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LA-COL or LA-PIT, LA needs a good center

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Old
06-18-2009, 08:23 PM
  #76
Morozov
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Not even anywhere remotely near worthwhile for the Pens. Staal isn't going to be traded for an impending UFA, I don't give a **** who that impending UFA is. I wouldn't deal Staal for an impending UFA Kovalchuk let alone an impending Frolov. I love Frolov, I would love to see him in a Pens jersey, but Staal has too much value to the Pens to be dealt for potentially only one season of any player.

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06-18-2009, 08:53 PM
  #77
HookKing
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Originally Posted by Morozov View Post
Not even anywhere remotely near worthwhile for the Pens. Staal isn't going to be traded for an impending UFA, I don't give a **** who that impending UFA is. I wouldn't deal Staal for an impending UFA Kovalchuk let alone an impending Frolov. I love Frolov, I would love to see him in a Pens jersey, but Staal has too much value to the Pens to be dealt for potentially only one season of any player.
That's pre-cap logic. Pens do this in a second -- here's why:

The window to have your team at a peak level is short because of cap issues (with 1 exception) -- Pens are obviously there now. Staal clearly is terrific in his role and may have upiside not yet seen on the offensive side but it is not a no-brainer that will happen (and unlikely to crystallize with Malkin/Crosby still there). Frolov is a 35 goal scorer on a horrible team that would add a whole new dimension to the Pens offense by opening up the ice even more for Malkin/Crosby. 40 goals isn't that much of a stretch for him. Shut down 3rd liners are out there and affordable -- Staal just isn't that vital in a win now world. Pens could have easily lost the Detroit series...they still need to improve. Yes you will likely lose Frolov in a year for nothing but another sip from the cup would be sweet...

However, I'm not sure I do this on the Kings. Kings need more players at LW and they already have multiple 3rd line centers.

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06-18-2009, 09:13 PM
  #78
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Originally Posted by Jwm1986 View Post
I can see Staal having more value than Frolov, since Frolov only has 1 year left on his deal.

However, if Frolov was locked up for the next 4 years at 4 -4.5 million a year.. hes worth much more then Staal at this point..Dont get me wrong, Staal has a really nice game that will only get better, but his offensive skill-set doesn't compare to Frolovs.

For the person who said Frolov would get comparable points if he was on the 3rd line, well your completely wrong...He played on the 3rd line at certain points throughout last season..

During a year in which the entire Kings team suffered offensively, Frolov still managed to put up 32 goals. he is incredibly skilled and might be the best player in the entire league protecting the puck...I do agree that his defensive game is not as good as Staals, but its ridiculous to say they are even close when comparing offensive skills.

that being said, id love to have Staal on my team, as i think he brings certain intangibles beyond point production that are very important to a team..
Possibly. I think both players are great and you can make an argument for eiter. Frolov is 27 and in the prime of his career, he had BETTER be scoring more than Staal,who is only 20, right now. Personally, I'd rather have Staal but again, I won't argue with anyone who would choose Frolov, I htink the 2 ar pretty close.

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06-18-2009, 09:13 PM
  #79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HookKing View Post
That's pre-cap logic. Pens do this in a second -- here's why:

The window to have your team at a peak level is short because of cap issues (with 1 exception) -- Pens are obviously there now. Staal clearly is terrific in his role and may have upiside not yet seen on the offensive side but it is not a no-brainer that will happen (and unlikely to crystallize with Malkin/Crosby still there). Frolov is a 35 goal scorer on a horrible team that would add a whole new dimension to the Pens offense by opening up the ice even more for Malkin/Crosby. 40 goals isn't that much of a stretch for him. Shut down 3rd liners are out there and affordable -- Staal just isn't that vital in a win now world. Pens could have easily lost the Detroit series...they still need to improve. Yes you will likely lose Frolov in a year for nothing but another sip from the cup would be sweet...

However, I'm not sure I do this on the Kings. Kings need more players at LW and they already have multiple 3rd line centers.
Rubbish that it is pre cap logic, pre cap logic would be hey lets trade our 20 year old center for an impending UFA, we will just re sign that impending UFA anyway. Cap era and especially the new younger UFA ages makes such a young player who is contributing so much just that more valuable. You insinuate Frolov would put us over the top for another cup lol, we just got one with Staal, why would we sacrifice a guy who played a key role in that cup, who we have locked up for years to come for one season of Frolov? why do Malkin/Crosby need the ice more open for them? were they struggling putting up points or something? and yes we could have easily lost the series against Detroit, but we didn't, thanks in large part to one Jordan Staal. Swap Frolov for Staal and we probably would have lost the series.

The Pens aren't in a "win now world", we are in a win over the next 7-8 years world while Sid and Malkin are locked up, and then we are in, hopefully, a win for the rest of their careers world. You are crazy to think we are going to trade our 20 year old 20 minute a night defensive stud who has shown an ability to make even the fantastic Detroit defense his ***** if he deems necessary, because of some supposed "win now" mentality, have you seen the age of our players? or our core? they aren't disappearing any time soon. We want a long term competitive franchise and the core we have been blessed with can allow that if handled correctly, we want to build that Red Wings long term competitive team not the couple of shots and then your gone, and yes this can be done in the cap world.

"Pens do this in a second", you clearly have no idea about Shero or the Penguins.

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06-18-2009, 10:52 PM
  #80
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I think you gotta look at it like this:
If the Pens were 100% made up in their minds to trade Staal could they get back a better deal than Frolov? I think the answer is undoubtedly yes. A big centre who plays well defensively and has shown good offensive upside is worth alot. How much do Kesler, Fisher, Mikko Koivu make? Probably all would get ~4M if they were UFA's so I hardly think Staal is the cap albatross people make him out to be.

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06-18-2009, 11:56 PM
  #81
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Originally Posted by NOTENOUGHBREWER View Post
I think you gotta look at it like this:
If the Pens were 100% made up in their minds to trade Staal could they get back a better deal than Frolov? I think the answer is undoubtedly yes. A big centre who plays well defensively and has shown good offensive upside is worth alot. How much do Kesler, Fisher, Mikko Koivu make? Probably all would get ~4M if they were UFA's so I hardly think Staal is the cap albatross people make him out to be.
Its not that Staal is a "cap albatross" or anything. I think any other team in the league would be happy to give Staal four million a year. But here's where it comes into play. The Pens have cap issues becuase they already have 18 million tied up at the center position in two people. Can you really afford to pay your third line center that much money? All the guys you listed are second liners and up. Also, the Pens may need to reallocate some of that money into the wing spot, so thats why the trades get offered. They're goign to have to get someone big in return, like a Jack Johnson to trade him I think. I don't think Frolov cuts it as a centerpiece for a deal for him. Frolov is very talented but I think every team in the NHL would rather have Staal for four years at 4M than Frolov for a year at a bit lower than 3M and then 4 more years at a hgiher price.

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Old
06-19-2009, 12:08 AM
  #82
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People are seriously under rating staal when they dismiss him as a third line centre.

He's 20 years old and he's playing behind literally 2 of the 3 best centers in the world, what do you expect? There's exactly one center I would play over Crosby or Malkin and he's recovering from a foot injury right now. Look at his linemates. Most of the PP time he gets is the garbage time after Crosby/Malkin/Gonchar are bored of staying out there for 2 minutes straight.

He was forced into a defensive role simply because his team needed him to do that more than they needed him to get an extra ~10 goals playing on Malkin's wing. I have zero doubt about his ability to shift his focus into a far more offensive role if/when he's moved to a team that needs him to do that.

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Old
06-19-2009, 12:23 AM
  #83
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Rubbish ....
Indeed.

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Old
06-19-2009, 01:04 AM
  #84
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Avs do this.

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Old
06-19-2009, 01:14 AM
  #85
Morozov
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Originally Posted by HookKing View Post
Indeed.
So then why post it?

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