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Old
06-17-2009, 09:30 PM
  #26
SLAPSHOT723
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Originally Posted by CREW99AW View Post
Really?Cause their isn't 1 thing in that proposal worth moving 1st overall for imo.

The Isles had a ton of picks last draft,have a ton going into this draft.Instead of 2-3 nice players,I'd rather see the isles try to land a great player.
Gagner's not just a "nice player", he's a pretty special player.

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Old
06-17-2009, 09:30 PM
  #27
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Originally Posted by IslesFTW View Post
No, before he edited the first post, the proposal was very different. It was in favor of the Isles before he edited more assets going the Oilers way.
Lol, now Streit and Gilbert are back out of the proposal. Change your opinion on if you'd do it?

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06-17-2009, 09:32 PM
  #28
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Originally Posted by IslesFTW View Post
No, before he edited the first post, the proposal was very different. It was in favor of the Isles before he edited more assets going the Oilers way.

But yeah, I would still take the original deal. Gagner, a potential forward prospect who scored 40+ points as a 19 year old(!), a top 10 pick in a loaded draft who we can turn into a Jared Cowen(solving our defensive prospect drought), a speedy top six forward, and we could probably get a second or third rounder too. I'd rather take my chance on that than putting my eggs in one John Tavares basket. Look at how Alexei Yashin turned out as a top pick.
How does this look?

1st '10
1st '09
Cogliano
Gagner

for

1st '09
Hunter

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06-17-2009, 09:34 PM
  #29
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I'd like to make a pitch for the potential tavares pick but both Coglinao and Gagner is too much for me.

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Old
06-17-2009, 09:35 PM
  #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slapshot723 View Post
Gagner's not just a "nice player", he's a pretty special player.
While,Tavares/Hedman are described by nhl scouts as possible franchise players.

Guerin said after the season that Streit should be named the isle next captain,while Weight has said he's among the 5 best defensemen Weight's ever played with.

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Old
06-17-2009, 09:37 PM
  #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Bugg View Post
How does this look?

1st '10
1st '09
Cogliano
Gagner

for

1st '09
Hunter
I must admit I would not be able to turn that down if I was Snow. Pretty good deal for both sides.

Great young first line potential forward in Gagner, good speedy forward in Cogliano would speed up our rebuild a lot. Then maybe we can get Los Angeles' pick for the 10th overall, and one or two of our second rounders or if need be our 26th overall. Draft Cowen. And then we have two first rounders next year(our own, and Edmonton's).

Gagner
Okposo
Bailey
Comeau
Cogliano
Gervais
Cowen
Petrov
Bergenheim
Nielsen
Streit
Ness
2 2010 first rounders


That would be great.


Last edited by IslesFTW: 06-17-2009 at 09:45 PM.
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Old
06-17-2009, 09:41 PM
  #32
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Originally Posted by CREW99AW View Post
While,Tavares/Hedman are described by nhl scouts as possible franchise players.
Patrik Stefan was supposed to be able to be a face of a franchise.
How about Yashin at the second spot?
What if the Avs didn't make the Lindros deal?
Kovalchuk is good, and is a franchise player, but how are the Thrashers?
etc. etc.

If you can get Gagner(great young player), 10th overall this year, and good other players for our first and maybe a Trent Hunter, you DON'T turn it down.

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Old
06-17-2009, 09:43 PM
  #33
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Originally Posted by Regin 43 View Post
Lol, now Streit and Gilbert are back out of the proposal. Change your opinion on if you'd do it?
It's a little vague. Which first round pick? Our 2010 one, or the 26th overall we have this year?

But I don't think I'd do it. A first overall kind of puts the value of the deal down a bit. If we make it the Boston second, we'd do it[read: I'd do it, don't want to speak for all Isles fans].

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Old
06-17-2009, 09:48 PM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Bugg View Post
How does this look?

1st '10
1st '09
Cogliano
Gagner

for

1st '09
Hunter
there'a 10% chance that 2009 Oiler first will be a star player.Let's say the Oilers draft in the same spot next draft.Again,we another 10% chance of landing something special.

No real interest in Cogliano,but let's say Cogliano and Hunter balance each other out.That leaves Gagner.I'd hope Snow wouldn't want him badly enough to give up 1st overall.


http://communities.canada.com/edmont...-player-a.aspx
With a pick in the top four this year, if you go by the history of the NHL draft, the Edmonton Oilers would have almost a 50 per cent chance of picking up a star player.

This is far superior to the odds they have now, which are about 10 per cent of drafting a star player with the team's 10th overall pick.

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Old
06-17-2009, 09:54 PM
  #35
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Originally Posted by CREW99AW View Post
there'a 10% chance that 2009 Oiler first will be a star player.Let's say the Oilers draft in the same spot next draft.Again,we another 10% chance of landing something special.

No real interest in Cogliano,but let's say Cogliano and Hunter balance each other out.That leaves Gagner.I'd hope Snow wouldn't want him badly enough to give up 1st overall.


http://communities.canada.com/edmont...-player-a.aspx
With a pick in the top four this year, if you go by the history of the NHL draft, the Edmonton Oilers would have almost a 50 per cent chance of picking up a star player.

This is far superior to the odds they have now, which are about 10 per cent of drafting a star player with the team's 10th overall pick.
Kovalchuk is a star, right? How many times have the Thrashers made the playoffs under his reigns? Correct...once, which lead to a first round sweep out of the post season.
Nash is a star, right? How many times have the Jackets made playoffs under his reigns? Correct...once, which lead to a first round exit out of the post season.
J'bo is a star, right? How many times have the...(and so on)

It is about having a good overall team rather than just one star. And not doing that proposed trade is somewhat inane in my honest opinion. We'd be getting 2 first rounders(one guaranteed top 10 in a good draft), a great young first line center(41 points as a 19 year old!), and a speedy potential top 6 forward for Hunter, and Tavares.

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Old
06-17-2009, 10:01 PM
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IslesFTW View Post
Patrik Stefan was supposed to be able to be a face of a franchise.
How about Yashin at the second spot?
What if the Avs didn't make the Lindros deal?
Kovalchuk is good, and is a franchise player, but how are the Thrashers?
etc. etc.

If you can get Gagner(great young player), 10th overall this year, and good other players for our first and maybe a Trent Hunter, you DON'T turn it down.
I disagree.I am eagerly looking forward to seeing either Tavares or Hedman develop over the next several yrs, in an Isle uniform.Seeing if the comparison to Lidstrom was accurate for Hedman or if the comparison to Hawerchuk was accurate when describing Tavares.

The isles will have had 24 picks over the last 2 drafts, when the 2009 draft is done.Unfortunately,the upside for most of those picks is solid,few are not potentially elite.That 1st overall is the isles chance to land an elite talent.



http://www.nhl.com/futures/firstoverall.html
2008 Steven Stamkos C TBL Sarnia Sting (OHL) 18.4
2007 Patrick Kane RW CHI London (OHL) 18.7
2006 Erik Johnson D STL US NAT'L U-18 18.3
2005 Sidney Crosby C PIT Rimouski (QMJHL) 17.11
2004 Alexander Ovechkin LW WAS Dynamo Moscow (Russia) 18.9
2003 Marc-Andre Fleury G PIT Cape Breton (QMJHL) 18.5
2002 Rick Nash LW CBJ London Knights (OHL) 18.0
2001 Ilya Kovalchuk LW ATL Spartak (Rus.) 18.2
2000 Rick DiPietro G NYI Boston University 18.9
1999 Patrik Stefan C ATL Long Beach Ice Dogs (IHL) 18.9
1998 Vincent Lecavalier C TB Rimouski Oceanic 18.2
1997 Joe Thornton C BOS Sault Ste. Marie Greyhounds 17.11
1996 Chris Phillips D OTT Prince Albert Raiders 18.3
1995 Bryan Berard D OTT Detroit Jr. Red Wings 18.4
1994 Ed Jovanovski D FLA Windsor Spitfires 18
1993 Alexandre Daigle C OTT Victoriaville Tigres 18.5
1992 Roman Hamrlik D TB ZPS Zlin (Czechoslovakia) 18.2
1991 Eric Lindros C QUE Oshawa Generals 18.3
1990 Owen Nolan RW QUE Cornwall Royals 18.4
1989 Mats Sundin RW QUE Nacka (Sweden) 18.4
1988 Mike Modano C MIN Prince Albert Raiders 18
1987 Pierre Turgeon C BUF Granby Bisons 17.10
1986 Joe Murphy C DET Michigan State 18.8
1985 Wendel Clark LW/D TOR Saskatoon Blades 18.7
1984 Mario Lemieux C PIT Laval Voisins 18.8
1983 Brian Lawton C MIN Mount St. Charles HS 18.11
1982 Gord Kluzak D BOS Nanaimo Islanders 18.3
1981 Dale Hawerchuk C WPG Cornwall Royals 18.2

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Old
06-17-2009, 10:05 PM
  #37
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Originally Posted by CREW99AW View Post
I disagree.I am eagerly looking forward to seeing either Tavares or Hedman develop over the next several yrs, in an Isle uniform.Seeing if the comparison to Lidstrom was accurate for Hedman or if the comparison to Hawerchuk was accurate when describing Tavares.

The isles will have had 24 picks over the last 2 drafts, when the 2009 draft is done.Unfortunately,the upside for most of those picks is solid,few are not potentially elite.That 1st overall is the isles chance to land an elite talent.



http://www.nhl.com/futures/firstoverall.html
2008 Steven Stamkos C TBL Sarnia Sting (OHL) 18.4
2007 Patrick Kane RW CHI London (OHL) 18.7
2006 Erik Johnson D STL US NAT'L U-18 18.3
2005 Sidney Crosby C PIT Rimouski (QMJHL) 17.11
2004 Alexander Ovechkin LW WAS Dynamo Moscow (Russia) 18.9
2003 Marc-Andre Fleury G PIT Cape Breton (QMJHL) 18.5
2002 Rick Nash LW CBJ London Knights (OHL) 18.0
2001 Ilya Kovalchuk LW ATL Spartak (Rus.) 18.2
2000 Rick DiPietro G NYI Boston University 18.9
1999 Patrik Stefan C ATL Long Beach Ice Dogs (IHL) 18.9
1998 Vincent Lecavalier C TB Rimouski Oceanic 18.2
1997 Joe Thornton C BOS Sault Ste. Marie Greyhounds 17.11
1996 Chris Phillips D OTT Prince Albert Raiders 18.3
1995 Bryan Berard D OTT Detroit Jr. Red Wings 18.4
1994 Ed Jovanovski D FLA Windsor Spitfires 18
1993 Alexandre Daigle C OTT Victoriaville Tigres 18.5
1992 Roman Hamrlik D TB ZPS Zlin (Czechoslovakia) 18.2
1991 Eric Lindros C QUE Oshawa Generals 18.3
1990 Owen Nolan RW QUE Cornwall Royals 18.4
1989 Mats Sundin RW QUE Nacka (Sweden) 18.4
1988 Mike Modano C MIN Prince Albert Raiders 18
1987 Pierre Turgeon C BUF Granby Bisons 17.10
1986 Joe Murphy C DET Michigan State 18.8
1985 Wendel Clark LW/D TOR Saskatoon Blades 18.7
1984 Mario Lemieux C PIT Laval Voisins 18.8
1983 Brian Lawton C MIN Mount St. Charles HS 18.11
1982 Gord Kluzak D BOS Nanaimo Islanders 18.3
1981 Dale Hawerchuk C WPG Cornwall Royals 18.2
Gagner, a top 6 pick who scored 41 points in the NHL as a 19 year old
Cogliano, a first rounder who is speedy, and will probably be a 50 point player soon
Two first rounders, including a top 10 one in this years draft. We can easily trade up to select a Jared Cowen. That would improve our offense, and defense.

Yeah we had 24 picks of "quantity" the past few years. However, what we'd be getting from Edmonton isn't only quantity, but it is also quality. It isn't like we'd be getting back the 10th overall with a second rounder for Tavares. Gagner and the other assets are good.

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Old
06-17-2009, 10:08 PM
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IslesFTW View Post
Kovalchuk is a star, right? How many times have the Thrashers made the playoffs under his reigns? Correct...once, which lead to a first round sweep out of the post season.
Nash is a star, right? How many times have the Jackets made playoffs under his reigns? Correct...once, which lead to a first round exit out of the post season.
J'bo is a star, right? How many times have the...(and so on)

It is about having a good overall team rather than just one star. And not doing that proposed trade is somewhat inane in my honest opinion. We'd be getting 2 first rounders(one guaranteed top 10 in a good draft), a great young first line center(41 points as a 19 year old!), and a speedy potential top 6 forward for Hunter, and Tavares.


Have the isles traded 21 yr old Okposo and 19 yr old Bailey without telling the fans?I thought these two youngsters,along with the 2009 1st overall were going to be the young,bluechip core for the isles.

I hadn't realized Tavares would be a 1 man roster

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Old
06-17-2009, 10:14 PM
  #39
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Originally Posted by CREW99AW View Post
Have the isles traded 21 yr old Okposo and 19 yr old Bailey without telling the fans?I thought these two youngsters,along with the 2009 1st overall were going to be the young,bluechip core for the isles.

I hadn't realized Tavares would be a 1 man roster
No. But we'd still have Okposo, and Bailey in either situation. Gagner won't be much worse than Tavares in my opinion, and then you'd be able to get three additional good assets in the meantime while only sparing Hunter. I'm sorry, but I'd rather have a team of Okposo, Bailey, Gagner, Cogliano, <2009 first rounder...probably Cowen>, and an additional 2010 first rounder than Okposo, Bailey, Tavares/Hedman.

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Old
06-17-2009, 10:16 PM
  #40
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If Edmonton traded for the first overall pick they would be picking Hedman.

Also, it would suck to give up Gagner to draft Tavares (theoretically) simply because they were BFFs growing up and I am sure they would love to be the top two centers on the same team.

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Old
06-17-2009, 10:17 PM
  #41
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I'm going to be honest, this deal isn't bad. Not bad at all. If I'm Garth Snow and I'm thinking about letting go of the pick, well here's a damn good deal to start with.

With that said, if Snow trades the pick there will be a 13,000 ****storm at Colisuem ready to kill. Too many Islander fans have settled into welcoming Tavares/Hedman come next Friday night.

Not a bad deal at all, but it's not worth negotiating since there's a very, very small chance Snow trades it away - if any chance at all.

A hell of a deal though.

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Old
06-17-2009, 10:19 PM
  #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IslesFTW View Post
Gagner, a top 6 pick who scored 41 points in the NHL as a 19 year old
Cogliano, a first rounder who is speedy, and will probably be a 50 point player soon
Two first rounders, including a top 10 one in this years draft. We can easily trade up to select a Jared Cowen. That would improve our offense, and defense.

Yeah we had 24 picks of "quantity" the past few years. However, what we'd be getting from Edmonton isn't only quantity, but it is also quality. It isn't like we'd be getting back the 10th overall with a second rounder for Tavares. Gagner and the other assets are good.
and 20 yr old Okposo scored 39 pts in 65 games.Nice for both of them.

Franz Neilsen,a nice two way forward will imo, probably also be a 50 pt player.Can the speedy Bergy hit 50?I think 40-45 is probably a better bet.What will Bailey hit once he adds some weight?

Isles have two 1st,three 2nd rounders and two 3rd rounders.If Snow wants to wheel and deal,great.Let him,right after drafting that potential franchise player

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Old
06-17-2009, 10:27 PM
  #43
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Originally Posted by IslesFTW View Post
No. But we'd still have Okposo, and Bailey in either situation. Gagner won't be much worse than Tavares in my opinion, and then you'd be able to get three additional good assets in the meantime while only sparing Hunter. I'm sorry, but I'd rather have a team of Okposo, Bailey, Gagner, Cogliano, <2009 first rounder...probably Cowen>, and an additional 2010 first rounder than Okposo, Bailey, Tavares/Hedman.
We'll just agree to disagree.

I'd rather have the potential franchise player,Tavares/Hedman,over anything offered up in this thread.I notice you ignore the Edmonton newspaper article,where the writer did reseach showing that the 10th overall selection, has a 10% chance of becoming a star.You post that the isles could trade up.Like they were able to trade up last draft,when Snow tried moving into the 2-4 slots for one of the offensive defensemen?

Isles came out of the 2008 draft with high marks from scouting services.I have faith that the nyi scouts will do another good job this upcoming draft.Really,no need to panic and play chicken little.

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Old
06-17-2009, 10:37 PM
  #44
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The Perfect deal would be

To Edmonton: 1st overall 09 + Mark Streit

To NY Islander: 1st 09 + Sam Gagner + Visnovsky + Shawn Horcoff

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Old
06-17-2009, 10:48 PM
  #45
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Originally Posted by fedro91 View Post
The Perfect deal would be

To Edmonton: 1st overall 09 + Mark Streit

To NY Islander: 1st 09 + Sam Gagner + Visnovsky + Shawn Horcoff
Isles would not pay Horcoff that $7m he's due.

I don't see a reason for exchanging Streit for Visnovsky.

Again,the 10th overall has a 10% chance of becoming a star.

It comes down to Gagner for 1st overall.

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Old
06-17-2009, 11:00 PM
  #46
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Originally Posted by CREW99AW View Post
I'd rather have the potential franchise player,Tavares/Hedman,over anything offered up in this thread.
I'll take the 2 first rounders, good young proven to be able to produce in the NHL first line player in Gagner, and good speedy top 6 player. You take the potential star first overall. I bet I win the future.

Quote:
I notice you ignore the Edmonton newspaper article,where the writer did reseach showing that the 10th overall selection, has a 10% chance of becoming a star.
And you seem to continue to be oblivious to the fact that a star /=/ winning. I've proven it with tons of examples such as Kovy, Nash, and J'bo.

Quote:
You post that the isles could trade up.Like they were able to trade up last draft,when Snow tried moving into the 2-4 slots for one of the offensive defensemen?
1) We'd have a ton more to trade than we did last year.
2) Moving up to the 4-7 range is much easier than moving into the the top 4.
3) They probably could have traded up last year, but Snow most likely decided against it.


Quote:
Isles came out of the 2008 draft with high marks from scouting services.I have faith that the nyi scouts will do another good job this upcoming draft.Really,no need to panic and play chicken little.
It isn't "panic[ing]" or "play[ing] chicken little." It's called managing your assets correctly, and not having anything that is untouchable in trades, which is what every smart GM's mentality should be. Any asset should be open to trade if it improves our team, for both the short and long term. And that is what this deal does.

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06-17-2009, 11:07 PM
  #47
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If we get #1 pick i would take Hedman

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Old
06-18-2009, 09:27 AM
  #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CREW99AW View Post
I disagree.I am eagerly looking forward to seeing either Tavares or Hedman develop over the next several yrs, in an Isle uniform.Seeing if the comparison to Lidstrom was accurate for Hedman or if the comparison to Hawerchuk was accurate when describing Tavares.
A lot of these proposals don't take into consideration that the Isles want to develop their own player. We need a face of the franchise that is not DP and is home grown. That is part of the reason I would not trade the pick.
Quote:
Originally Posted by IslesFTW View Post
Gagner, a top 6 pick who scored 41 points in the NHL as a 19 year old
Cogliano, a first rounder who is speedy, and will probably be a 50 point player soon
Two first rounders, including a top 10 one in this years draft. We can easily trade up to select a Jared Cowen. That would improve our offense, and defense.
Screw Cowan, I want OEL .
Quote:
Originally Posted by fedro91 View Post
The Perfect deal would be

To Edmonton: 1st overall 09 + Mark Streit

To NY Islander: 1st 09 + Sam Gagner + Visnovsky + Shawn Horcoff
...perfect for Edmonton. We already have one of the worst contracts in the league with DP, now you want us to take another terrible contract? So pretty much we give up the first overall pick and trade our best defenseman who probably was top 10, definately, top 15 in the league last year. For a great prospect, but doesn't have the ceiling Tavares or Hedman do and would not be a home grown player for us. We move down in the draft. And we take on two salary dumps including Horcoff who has one of the worst contracts in the league.

perfect for Edmonton...

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Old
06-18-2009, 10:53 AM
  #49
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not too bad

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Old
06-18-2009, 11:07 AM
  #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oilersfan11 View Post
To Edm
first round pick
John Tavares



To New york islanders
Sam Gagner
Andrew Cogliano
10th overall pick



How terrible is this proposal?
What is with all these Tavares to the Oil proposals? This is like the fourth in the last few days.

Isles aren't trading their pick, and Gagner should be an Oiler (and a high level Oiler at that) for some time to come. So, fantasy proposals are fun and all, but why not give some thought to realistic scenarios for a change?

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