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(Goalie coach) Reggie Lemelin fired!

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06-25-2009, 03:17 PM
  #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jester View Post
See, but I'm baffled why Lemelin has taken such a beating...our goaltending, despite never really investing in the position, has been pretty damn good over the years. Elite? No, but we weren't paying for elite goaltending. Biron did BETTER here than his career numbers suggested he would. It's true, you can look it up.

Now we've let Lemelin go, and fine, bring in new eyes and ears...but we've replaced him with a guy who has a simply horrendous track record since the lockout.

Yay...?
I'm sorry, but the puck handling and in and out of the crease decisions by Flyers goalies for more than a dozen years to be shows a need for instructional change... Add to that the inconsistencies over the years, whether it be Biron or Nitty or Esche, where they play like World beaters for periods only to hit a wall thereafter... I'm sorry, but I just don't see the positives signs coming from Reggie's trusts.

To me, much of the problems are more habitual rather than innate talent... But, hey, that's just me.

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06-25-2009, 03:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jester View Post
See, but I'm baffled why Lemelin has taken such a beating...our goaltending, despite never really investing in the position, has been pretty damn good over the years. Elite? No, but we weren't paying for elite goaltending. Biron did BETTER here than his career numbers suggested he would. It's true, you can look it up.

Now we've let Lemelin go, and fine, bring in new eyes and ears...but we've replaced him with a guy who has a simply horrendous track record since the lockout.

Yay...?
Agreed on the lukewarm enthusiasm for this. I'm not upset that Lemelin is gone but the guy we hired doesn't have a particularly exciting resume.

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06-25-2009, 03:28 PM
  #53
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Originally Posted by Mr Oysterhead View Post
Agreed on the lukewarm enthusiasm for this. I'm not upset that Lemelin is gone but the guy we hired doesn't have a particularly exciting resume.
Just listening to a conference call with Homer, he was asked if they signed Reese and he said he can't comment on that. So it's not done or not happening.

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06-25-2009, 03:28 PM
  #54
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I think it was time for Lemelin to go simply because I've never seen a goalie show the slightest sign of improving under him, so I'm not really sure what job he was doing.

However, the replacement seems less than thrilling.

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06-25-2009, 03:28 PM
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Originally Posted by MiamiScreamingEagles View Post
It is meaningless, but out of curiosity I checked FlyersHistory to see Reese's record against the Flyers: his teams were outscored 24-3 in his first four appearances. He had six appearances total.
No surprises there.

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06-25-2009, 04:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Dig Out Your Soul View Post
Just listening to a conference call with Homer, he was asked if they signed Reese and he said he can't comment on that. So it's not done or not happening.
To me all that means is that he can't comment on it at this time... Had he said "No", or that he is not aware of that happening, then I would say it might not be the case, or won't be the case.

I'd say that it not being done is a fair statement though.

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06-25-2009, 04:03 PM
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Originally Posted by FlyersJunky View Post
I'm sorry, but the puck handling and in and out of the crease decisions by Flyers goalies for more than a dozen years to be shows a need for instructional change... Add to that the inconsistencies over the years, whether it be Biron or Nitty or Esche, where they play like World beaters for periods only to hit a wall thereafter... I'm sorry, but I just don't see the positives signs coming from Reggie's trusts.

To me, much of the problems are more habitual rather than innate talent... But, hey, that's just me.
I'm not saying Lemelin was anything special, but I don't see anything egregious going on with our goaltending either. I don't think you're going to turn too many goalies into good puckhandlers by the time they're at the professional level, especially when you're talking about guys usually much further along in their career than straight out of juniors here. You're either comfortable with going out there and playing the puck or your not at that point.

As to the decisions out of the crease...I have a hard time believing that falls all on the goalie coach either. It isn't as if the behind the net decisions of our D are without regular failures. We just have sucked as a team in moving the puck around our zone and out.

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06-25-2009, 04:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jester View Post
I'm not saying Lemelin was anything special, but I don't see anything egregious going on with our goaltending either. I don't think you're going to turn too many goalies into good puckhandlers by the time they're at the professional level, especially when you're talking about guys usually much further along in their career than straight out of juniors here. You're either comfortable with going out there and playing the puck or your not at that point.

As to the decisions out of the crease...I have a hard time believing that falls all on the goalie coach either. It isn't as if the behind the net decisions of our D are without regular failures. We just have sucked as a team in moving the puck around our zone and out.
More than the natural or developed puck handling ability, or lack thereof, what bothers me most is that think that they are better than they are... Ultimately they often screw up... The decisions to handle the puck or leave it for their D-man, or give it to them, is even more bothersome to me than the behind the net decisions.

I believe the instructional part comes into having the goalies playing within their limits... I am not looking into better puck handling as much as I'm annoyed by when and how they choose to do it. Call it a pet peeve of mine, if you will... but I cringe when Marty leaves the net to play the puck. There have been some nasty bad plays the last couple years.

I just feel that the Flyers can do better than Reggie... I'm willing to give whomever Homer & Co. chooses/chose a chance.

And yes, they have to improve getting the puck out from deep... which to me is a job spanning all the coaches.

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06-25-2009, 04:21 PM
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Don't let the door hit you on the way out, Reggie.

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06-25-2009, 04:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyHigh View Post
I think it was time for Lemelin to go simply because I've never seen a goalie show the slightest sign of improving under him, so I'm not really sure what job he was doing.

However, the replacement seems less than thrilling.
First on the replacement, some guys just know how to coach better than better players. I have no idea what Jeff Reese did before this to warrant the job, but I guess we'll have to see.

Secondly, on your first point, when you have Niittymaki who said last year that he doesn't know what else to do to control his rebounds, that's kind of an indictment of the coach. When Niittymaki cam over, rebound control was a big strength for him. This continued in the AHL. In the NHL it regressed very noticeably. And this isn't any different than those who preceded him (such as Esche).

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06-25-2009, 04:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by go kim johnsson 514 View Post
First on the replacement, some guys just know how to coach better than better players. I have no idea what Jeff Reese did before this to warrant the job, but I guess we'll have to see.

Secondly, on your first point, when you have Niittymaki who said last year that he doesn't know what else to do to control his rebounds, that's kind of an indictment of the coach. When Niittymaki cam over, rebound control was a big strength for him. This continued in the AHL. In the NHL it regressed very noticeably. And this isn't any different than those who preceded him (such as Esche).
Well I mean, just the young guys I can think of..

Nitty - Same problems have been there for the past 3 years, no improvement.

Esche - Maybe a tough example, but again, absolutely no improvement.

Boucher - Never had the mental game, but Lemelin (or anybody else) certainly didn't help.

I should add that it goes without saying that none of our veteran goalies have come close to improving under him either.

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06-25-2009, 05:20 PM
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It's just that our backup goalie always ends up supplanting the the starter. Almost every season. I didn't look it up, but I believe the same goalie hasn't been the starter in the playoffs 3 years in a row, since Ron Hextall -- the first stint. 3 years in a row. Not only did this team not have the confidence in either the coaches or the player to develop into an absolute #1 after more than 2 seasons, but they had the same goalie coach to oversee almost every one of them. They always went out and found another goalie.

Good riddance.

If Emery becomes a star, we'll know unequivocally where SOME of those problems laid.


This is the 2nd year in a row that Holmgren has gotten rid of someone Clarke hired and kept for a long time at his position. Last year it was Hammarstrom being removed as the head scout in Europe (for however long it was), now it's the goalie coach of 14 years.

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06-25-2009, 05:23 PM
  #63
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Originally Posted by go kim johnsson 514 View Post
If Emery becomes a star, we'll know unequivocally where SOME of those problems laid.
It'd be good evidence but I think the majority of the credit would go to Ray, not the goalie coach (which is deserved)

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06-25-2009, 05:31 PM
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Well there goes part of the problem. A minuscule part, but still part of our struggles if you ask me.

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06-25-2009, 07:43 PM
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Flyers decline to bring back Goalie coach

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/hocke...97149400_x.htm

Quote:
PHILADELPHIA (AP) — The Philadelphia Flyers have not renewed the contract of longtime goalie coach Reggie Lemelin.

Lemelin, a former NHL goalie, had been with the Flyers since the 1993-94 season. Flyers general manager Paul Holmgren says the move was made because it was time for a change.

Holmgren did not say Thursday who will replace Lemelin.

Holmgren also said he's not optimistic the Flyers will move up or down in the first round of the NHL draft. The Flyers have the 21st pick.

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06-25-2009, 07:49 PM
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thank god

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06-25-2009, 07:51 PM
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About time.

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06-25-2009, 08:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by go kim johnsson 514 View Post
First on the replacement, some guys just know how to coach better than better players. I have no idea what Jeff Reese did before this to warrant the job, but I guess we'll have to see.
My reasons for liking Jeff Reese are as follows:

He made John Grahame look like a good goalie. Seriously, John Grahame sucked, but some how or another, Reese got through to him and helped him have the best seasons of his career.

Jeff Reese also helped Mike Smith improve. When Smith came over from Dallas, his save percentage was .899. Smith improved to .916 this past year.

Nikolai Khabibulin also had a career year under Reese. Nikolai's playoff run the year they won the Stanley Cup was also very impressive. Once again, Jeff Reese was the coach.

Reese also made guys like Marc Denis and Johan Holmqvist look like adequate goaltenders.

Reese did a good job with the guys he was given.

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06-25-2009, 09:08 PM
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Actually, puck handling does not fall under a goalie coaching problem. That is something a goalie learns early and works on himself, much like a winger working on a wrist shot. It's really not something that can be learned later in life. Also, the lie and curve of a stick that can be great for puckhandling can be really bad for a butterfly style goalie savewise. It really doesn't fall under the job description of a goalie coach.

However, biron's completely horrendous shootout technique. Nitty's inability to angle his pad at least some to the corner instead of square back out into play. And esche's really poor positioning on sharp angle shots, he was often in a low crouch playing the cross crease pass leaving the top half of the net open, which is a no-no. These are all correctable problems that fall under the job description of a goalie coach to fix, parts of my game that when I do get to go to an adult goalie camp periodically, they will spot, have video and go over how to correct and the proper technique. And at this stage of the game for a pro, alot of times its just frequent minor tweaks than can prevent the long bad periods.

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06-25-2009, 09:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BobbyClarkeFan16 View Post
My reasons for liking Jeff Reese are as follows:

He made John Grahame look like a good goalie. Seriously, John Grahame sucked, but some how or another, Reese got through to him and helped him have the best seasons of his career.

Jeff Reese also helped Mike Smith improve. When Smith came over from Dallas, his save percentage was .899. Smith improved to .916 this past year.

Nikolai Khabibulin also had a career year under Reese. Nikolai's playoff run the year they won the Stanley Cup was also very impressive. Once again, Jeff Reese was the coach.

Reese also made guys like Marc Denis and Johan Holmqvist look like adequate goaltenders.

Reese did a good job with the guys he was given.
Seriously...what league have you been watching...they weren't adequate down there, they've had the WORST GOALTENDING IN THE LEAGUE since the lockout.

He may be a great coach, but there is nothing to celebrate down in TB about the goaltending since Khabi left.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kicksave27 View Post
Actually, puck handling does not fall under a goalie coaching problem. That is something a goalie learns early and works on himself, much like a winger working on a wrist shot. It's really not something that can be learned later in life. Also, the lie and curve of a stick that can be great for puckhandling can be really bad for a butterfly style goalie savewise. It really doesn't fall under the job description of a goalie coach.

However, biron's completely horrendous shootout technique. Nitty's inability to angle his pad at least some to the corner instead of square back out into play. And esche's really poor positioning on sharp angle shots, he was often in a low crouch playing the cross crease pass leaving the top half of the net open, which is a no-no. These are all correctable problems that fall under the job description of a goalie coach to fix, parts of my game that when I do get to go to an adult goalie camp periodically, they will spot, have video and go over how to correct and the proper technique. And at this stage of the game for a pro, alot of times its just frequent minor tweaks than can prevent the long bad periods.
If it makes you feel better, Emery was terrible at shootouts in Ottawa.

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06-25-2009, 10:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jester View Post
Seriously...what league have you been watching...they weren't adequate down there, they've had the WORST GOALTENDING IN THE LEAGUE since the lockout.

He may be a great coach, but there is nothing to celebrate down in TB about the goaltending since Khabi left.



If it makes you feel better, Emery was terrible at shootouts in Ottawa.
I think I'm not being clear here. I know Tampa Bay had the worst goaltending in the league. Fact is, Reese helped make the guys look better than they really were. That's what I'm trying to get across. I think the goaltending would have been much, much, much worse if it weren't for Reese. I don't blame him for the goaltending issues in Tampa Bay at all. When you're asked to make chicken salad out of chicken ****, it's pretty damned near impossible. Statistically, they could have been much, much, much worse.


Last edited by GKJ: 06-26-2009 at 07:32 AM. Reason: filter
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06-25-2009, 10:27 PM
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This comes 2 years to late......2 years ago when we acquired Marty my son went to Mitch Korns goalie camp in new York and I spoke with Mitch about coming to Philly to work with marty and he told me that he had approached the flyers and they said they were loyal to reggie so NO Thanks. Mitch Korn is the Predators goalie coach and has trained Thomas Vokoun, pekka Rinne, Chris Mason and Dan Ellis just to name some recent goalie. In his past he was the Sabres goalie coach with hasek, a young bironand has several other goalie that he trains without being affliated with their team. I only wish we made this change then.....the man is a great coach.

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06-25-2009, 10:51 PM
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Hey, I like Emery already!

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06-25-2009, 11:52 PM
  #74
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Originally Posted by BobbyClarkeFan16 View Post
I think I'm not being clear here. I know Tampa Bay had the worst goaltending in the league. Fact is, Reese helped make the guys look better than they really were. That's what I'm trying to get across. I think the goaltending would have been much, much, much worse if it weren't for Reese. I don't blame him for the goaltending issues in Tampa Bay at all. When you're asked to make chicken salad out of chicken s'h'i't, it's pretty damned near impossible. Statistically, they could have been much, much, much worse.
Well, the two seasons Marc Denis spent there were the worst of his career, and got him punted out of the league.

I agree, the talent wasn't any good there, but I'm not sure you deserve credit for taking bad talent and ... getting bad results. They literally couldn't have been any worse, they were getting the worst goaltending in the league.

None of that means he won't do a good job here, but Lemelin was given alright but not great talent on the whole, and, generally, got good to great production out of our goaltenders...yet he gets vilified? I'm not saying Lemelin is anything special, but I don't think pointing at TB is really something Reese should be all that proud of the moment Khabi left town.

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06-26-2009, 12:29 AM
  #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kicksave27 View Post
Actually, puck handling does not fall under a goalie coaching problem. That is something a goalie learns early and works on himself, much like a winger working on a wrist shot. It's really not something that can be learned later in life. Also, the lie and curve of a stick that can be great for puckhandling can be really bad for a butterfly style goalie savewise. It really doesn't fall under the job description of a goalie coach.
I disagree in part. The goalie coach's job is to make his goalies better. If that means coming up with some drills , tasks or whatever to get his goalies more comfortable handling the puck, then that is what he should do. It would take a really passive (or lazy/stupid) coach, especially a position-specific one, to not notice and ensure the correction of a deficiency as glaring as their puck handling.

FWIW, I do agree that Biron and Niitymaki don't get a pass on not improving. Your coaches foot not being in your ass about something doesn't relieve you of the responsibility of fixing it.

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