so it's hard to say how they will rebound if say worst case not a single UFA is signed and not trades are made (but all RFA's back) then we are likely talking about a team that will likely be in big trouble to win.

That said I got to think Pleks, Higgins, Price, and A.Kostitsyn will be fine, both Pleks and Kostitsyn have back to back 20 goal seasons, so if they can get back on track and Higgins gets back to the 20+ goal level with Price healthy and repeating what he was doing after the Huet trade, then it's a good start.

The interesting thing to me is more when Price hits his prime, with Subban and Pacioretty. At 21 and under, it's still very early in their development (granted Price is much further along) but these are the three that I have the most hope for from our system. Plus there's a number of interesting guys like McDonagh, Trunev, Kristo, Weber, Stejskal, Quailer, Maxwell, Fischer so I expect at least a couple to be impact players for the Habs down the road.

But as much as I love how the 2007 draft is shaping up, would be nice to start getting some top line talent. I know people will say you have to draft high and the Habs have had only one top 5 pick some 25 years, but we have to find a way somehow, although I do admit to being a big fan of having 4 strong lines to roll that all know and play their role to a tee.

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Old
06-16-2009, 07:43 PM
  #34
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Originally Posted by FlyingKostitsyn View Post
Buturlin-Chouinard-Vertala

Our future
Striking fear in defense corps around the NHL.

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Old
06-17-2009, 03:18 AM
  #35
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Originally Posted by Weip View Post
David Fischer What a waste...
Care to elaborate? arguments are overrated...

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Old
06-17-2009, 11:27 AM
  #36
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Care to elaborate? arguments are overrated...
He probably just said it because he hasn't made the big show yet.

Fischer still has time.

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Old
06-17-2009, 11:32 AM
  #37
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Originally Posted by peperebougon View Post
Care to elaborate? arguments are overrated...
He didn't make the team at 18... waste

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Old
06-17-2009, 11:58 AM
  #38
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We clearly have some prospect depth, some quality character guys coming up. The reason for our lack of elite prospects is, #1, if they were known as elite, they wouldn't reach 20th. Some players are steals, but you only know after the develop, like markov or whatever. If they are known as superstars at earlier than 19-20 years old...they'd be drafted top 10. #2 is montreal takes a certain criteria, they go after 'BPA' but BPA can mean anything depending on the person's POV. For us, we get safe picks with good attitudes. They want players who can handle the media, have good character and so on. Maybe in the later rounds, the grabovski's or whatever, but watch interviews of mcdonagh, fischer and so on, these look like young men, not kids.

Maybe once we stock the prospect pool they will tell timmins to change criteria "Depth is no longer an issue, go for home-run/miss players, we can afford the risk" and that's it. These guys have jobs, directions and obligations to do. We can sit and talk about why we have no elite talent but looking back, we had almost nothing. They were prob instructed to build a foundation, a youth movement rather than a superstar search(it's not easy to find one). Internal competition for jobs, young players on the roster and so on are keys to building success under the salary cap era.

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Old
06-17-2009, 01:01 PM
  #39
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Originally Posted by LyricalLyricist View Post
Maybe once we stock the prospect pool they will tell timmins to change criteria "Depth is no longer an issue, go for home-run/miss players, we can afford the risk" and that's it. These guys have jobs, directions and obligations to do. We can sit and talk about why we have no elite talent but looking back, we had almost nothing. They were prob instructed to build a foundation, a youth movement rather than a superstar search(it's not easy to find one). Internal competition for jobs, young players on the roster and so on are keys to building success under the salary cap era.
Timmins has gone for home run types imo. Trunev, Kostitsyn come to mind.

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Old
06-17-2009, 02:20 PM
  #40
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Timmins has gone for home run types imo. Trunev, Kostitsyn come to mind.
Kostitsyn was listed as a top 5. I don't think they considered him a home run/miss. They saw it as, his medical conditional can be put under control, we have the 10th overall pick on a top 5 talent. No brainer.

Trunev is a pick in the later rounds. You might as well go home-run/miss, because even if you don't, the large majority are miss anyway.

I was talking about first 2-3 rounds.

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Old
06-17-2009, 02:30 PM
  #41
montreal
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Originally Posted by LyricalLyricist View Post
Kostitsyn was listed as a top 5. I don't think they considered him a home run/miss. They saw it as, his medical conditional can be put under control, we have the 10th overall pick on a top 5 talent. No brainer.

Trunev is a pick in the later rounds. You might as well go home-run/miss, because even if you don't, the large majority are miss anyway.

I was talking about first 2-3 rounds.
Well based off my definition, Kostitsyn is exactly a home run type, since before his draft year he was playing in the EEHL and from what I recall, wasn't hyped at all until he had a big showing at the WJC's as a 17 year old and then at the U-18's.

I don't know why you would narrow home run type picks into 2 rounds.

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Old
06-17-2009, 04:13 PM
  #42
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Well based off my definition, Kostitsyn is exactly a home run type, since before his draft year he was playing in the EEHL and from what I recall, wasn't hyped at all until he had a big showing at the WJC's as a 17 year old and then at the U-18's.

I don't know why you would narrow home run type picks into 2 rounds.
It wasn't exclusive to the first 2-3 rounds. Merely suggesting our prospects aren't exactly off the board early on. They all played in recognized leagues, mind you, some still in HS. As for Kostitsyn, i'd be lying if i said I knew much about him pre-draft but as far as I know he was ranked top 10 and we picked him top 10. I don't see it as a huge risk. The year before being drafted, he did play in the RSL. While he hadn't been there for years it's tough for me to suggest he was off the map or had something besides medical conditions truely holding him back to make the NHL one day. He's got his flaws, not saying he doesn't but medical condition aside, he would've been selected before #10 probably. Even selection aside, I heard everyone expected him to be a star, so doesn't sound like many expected much else.

I understand your POV though and it's probably my fault for not being clear in what i mean, I still doubt I am, but wtv.

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Old
06-17-2009, 04:50 PM
  #43
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Andrei Markov... even underrated as a prospect.

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Old
06-17-2009, 04:56 PM
  #44
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Originally Posted by LyricalLyricist View Post
Kostitsyn was listed as a top 5. I don't think they considered him a home run/miss. They saw it as, his medical conditional can be put under control, we have the 10th overall pick on a top 5 talent. No brainer.

Trunev is a pick in the later rounds. You might as well go home-run/miss, because even if you don't, the large majority are miss anyway.

I was talking about first 2-3 rounds.
Trunev was expected to go as a first rounder this year. At least, that's what was said of him last year when the habs nabbed him.

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Old
06-17-2009, 05:22 PM
  #45
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That class of 89 is very impressive

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06-17-2009, 05:26 PM
  #46
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That class of 89 is very impressive
Its because they drafted more in the Q

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Old
06-18-2009, 02:25 AM
  #47
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Trunev was expected to go as a first rounder this year. At least, that's what was said of him last year when the habs nabbed him.
yup, that's true, so even then, it suggests they don't do many home-runs, some projects but nothing enormous just yet.

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Old
06-18-2009, 02:53 AM
  #48
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Its because they drafted more in the Q
dans le Q?

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Old
07-13-2009, 01:44 PM
  #49
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Those 2005 and 2006 lists are almost entirely filled with people who made the NHL I have no doubt Perezhogin could make the league if wanted to. And Yann Danis isn't a starter, but he's in the NHL. Incredible hit ratio. Even top prospects bust in large numbers.

Even without stars and with Gainey's recent heavy shedding of assets we developed, an organization than is carrying 7+ legit NHL talents in it's prospect list year after year is going to have flexibility in the future.

What a noticable difference between the mid-late nineties lists and Timmons' ones in terms of the number of outright busts.

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Old
07-13-2009, 01:45 PM
  #50
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You can really see the difference. More prospects from 2003 out have reached the NHL level in comparison to the prospects during our dark days at the turn of the century.

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