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Balsillie/Phoenix Part VIII: It's dead, Jim

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Old
06-24-2009, 02:25 PM
  #976
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Originally Posted by bbud View Post
How long do we have to pay off GBs bad plan of expansion at this rate teams making money will get handcuffed the economic issues are not improving what happens when PHO has sucked up 50 million and still moves will GB be approving all other owners claims for that debt to be paid back, or is it straight out welfare payments for bad markets
I guess the answer would be until his bosses, the 30 NHL team owners, agree with your assessment that the expansion plan is bad.

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06-24-2009, 02:29 PM
  #977
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Originally Posted by Art.Vandelay View Post
Normally in bankruptcy, you are correct. All debts are basically wiped out. However, I read something interesting in a Globe arcticle:

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/sport...rticle1192787/



The part I noticed is the "assumption of other debt". Outside of Moyes, there' not a ton of money owed to unsecured creditors. I wonder if Reinsdorf would assume this debt in order to gain the approval of the creditors committee?
My guess would be it's assumption of existing $ owed on contracts that would be assumed in the purchase. I suppose it's also possible that he could assume the NHL advances, which would leave more $ available for the other creditors (that's a fun one to think through the math).

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06-24-2009, 02:44 PM
  #978
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Originally Posted by LadyStanley View Post
Not surprisingly, representatives (past or present) of four of the six Canadian teams - people who would actually know, unlike some random message board posters - have now publicly supported Bettman's stance, and the other two probably will at some point as well.

These guys (Hotchkiss, Nichols, Bryden, now Burke) have a lot better handle on the situation than your random "buttman hates canada" message board poster.

Also interesting is some indication that SOME of the Canadian media is tiring of Balsillie's song and dance. Simmons for example, who has been mostly supportive of Balsillie's efforts, recently characterized his more recent attempts as "extremely arrogant". When coupled with more objective media types such as Eric Francis who were never suckered into the media hype in the first place, perhaps the bloom is finally withering.

I have also been struck by the difference in tone of the two sides. Balsillie and Rodier are like carnival promoters. We have press conferences, public rallies, dedicated web sites, all the glitz, glamour, 'razzle dazzle' (they still remind me of the lawyer in 'Chicago') they can think of in order to turn this into as big a circus as possible. Bettman and the NHL, on the other hand, have been utterly professional, quietly handling everything as it comes (and seems to be paying off as they win decision after decision). Very interesting contrast.

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06-24-2009, 02:49 PM
  #979
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Originally Posted by mouser View Post
My guess would be it's assumption of existing $ owed on contracts that would be assumed in the purchase. I suppose it's also possible that he could assume the NHL advances, which would leave more $ available for the other creditors (that's a fun one to think through the math).
"Fun" and "math"??? Scary. I think you need to get out more.

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06-24-2009, 03:58 PM
  #980
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Originally Posted by Crazy_Ike View Post
I have also been struck by the difference in tone of the two sides. Balsillie and Rodier are like carnival promoters. We have press conferences, public rallies, dedicated web sites, all the glitz, glamour, 'razzle dazzle' (they still remind me of the lawyer in 'Chicago') they can think of in order to turn this into as big a circus as possible. Bettman and the NHL, on the other hand, have been utterly professional, quietly handling everything as it comes (and seems to be paying off as they win decision after decision). Very interesting contrast.
Billy Flynn (played by Richard Gere in the movie; Jerry Orbach in the original Broadway cast)

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06-24-2009, 04:25 PM
  #981
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http://twitter.com/brahmresnik/statuses/2299472814
"More and more coming to believe Reinsdorf's will be only offer. Why? He has inside track on deal w/Glendale."

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06-24-2009, 04:31 PM
  #982
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Originally Posted by Crazy_Ike View Post
I have also been struck by the difference in tone of the two sides. Balsillie and Rodier are like carnival promoters. We have press conferences, public rallies, dedicated web sites, all the glitz, glamour, 'razzle dazzle' (they still remind me of the lawyer in 'Chicago') they can think of in order to turn this into as big a circus as possible. Bettman and the NHL, on the other hand, have been utterly professional, quietly handling everything as it comes (and seems to be paying off as they win decision after decision). Very interesting contrast.
I have never seen attorneys hold press conferences (actually multiple) to discuss their legal position in a pending motion before the Judge rules. But that's exactly what Rodier and Freeman have done. And when Rodier loses on a failry major issue his response suddenly becomes, 'well that's exactly what we expected the Judge to do' Simply bizarre. He just can't escape his own narcism. But I guess this is more about the P.R. campaign than anything.


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06-24-2009, 04:38 PM
  #983
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Originally Posted by LadyStanley View Post
http://twitter.com/brahmresnik/statuses/2299472814
"More and more coming to believe Reinsdorf's will be only offer. Why? He has inside track on deal w/Glendale."
Wow, I wonder what happened to the other 4, considering that is what the NHL claimed - when the JB case was going on?

I am not a bankruptcy attorney, but I could have sworn that one of the NHL's counterpoints was that they had 5 people (all of which who were going to be 'loyal' to PHX) that were chomping at the bit to bid on this, when it went to a NHL run auction.

The judge still has to order the sale, either way... I doubt that the NHL will just have one bid when it is all done. If they do, it is unfathomably dumb to do so.

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06-24-2009, 04:57 PM
  #984
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http://vyous.com/sports/nhl/coyotes/...ona-daily-star
Tuscon, AZ facing the loss of city-built sports facility tenants (MLB spring training) and hopes they don't have to experience the lessons of Glendale.
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Is it wise for cities to spend millions of public dollars to build facilities for sports teams that could be great economic engines or could decide to move and leave the city with vacant facilities.

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06-24-2009, 05:10 PM
  #985
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Originally Posted by LadyStanley View Post
http://vyous.com/sports/nhl/coyotes/...ona-daily-star
Tuscon, AZ facing the loss of city-built sports facility tenants (MLB spring training) and hopes they don't have to experience the lessons of Glendale.
A huge distinction is that the lease allowed those teams to leave. Here, it did not.

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06-24-2009, 05:34 PM
  #986
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Originally Posted by Harpoon Pete View Post
Wow, I wonder what happened to the other 4, considering that is what the NHL claimed - when the JB case was going on?

I am not a bankruptcy attorney, but I could have sworn that one of the NHL's counterpoints was that they had 5 people (all of which who were going to be 'loyal' to PHX) that were chomping at the bit to bid on this, when it went to a NHL run auction.
Actually, the NHL claimed no such thing. They set forth in their sworn declarations that they had received four sets of preliminary background applications, which are the initial documents to be submitted before the transaction is to be considered. THe NHL made no representations that they had submitted a bid of any kind.

Quote:
The judge still has to order the sale, either way... I doubt that the NHL will just have one bid when it is all done. If they do, it is unfathomably dumb to do so.
The NHL has no control over which or how many parties submit bids. so I am not sure I follow you as to how it could be "unfathomably dumb".

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06-24-2009, 05:52 PM
  #987
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Originally Posted by mouser View Post
My guess would be it's assumption of existing $ owed on contracts that would be assumed in the purchase. I suppose it's also possible that he could assume the NHL advances, which would leave more $ available for the other creditors (that's a fun one to think through the math).
I probably should have mentioned this a few days ago, but in the NHL's statement of position filed a few days ago for the Monday hearing, they stated as follows:
Quote:
"Moreover, an astute local buyer might typically assume some or all of the Club's pre-petition payables in order to earn goodwill with the vendors that it will continue to utilize going forward, which would both benefit the pre-petition creditors generally ..."
This is a fairly straightforward technique.

As an aside, and i have alluded to this before (but it escaped the notice of most), there is the small matter of something else regarding Moyes which is included in the rest of the above sentence:

" ... and reduce the likelihood that the NHL would need to call on Mr. Moyes' personal guarantee for the benefit of trade creditors."

As I have mentioned before, Moyes has signed a personal guarantee in the amount of $30 million in favour of the NHL when he acquired the franchise. They may call on it in respect of Moyes having breached his Consent Agreement, which he most assuredly has (through failing to maintain adequate capitalization of the franchise, in addition to his shenanigans with JB).

The idea that somehow he thought that he would get anything from this when all is said and done is beyond stunning. I can't wait to hear his defense when the NHL sues him later on his personal guarantee, which they are very likely to do later on.

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06-24-2009, 06:04 PM
  #988
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I'm confused by mouser's statement above, which seems a bit different from your explanation, below. There were (a) loans to the team, worth $____ million; and (b) advances on revenue sharing, worth (i) $____ revenue redistribution in order to comply with CBA, subject to benchmarks (and payable at 75% or 60% level); and (ii) $_____ league-shared revenue.



Do you know the amount of this advance (and was this part of the figure mouser cited above)?
The advances were:

1. $2 mil on August 28, 2008;

2. $4 mil on October 10, 2008.

They were deducted from the Coyote 07-08 revenue sharing ($10.4 mil out of a potential ~ $14 mil) on October 24, 2008


Quote:
$23.6 million, inclusive of pt 1 & 2 above?
No, it is not inclusive. The $23.6 came after.

Quote:
Secondly, when you say "advanced" for the $13.4 million, do you mean an advance on the revenue sharing monies, or a separate loan that has nothing to do with revenue sharing?
In regards to the $13.4 mil, that was a secured loan made before the bankruptcy petition. It has nothing to do with revenue sharing (they had seemingly exhausted that potential revenue source - hence the ned for the secured loan).

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06-24-2009, 06:55 PM
  #989
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"Fun" and "math"??? Scary. I think you need to get out more.
Hey! Watch what you say! I can put up with a lot around here but this post pretty much crosses the line!!!!

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06-24-2009, 06:56 PM
  #990
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Originally Posted by Harpoon Pete View Post
Wow, I wonder what happened to the other 4, considering that is what the NHL claimed - when the JB case was going on?

I am not a bankruptcy attorney, but I could have sworn that one of the NHL's counterpoints was that they had 5 people (all of which who were going to be 'loyal' to PHX) that were chomping at the bit to bid on this, when it went to a NHL run auction.

The judge still has to order the sale, either way... I doubt that the NHL will just have one bid when it is all done. If they do, it is unfathomably dumb to do so.
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Originally Posted by GSC2k2 View Post
Actually, the NHL claimed no such thing. They set forth in their sworn declarations that they had received four sets of preliminary background applications, which are the initial documents to be submitted before the transaction is to be considered. THe NHL made no representations that they had submitted a bid of any kind.

The NHL has no control over which or how many parties submit bids. so I am not sure I follow you as to how it could be "unfathomably dumb".

I believe the term that was used was "expressions of interest." Otherwise somebody would be guilty of perjury, as some of us were reminded.

 
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06-24-2009, 07:00 PM
  #991
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GC has the exact numbers, I was running off some approximate figures. The $23.6m is advances on $ due to be paid to the team by the league in October. This presumably includes revenue sharing, escrow revenue sharing, normal escrow distribution, and centrally generated league revenue distributions (if there are any?).

To my understanding, the additional $13.4m figure has been described by the league as a pure loan in the legal filings.

My guesstimates on the escrow distributions are $4m-$5m in escrow revenue sharing for Phoenix (based on their payroll level below the midpoint) and $5m in league-wide per team escrow distribution.
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Originally Posted by GSC2k2 View Post
The advances were:

1. $2 mil on August 28, 2008;

2. $4 mil on October 10, 2008.

They were deducted from the Coyote 07-08 revenue sharing ($10.4 mil out of a potential ~ $14 mil) on October 24, 2008

No, it is not inclusive. The $23.6 came after.

In regards to the $13.4 mil, that was a secured loan made before the bankruptcy petition. It has nothing to do with revenue sharing (they had seemingly exhausted that potential revenue source - hence the ned for the secured loan).
Thank you, gents. Advances on revenue sharing and advances a.k.a. loans, can get a bit confusing.

 
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06-24-2009, 07:11 PM
  #992
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I believe the term that was used was "expressions of interest." Otherwise somebody would be guilty of perjury, as some of us were reminded.
what would be the thinking of Judge Baum should the only potential buyer be the one that the NHL had lined up the day before the bankruptcy was filed, and that he also may potentially bid lower.

Does it all come down to Moyes' equity versus debt argument

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06-24-2009, 08:11 PM
  #993
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http://espn.go.com/chicago/columns/b...&name=cimaglia
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Some question why Reinsdorf would want to buy an NHL team buried in red ink and located in the desert. A shrewd businessman might consider the Phoenix Coyotes as buying at a discount.
Suggests renegotiate lease agreement, find cheaper coach (or negotiate lower deal) and "hire a John McDonough clone and start a new marketing campaign. "

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06-24-2009, 09:03 PM
  #994
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I believe the term that was used was "expressions of interest." Otherwise somebody would be guilty of perjury, as some of us were reminded.
Ok, that is where I got confused. Thanks for the correction, GC.

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06-24-2009, 09:28 PM
  #995
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The idea of Reinsdorf getting an exit strategy is interesting. From Glendale and the NHL?

Does the bankruptcy hearing actually help Reinsdorf get a better deal knowing the parameters he is bidding against?

If Gretzky takes a pay cut to a million dollars a year or so, would he still be considered an owner/alternate governor in this case? Would he be accepted as one?

It is hard to think that Balsillie thought he was going win this case as his original agreement stated. It sure appeared a bit of an orchastrated public campaign more designed for probing and PR than winning. Perhaps, on that level Balsillie did win, as in the public mindset hamilton appears to be viewed a little differently now, perhaps more legitamately as a potential NHL city that should be in the minds of future expansion planners? And Phoenix is one of the biggest markets in the States, and if the current worldwide financial crisis that hit Phoenix especially hard abates at the same time as Phoenixes young stars start emerging, it seems hard to believe someone wont bet on that proven sports market succeeding by buying the team there.

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06-24-2009, 09:43 PM
  #996
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It is hard to think that Balsillie thought he was going win this case as his original agreement stated. It sure appeared a bit of an orchastrated public campaign more designed for probing and PR than winning. Perhaps, on that level Balsillie did win, as in the public mindset hamilton appears to be viewed a little differently now, perhaps more legitamately as a potential NHL city that should be in the minds of future expansion planners?
Hamilton may have gained legitimacy, but Balsillie has lost most of his. There is no way to consider that a win.

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06-24-2009, 11:51 PM
  #997
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http://www.theglobeandmail.com/sport...rticle1196051/
Canadiens president Bolvin:
Quote:
I'm not sure that we will have to keep the Phoenix Coyotes afloat for another season, I'm not sure that we did last season either, the monies that were advanced to the Coyotes are, to my understanding, secured. We have full trust in the people at the league to manage all the franchise situations, he said.

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06-25-2009, 12:18 AM
  #998
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Time for next thread: http://hfboards.com/showthread.php?p=20043203

Please continue conversations there.

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