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Bouwmeester interested in Philly

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Old
06-19-2009, 06:57 AM
  #76
Snotbubbles
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Originally Posted by ArmchairGM View Post
I ran the numbers, and getting J-Bo just cant happen. We would have to loose to many quality players. I will show my reasoning.

To Philadelphia:
Rights to J-Bo
Kamil Kreps (.6825 for one more year)

To Florida:
Carle
Denis Bodrov
3rd '09
Conditional 1st '10 if J-Bo signs with Philadelphia



J-Bo signs for 68 million over ten years
Sign Y.Perreault 1 year at .75
Resign Alberts one year at 1.25
Waiver sheet or trade for Harding, we should attract J-Bo with Lupul (They both played together)

09-10 Roster

Gagne - Briere - Giroux[12.571]
Hartnell - Richards - Lupul [14.2]
Powe - Carter - Kreps [6.2075]
Carcillo - Y. Perreault - Asham [2.28375]

Timonen - Bouwmeester [ 13.13]
Coburn - Parent [2.155]
Sbisa- Alberts [2.125]

Emery [3.00]
Harding

Total; 55.67225

This would be our best year for the cup

10-11

Trade Lupul
Resign Powe for 1 million
Resign Kreps for 1.2 million
Resign Asham for .75 million
Resign Coburn for 3 million
Resign Parent for 1.3 million
Resign one of Harding or Emery for 3 million
Sign back up goalie

Gagne- Briere - Giroux [12.571]
Hartnell - Richards - Nodl [10.825]
Powe- Carter- Kreps [7.2]
Kalinski - Matsumoto - Asham [2.225]


Timonen - J-Bo [13.13]
Coburn - Parent [4.3]
Sbisa - Marshall [1.75]

Emery or Harding for 3 million
Teslak or Backlund for .750

Total 55.675 If the cap goes down a lot as reported we may also have to move Gagne and bring JVR up. New cap hit would then be 52.925, still may be to high

As you can see, it would cause major problems to our cap. The next season Carter, Giroux, Sbisa, Matsumoto, and maybe Marshall would have to be resigned. At this point Briere would have to be moved and Maroon would probably have to play.

If the cap goes up towards 60 million (Unlikely) we can still keep Briere and have a great group of forwards

The best option would probably be to go after Ohlund, it allows us to keep a better forward group.



Bouwmeester is tempting, but getting his is just not plausible. Maybe we could try a long 15 year deal with a cap of 4.5.

2 things.

1. It's very plausible that Holmgren could get Bouwmeester to accept two years at very minimal salary at the end of the contract to lower the cap hit. In your scenario you have him at 10 years, $68M. By adding two low priced years (similar to Zetterberg) say 12 years, $70M his cap hit goes from 6.8 to 5.8. We really don't know at this point what Bouwmeester is willing to do, but I would think if you front load the money any player would be amenable to adding on a year or two at the end to lower the cap hit to help keep talent on the team.

2. You assume we have to trade Gagne, but a just as likely scenario is we trade Briere. Another option would be to trade Timonen in 2010-2011 when he's 35. He's not gonna play forever. At some point in time you have to believe that Parent and Sbisa will be super solid top 4 defensemen (to go with Coburn and Bouwmeester). A top 4 of Bouwmeester, Coburn, Parent and Sbisa is pretty good assuming all of them continue to develop.

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06-19-2009, 07:18 AM
  #77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sa cyred View Post
Who wants to trade Gagne? Other then a few here (who most of the time wanted to trade him) most of us want Gags here still.
im a big simon gagne fan. i think hes one of the more under appreciated players on this team. 34 goals and 74 points with a +21... the guy answered everyone's questions last year about if he could stay healthy after the concussion battles. he responded in a big way. why people want him traded is a mystery to me.

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06-19-2009, 07:24 AM
  #78
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09-10 Roster

Gagne - Briere - Giroux[12.571]
Hartnell - Richards - Lupul [14.2]
Powe/Carcillo - Carter - Kreps [6.2075]
Carcillo/Powe - Y. Perreault - Asham [2.28375]

Timonen - Bouwmeester [ 13.13]
Coburn - Parent [2.155]
Sbisa- Alberts [2.125]

Emery [3.00]
Harding

If Emery plays like he did in russia, and the way he played for the senators when they went to the final. Then this team has possibly the greatest chance to win the cup since the 70's.

Taking in to considering everyone of the top 2 lines can reach 30 goals, and Carter can make 40 goals by himself, Those lines are lethal. Include the playmaking ability of JayBo and Timmonen without having to defend for 5 other players,

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06-19-2009, 10:22 AM
  #79
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Originally Posted by shamski7 View Post
im a big simon gagne fan. i think hes one of the more under appreciated players on this team. 34 goals and 74 points with a +21... the guy answered everyone's questions last year about if he could stay healthy after the concussion battles. he responded in a big way. why people want him traded is a mystery to me.
I agree. Behind Richards and Timonen, Gagne is the third-best player on the Flyers. He's got a phenomenal two-way game, great scoring touch, and he's a quiet leader. He is a calming presence in the locker room. He is the second-best goal-scorer on the team and is better than average in shootouts. Furthermore, he is the longest-tenured Flyer and held the organization together during the brutal 06-07 season. If he and Briere had both been healthy, those two would have both put up ridiculous numbers.

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06-19-2009, 10:48 AM
  #80
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Supposedly a major announcement on the Panthers Web site in the next hour!!!!!!!

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06-21-2009, 11:12 AM
  #81
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http://www.faceoff.com/hockey/teams/...tml?id=1715393

Philly, Dallas, Vancouver mentioned. Edmonton not expected to be interested.
Also intriguing, agent says no one has talked about a trade-and-sign. Yet.

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06-21-2009, 11:39 AM
  #82
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Originally Posted by Murphy7 View Post
http://www.faceoff.com/hockey/teams/...tml?id=1715393

Philly, Dallas, Vancouver mentioned. Edmonton not expected to be interested.
Also intriguing, agent says no one has talked about a trade-and-sign. Yet.
Quote:
Bouwmeester's local agent, Bryon Baltimore, wouldn't be surprised if some team deals for his client's negotiating rights for, say, a 48-hour window prior to July 1, but no club has called to sound him out. Logically, that step would have to happen before a team would give up a high draft pick or player just for the chance to talk dollars.
Actually, they would have to work out a deal with Florida first...or it would be tampering.

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06-21-2009, 12:26 PM
  #83
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Originally Posted by Jester View Post
Actually, they would have to work out a deal with Florida first...or it would be tampering.
True, and I would assume that the Agent was speaking of no teams approaching the Panthers... who would then relay the request information to him for response.

My take on Homer PC last week was that he alluded to the Flyers 'knowing' that Kimmo, Hartnell and to a lesser extent, Biron had strong interest/desire to play here... He stopped basically in mid-sentence in saying just that -- no need to flaunt a loose tampering skirting, thus drawing future closer scrutiny.

Homer flat out stated that it is foolish to pay for what can be obtained for free... laughing in saying so... The Media for some odd reason went with it as if Homer was saying that that was a good way to go, and that the Flyers may go that route -- was I so off base to see it the complete opposite way as I listened?


... Tampering is something that is not looked at very tightly... Homer's request to shut off the mics did not preclude his continuation when they kept running. GMs are often asked questions that they should not respond to when an exact name is mentioned; they often say that they would or would not be interested, even though the Rights to said player(s) are held until 7/1.

It is all a game and, unless things go over the line and becomes blatant... to a point where they obtain unfair advantage over other organizations, I see no problem whatsoever... When and if a team is shortchanged, the organization should be punished in a proper fashion... IMO.

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06-21-2009, 12:30 PM
  #84
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Originally Posted by FlyersJunky View Post
True, and I would assume that the Agent was speaking of no teams approaching the Panthers... who would then relay the request information to him for response.
Well, apparently his agent does represent very many hockey players, so he is not necessarily that hooked into the process. One of the concerns with Bouwmeester is that people don't have a read on him or his agent.

Quote:
My take on Homer PC last week was that he alluded to the Flyers 'knowing' that Kimmo, Hartnell and to a lesser extent, Biron had strong interest/desire to play here... He stopped basically in mid-sentence in saying just that -- no need to flaunt a loose tampering skirting, thus drawing future closer scrutiny.

Homer flat out stated that it is foolish to pay for what can be obtained for free... laughing in saying so... The Media for some odd reason went with it as if Homer was saying that that was a good way to go, and that the Flyers may go that route -- was I so off base to see it the complete opposite way as I listened?


... Tampering is something that is not looked at very tightly... Homer's request to shut off the mics did not preclude his continuation when they kept running. GMs are often asked questions that they should not respond to when an exact name is mentioned; they often say that they would or would not be interested, even though the Rights to said player(s) are held until 7/1.

It is all a game and, unless things go over the line and becomes blatant... to a point where they obtain unfair advantage over other organizations, I see no problem whatsoever... When and if a team is shortchanged, the organization should be punished in a proper fashion... IMO.
Tampering is just plain hard to prove. As to the PC, apparently they cut out that footage when they posted it as a file later...so they definitely cared. However, there is certainly numerous back channel methods of communicating and gathering information that go on constantly...I imagine people don't care as long as it isn't too blunt, or too specific.

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06-21-2009, 12:34 PM
  #85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jester View Post
Well, apparently his agent does represent very many hockey players, so he is not necessarily that hooked into the process. One of the concerns with Bouwmeester is that people don't have a read on him or his agent.


Tampering is just plain hard to prove. As to the PC, apparently they cut out that footage when they posted it as a file later...so they definitely cared. However, there is certainly numerous back channel methods of communicating and gathering information that go on constantly...I imagine people don't care as long as it isn't too blunt, or too specific.
I am not following your reasoning here... Sometimes I'm a little dense.

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06-21-2009, 12:38 PM
  #86
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Originally Posted by FlyersJunky View Post
I am not following your reasoning here... Sometimes I'm a little dense.
His agent doesn't have a lot of experience representing hockey players apparently...he is a relative "unknown" to hockey people. I'm not sure he's ever been in a situation where he had a client that could possibly have his rights traded to another team, so he may have no clue how that process plays out.

I would not expect the Panthers to have moved Bouwmeester yet, but likely have things heat up in the next week. Ideally, I think both other teams and the Panthers would like to have a deal in place and done prior to the draft, so the compensation can be from this upcoming draft. However, it's possible you'll see that all go down on the draft day.

That being said, I doubt the Panthers go to the agent until they have locked down some proposed trades that they like, and then they'd see which teams Bouwmeester would be most interested in signing with.

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06-21-2009, 12:55 PM
  #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jester View Post
His agent doesn't have a lot of experience representing hockey players apparently...he is a relative "unknown" to hockey people. I'm not sure he's ever been in a situation where he had a client that could possibly have his rights traded to another team, so he may have no clue how that process plays out.

I would not expect the Panthers to have moved Bouwmeester yet, but likely have things heat up in the next week. Ideally, I think both other teams and the Panthers would like to have a deal in place and done prior to the draft, so the compensation can be from this upcoming draft. However, it's possible you'll see that all go down on the draft day.

That being said, I doubt the Panthers go to the agent until they have locked down some proposed trades that they like, and then they'd see which teams Bouwmeester would be most interested in signing with.
Gotcha, thanks.

This thing could get very interesting over the next week or so... VERY interesting.

I'm kinda thinking that J-Bo has his sights set on Vancouver... BUT they may not want to use their assets and future assets in that way, as the Edmonton article stated.

I like that he was reported to say that he likes the Flyers organization culture (paraphrased)... If I were a player with control, I believe that I would love the future security that being in such a 'Family' organization brings. A long contract in Philly and a lifetime of happy, happy, joy, joy afterlife.

If Vancouver goes with the Sedins and the Flyers can deal that big contract(s) for assets, I can see him in O&B... and not losing any assets to Florida. Just a hunch.

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06-21-2009, 01:17 PM
  #88
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I still don't think Bouwmeester is coming to Philadelphia. Just too much salary will need to be moved and it's not as easy as waving a wand all this salary will magically 'disappear'. Do I see moves being made in Philadelphia? Certainly, but I think everyone is setting themselves up for disappointment in terms of Bouwmeester. Get used to the idea of someone like Beauchemin or Ohlund coming here instead, not that there would be anything wrong with either one of them wearing orange and black.

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06-21-2009, 01:17 PM
  #89
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jester View Post
His agent doesn't have a lot of experience representing hockey players apparently...he is a relative "unknown" to hockey people. I'm not sure he's ever been in a situation where he had a client that could possibly have his rights traded to another team, so he may have no clue how that process plays out.

I would not expect the Panthers to have moved Bouwmeester yet, but likely have things heat up in the next week. Ideally, I think both other teams and the Panthers would like to have a deal in place and done prior to the draft, so the compensation can be from this upcoming draft. However, it's possible you'll see that all go down on the draft day.

That being said, I doubt the Panthers go to the agent until they have locked down some proposed trades that they like, and then they'd see which teams Bouwmeester would be most interested in signing with.
I read that, too and was a bit surprised. When I first saw the name, I thought he was the ex-WHA player of the same name (Bryon Baltimore -- teammates with Mark Messier, Rick Dudley, Mike Gartner and Barry Melrose among others with the Cincinnati Stingers); he played with the Oilers briefly in the NHL.

http://www.edmontonjournal.com/sport...393/story.html

Quote:
Bouwmeester's local agent, Bryon Baltimore, wouldn't be surprised if some team deals for his client's negotiating rights for, say, a 48-hour window prior to July 1, but no club has called to sound him out. Logically, that step would have to happen before a team would give up a high draft pick or player just for the chance to talk dollars.

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06-21-2009, 01:31 PM
  #90
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Originally Posted by BobbyClarkeFan16 View Post
I still don't think Bouwmeester is coming to Philadelphia. Just too much salary will need to be moved and it's not as easy as waving a wand all this salary will magically 'disappear'. Do I see moves being made in Philadelphia? Certainly, but I think everyone is setting themselves up for disappointment in terms of Bouwmeester. Get used to the idea of someone like Beauchemin or Ohlund coming here instead, not that there would be anything wrong with either one of them wearing orange and black.
No matter which big ticket D-man would be signed/obtained -- and, granted, some would be bigger Cap-wise than others -- big Cap clearing moves would have to be made by the Flyers... and many other clubs, for that matter.

Either the team clears room, or doesn't and stays with what they have -- and Homer likes, according to his own words -- if they clear room, I see it being done at the large dip level as much as a lesser level.

The question of how much should be tied up going forward, and at what length, is the Million Dollar Question (scaled up for inflation)... No matter which way they go, the player better pan out; the higher the contract, the more important that the gamble pays off.


Being creative can move Cap space -- see; Clarke, Robert E. -- Homer will just have to be willing to give away a player in exchange for the Cap money to purchase another... which is really what it's all about, no?... or he will have to even be willing to pay a bonus, asset-wise, to move Cap space. And that is the one that hurts, and places his you-know-whats in a vice.

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06-21-2009, 01:53 PM
  #91
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Originally Posted by FlyersJunky View Post
No matter which big ticket D-man would be signed/obtained -- and, granted, some would be bigger Cap-wise than others -- big Cap clearing moves would have to be made by the Flyers... and many other clubs, for that matter.

Either the team clears room, or doesn't and stays with what they have -- and Homer likes, according to his own words -- if they clear room, I see it being done at the large dip level as much as a lesser level.

The question of how much should be tied up going forward, and at what length, is the Million Dollar Question (scaled up for inflation)... No matter which way they go, the player better pan out; the higher the contract, the more important that the gamble pays off.


Being creative can move Cap space -- see; Clarke, Robert E. -- Homer will just have to be willing to give away a player in exchange for the Cap money to purchase another... which is really what it's all about, no?... or he will have to even be willing to pay a bonus, asset-wise, to move Cap space. And that is the one that hurts, and places his you-know-whats in a vice.
See, what worries me about cap clearing is that we know it's going to be difficult, if not, next to impossible to move Briere. Gagne probably won't waive his no trade clause either. Richards is going nowhere because he's the face of the franchise and Hartnell also has a no trade clause. That leaves two forwards who can be moved - Lupul being one of them, Carter being the other. And if the Flyers can't find a taker for Lupul, that means Carter is in play and that could be a big, big, big mistake, especially when we have no real centers on the team with any sort of size (I don't like that word size, but it's something that needs to be examined).

IF, they decide that Carter needs to be moved, I could see a bidding war developing, but at the same time, are we going to get true value for a 6'3, 200 + pound centerman who scored 46 goals in his fourth year? Are we going to get true value for someone who hasn't even hit his prime yet and is probably going to get better and better? I don't know.

And that's what worries me. If they can't move Briere or Lupul, then they'll look at the one asset they can move, but it might just be the wrong asset to move. I honestly don't know what they're going to do this offseason, but I've got a hunch that something not right might possibly happen......

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06-21-2009, 02:02 PM
  #92
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Originally Posted by Spongolium View Post
09-10 Roster

Gagne - Briere - Giroux[12.571]
Hartnell - Richards - Lupul [14.2]
Powe/Carcillo - Carter - Kreps [6.2075]
Carcillo/Powe - Y. Perreault - Asham [2.28375]

Timonen - Bouwmeester [ 13.13]
Coburn - Parent [2.155]
Sbisa- Alberts [2.125]

Emery [3.00]
Harding

If Emery plays like he did in russia, and the way he played for the senators when they went to the final. Then this team has possibly the greatest chance to win the cup since the 70's.

Taking in to considering everyone of the top 2 lines can reach 30 goals, and Carter can make 40 goals by himself, Those lines are lethal. Include the playmaking ability of JayBo and Timmonen without having to defend for 5 other players,

I am not sure about the lines (Carter doesn't have much talent on his line; would Kreps take faceoffs and then move to RW?), but the roster is very, very nice. I'd like to see a decent 6th/7th defenseman added there. And Stevens may want Timonen on one pairing and Bouwmeester on another, rather than run those guys out there 25-28 minutes a night together.

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06-21-2009, 02:10 PM
  #93
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What would people think of this lineup that I pulled off:

Gagne-Richards-Recchi(1.75M base, 900K in bonuses)
Hartnell-Carter-Giroux
Powe-Briere-Nolan
Cote-Ross-Asham

Bouwmeester-Parent
Timonen-Coburn
Hnidy/Klee-Sbisa
Franson

Emery
Gustavsson
Pickard

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06-21-2009, 02:12 PM
  #94
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Originally Posted by BobbyClarkeFan16 View Post
See, what worries me about cap clearing is that we know it's going to be difficult, if not, next to impossible to move Briere. Gagne probably won't waive his no trade clause either. Richards is going nowhere because he's the face of the franchise and Hartnell also has a no trade clause. That leaves two forwards who can be moved - Lupul being one of them, Carter being the other. And if the Flyers can't find a taker for Lupul, that means Carter is in play and that could be a big, big, big mistake, especially when we have no real centers on the team with any sort of size (I don't like that word size, but it's something that needs to be examined).

IF, they decide that Carter needs to be moved, I could see a bidding war developing, but at the same time, are we going to get true value for a 6'3, 200 + pound centerman who scored 46 goals in his fourth year? Are we going to get true value for someone who hasn't even hit his prime yet and is probably going to get better and better? I don't know.

And that's what worries me. If they can't move Briere or Lupul, then they'll look at the one asset they can move, but it might just be the wrong asset to move. I honestly don't know what they're going to do this offseason, but I've got a hunch that something not right might possibly happen......
I really think that Carter's off the board at this point... I don't see that as even a consideration.

Like I said, I look at something creative happening... If not, I think they don't do anything. Of course, any major move has to be contingent on J-Bo (or any other target) being in the bag.

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06-21-2009, 02:18 PM
  #95
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What would people think of this lineup that I pulled off:

Gagne-Richards-Recchi(1.75M base, 900K in bonuses)
Hartnell-Carter-Giroux
Powe-Briere-Nolan
Cote-Ross-Asham

Bouwmeester-Parent
Timonen-Coburn
Hnidy/Klee-Sbisa
Franson

Emery
Gustavsson
Pickard
Rex is one of my all time NHL favorites... but I'd rather give the money to Knuble.

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06-21-2009, 02:32 PM
  #96
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I really think that Carter's off the board at this point... I don't see that as even a consideration.

Like I said, I look at something creative happening... If not, I think they don't do anything. Of course, any major move has to be contingent on J-Bo (or any other target) being in the bag.
The problem though is that you don't know what Holmgren and company are thinking. I'm sure Carter's off the board as well, but it does merit some consideration in terms of moving salary. I don't like the idea of it, but if they can't move any other big ticketed player, then I think the idea of Carter certainly does come up.

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06-21-2009, 02:33 PM
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Rex is one of my all time NHL favorites... but I'd rather give the money to Knuble.
I'll take Rex over Knuble any day, especially when Recchi is still productive to this very day. We honestly wouldn't lose anything with Recchi in our line up and he'd do everthing that Knuble does, maybe even a bit better......

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06-21-2009, 02:45 PM
  #98
Sawdalite
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Originally Posted by BobbyClarkeFan16 View Post
The problem though is that you don't know what Holmgren and company are thinking. I'm sure Carter's off the board as well, but it does merit some consideration in terms of moving salary. I don't like the idea of it, but if they can't move any other big ticketed player, then I think the idea of Carter certainly does come up.
The return of assets from Carter AND the addition of J-Bo would have to be such a great one to even mull it over for longer than two seconds before passing it by.

I like the idea of J-Bo and such a potential top tier D-man... but I can't see moving a Carter for it.


But, you are correct, I don't know what Homer & Co. are thinking.

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06-21-2009, 02:48 PM
  #99
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Originally Posted by BobbyClarkeFan16 View Post
I'll take Rex over Knuble any day, especially when Recchi is still productive to this very day. We honestly wouldn't lose anything with Recchi in our line up and he'd do everthing that Knuble does, maybe even a bit better......
I say that Knuble can do what Rex can... and I will have to search for numbers on 2008-09 productivity. Both are leaders; Knuble is less caustic, to hear some people talk.

I'll be back...........

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06-21-2009, 02:57 PM
  #100
ELab2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BobbyClarkeFan16 View Post
I'll take Rex over Knuble any day, especially when Recchi is still productive to this very day. We honestly wouldn't lose anything with Recchi in our line up and he'd do everthing that Knuble does, maybe even a bit better......
he's not as good in front of the net which is why Knuble is here, so in that aspect I'm not sure it's a great swap

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