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Sedins reportedly want 63M-12 year deal... similar to Zetterberg's deal

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06-21-2009, 01:00 PM
  #301
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Originally Posted by AgentNaslund View Post
There not.

Stupid trolls, just want to take this oppurtunity to smash the Sedins for it.

"who do they think they are? asking for Zetterberg money? get real, they don't even play defence."

They are just using this to attack the Sedins. BTW totally false too, Henrik is a fine defensive player.
the contract would be the same length and end at the same age... and the difference per season is less than $1,000,000... I would say they are similar... obviously not the same but similar

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06-21-2009, 01:03 PM
  #302
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Originally Posted by Diamonddog01 View Post
Um the cap hit differential is 750k (which is the only thing really relevant in this discussion).
and how is that even relevant to this discussion?

because Zetterberg signed for X-amount, how does that impact what the Sedins sign for? There is no rule in the NHL that any player defines what other players earn. There are plenty of players in the NHL that have taken less than market value to sign with their teams, and there are plenty of players that haven't done that!

Zetterberg is easily one of the best all-around player in the NHL. Henrik and Daniel are no more in his category than Gomez or Drury are... the Sedins wanting $5.25mill/yr - or $750K less per year than Zetterberg signed for, is no more relevant then saying they want to make what Horcoff is signed for? or that Zetterberg is worth $1.45mill/yr less than Hossa is.

Zetterberg signed a great contract with the Wings... he is a superb player who signed a very cap-friendly contract with an organization where players expect to take cap-friendly contracts to stay there!

This has no bearing however to the Sedins... just like Campbell's contract has no bearing on what JBo is worth or will get on the market... just like Brodeur's contract didn't have an impact on what Luongo signed for.

Zetterberg is altogether a completely irrelevant part of any discussion about the Sedins!!

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06-21-2009, 01:13 PM
  #303
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Originally Posted by nuckfan in TO View Post
and how is that even relevant to this discussion?

because Zetterberg signed for X-amount, how does that impact what the Sedins sign for? There is no rule in the NHL that any player defines what other players earn. There are plenty of players in the NHL that have taken less than market value to sign with their teams, and there are plenty of players that haven't done that!

Zetterberg is easily one of the best all-around player in the NHL. Henrik and Daniel are no more in his category than Gomez or Drury are... the Sedins wanting $5.25mill/yr - or $750K less per year than Zetterberg signed for, is no more relevant then saying they want to make what Horcoff is signed for? or that Zetterberg is worth $1.45mill/yr less than Hossa is.

Zetterberg signed a great contract with the Wings... he is a superb player who signed a very cap-friendly contract with an organization where players expect to take cap-friendly contracts to stay there!

This has no bearing however to the Sedins... just like Campbell's contract has no bearing on what JBo is worth or will get on the market... just like Brodeur's contract didn't have an impact on what Luongo signed for.

Zetterberg is altogether a completely irrelevant part of any discussion about the Sedins!!
When the contract length is identical and the cap hit differential is 750k I think it's fair to compare the contracts and amounts (and the players involved) as they're clearly comparable. If the duration was exactly the same and the cap similar to Gomez's contract we would be comparing the Sedins to Gomez.

Players don't sign contracts in a vacuum, and agents and players often relate themselves to their peers when seeking new contracts. Of course it has bearing.

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06-21-2009, 01:14 PM
  #304
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Originally Posted by nuckfan in TO View Post
and how is that even relevant to this discussion?

because Zetterberg signed for X-amount, how does that impact what the Sedins sign for? There is no rule in the NHL that any player defines what other players earn. There are plenty of players in the NHL that have taken less than market value to sign with their teams, and there are plenty of players that haven't done that!

Zetterberg is easily one of the best all-around player in the NHL. Henrik and Daniel are no more in his category than Gomez or Drury are... the Sedins wanting $5.25mill/yr - or $750K less per year than Zetterberg signed for, is no more relevant then saying they want to make what Horcoff is signed for? or that Zetterberg is worth $1.45mill/yr less than Hossa is.

Zetterberg signed a great contract with the Wings... he is a superb player who signed a very cap-friendly contract with an organization where players expect to take cap-friendly contracts to stay there!

This has no bearing however to the Sedins... just like Campbell's contract has no bearing on what JBo is worth or will get on the market... just like Brodeur's contract didn't have an impact on what Luongo signed for.

Zetterberg is altogether a completely irrelevant part of any discussion about the Sedins!!
but what can you do when they start want to use the excuse they they are not in the same leauge as zetterberg as an excuse to attack them? BTW correct me if im wrong, but didnt each SEdin finish with 9 more points then Zetterberg????

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06-21-2009, 01:35 PM
  #305
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Originally Posted by Diamonddog01 View Post
When the contract length is identical and the cap hit differential is 750k I think it's fair to compare the contracts and amounts (and the players involved) as they're clearly comparable. If the duration was exactly the same and the cap similar to Gomez's contract we would be comparing the Sedins to Gomez.

Players don't sign contracts in a vacuum, and agents and players often relate themselves to their peers when seeking new contracts. Of course it has bearing.
why should it be comparable at all??

Players don't sign contracts in vacuum.... but they don't sign contracts entirely based on one other contract signed!

Zetterberg took an obvious discount to stay in Detroit. Why should every other player that is signed moving forward be kept to the same standard of that one contract?

If you're going to use Zetterberg's contract as a comparable, then bring up every other player that is put up points similar to the Sedins and use those contracts as a comparable as well.

And the term here is also being blown out of proportion. Contracts aren't static in the NHL... we've seen huge changes in the way contracts are done over the past few years, that it's unreasonable to assume that the dynamic won't keep changing. Just because Zetterberg signed a longterm deal for 12 years doesn't mean that only players at Zetterberg's level deserve such contracts... Franzen, although a great player, isn't in Zetterberg's level either.

We're seeing more and more longterm contracts in the past few years, so to me, this looks more like a changing trend than suggesting that only franchise players like Zetterberg will get them moving forward.

Bottom line, Zetterberg is one player, who signed a cap friendly deal with his current team, and is in no way a comparable for every FA contract that gets done... I'm sure we'll continue to see lesser players earn more money as well moving forward, as FA always has some players making more money than they deserve (like we've seen with the Rangers examples, and we saw with Campbell last year).

Players around the league have taken discounts before, and it doesn't reflect on future signings for similar players... I doubt we're going to see many 20-25 goal scorers signing for $2mill/yr just because Burrows did last year... I doubt we're going to see starting goalies look at Brodeur's contract as a guideline, when top goalies have since been signing for significantly more.

The Sedins are what they are - 2 PPG players hitting UFA status, who's market value will be based on what the teams can afford to pay them. Bringing up Zetterberg to the discussion is about as relevant as bringing up Gomez or Briere or Horcoff. Basically, bringing up ONE contract as the only example relevant to the Sedins makes no sense. No one is going to argue that the Sedins are as good as Zetterberg - but no one should expect the Sedins (or any other UFA for that matter) to take the same proportionate discount for their respective teams.

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06-21-2009, 02:39 PM
  #306
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Originally Posted by nuckfan in TO View Post
that would depend on if they have NMC or a NTC in their contract... if they have a NMC, then you couldn't waive them.

The most likely scenario however is that they simply retire at that stage anyways, instead of playing for $1mill/yr. That's basically the idea behind all these longterm deals... I don't see Franzen or Zetterberg playing when they are 40 either... they will likely retire at 37 or 38... both their contracts are structured so there is a big drop in salary at 37, and then again at 38, and they will get the majority of their pay in years before that, making it worthwhile for them to retire at that age, than play for a $1mill/yr till they're 40.
So let's say they're 37, no longer worth their cap hit, but still love the NHL game. They could want to keep playing but be forced to retire before they were ready?

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06-21-2009, 03:09 PM
  #307
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Originally Posted by middletoe View Post
So let's say they're 37, no longer worth their cap hit, but still love the NHL game. They could want to keep playing but be forced to retire before they were ready?
that's the risk that you take with these front-loaded contracts. There are no guarantees.

But considering the age when the majority of players do retire, added to the low actual salary they'll be paid at that stage in their careers, there's a greater chance that they retire at that age, then continue playing beyond that.

That's the risk you take with these career-long deals. You hope you get a lower cap hit over its life, by front-loading it, and leaving the years when most players choose to retire on their own, at a very low $$ amount comparatively - so the players have earned their money by the time they hit that average retirement age, and won't have to incentive to keep playing into those years when most players retire.

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06-21-2009, 03:47 PM
  #308
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nuckfan in TO View Post
that's the risk that you take with these front-loaded contracts. There are no guarantees.

But considering the age when the majority of players do retire, added to the low actual salary they'll be paid at that stage in their careers, there's a greater chance that they retire at that age, then continue playing beyond that.

That's the risk you take with these career-long deals. You hope you get a lower cap hit over its life, by front-loading it, and leaving the years when most players choose to retire on their own, at a very low $$ amount comparatively - so the players have earned their money by the time they hit that average retirement age, and won't have to incentive to keep playing into those years when most players retire.
They might not care about the money at that point. The incentive could be for example; a good shot at winning a cup or maybe a last chance to win the cup. You could want to be a part of it really bad, but have no choice but to retire.

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