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Old
06-21-2009, 04:41 PM
  #26
BCS
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Homesick View Post
His cap hit is 5.6 million. Salary goes 7,6,5,3.
Cap hit is meaningless for a team with a self-imposed budget; actual dollars paid is what matters.

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Old
06-21-2009, 04:58 PM
  #27
oilers24
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A good trade between these 2 eams would be

To Edm
Drew Stafford
Paul Gaustad

To Buffalo
Tom Gilbert
Rob Schremp
3rd rd pick

Buffalo gets their puck mover they need, along with a ahl foward who has offensive potetnial, from close to buffalo, along with a draft pick.

Oilers get a gritty kid to play in their top 6 and a big physical centre.

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Old
06-21-2009, 05:04 PM
  #28
NFITO
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oilers24 View Post
A good trade between these 2 eams would be

To Edm
Drew Stafford
Paul Gaustad

To Buffalo
Tom Gilbert
Rob Schremp
3rd rd pick

Buffalo gets their puck mover they need, along with a ahl foward who has offensive potetnial, from close to buffalo, along with a draft pick.

Oilers get a gritty kid to play in their top 6 and a big physical centre.
I disagree... I don't think that trade helps the Sabres at all.

Schremp isn't worth much at all... he's not even a given to be qualified, considering his poor development so far, and the Oilers already having several players ahead of him on the depth chart.... they're much better off keeping Gaustad, who compliments Roy and Connelly much better down the middle.

value-wise, Stafford and Gaustad are worth more than that package, and that package doesn't even address the Sabres needs.

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Old
06-21-2009, 05:26 PM
  #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cheektovanek View Post
The Sabres really cure their payroll issues by adding a $7 million defenseman.
Sorry, but where do you plan on finding an elite PMD for less than $5M? Not gonna happen.

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Old
06-21-2009, 05:29 PM
  #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MonacoBlue View Post
Extremely one dimensional Tanguay? Are you ****ing kidding me? Tanguay is a wonderful two-way player who makes decisions with the puck and is a terrific ES player. Now plus-minus isn't always a useful stat, but consider that Tanguay has NEVER had a minus season. Lest you talk about how he only plays for good teams, consider how poor defensively the Habs played this year. Tanguay was still +13, one of the best on the team. Tanguay is far from one-dimensional. He always backchecks and isn't as prone to giveaways as many creative players.

EDIT: Tanguay led the team in plus-minus
Most forwards that are considered "wonderful two-way players" usually kill penalties, block shots, or have a high number of take aways. Since he doesnt play physical, avoids traffic, isn't known to be one of those character leader guys; I will stand by my statement that he is a soft one dimensional player.

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Old
06-21-2009, 05:42 PM
  #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Homesick View Post
Most forwards that are considered "wonderful two-way players" usually kill penalties, block shots, or have a high number of take aways. Since he doesnt play physical, avoids traffic, isn't known to be one of those character leader guys; I will stand by my statement that he is a soft one dimensional player.
What does being a good leader and playing physical have to do with being a good two-way player? So what if he doesn't hit people? Tanguay could kill penalties, but you don't really use your scoring forwards for that. Hell, Crosby doesn't kill penalties.

Tanguay is good defensively because he backchecks and is good at using the poke-check to get the puck back. He is good at tying up his man and plays a very strong positional game. He is always in the right position to help stop an opposing team's rush. Being a physical player is not necessary for being a good defensive player. Not at all. Like I said, he plays a smart game where you don't overexert yourself and make ridiculous sliding dives and crushing hits. His game is to get into the position, get the puck and use it to score.

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Old
06-21-2009, 05:52 PM
  #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oilers24 View Post
A good trade between these 2 eams would be

To Edm
Drew Stafford
Paul Gaustad

To Buffalo
Tom Gilbert
Rob Schremp
3rd rd pick

Buffalo gets their puck mover they need, along with a ahl foward who has offensive potetnial, from close to buffalo, along with a draft pick.

Oilers get a gritty kid to play in their top 6 and a big physical centre.
Schremp isn't worth much, and if he didnt like MacT, he'll really dislike Lindy Ruff.
Not saying that Gilbert >>>> Gaustad/Stafford but Gaustad is the only one that brings any value to the team but not enough. Doesnt make sense from an Oilers stand point

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Old
06-21-2009, 05:56 PM
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by struckbyaparkedcar View Post
Sabres don't need puck moving defensemen, they need a physical puck rushing defensman who can deliver punishing hits, consistently win matchups against top forwards and clear the zone consistently.
pavel kubina says hi

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Old
06-21-2009, 06:06 PM
  #34
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Originally Posted by Homesick View Post
Schremp isn't worth much, and if he didnt like MacT, he'll really dislike Lindy Ruff.
Not saying that Gilbert >>>> Gaustad/Stafford but Gaustad is the only one that brings any value to the team but not enough. Doesnt make sense from an Oilers stand point
Your right Drew Stafford wouldn't bring anything to your team.

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Old
06-21-2009, 06:08 PM
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MonacoBlue View Post
What does being a good leader and playing physical have to do with being a good two-way player? So what if he doesn't hit people? Tanguay could kill penalties, but you don't really use your scoring forwards for that. Hell, Crosby doesn't kill penalties.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Homesick View Post
Most forwards that are considered "wonderful two-way players" usually kill penalties, block shots, or have a high number of take aways. Since he doesnt play physical, avoids traffic, isn't known to be one of those character leader guys; I will stand by my statement that he is a soft one dimensional player.
Look again. I never said that being a leader or playing physical has anything to do with being a good two way player

Quote:
Originally Posted by MonacoBlue View Post
Tanguay is good defensively because he backchecks and is good at using the poke-check to get the puck back. He is good at tying up his man and plays a very strong positional game. He is always in the right position to help stop an opposing team's rush. Being a physical player is not necessary for being a good defensive player. Not at all. Like I said, he plays a smart game where you don't overexert yourself and make ridiculous sliding dives and crushing hits. His game is to get into the position, get the puck and use it to score.
31 take aways does not make him good at poking the puck away and recovering. The rest of your comments can be addressed above.

The original trade proposal doesnt work for either team. Buffalo needs a physical defense first defensman, and Edmonton really needs a top LW sniper

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Old
06-21-2009, 06:18 PM
  #36
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Originally Posted by is the answer jesus View Post
Your right Drew Stafford wouldn't bring anything to your team.
I'm not saying that Stafford doesnt have any value. We have a team full of 2nd/3rd liners.

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Old
06-21-2009, 06:26 PM
  #37
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Originally Posted by Homesick View Post
Look again. I never said that being a leader or playing physical has anything to do with being a good two way player

31 take aways does not make him good at poking the puck away and recovering. The rest of your comments can be addressed above.

The original trade proposal doesnt work for either team. Buffalo needs a physical defense first defensman, and Edmonton really needs a top LW sniper
Lol those stats are retarded. I watched Tanguay and he was great at stripping the puck away. He did it many times. Of course, you're also using stats in an absolutely wrong way. Consider the fact that Tanguay is playing as the winger on a scoring line. It's the center's job to be the most responsible player. He's the one who usually takes pucks away. Tanguay is the winger along the boards. His job is to pretty much force the other team's players into the defencemen. Tanguay was always a good backchecker who was in position to keep tabs on his man.

Besides that, like I said, Tanguay doesn't kill penalties because the Habs need him to do other things. But he CAN kill penalties. And, no, a good defensive player does not need to make diving plays all the time. Hossa is considered one of the top two way wingers and I have never seen him dive for the puck.

You clearly haven't watched Tanguay enough to recognize that he doesn't play a flashy game. He's already in position so he doesn't have to block shots. When he's on the ice, the other team doesn't score. That's why he led the team in plus/minus. It's one thing to have a good plus/minus. It's another to lead the team. Tell me, what exactly does he do hurt the team? Since when does not going down to block a shot make you bad defensively? And, when it comes to offensive forwards, since when did not playing the PK become a strike against them?

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Old
06-21-2009, 07:23 PM
  #38
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If vancouver could sign bouwmeester one of their top 4 would be up for trade and I'm thinking it might be bieksa. would buffalo be interested in someone like him?

Quote:
Originally Posted by BikeGiftingMan View Post
One of the Sabres downfalls, yes, but the problem is that soft, pseudo-offensive defensemen are all the Sabres have. They have no legitimate bone-breakers, nobody with any meanness at all, except for Weber [AHL].

If the Sabres are trading the 13th, a 2nd [which they don't have this year], and a prospect for a defenseman, I want to see an honest-to-goodness bruiser, not more of the same.

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Old
06-21-2009, 07:31 PM
  #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MonacoBlue View Post
Now plus-minus isn't always a useful stat, Tanguay was still +13, one of the best on the team.
EDIT: Tanguay led the team in plus-minus
Quote:
Originally Posted by MonacoBlue View Post
. That's why he led the team in plus/minus. It's one thing to have a good plus/minus. It's another to lead the team. And, when it comes to offensive forwards, since when did not playing the PK become a strike against them?
For a useless stat you sure do talk about +/- quite a bit to try and prove your point. But all other stats are rediculous....
EDIT: Grebeshkov led his team in +/- so he must be a franchise defenseman
Quote:
Originally Posted by nuckfan in TO View Post
I think you seriously overrate both Grebeshkov and Gilbert.

I don't think they get the 13th overall pick in the draft alone, let alone a 2nd and a prospect added! That's more than we've seen given up last year for Tanguay and Cammerelli and offensive forwards generally have more trade value than dmen do.

If either dman is worth a 1st rounder, it will be a late one... not a top 15 pick in a very solid draft (and then some!)
I don't think Edmonton would trade them for 13th overall when according to scouts/media/league sources the talent level after the top 7 sharply declines. What are the odds that any player taken 13th or later become as good as Gilbert or Grebeshkov.
Tanguay, and Cammalleri were both being run out of their respected organizations, both coming of poor seasons, and both had one year left until unrestricted free agency.

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Old
06-21-2009, 07:33 PM
  #40
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Originally Posted by Homesick View Post
I'm not saying that Stafford doesnt have any value. We have a team full of 2nd/3rd liners.
Stafford has the potential to be a 1st line player, every team in the league could use a player like him. I can understand if you said: "I'd rather keep Gilbert we already have a 1st line RW in Ales Hemsky" I just took exception to the statement that of the 2 players only Gaustad would have value to your team. With that said I wouldn't be opposed to the Sabres obtaining an offensive orientied defenseman especially if we don't re-sign Spacek. As far as the intial offer is concerned I'd rather just keep Hecht then have to move down that far to get rid of his contract it's bad, but not that bad.

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Old
06-21-2009, 07:48 PM
  #41
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Originally Posted by Homesick View Post
For a useless stat you sure do talk about +/- quite a bit to try and prove your point. But all other stats are rediculous....
EDIT: Grebeshkov led his team in +/- so he must be a franchise defenseman
I don't think Edmonton would trade them for 13th overall when according to scouts/media/league sources the talent level after the top 7 sharply declines. What are the odds that any player taken 13th or later become as good as Gilbert or Grebeshkov.
Tanguay, and Cammalleri were both being run out of their respected organizations, both coming of poor seasons, and both had one year left until unrestricted free agency.


Stats are not always useful, but, if you put them in context, they can help paint a picture. If Tanguay is LEADING the team in plus/minus while playing tough minutes on the first line, then he's clearly doing a bang up job. I don't know anything about Grebs' situation last year, so I can't comment on that. And nobody said anything about him being a franchise defenceman.

Anyways, I don't need any stats to prove that Tanguay is one of the best ES players on the Canadiens. Hell, I won't even use any stats this time. Tanguay is the best ES forward on the Habs. Period.

Calling Tanguay one-dimensional is plan and simple wrong. Funny how anyone who plays for the Habs is useless, soft or a one-way player. But I've seen plenty of Tanguay, and I know you're wrong. You clearly have a very narrow (and not useful) definition of what a good two-way player is anyways. Being good defensively isn't only about blocking shots and playing the PK. It goes far beyond that, and I'd really like you to point out what you think Tanguay does to help the opposing team score. What kind of mistakes does he make?

Oh, and just remember a final point about shot blocking: seeing as how Tanguay doesn't play on the PK (because the Habs want him to play heavy PP/ES minutes - NOT because he can't), he won't be blocking a lot of shots. How is a LW at ES or on the PP going to be blocking shots. It's not like he's a defenceman.

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Old
06-21-2009, 08:13 PM
  #42
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I wouldn't move Gaustad for any offer that someone would reasonably put together. Goose is a huge part of the Sabres moving forward and is someone they need to build off of.

And to whoever mentioned it: Kubina's that much of a hitter?

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Old
06-21-2009, 08:21 PM
  #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oilers24 View Post
A good trade between these 2 eams would be

To Edm
Drew Stafford
Paul Gaustad

To Buffalo
Tom Gilbert
Rob Schremp
3rd rd pick

Buffalo gets their puck mover they need, along with a ahl foward who has offensive potetnial, from close to buffalo, along with a draft pick.

Oilers get a gritty kid to play in their top 6 and a big physical centre.
Gaustad isn't going anywhere.

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Old
06-21-2009, 08:59 PM
  #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Homesick View Post
Most forwards that are considered "wonderful two-way players" usually kill penalties, block shots, or have a high number of take aways. Since he doesnt play physical, avoids traffic, isn't known to be one of those character leader guys; I will stand by my statement that he is a soft one dimensional player.
When Tanguay played for the Flames he was actually fairly defensively responsible and he even saw PK time. That I believe was one of the reasons he didn't like Keenan, because he was cutting his PP time and had him killing penalties. His passing is his forte and he isn't going to make the costly giveaways or turnovers.

The traits you outlined are all more suited for a 3rd line player. Why should the "star" player be counted on to be overly physical and to block shots. I think that is one of the reasons the Oil overpaid for Shawn Horcoff. He's not quite the "star" player but he is a phenomenal 3rd line centreman.

That is one of the biggest flaws with the Oilers (in my opinion; no disrespect intended). They have alot of 3rd line energy players and defensive minded forwards and lack any "star" players. Again, also in my opinion, I see Hemsky and Tanguay as being approximately equal. Do you expect Hemsky to be blocking shots? Or even moreso do you want Hemsky blocking shots.

Just my opinion though, nomintention to bash/troll the Oilers.

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Old
06-22-2009, 07:46 AM
  #45
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Tanguay's downfall with the Flames was centered around the FACT that he was a very good defensive player. Keenan used him in a 2nd/3rd line role rather than in a first line offensive role which Tanguay was used to.

Anyone who makes a statement that Tanguay is one-dimensional obviously has never seen him play.

With that said i doubt the Sabres make a trade with the Oil unless they are able to fleece em. I'm sure Darcy Regehr is still pissed about Lowe driving up the price for Vanek with his attempt to steal him as a RFA.

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Old
06-22-2009, 09:21 AM
  #46
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Originally Posted by Bryanbryoil View Post
Yes, they are young puck moving d-men that are entering their primes. Buffalo is BADLY in need of this type of a player and they wouldn't have to take away from their forward core to get this deal done. If we had to sweeten the pot a little, that's fine.

Buffalo has a lot of young defenseman coming up, including a couple of puck movers. They don't need this type of player badly, in fact, they don't really need it at all. They need a 6'5 defenseman that can kick ass.

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06-22-2009, 09:23 AM
  #47
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Regarding the original proposal... why would Edmonton want Hecht back? They went down that road before.

As for some of the counter-proposals... why would two teams that both are trying to get bigger try and trade what they don't have between one another? It doesn't look like they are a good fit.

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Old
06-22-2009, 09:29 AM
  #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oilers24 View Post
A good trade between these 2 eams would be

To Edm
Drew Stafford
Paul Gaustad

To Buffalo
Tom Gilbert
Rob Schremp
3rd rd pick

Buffalo gets their puck mover they need, along with a ahl foward who has offensive potetnial, from close to buffalo, along with a draft pick.

Oilers get a gritty kid to play in their top 6 and a big physical centre.
Absolutely no way Buffalo does this deal. No way.

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Old
06-22-2009, 09:38 AM
  #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chainshot View Post
Regarding the original proposal... why would Edmonton want Hecht back? They went down that road before.

As for some of the counter-proposals... why would two teams that both are trying to get bigger try and trade what they don't have between one another? It doesn't look like they are a good fit.
agreed. and also remember that Regier probably isn't ready to play ball with Edm after the Vanek situation.

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Old
06-22-2009, 10:34 AM
  #50
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agreed. and also remember that Regier probably isn't ready to play ball with Edm after the Vanek situation.
You mean like he did when he traded Kotalik here at the deadline?

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