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Old
06-18-2009, 10:34 AM
  #26
The Pucks
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Regin 43 View Post
Honestly, shut up. You're not even talking about the trade at all anymore. Your talking about our bad season and that's ******** and has nothing to do with the trade. One of the only bright spots in our season last year was drafting Karlsson, Wiercioch and Smith (and Petersson). Wiercioch has the potential to be #2 defenseman and could actually end up being better then Karlsson. So no, Ottawa doesn't trade a key piece of our future for a third line grinder who can skate fast. We don't need Shannon part 2
Ok Cranky, you done now?

I was addressing certin points that needed addressing, I really dont give a crap about Ottawa.

Oh and for the Wellwood quote, pretty serious mistype by me, I meant to say he WASNT a top 6 forward last season. Anybody can see that by looking at icetime.

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06-18-2009, 10:35 AM
  #27
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Originally Posted by The Pucks View Post
It appears that is now your Big TWO.

Oh and by the way, the Sedins outscored your top player by 10 points last year.

As for Wellwood, once you guys watch a few games you might see he wasnt a top 6 forward, but heck, after the season you had last year I can understand why you would avoid watching hockey for awhile.
Are you honestly trying to argue that the Sedins are better than Aflie-Spezza-Heatley?

And you're saying Sens fans just look at stats and don't watch hockey... Wow, you must have been dropped from pretty high, repeatedly, on purpose...

Ooh so now we only have 2 players better than anyone you have?
Hmm, well you don't have the Sedins under contract, so they don't count.
See, I can be dumb too

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06-18-2009, 10:38 AM
  #28
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Originally Posted by Jcrew View Post
Are you honestly trying to argue that the Sedins are better than Aflie-Spezza-Heatley?

And you're saying Sens fans just look at stats and don't watch hockey... Wow, you must have been dropped from pretty high, repeatedly, on purpose...

Ooh so now we only have 2 players better than anyone you have?
Hmm, well you don't have the Sedins under contract, so they don't count.
See, I can be dumb too

Ahh, you fell into the trap. I was using the exact logic that Sens fans were using on Raymond to prove a point. Player evaluation isnt based entirely on stats. The Sedins put up much better numbers, but your teams fans previous arguments the would mean the Sedins are much better players, note the sarcasm.

Why is it you didnt jump down their throats on a stats only based comparison?

By the way, the Sedins are still under contract.

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06-18-2009, 10:44 AM
  #29
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Originally Posted by trentmccleary View Post
What does that have to do with the Eastern Conference?
Didn't you just play Wellwood in the top-6 after he couldn't stick with the Leafs?

Nobody thinks he's a legit top-6 player, but he did well in the second half last year with Fisher and Foligno. So he's been given a 1 year, 600k deal to prove himself over a full season and fight off Regin and Zubov behind him.

The Canuck couldn't afford to keep him in their top-6 to start the season with the small Sedins, Demitra, Raymond and Wellwood. Add Shannon to that and you have the smallest and weakest top-6 in the NHL. On our team, Shannon was joining two good sized forecheckers in Fisher & Foligno, a top-6 that includes 6-4 Heatley and 6-3 Spezza... as well as Alfie, who I can only imagine could beat the crap out of every Vcr player I listed above.
The Canucks top 6 was Sedin, Sedin, Burrows, Kesler, Sundin, Demitra.

Atleast you got 3 right.

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06-18-2009, 10:44 AM
  #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Pucks View Post
Ahh, you fell into the trap. I was using the exact logic that Sens fans were using on Raymond to prove a point. Player evaluation isnt based entirely on stats. The Sedins put up much better numbers, but your teams fans previous arguments the would mean the Sedins are much better players, not the sarcasm.

Why is you didnt jump down their throats on a stats only based comparison?

By the way, the Sedins are still under contract.
23 points is very very very very different than a 10 point gap between 5 players, 3 of whom had their worst season in what, 4 years?

By the way, congrats on making sense on the bolded part; I see you put a ton of time and thought into your post.

Oh, that's right, enjoy them for the next 13 days, I'm sure they';; serve you well.

Fact is, I'd rather our top 6, I'd rather Wiercioch over Raymond, and I'd rather Shannon over Wellwood.

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06-18-2009, 10:46 AM
  #31
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Originally Posted by The Pucks View Post
The Canucks top 6 was Sedin, Sedin, Burrows, Kesler, Sundin, Demitra.

Atleast you got 3 right.
Sundin wasn't signed till the end of the season and Kesler started the season on the third line but was playing well so he got moved to the second line. Burrows was also a surprise.

hmm seems I know more about the Canucks then even you do.

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06-18-2009, 10:47 AM
  #32
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Originally Posted by CrosbyCrosby View Post
lol sure. That's why you guys actually think Shannon is a legit top six player when he couldn't even crack the canucks lineup.
Or how Andrew Ebbet couldn't even get a contract extension with the Binghamton Senators and now he's a second line centre for Anaheim.

Or how Nycholat couldn't get a sniff in Ottawa and was playing for you guys last year.

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06-18-2009, 10:48 AM
  #33
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What a pathetic thread.

Ryan Shannon is a great player, with a great attitude. He forechecks hard, he plays hard, he's got speed to burn and he was scoring at a 16 goal, 45 point pace under Cory Clouston.

And we got him for Lawrence Nycholat?

So what if he's small? So what if Canuck fans think he sucks? He was a steal for the Sens - and we all love him here.

Useless thread.

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Old
06-18-2009, 10:48 AM
  #34
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Originally Posted by Golden Senator View Post
He did pretty good for us in Ottawa after he got called up. Who did we give for him again? Oh yeah, Nycholat!


And what you have there is a perfect example of a GM keeping his word. Gillis told Shannon that if he didnt crack the NHL lineup he would trade him to a team that may be able to use him. It wasnt about getting a player back, it was about giving a guy a chance when he wasnt making your team.

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06-18-2009, 10:49 AM
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Regin 43 View Post
Sundin wasn't signed till the end of the season and Kesler started the season on the third line but was playing well so he got moved to the second line. Burrows was also a surprise.

hmm seems I know more about the Canucks then even you do.
Oh, we also forgot part of our top 6...

We didn't include Hossa, Havlat, or Demitria. They all played for us before.

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Old
06-18-2009, 10:52 AM
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Regin 43 View Post
Sundin wasn't signed till the end of the season and Kesler started the season on the third line but was playing well so he got moved to the second line. Burrows was also a surprise.

hmm seems I know more about the Canucks then even you do.

Hmmm, Sundin played 41 games after injuries and such, so getting signed at the end of the season is kinda hard to prove.

Yup Kesler and Burrows got moved onto the top lines, or did they? Most Vancouver fans will tell you the 1st half of the season the Kesler - Burrows combination was the best line on the team.

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Old
06-18-2009, 10:53 AM
  #37
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Originally Posted by Jcrew View Post
Oh, we also forgot part of our top 6...

We didn't include Hossa, Havlat, or Demitria. They all played for us before.

??? Wow,

HF says attack the post, not the poster, but your making that really hard.

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Old
06-18-2009, 10:55 AM
  #38
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Originally Posted by The Pucks View Post
??? Wow,

HF says attack the post, not the poster, but your making that really hard.
You can't say that the Sedins are a part of your top 6 until they actually sign with you guys is the point that he was trying to make I believe.

And that is a very valid point. So you need to stop with these retarded posts that aren't proving any points.

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Old
06-18-2009, 10:55 AM
  #39
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Originally Posted by The King of Town View Post
Or how Nycholat couldn't get a sniff in Ottawa and was playing for you guys last year.
meh, 14 games isn't much off from "not getting a sniff".

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06-18-2009, 10:59 AM
  #40
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Originally Posted by The Pucks View Post
??? Wow,

HF says attack the post, not the poster, but your making that really hard.
Ditto, compadre.

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Old
06-18-2009, 10:59 AM
  #41
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Originally Posted by The King of Town View Post

Or how Nycholat couldn't get a sniff in Ottawa and was playing for you guys last year.

Hmm, not a good example, he got into a few games as the 8th dman because of injuries.

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06-18-2009, 11:02 AM
  #42
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Originally Posted by Regin 43 View Post
You can't say that the Sedins are a part of your top 6 until they actually sign with you guys is the point that he was trying to make I believe.

And that is a very valid point. So you need to stop with these retarded posts that aren't proving any points.
Really, you might want to take a gander at your posts.

As of right now the Sedins are still a big part of Vancouvers top 6 and have been for the past 7 years. Rumors are strong that they are pretty much resigned and have little to no interest of going to another team.

Till July 1st hits and they are unsigned, they are part of Vancouvers top 6.

Ironic, you include Heatley yet he has pretty much said he will never play for you again.

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06-18-2009, 11:06 AM
  #43
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Originally Posted by The Pucks View Post
Really, you might want to take a gander at your posts.

As of right now the Sedins are still a big part of Vancouvers top 6 and have been for the past 7 years. Rumors are strong that they are pretty much resigned and have little to no interest of going to another team.

Till July 1st hits and they are unsigned, they are part of Vancouvers top 6.

Ironic, you include Heatley yet he has pretty much said he will never play for you again.
Ah yes, another perfect example of a poster who is too lazy to look through all the posts. Where did I say Heatley is in our top 6? He is my least favorite senator and has been since we traded for him. I think he's over rated actually. I have not made a list of the sens top 6 though. I believe Clouston will have it look something like this

Foligno Spezza Alfie
Free agent/trade Fisher Free agent/Shannon

vs. Sedin Sedin Burrows
Demitra Kesler Free agent.

I'd much rather have ours next year.

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06-18-2009, 11:08 AM
  #44
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Guys, the Canucks have just come off a Stanley Cup winning season so it's easy to see why they'd shun Ryan Shannon, who couldn't make their team while a throw away in Kyle Wellwood was a huge mistake on Toronto's part. Wellwood won the conn smythe, yeah? I stopped watching hockey, eh.

Seems as though some Canucks scouts also frequent this board as well. Mason Raymond shows those intangibles that make him one of the best 3rd liners in hockey today and clearly Ottawa would be lucky to have his point production at the expense of a 3rd round pick and one of their top prospects who only has proven that he can score at an NCAA level. Someone get Murray on the horn a-SAP!

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Old
06-18-2009, 11:10 AM
  #45
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Originally Posted by The Pucks View Post
Really, you might want to take a gander at your posts.

As of right now the Sedins are still a big part of Vancouvers top 6 and have been for the past 7 years. Rumors are strong that they are pretty much resigned and have little to no interest of going to another team.

Till July 1st hits and they are unsigned, they are part of Vancouvers top 6.

Ironic, you include Heatley yet he has pretty much said he will never play for you again.

I'd like to see the article where he's quoted as saying that.

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Old
06-18-2009, 11:12 AM
  #46
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Originally Posted by Hiphopopotamus View Post
Seems as though some Canucks scouts also frequent this board as well. Mason Raymond shows those intangibles that make him one of the best 3rd liners in hockey today and clearly Ottawa would be lucky to have his point production at the expense of a 3rd round pick and one of their top prospects who only has proven that he can score at an NCAA level. Someone get Murray on the horn a-SAP!
and that prospect has proven exactly what? You're right, the same.

That said, back to the a serious discussion; Sens seem to be rebuilding their blueline so I doubt they'd trade away any defenseman prospects - least of all for a winger.

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Old
06-18-2009, 11:14 AM
  #47
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Raymond
http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/p....php?pid=87914

Wiercioch
http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/p...php?pid=102405

Wiercioch had more points as a rookie in the NCAA then Raymond had and Wiercioch is a defenseman. His ppg in his rookie season also wasn't that much worse then Raymond's second year.

Now I realize points isn't everything but common that stat is hard to ignore.

Also PMD's are much more valuable then third line grinders.

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06-18-2009, 11:17 AM
  #48
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lol nice thread.

Anyway, no. Wiercioch currently has more value than Raymond, so why add a pick from Ottawa? I would venture to guess if you perhaps got Murray completely plastered, he might consider it.

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Old
06-18-2009, 11:22 AM
  #49
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Originally Posted by Regin 43 View Post
Now I realize points isn't everything but common that stat is hard to ignore.
Particularly when you look at the offense from each of the respective teams (ie., top point getter on Raymond's team got 30 points - he'd be 5th in scoring on Wiercioch's team).

Quote:
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Also PMD's are much more valuable then third line grinders.
I'd agree with that (though I'd wouldn't consider Raymond a "grinder" anymore than I would Shannon).

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Old
06-18-2009, 11:25 AM
  #50
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Originally Posted by Barney Gumble View Post
Particularly when you look at the offense from each of the respective teams (ie., top point getter on Raymond's team got 30 points - he'd be 5th in scoring on Wiercioch's team).

I'd agree with that (though I'd wouldn't consider Raymond a "grinder" anymore than I would Shannon).
Maybe it's because they didn't have a solid puck mover like Wiercioch

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