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Brian Boyle Traded to the Rangers for a 3rd Round Pick in 2010

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Old
06-27-2009, 05:22 PM
  #76
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Originally Posted by ReggieMoto View Post
Except that Steckel is an everyday player for the Caps. Perhaps not elite, but an everyday NHLer whereas BB isn't. That's still quite the accomplishment.

something boyle will never be....for the Rags or anyone else.

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06-27-2009, 05:39 PM
  #77
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Except that Steckel is an everyday player for the Caps. Perhaps not elite, but an everyday NHLer whereas BB isn't. That's still quite the accomplishment.
I think BB will be a decent 3rd line center in NY. I just hate that a draft year like 2003 (maybe the deepest ever) we had 4 top 50 picks and we came up with 1 roster player. When I look at Anaheim, Nashville and other teams

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06-27-2009, 05:49 PM
  #78
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Look .. Another Brazilian! hehe
Ive been around for a while now. First time I read a post from you a sent you a PM but you never responded to it so I thought that you were a Robyn Regher fan.

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06-27-2009, 05:54 PM
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I think BB will be a decent 3rd line center in NY. I just hate that a draft year like 2003 (maybe the deepest ever) we had 4 top 50 picks and we came up with 1 roster player. When I look at Anaheim, Nashville and other teams


This!

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06-27-2009, 07:06 PM
  #80
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I think BB will be a decent 3rd line center in NY. I just hate that a draft year like 2003 (maybe the deepest ever) we had 4 top 50 picks and we came up with 1 roster player. When I look at Anaheim, Nashville and other teams
The 2003 draft is the weekend that cost Dave Taylor his job.

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06-27-2009, 07:35 PM
  #81
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Well, I think it was development in the sense that there was not a universal message being hammered into all Kings property, regardless of what league they are playing in, like DL has implemented.

But more truly I think that Al Murray and DT's staff didn't seem to do their homework on who these kids were as individuals. The character assessment was poor. DT seemed to draft on skill and potential MUCH more than for hockey sense and leadership qualities, which are the two things DL and crew seem to care about above all else.
Good points. I pretty much guarantee that DL wouldn't have taken Boyle, Pushkarev or Corvo among others. I'd love to ask him what he'd done had he had those 3 firsts in 2003.

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06-27-2009, 07:40 PM
  #82
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Two out of Three Ain't Bad...

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Good points. I pretty much guarantee that DL wouldn't have taken Boyle, Pushkarev or Corvo among others. I'd love to ask him what he'd done had he had those 3 firsts in 2003.
Boyle (Check) Pushkarev (Check) but Corvo was kinda a criminal type right up good ol DL's alley he loves him some criminals!

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06-27-2009, 07:44 PM
  #83
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We weren't the only ones fooled. People here at HFBoards had our prospect pool rated very high after that draft.
When I said this a few weeks ago, I was villified. K17 must just be more loveable....

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06-27-2009, 08:24 PM
  #84
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Good points. I pretty much guarantee that DL wouldn't have taken Boyle, Pushkarev or Corvo among others. I'd love to ask him what he'd done had he had those 3 firsts in 2003.
True....but I can almost guarantee he wouldn't have drafted Frolov, Brown or Kopitar either....so you take the good with the bad.

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06-27-2009, 08:33 PM
  #85
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True....but I can almost guarantee he wouldn't have drafted Frolov, Brown or Kopitar either....so you take the good with the bad.
Probably not Frolov or Kopitar, but Brown? I think DL would still seriously look at Brown in that draft. Sure, he might take Seabrook or Getzlaf or Burns instead, but its not like those would be bad picks.

Yes we love Frolov and Kopitar, but would we not be better if DL had drafted Williams over Frolov, M. Staal over Kopitar (the only player in the next ten picks I could see DL choosing over Kopitar at that 11 spot) , Seabrook or Getzlaf over Brown ALONG WITH Perry or Eaves or Weber or Bergeron or Erikkson over Boyle and Tambellini and Pushkarev. This is not even considering his late round picks.

Sure we may not have Frolov or Kopitar or Brown, but looking at those drafts, and the kinds of players DL drafts over the kinds DT drafted, had DL been drafting for the Kings since 2000 I think it is safe to say we would be in better shape today as an organization in terms of NHL talent depth as well as prospect depth.

edit- though rereading my post, I realize how silly hindsight drafting is in the first place. Sure DT hit on a few gems, but overall I think DL drafts better character than DT ever did and that is something I agree with. Unless there is a guaranteed HUGE talent, I will always side with going for hockey sense and leadership over fancy skills against other kids.


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06-27-2009, 08:53 PM
  #86
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Unless there is a guaranteed HUGE talent, I will always side with going for hockey sense and leadership over fancy skills against other kids.
Them fancy skills that win that strange silver oversized vase don't impress JDM none.

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06-27-2009, 08:57 PM
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Them fancy skills that win that strange silver oversized vase don't impress JDM none.
Dem fancy skills you be talkin bout done be gone after first two picks dem Kings don't never have.

Dat Danny Roussin. Now dat dere boy had sum rweal fancy skills!

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06-27-2009, 09:02 PM
  #88
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Probably not Frolov or Kopitar, but Brown? I think DL would still seriously look at Brown in that draft. Sure, he might take Seabrook or Getzlaf or Burns instead, but its not like those would be bad picks.

Yes we love Frolov and Kopitar, but would we not be better if DL had drafted Williams over Frolov, M. Staal over Kopitar (the only player in the next ten picks I could see DL choosing over Kopitar at that 11 spot) , Seabrook or Getzlaf over Brown ALONG WITH Perry or Eaves or Weber or Bergeron or Erikkson over Boyle and Tambellini and Pushkarev. This is not even considering his late round picks.

Sure we may not have Frolov or Kopitar or Brown, but looking at those drafts, and the kinds of players DL drafts over the kinds DT drafted, had DL been drafting for the Kings since 2000 I think it is safe to say we would be in better shape today as an organization in terms of NHL talent depth as well as prospect depth.

edit- though rereading my post, I realize how silly hindsight drafting is in the first place. Sure DT hit on a few gems, but overall I think DL drafts better character than DT ever did and that is something I agree with. Unless there is a guaranteed HUGE talent, I will always side with going for hockey sense and leadership over fancy skills against other kids.
What are these greta latter round picks that people keep saying that Dean has made? Simmonds and Moller? 2nd round picks......

I think if this team is going to make a push towards winning the Cup it will because of players like Kopitar, Brown and Frolov.

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06-27-2009, 09:11 PM
  #89
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What are these greta latter round picks that people keep saying that Dean has made? Simmonds and Moller? 2nd round picks......

I think if this team is going to make a push towards winning the Cup it will because of players like Kopitar, Brown and Frolov.
Agreed. Those 3, along with Doughty and Quick, are the keys to the future.

I'm not questioning that at all.

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06-27-2009, 09:12 PM
  #90
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When I said this a few weeks ago, I was villified. K17 must just be more loveable....
I don't know about that. Prickly and hard to eradicate types need love too.

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06-27-2009, 09:19 PM
  #91
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Agreed. Those 3, along with Doughty and Quick, are the keys to the future.

I'm not questioning that at all.
But you said that Dean would have drafted better players?????Unless I misunderstood you.

You also added Quick (another Taylor pick). I am not saying that Dean is not a great drafting GM.....but when you look at his greatest successes (Doughty, Moller and Simmonds) those guys were all selected in the top 61 picks of their respective drafts.....all of the other players that Dean has drafted are still either in juniors, college, Manchester or Ontario. At this point there isn't enough evidence either way to say that Dean is any better at drafting than any other GM the Kings have ever had.

The one thing I will give Dean credit for is holding onto the picks....I strongly believe that Taylor would have traded at least 1 of the 3 top 5 picks the Kings have had over the last 3 years.

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06-27-2009, 09:26 PM
  #92
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But you said that Dean would have drafted better players?????Unless I misunderstood you.

You also added Quick (another Taylor pick). I am not saying that Dean is not a great drafting GM.....but when you look at his greatest successes (Doughty, Moller and Simmonds) those guys were all selected in the top 61 picks of their respective drafts.....all of the other players that Dean has drafted are still either in juniors, college, Manchester or Ontario. At this point there isn't enough evidence either way to say that Dean is any better at drafting than any other GM the Kings have ever had.

The one thing I will give Dean credit for is holding onto the picks....I strongly believe that Taylor would have traded at least 1 of the 3 top 5 picks the Kings have had over the last 3 years.
My point was that with better overall drafting since 2000 we'd be a better team, whether it is with those three or a different three. Yes, those 3 are the keys now, because that's who we have now.

I meant to say that even had we drafted different players than Brown, Kopi and Fro with those picks, had we not blown the 2004 picks and the two late 2003 picks, we would be a better team. That's it really.

If Taylor had drafted according to Dean's methodology, I think we would still end up with Brown, and probably 3 more guys like Brown. Does that make more sense?

And you are right that we need more time to totally evaluate Dean's drafting with the Kings. We'll see if Hickey or Voynov make an impact this year. I think one of them will. The rest we will need to wait another 3 or so years to really tell one way or the other.

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06-27-2009, 09:29 PM
  #93
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Agreed. Those 3, along with Doughty and Quick, are the keys to the future. I'm not questioning that at all.
you mean the Doughty who was a kinda hard to F' up 2nd overall pick ...
and Jon Quick, who was a DT pick ...

those guys ?

and not to beat ... well OK yes to beat a dead horse ... how many Cups did Mr. Better Character Drafter win with San Jose again ?

Point really is this ... IF this current core of Kings ends up winning a cup anytime within the next 5 years, credit will be due at least in part to Dave Taylor and His draft picks also ... if you want to discredit this statement fine, but then too Lombardi gets NO credit should San Jose ever win the cup, fair enough ?

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06-27-2009, 09:30 PM
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you mean the Doughty who was a kinda hard to F' up 2nd overall pick ...
and Jon Quick, who was a DT pick ...

those guys ?

and not to beat ... well OK yes to beat a dead horse ... how many Cups did Mr. Better Character Drafter win with San Jose again ?

Point really is this ... IF this current core of Kings ends up winning a cup anytime within the next 5 years, credit will be due at least in part to Dave Taylor and His draft picks also ... if you want to discredit this statement fine, but then too Lombardi gets NO credit should San Jose ever win the cup, fair enough ?
My thought exactly.

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06-27-2009, 09:40 PM
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Point really is this ... IF this current core of Kings ends up winning a cup anytime within the next 5 years, credit will be due at least in part to Dave Taylor and His draft picks also ... if you want to discredit this statement fine, but then too Lombardi gets NO credit should San Jose ever win the cup, fair enough ?
Yeah. Its fair, because I agree.

Clearly I am not making my point clear.

Allow me to quote Ron from another thread...

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All scouts can do is find people with potential and then hope they have the determination to reach that potential.
This is where I think DT and crew were lesser than DL. DT found a few guys who had that determination, but to me it is clear that it was more dumb luck than researching their determination and competitveness, which I believe is the trump card in an athlete unless his skills are WORLD CLASS (and yet even then, without the compete, world class skills don't become work class skills on a regular basis without the determination).

I'm just speculating. Obviously Taylor's move have a lot to do with where the organization stands today, some good, some bad. If Kopitar leads us to the cup, Taylor deserves some credit for that, regardless of whether it was dumb luck or great drafting.

You can use the "how many cups has Dean won?" argument in regards to other GM's, and it definately holds water, but it doesn't really apply to Taylor. Dean has built one team that has shown staying power. Taylor built one team that crumbled after one season of injuries.

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06-27-2009, 09:58 PM
  #96
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In fact I'll go one step further ...
what's one of the bigger complaints or arguments from people as to WHY San Jose constantly chokes in the playoffs ?

That many of the players "Mr. Better Character Drafter" drafted don't have the HEART or COMPETE level to Win. Or at least it leaves them come crunch time in the playoffs. At least I know I've read that more than once. I'm not crapping on Dean, in as much as I'm tired of people crapping on Taylor.

I would love to have seen what our team MIGHT have ever been under Taylor, had we NOT been decimated by injuries and handicapped by the whimsy of a meddling used car salesman of a President in Tim Leiweke that was often the man behind the decisions Taylor was forced to placate. Lombardi thankfully appears not to have to deal with that, so I continue to hold out hope for this teams future like the rest of us. But it's been since 1980 for me, and I swear I turn more and more into PSP every passing season

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06-27-2009, 10:06 PM
  #97
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Yes we love Frolov and Kopitar, but would we not be better if DL had drafted Williams over Frolov, M. Staal over Kopitar (the only player in the next ten picks I could see DL choosing over Kopitar at that 11 spot) , Seabrook or Getzlaf over Brown ALONG WITH Perry or Eaves or Weber or Bergeron or Erikkson over Boyle and Tambellini and Pushkarev. This is not even considering his late round picks.
You're talking best case scenario picks in all of those selections. The scouts Dean left in San Jose had a chance to select Getzlaf. They chose Steve Bernier. They had a chance to select Weber; they chose Carle.

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06-27-2009, 10:17 PM
  #98
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In fact I'll go one step further ...
what's one of the bigger complaints or arguments from people as to WHY San Jose constantly chokes in the playoffs ?

That many of the players "Mr. Better Character Drafter" drafted don't have the HEART or COMPETE level to Win. Or at least it leaves them come crunch time in the playoffs. At least I know I've read that more than once. I'm not crapping on Dean, in as much as I'm tired of people crapping on Taylor.

I would love to have seen what our team MIGHT have ever been under Taylor, had we NOT been decimated by injuries and handicapped by the whimsy of a meddling used car salesman of a President in Tim Leiweke that was often the man behind the decisions Taylor was forced to placate. Lombardi thankfully appears not to have to deal with that, so I continue to hold out hope for this teams future like the rest of us. But it's been since 1980 for me, and I swear I turn more and more into PSP every passing season
Good points. To me that is mostly Thornton though. He is supposed to lead and he is the worst at stepping up his game come playoff time.

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You're talking best case scenario picks in all of those selections. The scouts Dean left in San Jose had a chance to select Getzlaf. They chose Steve Bernier. They had a chance to select Weber; they chose Carle.
Yeah I know. That's why I added in the qualification edit that hindsight drafting is silly, even though I just did it myself.

I went overboard in trying to illustrate a lesser point.

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06-27-2009, 11:37 PM
  #99
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Uh, guess I need a new avatar! I hate change!

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06-28-2009, 12:00 AM
  #100
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thank christ for this, that's all I can say.

bring on trevor lewis, if he was a year older and more experienced last year, he would have stuck over all of those kids. he was way better than clown feet boyle, that's for ******* sure. Anyone that has a clue about how the game works can see that.

bye brian, you'll have a difficult time hacking it in hartford after Slats and Tortarella figure you out.

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