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Who has the better shot for Hall of Fame?

View Poll Results: Who has a better shot at the Hall?
Jere Lehtinen 11 7.75%
John Madden 0 0%
Martin St. Louis 14 9.86%
Zdeno Chara 58 40.85%
Vincent Lecavalier 43 30.28%
Milan Hejduk 2 1.41%
I see no possible Hall of Famers here. 14 9.86%
Voters: 142. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
06-27-2009, 09:04 AM
  #26
8BostonRocker24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yadadaimhollaing View Post
Also wasnt gonchar one of the three finalists for the norris last season meaning he had at least one 2 or 3 place finish in the norris race?
Voting results last year:
1. Lids
2. The Dion
3. Chara

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Old
06-27-2009, 09:24 AM
  #27
Boxscore
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Lecavalier.

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Old
06-27-2009, 10:17 AM
  #28
WingsFan95
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Wow, a lot of Madden hate.

Guy is one of only two offensive threats for a Devils team that has won 2 Cups with him and probably another one down the line.

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Old
06-27-2009, 10:25 AM
  #29
TheDevilMadeMe
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Originally Posted by 99wasnotthebest View Post
Wow, a lot of Madden hate.

Guy is one of only two offensive threats for a Devils team that has won 2 Cups with him and probably another one down the line.
Madden an offensive threat?


He had by far the best playoffs of his career in 2003 and was 3rd in scoring on the team, and was not in the top 2 in goals either.

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Old
06-27-2009, 10:43 AM
  #30
Dgill
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 8BostonRocker24 View Post
Good thing Scott Stevens had all those "points" and "Norris trophies" and "NHL MVP awards".

13 Time NHL All Star (2 First Team, 3 Second Team)
Captained 3 Stanley Cups
Conne Smythe Winner (An NHL Playoff MVP Award...)
196 goals, 712 assistsm 908 points (One of the highest scoring dmen of ALL TIME)


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Old
06-27-2009, 11:09 AM
  #31
JSF1921
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Originally Posted by 99wasnotthebest View Post
Wow, a lot of Madden hate.

Guy is one of only two offensive threats for a Devils team that has won 2 Cups with him and probably another one down the line.
Wait, what?

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Old
06-27-2009, 11:24 AM
  #32
8BostonRocker24
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Originally Posted by Dgill View Post
13 Time NHL All Star (2 First Team, 3 Second Team)
Captained 3 Stanley Cups
Conne Smythe Winner (An NHL Playoff MVP Award...)
196 goals, 712 assistsm 908 points (One of the highest scoring dmen of ALL TIME)

ZOOOOOOOOOOOM... Did you hear that? Something just went over your head.




You completely missed the point of my post.

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Old
06-27-2009, 01:09 PM
  #33
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Originally Posted by yadadaimhollaing View Post
With doug wilson recieving 4 top 5 norris finishes including a norris trophy why do you think hes not been selected? Ive read some debates in the history section about his selection/non selection but dont really remember getting a clear idea why hes been kept out?
Wilson was a very good, complete defenseman. He had an amazing slapshot, was a great skater, and good defensively. He wasn't overly tough, but didn't shy away from physical play either.

During his peak (1979-80 through 1990-91), Wilson scored more points that any defenseman aside from Coffey and Bourque. During his years in Chicago ('78 to '91), Wilson had a higher plus/minus than every player except outstanding two-way forward Steve Larmer (and was 5th on a per-game basis).

So why didn't he make the HOF? Two main reasons, I think. First, he has a short career compared to many contemporaries. He often struggled with injuries (never played >70 games in a season after age 28). He was basically finished at age 33. Second, he never won the Stanley Cup. I'm not saying that it's right but, historically, it's difficult for defensemen to earn a spot in the HOF without winning the Cup. (This is unfair to Wilson as he was a big part of the 1984 Canada Cup team, and was a great playoff performer with 80 pts in 95 games).

Honestly Wilson wasn't too far from a HOF career. There's not a lot seperating him from Rob Blake. A few more healthy seasons, or one big playoff run, and he likely would have made it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by yadadaimhollaing View Post
Also wasnt gonchar one of the three finalists for the norris last season meaning he had at least one 2 or 3 place finish in the norris race?
He just missed out on the top three that year:

2000 - 5th place
2002 - 4th place
2003 - 4th place
2008 - 4th place

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Old
06-27-2009, 01:16 PM
  #34
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How can people not forsee Chara getting in? He's close right now as it is. Think about it:

2 first team all-stars ('04 and '09)
2 second team all-stars ('06, '08)
Norris Trophy ('09)

Not to mention he's only 32 years old, lots of time left to play. Can we agree he has been perhaps the 2nd best defenseman in the last 6 years? That's some elite shelf life. And defensemen with 4 all-star selections get into the HHOF. Only Brewer has that many and isnt in. Chara will add to that, and even without a Cup, yes he's in at the end of his career

Hejduk? No.
Madden? No.
Lehtinen? No.

St. Louis is an interesting case. He's a prototypical late bloomer. He's 34 now, so we'll see. But so far he has a Hart, Art Ross, Pearson, 1st team all-star, 2nd team all-star, a Cup, and he's been on the World Cup and Olympic teams (maybe in 2010 too). But he'll need a few more seasons like this past year. He should have been a 2nd team all-star over Hossa though but oh well.

Lecavalier will pick it up again. It's funny you know, because as much as we talk about him he's really only had two elite seasons in his career.
But he has a Cup, a World Cup MVP, a 2nd team all-star, a Richard Trophy (beating Ovy), a 100 point season. He'll need a lot more, and the guy needs playoff years to get noticed. But he's only 29 and this year will tell a lot IMO.

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Old
06-28-2009, 12:27 AM
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hockey Outsider View Post
Wilson was a very good, complete defenseman. He had an amazing slapshot, was a great skater, and good defensively. He wasn't overly tough, but didn't shy away from physical play either.

During his peak (1979-80 through 1990-91), Wilson scored more points that any defenseman aside from Coffey and Bourque. During his years in Chicago ('78 to '91), Wilson had a higher plus/minus than every player except outstanding two-way forward Steve Larmer (and was 5th on a per-game basis).

So why didn't he make the HOF? Two main reasons, I think. First, he has a short career compared to many contemporaries. He often struggled with injuries (never played >70 games in a season after age 28). He was basically finished at age 33. Second, he never won the Stanley Cup. I'm not saying that it's right but, historically, it's difficult for defensemen to earn a spot in the HOF without winning the Cup. (This is unfair to Wilson as he was a big part of the 1984 Canada Cup team, and was a great playoff performer with 80 pts in 95 games).

Honestly Wilson wasn't too far from a HOF career. There's not a lot seperating him from Rob Blake. A few more healthy seasons, or one big playoff run, and he likely would have made it.



He just missed out on the top three that year:

2000 - 5th place
2002 - 4th place
2003 - 4th place
2008 - 4th place
Does wilson have any eligibilty for the hhof left? Maybe the committee would change their minds in the last year of eligibilty?

Thanks for the norris breakdowns on gonchar. I guess i was thinking about how much olychk was campaiging for gonchar.

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Old
06-28-2009, 08:26 AM
  #36
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I had a tough time deciding between Chara and Vinnie, I chose big Z but it is awfully close and I think only those 2 have a real shot at it. If Chara ever is a cup winner, I think it is likely he'll get in and Vinnie needs to continue to be a dominant force and I think he'll get in.

I just don't see the other guys having much of a chance.

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Old
06-28-2009, 08:33 AM
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Vagabond View Post
For those voting Chara I think have lost the plot. He might go in under the vetren catagory--but not as part of the yearly 4 players.

How many Norris trophies--1
Stanley cup?
Points?
NHL MVP awards?

There is nothing in his stats that stand out that make him note worthy and until he starts get his trophy filled a lot more.

Winning ONE norris trophy does not get you into the hall of fame
I think you may have missed the plot, the question asked was "Who Has the Better Shot at the Hall of Fame?", it was not who is a lock to get in or who is going to get in.

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Old
06-28-2009, 09:25 AM
  #38
TheDevilMadeMe
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yadadaimhollaing View Post
Does wilson have any eligibilty for the hhof left? Maybe the committee would change their minds in the last year of eligibilty?

Thanks for the norris breakdowns on gonchar. I guess i was thinking about how much olychk was campaiging for gonchar.
Pretty sure there's no end to the years of eligibity. They recently inducted Dick Duff after something like 40 years. It's just that if you aren't inducted in your first 5-10 years, your chances probably aren't very good anymore.

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Old
06-28-2009, 11:08 AM
  #39
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IMO Chara / Lidstrom are the two best defense men in the NHL and I do see these two battling for the Norris the next few seasons. If Chara wins a few more Norris trophies, which I do foresee him doing, and wins a Cup I think he does have the best legitimate chance at making it.

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