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Old
06-20-2009, 06:52 PM
  #1
Shark Staal
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Det-nyr

To NYR: Hudler, #29
To DET: #19, NYR 6th

Is this fair value?


Last edited by Shark Staal: 06-20-2009 at 07:54 PM.
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Old
06-20-2009, 06:55 PM
  #2
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Seems like an underpayment for Hudler... Detroit ony moves up 11 spots, and I don't care how deep the draft is, the 6th is near worthless.

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06-20-2009, 06:58 PM
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SLAPSHOT723
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Detroit has the 29th overall.

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Old
06-20-2009, 07:02 PM
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Canuckle
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You actually mean 29th pick from Detroit not 30th cause stanly cup champs get 30th.

6th you mean 6th round?

I don't know what to say to this deal, looks terrible at first glance already.

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Old
06-20-2009, 07:02 PM
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Originally Posted by slapshot723 View Post
Detroit has the 29th overall.

guess he used to 30th

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Old
06-20-2009, 07:07 PM
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Originally Posted by Heaters not lazt View Post
Seems like an underpayment for Hudler... Detroit ony moves up 11 spots, and I don't care how deep the draft is, the 6th is near worthless.
I don't think the wings want a player back with their salary problems. The 19th pick imo is excellent value for Hudler.

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Old
06-20-2009, 07:21 PM
  #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GongShowHockeyNYR View Post
To NYR: Hudler, #30
To DET: #19, NYR 6th

Is this fair value?
If the 6th was changed to a 4th it would probably be better off. The problem is that the depth in this draft makes for picks past 15 to be a crapshoot. The Wings have said they are interested in a defenseman and I would assume someone of Runblad, Erixson or De Haan may be there if any could fall that far (might be wishful thinking). I guess moving up to 19th would guarantee one of them would be around.

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Old
06-20-2009, 07:41 PM
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Originally Posted by DetroitWhat View Post
If the 6th was changed to a 4th it would probably be better off. The problem is that the depth in this draft makes for picks past 15 to be a crapshoot. The Wings have said they are interested in a defenseman and I would assume someone of Runblad, Erixson or De Haan may be there if any could fall that far (might be wishful thinking). I guess moving up to 19th would guarantee one of them would be around.
i dont think we have a 4th. but i think we have 2 5ths.

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Old
06-20-2009, 07:42 PM
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why would detroit want to get rid of hudler though?

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Old
06-20-2009, 07:45 PM
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Originally Posted by ecemleafs View Post
why would detroit want to get rid of hudler though?
to resign hossa

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Old
06-20-2009, 07:46 PM
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Originally Posted by ecemleafs View Post
why would detroit want to get rid of hudler though?
They might want to re-sign Hossa. If they do they won't have the cap room for Hudler and Samuelsson.

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Old
06-20-2009, 07:47 PM
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Originally Posted by Golden Foppa View Post
They might want to re-sign Hossa. If they do they won't have the cap room for Hudler and Samuelsson.
wouldnt they move samuelsson then? hudler is more talented and like 7 years younger.

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Old
06-20-2009, 07:56 PM
  #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ecemleafs View Post
wouldnt they move samuelsson then? hudler is more talented and like 7 years younger.
Samuelsson is a UFA, and has 0 value. Hudler is an RFA. If they could get something for him(ie Move up 10 spots), then they could re-sign Hossa, and get something back. If you look at past deals involving moving up, I think this is perfectly reasonable.

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Old
06-20-2009, 07:58 PM
  #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Canuckle View Post
You actually mean 29th pick from Detroit not 30th cause stanly cup champs get 30th.

6th you mean 6th round?

I don't know what to say to this deal, looks terrible at first glance already.
No I mean 6th overall pick.

And do you want to give a reason why it looks "terrible", I wasn't even the one who came up with the proposal it was a Wings fan who did.

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Old
06-20-2009, 08:54 PM
  #15
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The 6th is worthless in terms of trade value, so Detroit trades Hudler and their first to move up 10 spots? The only way Detroit does this is if its the only available deal out there, Hossa has the pen in hand, ready to sign, AND Detroit has reason to move up 10 spots.


People out there forget that its not about spots in the draft so much as it is about who those teams want to pick. If it just so happens that, for example, the Wings rate Kassian highly, and he somehow falls to the 19th spot, then sure they'd make the swap. But if they don't see anything special between 19th and 29th, then they don't even bother with it. Just because the Rags 1st and the Wings 1st are 10 spots apart, doesn't mean the Wings scouting staff thinks the players ranked around 19th are significantly better than those ranked around 29th.

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Old
06-20-2009, 09:56 PM
  #16
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I would pull the trigger as a rangers fan. Their drafting has gotten better as of late but for awhile there, I would rather give the 1st round pick away so they didnt mess it up with a brendl or lundmark or hugh jessiman pick.

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Old
06-20-2009, 10:55 PM
  #17
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Drop detroits first and its fair value.

Alternative if you want to keep detroits 1st change your 6th to your 2nd.

10 spots+ a 2nd rounder or Your 1st rounder imo. I wouldnt take any less.

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Old
06-20-2009, 11:07 PM
  #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by solo16 View Post
Drop detroits first and its fair value.

Alternative if you want to keep detroits 1st change your 6th to your 2nd.

10 spots+ a 2nd rounder or Your 1st rounder imo. I wouldnt take any less.
I'm sorry but Hudler is good, but definitely NOT worth a 1st rounder. Especially when it is getting hard for Detroit to contain him.

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Old
06-20-2009, 11:09 PM
  #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GongShowHockeyNYR View Post
I'm sorry but Hudler is good, but definitely NOT worth a 1st rounder. Especially when it is getting hard for Detroit to contain him.
I have his high end value as a low 1st. (will take at least that for any offer sheet). Trading for him might actually save you some cap space.

I like my other proposal more though as I agree its a bit more realistic.

Det 29th + hudler

NYR 19th + 2nd



10 spots and a 2nd is prob fair for both teams.

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Old
06-20-2009, 11:26 PM
  #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GongShowHockeyNYR View Post
I'm sorry but Hudler is good, but definitely NOT worth a 1st rounder. Especially when it is getting hard for Detroit to contain him.
How is Hudler not worth a 1st? What is worth a low-mid 1st then?

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Old
06-20-2009, 11:27 PM
  #21
Shark Staal
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Quote:
Originally Posted by solo16 View Post
I have his high end value as a low 1st. (will take at least that for any offer sheet). Trading for him might actually save you some cap space.

I like my other proposal more though as I agree its a bit more realistic.

Det 29th + hudler

NYR 19th + 2nd



10 spots and a 2nd is prob fair for both teams.
I probably wouldn't do it. I'd rather do what DetroitWhat proposed of 29th and Hudler for 19th and a 4th2010. You guys gain cap space for Hossa and move up 10 spots. The Rangers go back 10 spots, but also gain Hudler. Of course the players Detroit is interested in has to be at where the Rangers pick, or else the deal is worthless.

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Old
06-20-2009, 11:31 PM
  #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DG View Post
How is Hudler not worth a 1st? What is worth a 1st then?
I just don't think he equals a first rounder. Especially how 1st rounders are worth these days. If you look at past deals it takes usually a late 1st or early 2nd and another 2nd, to move up around 6 spots. Now Detroit would be moving up 10 spots, and they need/want to re-sign Hossa. I just think he isn't gonna grow into a 70 point player. I think he will be where he is at now in 5-10 years.

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Old
06-20-2009, 11:46 PM
  #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GongShowHockeyNYR View Post
I just don't think he equals a first rounder. Especially how 1st rounders are worth these days. If you look at past deals it takes usually a late 1st or early 2nd and another 2nd, to move up around 6 spots. Now Detroit would be moving up 10 spots, and they need/want to re-sign Hossa. I just think he isn't gonna grow into a 70 point player. I think he will be where he is at now in 5-10 years.
For the record not signing hudler doesnt really free up cap space. In order to keep Hossa we have to NOT sign Hudler and Samuelson AND trade someone.

Hudler is really just a contingency plan for Hossa.

I think Gongshow undervalues him.

Ask yourself this would you rather

A. Send an offer sheet for 3M + your 1st and your 3rd for jiri Hudler
B. Trade down 10 spots and move your 2nd then sign Jiri at 2 or 2.5M on his RFA contract...


Option B is imo clearly better. I think there are one or two teams that consider throwing him an offer sheet in the 3M range. (overpayment yes) And I think teams know they can get a better cap hit and give up less assets by just calling up holland. So the value is likely slightly below the Offersheet compensation.

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Old
06-20-2009, 11:46 PM
  #24
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Hudler is alright.

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Old
06-21-2009, 12:39 AM
  #25
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WOuldn't the Wings just take the picks given from an offer-sheet?

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