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Sedins reportedly want 63M-12 year deal... similar to Zetterberg's deal

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Old
06-18-2009, 10:10 AM
  #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beukeboom Fan View Post
Yeah - DET is the king of the "extra" years to lower the cap hit. I think there is a difference thought when they have been a model professional franchise for the past 15 years, and they are locking up key players to post-season success.
I asked this question on the Canucks board as well, but will ask here too - why is Detroit getting all the recognition for these types of contracts, when they weren't even the first ones to do it in the NHL?

This basically all started with Zetterberg's and Franzen's deal... the deals they made prior that (Datsyuk for example) didn't have this same extended length for lower cap hit idea.

But even before Detroit, these deals were signed by other players... Briere and Richards in Philly have low salaries at the end of their deals to lower the overall cap hit... Lecavalier makes just $1.5mill and $1mill in the last 2 yrs of his deal to lower his cap hit... Jersey signed Elias to a huge discount (at the time) with a $6mill cap hit as well... DiPietro was given a 15yr deal to keep his cap hit down to $4.5mill through the life of that deal.

Detroit isn't the first team to come up with these extended contracts, but seem to be getting all the recognition for it? Guess it's the benefits of being recognized as the best franchise in the league, but this is not a Detroit innovation - there have been similar contracts signed by other teams that have the same type of logic behind it, yet, it's not those teams getting credit for being innovative, it's Detroit's strategy somehow that other teams are following??

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Old
06-18-2009, 10:12 AM
  #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aerolanche View Post
Wait, they think they are each worth the same as Zetterberg?
That's what had me laughing out loud. They might be worth as much as Zetterberg's skate laces...

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Old
06-18-2009, 10:12 AM
  #28
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that's quite a bit of money for each... i can see Burke making a move like this.

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Old
06-18-2009, 10:18 AM
  #29
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The cap hit is awesome for ppg players locked up for their entire careers. Gillis has to consider it.

Sure, they haven't reached Zett's level, but they're also not making as much.

But i wonder what Gillis feels about deals like these? I think if Holland is okay with 'em, then Gillis is probably okay with 'em too. Unless he feels the Sedins aren't worth locking up forever.


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Originally Posted by airforceones25 View Post
that's quite a bit of money for each... i can see Burke making a move like this.
If only he could do it before the Canucks do...

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Originally Posted by nuckfan in TO View Post
They've already said numerous times now that they want to finish their playing career with MoDo... that they don't want to play in the NHL till their late 30s, and would like to walk away with still time left to finish their playing careers in Sweden.
Honestly, i don't imagine ANY Swede player wanting to 'finish their career' in MoDo. Well, Forsberg did... All but 3 games. Have you seen the hockey? It's poorly-reffed wrestling on ice. Anyways...

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Old
06-18-2009, 10:18 AM
  #30
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Make it happen DW.

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Old
06-18-2009, 10:19 AM
  #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aerolanche View Post
Wait, they think they are each worth the same as Zetterberg?
No, they think they're worth the same as Horcoff.

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Old
06-18-2009, 10:23 AM
  #32
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Originally Posted by TOMapleLaughs View Post

Honestly, i don't imagine ANY Swede player wanting to 'finish their career' in MoDo. Well, Forsberg did... All but 3 games. Have you seen the hockey? It's poorly-reffed wrestling on ice. Anyways...
I really don't think finishing their careers with MoDo is about the hockey, it's about the lifestyle... They've expressed this many times in the past... I think they would like to head home in their final years to finish off their playing career and then retire in Ornskoldsvik.

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Old
06-18-2009, 10:24 AM
  #33
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Originally Posted by Rattrick View Post
That's what had me laughing out loud. They might be worth as much as Zetterberg's skate laces...
FFS. How does Zetterberg factor into any of this?!?! Because they're all Swedish? There are literally dozens of players signed to bigger cap hits than Z, who produce far less than the Sedins.

2 ppg players are worth as much as Zetterberg's skate laces? The ignorance on this site never ceases to astound.

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Old
06-18-2009, 10:25 AM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nuckfan in TO View Post
I asked this question on the Canucks board as well, but will ask here too - why is Detroit getting all the recognition for these types of contracts, when they weren't even the first ones to do it in the NHL?

This basically all started with Zetterberg's and Franzen's deal... the deals they made prior that (Datsyuk for example) didn't have this same extended length for lower cap hit idea.

But even before Detroit, these deals were signed by other players... Briere and Richards in Philly have low salaries at the end of their deals to lower the overall cap hit... Lecavalier makes just $1.5mill and $1mill in the last 2 yrs of his deal to lower his cap hit... Jersey signed Elias to a huge discount (at the time) with a $6mill cap hit as well... DiPietro was given a 15yr deal to keep his cap hit down to $4.5mill through the life of that deal.

Detroit isn't the first team to come up with these extended contracts, but seem to be getting all the recognition for it? Guess it's the benefits of being recognized as the best franchise in the league, but this is not a Detroit innovation - there have been similar contracts signed by other teams that have the same type of logic behind it, yet, it's not those teams getting credit for being innovative, it's Detroit's strategy somehow that other teams are following??
It's because Detroit has been a lot more successful lately.

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06-18-2009, 10:27 AM
  #35
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Originally Posted by Battle Axe View Post
FFS. How does Zetterberg factor into any of this?!?! Because they're all Swedish? There are literally dozens of players signed to bigger cap hits than Z, who produce far less than the Sedins.

2 ppg players are worth as much as Zetterberg's skate laces? The ignorance on this site never ceases to astound.
it's just TSN bringing up Zetterberg because of his 12 yr deal.

That's the only comparison here... I doubt that Barry even brought up his name in discussions - why would you bring up Zetterberg, when there are so many other players that are making more than Zetterberg, but producing less than the Sedins?

This is just the whole Detroit hype-machine getting credit for giving out long deals to lower overall cap hit on players, and as I argued above, it's not even Detroit's innovation here - it's been done by other teams, that somehow Detroit is getting the credit for now.

I'd be willing to bet though that bringing up Zetterberg at all in this is all TSN's doing, without his name mentioned at all in negotiations... of course anything mentioned in the media has a bunch of fans automatically believing it, as always.

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Old
06-18-2009, 10:28 AM
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Battle Axe View Post
FFS. How does Zetterberg factor into any of this?!?! Because they're all Swedish? There are literally dozens of players signed to bigger cap hits than Z, who produce far less than the Sedins.

2 ppg players are worth as much as Zetterberg's skate laces? The ignorance on this site never ceases to astound.
I submit to you, exhibit A.

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Old
06-18-2009, 10:31 AM
  #37
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Originally Posted by TOMapleLaughs View Post
It's because Detroit has been a lot more successful lately.
why? they've signed 2 guys to such deals... how's that being a lot more successful lately? The Elias deal by Jersey was done a few years ago, and that may be the first deal done under the salary cap to lower a player's overall cap hit... and while Detroit has gotten 2 such contracts, Philly has signed 3 players with the same type of strategy (Richards, Briere, Timonen) before Detroit signed either of those contracts... prior to those deals for Zetterberg and Franzen, all their other deals were the same as any other team's.

again, this isn't a new concept by Detroit... it's following the type of deals other teams have done.

Detroit gets credit because they are Detroit... nothing else!

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Old
06-18-2009, 10:34 AM
  #38
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These long term deals will last long past the new CBA and the way the cap hit is treated on these long term deals may change.

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Old
06-18-2009, 10:41 AM
  #39
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If the new CBA changes the way contracts effect cap hit, then it would only apply to deals signed after the new CBA, not to already existing deals. No one would really want that.

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06-18-2009, 10:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nuckfan in TO View Post
why? they've signed 2 guys to such deals... how's that being a lot more successful lately? The Elias deal by Jersey was done a few years ago, and that may be the first deal done under the salary cap to lower a player's overall cap hit... and while Detroit has gotten 2 such contracts, Philly has signed 3 players with the same type of strategy (Richards, Briere, Timonen) before Detroit signed either of those contracts... prior to those deals for Zetterberg and Franzen, all their other deals were the same as any other team's.

again, this isn't a new concept by Detroit... it's following the type of deals other teams have done.

Detroit gets credit because they are Detroit... nothing else!
Don't forget Rick Nash in Columbus.

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Old
06-18-2009, 10:42 AM
  #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NOTENOUGHBREWER View Post
These long term deals will last long past the new CBA and the way the cap hit is treated on these long term deals may change.
I can't see how the $5.25m cap hit for each of these guys can be considered anything but a good deal, but the uncertainity attached to the length of the contract and what you're saying about the next CBA is definitely cause for concern.

That said I think this is a good gamble for the Canucks if the Sedins re-sign for this amount.

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Old
06-18-2009, 10:44 AM
  #42
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Originally Posted by Rattrick View Post
Don't forget Rick Nash in Columbus.
The Nash contract is the exact opposite of the Zetterberg/Franzen and proposed Sedin deals.

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Old
06-18-2009, 10:46 AM
  #43
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OMGZ these b getin zetts monies!11111


5.25 a year for each isn't too bad, it's the freakin' 12 year thing that's whacked.

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Old
06-18-2009, 10:47 AM
  #44
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I'd do it in a second...

5.25M cap hit for those two... that's how you allow yourself to build a strong and consistent contender.

the 12 years seems like a lot, but let's be real here, does anyone really think there is any way in hell that the sedins stay in north america when they are 37-38-39-40 UNLESS they are still playing at a high level?

they, just like the other euro's signing these long front loaded deals, will definitely head back home at the end of their deals, BEFORE they become 3rd line fodder.

bank on it.

think about it, part of the logic in them asking for this kind of deal is so that their teams can still surround them with elite talent, giving them a chance to win every year.

these guys are competitive as heck and won't be kicking around the NHL for 1-2 million/year in 2018, 2019, 2020 just to be the swedish versions of Chelios.

take a look at naslund... he left 3M on the table at 35 years old, coming off of a relatively productive season, because he didn't want to play if he couldn't maintain his level.

the 12 years seem scary, but when you break it down, having 2 ppg players in their prime at 10.5M for the next 5-7 years, is WELL worth the risk that they do decide to stick around once their skill level drops, if it does (lthe habs were very pleased with paying a 38 year old Robert Lang 4 million for a ~50-60pts season... in 10 years from now these two guys would earn 1.25M more for potentially similar production, IF they haven't headed home yet.

is there really any doubt that salaries will surpass todays mark a decade from now?

i'm telling ya, that is a bargain deal for them...

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Old
06-18-2009, 10:49 AM
  #45
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I really hope the NHL closes this loophole the next chance they get. Having the blanket clause that allows them to reject any contract that is trying to circumvent the CBA is too vague and subjective.

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06-18-2009, 10:49 AM
  #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NOTENOUGHBREWER View Post
These long term deals will last long past the new CBA and the way the cap hit is treated on these long term deals may change.
if the CBA changes, the rules will apply to new contracts, not contracts negotiated under older rules. Otherwise, the club - or the player - would have grounds to dismiss the contract entirely as the rules that they were negotiated under have changed.

We saw the same thing when this new CBA first came into affect, it needed to be brought in with consideration of deals done under a previous CBA - such as the Washington/New York trade with Jagr and part of his contract being paid by Washington, which was not allowed in the new CBA... they also had provisions for one-time buyouts without cap implications, as the league adjusted to a new CBA.

Basically it's not realistic to assume that the deals you sign now, under the current rules provided, should be penalized because the league then changes the rules... I can't imagine that being allowed in any professional business.

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Old
06-18-2009, 10:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mnwildfan79 View Post
I really hope the NHL closes this loophole the next chance they get. Having the blanket clause that allows them to reject any contract that is trying to circumvent the CBA is too vague and subjective.
Agreed 100%. This is one of the biggest flaws with the CBA.

That said, a deal like this for the Sedin's is a bargain any way you look at it.

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Old
06-18-2009, 10:52 AM
  #48
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I just posted on a different thread how much I want to see the Isles build with their own, home grown talent. I meant it. I want to see the Isles take Tavares with the first pick, like about 80% of the Isles fans.

That said—the Isles have significant cap space, and could afford a deal like this. The question really is, would the twins be...

1) Willing to go to a team with a dreadful arena? (though plans for a new one are moving ahead finally)

2) Willing to move to the Eastern conference?

3) Willing to join a rebuilding team?

On the third point—how big a jump does the rebuilding process take by adding the twins and Tavares or Duchene? Or the twins and Hedman?

Imaging the Twins and Okposo on line #1, Tavares moved to the wing, and centered by Bailey with Bergenheim on the other wing. Suddenly the Isles have a very strong one-two punch. If they are really willing to spend and land Komisarek—this is suddenly a pretty good team—one capable of making the playoffs at least on paper or maybe just missing this season, but with the maturing of Okposo, Bergenheim, Bailey and Tavares, plus Striet, Komisarek and the play of the Twins? Thats a pretty good team!!

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Old
06-18-2009, 10:52 AM
  #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nuckfan in TO View Post
it's just TSN bringing up Zetterberg because of his 12 yr deal.

That's the only comparison here... I doubt that Barry even brought up his name in discussions - why would you bring up Zetterberg, when there are so many other players that are making more than Zetterberg, but producing less than the Sedins?

This is just the whole Detroit hype-machine getting credit for giving out long deals to lower overall cap hit on players, and as I argued above, it's not even Detroit's innovation here - it's been done by other teams, that somehow Detroit is getting the credit for now.

I'd be willing to bet though that bringing up Zetterberg at all in this is all TSN's doing, without his name mentioned at all in negotiations... of course anything mentioned in the media has a bunch of fans automatically believing it, as always.
I know TSN brought it up. That doesn't mean that everyone here has to adopt it as a guideline to discussion.

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Old
06-18-2009, 10:56 AM
  #50
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I'm not sure why they'd use Zetterburg as the measuring stick, it just incites people. The Sedins obviously aren't as successful as Zetterburg so they shouldn't be entitled to the same cash. If I were the Sedins I would be using Mike Richards or if they were just out for top dollar they could point to plenty of players who make more than they will wind up making and are far inferior. Unless the Sedins are directly quoted as using Zetterburg as a measuring stick I think it was the media who threw his name in there in order to provoke a reaction to the article.

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