HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > General Hockey Discussion > Trade Rumors and Free Agent Talk
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Trade Rumors and Free Agent Talk Trade rumors, transactions, and free agent talk. Rumors must contain the word RUMOR in post title. Proposals must contain the word PROPOSAL in post title.

Canucks offer for a top pick

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
06-21-2009, 03:33 PM
  #51
JohnHodgson
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 2,212
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by s7ark View Post
So according to you guys, if Coho was in this years draft, he'd be going ahead of Tavares? Oh wait, cause he's the next Francis right?

Hodgson is going to be a great player, but you guys really have your heads in the clouds, imo.
When did I say he would be going ahead of Tavares if he was in this year's draft?

I said I like Hodgson over Tavares because he's more complete, if he was eligible this year he'd be around the 3rd-5th spot.

Oh wait, cause Tavares is the next Hull right?

JohnHodgson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-21-2009, 04:15 PM
  #52
s7ark
LeonTheProfessional
 
s7ark's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Country: Canada
Posts: 22,639
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnHodgson View Post
When did I say he would be going ahead of Tavares if he was in this year's draft?

I said I like Hodgson over Tavares because he's more complete, if he was eligible this year he'd be around the 3rd-5th spot.

Oh wait, cause Tavares is the next Hull right?
According to your posts, Hodgson is going to have a better career, and Tavares is useless if not scoring, but you'd still take Tavares over Hodgson in this draft? Why on earth would you do that, if your believe your own rhetoric?

Tavares at the very least will likely play in the NHL at 18, something CoHo the Almighty couldn't accomplish. Again, I am not ragging on Hodgson, he'll be a great player, just not the best player in the league like a Dats and certainly not one of the best all time like a Francis(old comp I know, I haven't seen a nuck fan use it in a while)

s7ark is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-21-2009, 04:46 PM
  #53
JohnHodgson
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 2,212
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by s7ark View Post
According to your posts, Hodgson is going to have a better career, and Tavares is useless if not scoring, but you'd still take Tavares over Hodgson in this draft? Why on earth would you do that, if your believe your own rhetoric?

Tavares at the very least will likely play in the NHL at 18, something CoHo the Almighty couldn't accomplish. Again, I am not ragging on Hodgson, he'll be a great player, just not the best player in the league like a Dats and certainly not one of the best all time like a Francis(old comp I know, I haven't seen a nuck fan use it in a while)
Wait, I meant that in a real life draft Hodgson would be taken near the 3rd-5th spot if he was eligible for this draft. If I was drafting 1st overall I'd take Hedman over anyone else so...

So someone who plays at 18 years of age is better than someone who 's still in the minors at the same age? So I guess Bailey and Boedker are going to be better than Filatov? If Hodgson was picked by NYI he would probably be playing at 18 years of age with their lack of depth.

I disagree with Hodgson not being able to be one of the best players in the league. He has all the tools to become one of the best in the league, shooting, passing, leadership, two way play etc. I'm not saying he's going to be the next Datsyuk, but he definitely has the potential to. Whether or not he reaches his potential, time will tell. Same could be said for Tavares(with him being like a Heatley), both are prospects at this point and haven't played an NHL game so it's hard to compare who's going to be better.

JohnHodgson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-21-2009, 05:59 PM
  #54
Blane Youngblood
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 3,469
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by CrosbyCrosby View Post
tavares isnt worth giving up our only 2 defensemen that can skate faster than a snail moves
As previously said, consider this move in the context of freeing up cap space to go after a true #1 dman (like Nieds and\or JBo)

Blane Youngblood is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-21-2009, 07:20 PM
  #55
y2kcanucks
Cult of Personality
 
y2kcanucks's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Surrey, BC
Country: Canada
Posts: 46,400
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to y2kcanucks
If the Islanders make the mistake of drafting Hedman 1st overall, I'd love to see the Canucks offer up Alex Edler (or Kevin Bieksa), Yann Sauve, Michael Grabner (or Mason Raymond), the 22nd overall draft pick, the 53rd overall draft pick, and a 1st round pick in 2010 to the Lightning to get the 2nd overall pick, to draft Tavares.

y2kcanucks is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-21-2009, 07:38 PM
  #56
Agent007
Registered User
 
Agent007's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Country: Canada
Posts: 7,584
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by y2kcanucks View Post
If the Islanders make the mistake of drafting Hedman 1st overall, I'd love to see the Canucks offer up Alex Edler (or Kevin Bieksa), Yann Sauve, Michael Grabner (or Mason Raymond), the 22nd overall draft pick, the 53rd overall draft pick, and a 1st round pick in 2010 to the Lightning to get the 2nd overall pick, to draft Tavares.
There's not a chance in hell that happens.

Gillis has already made it clear that he is more interested in adding depth and there's no way he'll trade away that many assets just to get one in return even though he might be a superstar down the line.

IMO Gillis is more interested in moving down and not up in the draft. I look for him to trade to add a couple of 2nd round picks. The depth in this organization is real weak as is and I highly doubt he'll be willing to move that much just to add one asset.

Agent007 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-21-2009, 07:47 PM
  #57
y2kcanucks
Cult of Personality
 
y2kcanucks's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Surrey, BC
Country: Canada
Posts: 46,400
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to y2kcanucks
Quote:
Originally Posted by Agent007 View Post
There's not a chance in hell that happens.

Gillis has already made it clear that he is more interested in adding depth and there's no way he'll trade away that many assets just to get one in return even though he might be a superstar down the line.

IMO Gillis is more interested in moving down and not up in the draft. I look for him to trade to add a couple of 2nd round picks. The depth in this organization is real weak as is and I highly doubt he'll be willing to move that much just to add one asset.
I disagree. I think the allure of drafting a player with the potential to be a superstar in this league would be enough that Gillis would pull the trigger. Tavares could step onto our team next year and center the second line (assuming Hodgson centers the third), thus giving us some cap flexibility to sign top wingers to play on his line.

A team with Tavares and Hodgson down the middle will be set with two very strong scoring lines for years to come.

y2kcanucks is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-21-2009, 07:58 PM
  #58
God
Free Citizen
 
God's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Vancouver
Country: Canada
Posts: 6,715
vCash: 500
While some Canucks fans here are certainly overrating Hodgson, it should be understood that we haven't had a prospect like him since Pavel Bure. It's been what, 20 years? Our drafting record is atrocious. We didn't even have time to hype up Edler because he came out of nowhere

Regardless, a lot of the talk about Hodgson not being able to make the team this past year is a bit "off". He was the last guy cut on the team if I remember correctly, and it was only because we were trying to ice a competitive team. Of course Tavares is going to make an NHL team next year. He'll probably be on the Islanders, Lightning, or Avalanche, and all of those teams can afford to give him ice time, especially considering the fact that he's been in the OHL for four years.

God is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-21-2009, 08:56 PM
  #59
Agent007
Registered User
 
Agent007's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Country: Canada
Posts: 7,584
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by y2kcanucks View Post
I disagree. I think the allure of drafting a player with the potential to be a superstar in this league would be enough that Gillis would pull the trigger. Tavares could step onto our team next year and center the second line (assuming Hodgson centers the third), thus giving us some cap flexibility to sign top wingers to play on his line.

A team with Tavares and Hodgson down the middle will be set with two very strong scoring lines for years to come.
But from everything that Gillis has said so far it's obvious he wants to add more depth to the organization.

This deal leaves very little in terms of depth in the organization and sure it gives Vancouver a great 1-2 punch down the middle for years to come but you don't win much without some depth.

Vancouver puts too much on the table with that offer. If we had more depth then I'd be all for this trade. However we're giving up one of our best young defencemen, our best defensive prospect, one of our best young forwards, two 1st round picks and a 2nd round pick in a deep draft. That's 6 assets just to get 1 in return.

As funny as it sounds it still may not be enough to get Tampa interested and once again I just don't see Gillis willing to make that offer.

I wouldn't complain if it happened in fact I'd be pretty excited but it just doesn't appear to be the way Gillis wants to go.

Agent007 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-21-2009, 11:32 PM
  #60
crazyforhockey
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 5,468
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cao View Post
While some Canucks fans here are certainly overrating Hodgson, it should be understood that we haven't had a prospect like him since Pavel Bure. It's been what, 20 years? Our drafting record is atrocious. We didn't even have time to hype up Edler because he came out of nowhere

Regardless, a lot of the talk about Hodgson not being able to make the team this past year is a bit "off". He was the last guy cut on the team if I remember correctly, and it was only because we were trying to ice a competitive team. Of course Tavares is going to make an NHL team next year. He'll probably be on the Islanders, Lightning, or Avalanche, and all of those teams can afford to give him ice time, especially considering the fact that he's been in the OHL for four years.
And he might have still made the team but it was worthwhile to send him back to Brampton for more exp and also World Juniors.And he was out in every situation...pp,pk,evenstrength,dont undervalue..

crazyforhockey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-21-2009, 11:33 PM
  #61
y2kcanucks
Cult of Personality
 
y2kcanucks's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Surrey, BC
Country: Canada
Posts: 46,400
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to y2kcanucks
Quote:
Originally Posted by Agent007 View Post
But from everything that Gillis has said so far it's obvious he wants to add more depth to the organization.

This deal leaves very little in terms of depth in the organization and sure it gives Vancouver a great 1-2 punch down the middle for years to come but you don't win much without some depth.

Vancouver puts too much on the table with that offer. If we had more depth then I'd be all for this trade. However we're giving up one of our best young defencemen, our best defensive prospect, one of our best young forwards, two 1st round picks and a 2nd round pick in a deep draft. That's 6 assets just to get 1 in return.

As funny as it sounds it still may not be enough to get Tampa interested and once again I just don't see Gillis willing to make that offer.

I wouldn't complain if it happened in fact I'd be pretty excited but it just doesn't appear to be the way Gillis wants to go.
True but what good is "depth" if it's just name prospects who aren't really contributing much? I'd much rather have someone like Tavares who could step into our top 6 immediately, on an ELC, than picking up a couple of "depth" prospects who likely wouldn't contribute for at least 3-4 years if at all.

y2kcanucks is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-21-2009, 11:44 PM
  #62
GuruOfHockey
 
GuruOfHockey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 22
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by CREW99AW View Post
There haven't been ANY comments from the isles about which way they are leaning.Snow did say just days ago,he knows who he wants at 1st overall,doesn't expect to trade down from that pick.He did say he and his scouts are focusing on the late 1st and 2nds.

Sounds like he still wants to move up to the middle of the first round from 26th.

Bob McKenzie predicts they'll take Hedman 1st overall.
Chris Botta predicts they'll take Tavares 1st overall.
Greg Logan predicts they'll take Duchene 1st overall.
I know, why not put the three names into a Top Hat, raise it above Snow's head, and let him draw the winner out, it's about as good a way as anything else.

GuruOfHockey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-21-2009, 11:51 PM
  #63
TrueCanuckle
Registered User
 
TrueCanuckle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: calgary
Country: Canada
Posts: 349
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by s7ark View Post
According to your posts, Hodgson is going to have a better career, and Tavares is useless if not scoring, but you'd still take Tavares over Hodgson in this draft? Why on earth would you do that, if your believe your own rhetoric?

Tavares at the very least will likely play in the NHL at 18, something CoHo the Almighty couldn't accomplish. Again, I am not ragging on Hodgson, he'll be a great player, just not the best player in the league like a Dats and certainly not one of the best all time like a Francis(old comp I know, I haven't seen a nuck fan use it in a while)
this guy oviously has issues... why do you think its SOOOOO important a player starts in the NHL at 18? does that make the player better if he starts at 18? NO
and no, gillis is a brillient GM for not letting him in the NHL, and to let him have another year of conditioning... take stamkos as a example!!

TrueCanuckle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-21-2009, 11:56 PM
  #64
JohnHodgson
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 2,212
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by NHL KING View Post
this guy oviously has issues... why do you think its SOOOOO important a player starts in the NHL at 18? does that make the player better if he starts at 18? NO
and no, gillis is a brillient GM for not letting him in the NHL, and to let him have another year of conditioning... take stamkos as a example!!
To be fair Stamkos had a pretty good season but your spot on. Hodgson improved himself and earlier someone had a post of what he did in 2009, incredible.

JohnHodgson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-22-2009, 02:04 AM
  #65
Blane Youngblood
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 3,469
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by NHL KING View Post
this guy oviously has issues... why do you think its SOOOOO important a player starts in the NHL at 18? does that make the player better if he starts at 18? NO
and no, gillis is a brillient GM for not letting him in the NHL, and to let him have another year of conditioning... take stamkos as a example!!
Honestly, Hodgson wasn't good enough to make the Canucks at the start of the season.

Also, Stamkos had a rough start, but development wise he really seemed to improve in the 2nd half and looks like he'll have a monster season next year.

Re: the proposed trade, Tavares has a chance to be a Dany Heatley type player. In making the trade (and really I just meant Edler + Bieksa + 1st + Raymond/Grabner) the Canucks would free up like $4M in cap space which would probably be enough to offer $6-7.5M for either Niedermayer or Bouwmeester (while keeping the Sedins). At this point I'd take a pairing of Bouwmeester/Niedermayer with say Vanannen over Edler + Bieksa, so we don't get worse on D and we get Tavares. This IMO makes it well worth giving up the other assets for.

Blane Youngblood is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-22-2009, 02:31 AM
  #66
JohnHodgson
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 2,212
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by jin View Post
Honestly, Hodgson wasn't good enough to make the Canucks at the start of the season.

Also, Stamkos had a rough start, but development wise he really seemed to improve in the 2nd half and looks like he'll have a monster season next year.

Re: the proposed trade, Tavares has a chance to be a Dany Heatley type player. In making the trade (and really I just meant Edler + Bieksa + 1st + Raymond/Grabner) the Canucks would free up like $4M in cap space which would probably be enough to offer $6-7.5M for either Niedermayer or Bouwmeester (while keeping the Sedins). At this point I'd take a pairing of Bouwmeester/Niedermayer with say Vanannen over Edler + Bieksa, so we don't get worse on D and we get Tavares. This IMO makes it well worth giving up the other assets for.

And if it's not guaranteed we sign Bouw/Nieds, I guess were screwed. Davison and Vananen second pairing? No guarantee on Vananen either.

JohnHodgson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-22-2009, 02:52 AM
  #67
Darth Milbury
Registered User
 
Darth Milbury's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Searching for Kvasha
Country: Bosnia and Herzegovina
Posts: 37,517
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by y2kcanucks View Post
If the Islanders make the mistake of drafting Hedman 1st overall, I'd love to see the Canucks offer up Alex Edler (or Kevin Bieksa), Yann Sauve, Michael Grabner (or Mason Raymond), the 22nd overall draft pick, the 53rd overall draft pick, and a 1st round pick in 2010 to the Lightning to get the 2nd overall pick, to draft Tavares.
I'm fairly certain the Isles are not taking Hedman, given that the agent for Duchene and Tavares has said that the Isles will be taking one of his clients. Botta, at Islespointblank, explained why that is credible and I believe it. If there is any surprises here at all, it may be the Isles taking Duchene.

In any case, I think it is a virtually certainty that Hedman is a Bolt come draft day.

I also don't see the package you guys are offering as having as much value as some of you think. Late picks, marginal prospects (Grabner) are not going to get anything done. Bieksa or Edler would be nice, but not nice enough to get a top three team interested in deal.

Its a nice fantasy, but I wouldn't get my hopes up about moving up in this draft.

Oh, and whatever doubt I have about Snow, he has pretty much shown himself to be a man of his word. In his TSN interview, he stated in no uncertain terms that he is not moving the pick.


Last edited by Darth Milbury: 06-22-2009 at 02:59 AM.
Darth Milbury is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-22-2009, 04:32 AM
  #68
Wildcarder
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Vancouver
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,097
vCash: 500
If the Canucks are serious about winning now, there's no way they trade for Tavares as it'd involve giving up way too much.

If Hodgson were to be eligble for this year's draft, he'd be ranked no lower than 4th, but for argument's sake, let's put him 3rd behind Tavares and Hedman. Would you trade the 3rd overall pick, Edler or Bieksa, and Raymond or Grabner or the 22nd pick for the 1st overall pick? That seems like incredible overpayment from the Canucks end for a player that while has the potential to be a generation talent, hasn't proven anything.

From a Canucks perspective, I'd consider Bieksa, Grabner and the 22nd pick for Tavares, but anything more than that and it's a no, and there's no way the Islanders or Lightning would consider that enough anyway to land Tavares.

Wildcarder is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-22-2009, 06:50 AM
  #69
jumptheshark
Give the dog a bone
 
jumptheshark's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: hf retirement home
Country: United Nations
Posts: 52,601
vCash: 1850
Quote:
Originally Posted by jin View Post
With the rumor being that both the NYI and TBL are looking for defense and are thus considering drafting Hedman instead of Taveres, I am wondering if any combination of the following would land a pick that would get the Nucks Tavares:

-Edler
-Bieksa
-1st (22nd)
-Raymond
-Grabner

I'm thinking Edler, Bieksa, and the Canucks 1st for Tavares. Would NYI or TB do it?
well since you are talking about 1st or second

the talk would start with Hodgson and of course nuck fans say that he is better then any of the guys they could pick at 1 or 2

Grabner is lurking onto the bust pile(based upon reviews of his last two season on the farm-more this years then last years)
Raymond is a 3rd liner with a chance to be a second liner--edler and Bieska are two players either you think are great or just average.

It is a quantity vs quality trade

__________________
not sure how--but the fish just jumped in the boat and put the hook in it's mouth
52299/14814
The twenty year rebuild is on!!! Embrace the suck
jumptheshark is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-22-2009, 07:37 AM
  #70
F A N
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 1,332
vCash: 500
Personally, I would trade up to draft Hedman not Tavares. There seems to be very limited risk that Hedman would turn out into a bust and in terms of upside value, I think Hedman's upside is higher. Hedman munching up 26min a night as an elite shutdown Dman is probably more valuable than Tavares scoring 40+ goals a season.

F A N is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-22-2009, 08:00 AM
  #71
JT 91 NYI*
 
JT 91 NYI*'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 695
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by jin View Post
With the rumor being that both the NYI and TBL are looking for defense and are thus considering drafting Hedman instead of Taveres, I am wondering if any combination of the following would land a pick that would get the Nucks Tavares:

-Edler
-Bieksa
-1st (22nd)
-Raymond
-Grabner

I'm thinking Edler, Bieksa, and the Canucks 1st for Tavares. Would NYI or TB do it?
Seriously dude...would you trade the future of your franchise for that garbage?

facepalm coming...














there it is

JT 91 NYI* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-22-2009, 08:03 AM
  #72
JT 91 NYI*
 
JT 91 NYI*'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 695
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Milbury View Post
I'm fairly certain the Isles are not taking Hedman, given that the agent for Duchene and Tavares has said that the Isles will be taking one of his clients. Botta, at Islespointblank, explained why that is credible and I believe it. If there is any surprises here at all, it may be the Isles taking Duchene.

In any case, I think it is a virtually certainty that Hedman is a Bolt come draft day.

I also don't see the package you guys are offering as having as much value as some of you think. Late picks, marginal prospects (Grabner) are not going to get anything done. Bieksa or Edler would be nice, but not nice enough to get a top three team interested in deal.

Its a nice fantasy, but I wouldn't get my hopes up about moving up in this draft.

Oh, and whatever doubt I have about Snow, he has pretty much shown himself to be a man of his word. In his TSN interview, he stated in no uncertain terms that he is not moving the pick.
If the Islanders draft Duchene, it won't be at #1. They will trade down. The difference in value between Tavares and Duchene is significant. I promise you the Islanders are not dumb enough to completely alienate their fan base and draft Duchene ahead of Tavares. This would be the last straw.

JT 91 NYI* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-22-2009, 09:41 AM
  #73
Luck 6
\\_______
 
Luck 6's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Vancouver
Posts: 7,277
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by s7ark View Post
Is he now? 10thOA last year = 1stOA this year? Hodgson couldn't make the NHL at 18 and Tavares is all but assured to play for whoever drafts him next year. I get that you guys like Coho, but try to keep your feet on the earth a bit.
You know... If Tavares stepped in last year he wouldn't have made our roster either quite likely. We woulda send him down to Juniors; there just wasn't a place for him on our roster last year.

This year is a different story. We have a lot more flexibility this year when compared to last year.

Luck 6 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-22-2009, 10:01 AM
  #74
s7ark
LeonTheProfessional
 
s7ark's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Country: Canada
Posts: 22,639
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by NHL KING View Post
this guy oviously has issues... why do you think its SOOOOO important a player starts in the NHL at 18? does that make the player better if he starts at 18? NO
and no, gillis is a brillient GM for not letting him in the NHL, and to let him have another year of conditioning... take stamkos as a example!!
I have issues because I don't think Hodgson is or will be as good as Tavares? Ok then...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Luck 6 View Post
You know... If Tavares stepped in last year he wouldn't have made our roster either quite likely. We woulda send him down to Juniors; there just wasn't a place for him on our roster last year.

This year is a different story. We have a lot more flexibility this year when compared to last year.
Tavares will play in the NHL next year even if Det drafts him. Any team in the league will fit him in next season.

And you guys are really focusing on the smaller point, that being the age of the player when they make the NHL, rather then my bigger point that Tavares>Hodgson and saying otherwise makes you a homer.

s7ark is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-22-2009, 10:40 AM
  #75
Grub
First Line Troll
 
Grub's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: B.C
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,263
vCash: 883
It's to bad the Canucks have a SMART GM.

There's absolutely no way Gillis does this...

Grub is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:36 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.