HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Atlantic Division > Montreal Canadiens
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

Interesting article in L'Actualité about Les Canadiens

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
06-29-2009, 12:47 PM
  #26
Corey
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 3,300
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jean Beliveau View Post
I've got no problem whatsoever with this article's premise.

Yes the Habs have a national following and even a worlwide one but the team is based in Quebec which I presume you know is the only remaining French speaking region in North America.

If Quebecers and French Canadians want a larger Quebecois contingent on their team that is perfectly understandable. I know the English Canadian contribution made to this team over the previous decades was tremendous as well but it was always in conjuction with a large and proud French Canadian contingent.

Sice the mid-nineties onward we have gotten away from this and it does need to be addressed once and for all. Louis Leblanc is a great step in this direction as I truly beleive that he will be a star in a few years.

We must become the best at scouting local Quebec talent bar none as it is in our backyard.
NO EXCUSES.

Lemieux and Lecavalier were beyond our control and could not be realistically aquired.

But whether by draft, free agency and trade we must always maintain the largest number of NHL quality French Canadian on our team.
NO EXCUSES.

If Lecavalier does not have the balls to request a trade out of Tampa then I say let's move on and as much as I hate the thought of him wasting his talent in a brutal non hockey and joke of a market that is Tampa Bay. Did they not celebrate their Stanley cup parade in a parking lot. How pathetic.

I guarantee you a winning team next year if we could somehow get Briere, Gagne, Laperriere, MA Bergeron, Beauchemin added to the likes of Lapierre, Latendresse, Tanguay.

I'm also including Koivu and Kovalev to this mix as well as Komisarek.

Flame away if you must.
Your notion is too quixotic to be worthy of consideration. The Habs are no more able to conscript francophones from other NHL teams than they are to restore the pre-expansion privilege of having first crack at any two players in the Q. Not only that, but adding the players you dream about to the three Ks would demolish the payroll.

To enhance your fantasy, why didn't you substitute Lecavalier for Briere, who is not only grossly overpaid but also small and fragile?

Finally, your cherrypicked list of notable Québécois is very, very short. If you can't name any more notable players from the province, it would suggest that the talent pool is much too shallow to support the Habs. Louis Leblanc may have been the only firstrounder of note, and he went at #18. Sad, isn't it? I'd say there are loads and loads of excuses for looking outside Québec. Namely, superior talent.

Corey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-29-2009, 12:49 PM
  #27
Kriss E
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 24,573
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jean Beliveau View Post
I've got no problem whatsoever with this article's premise.
Not surprising considering your nickname here.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jean Beliveau View Post
Yes the Habs have a national following and even a worlwide one but the team is based in Quebec which I presume you know is the only remaining French speaking region in North America.

If Quebecers and French Canadians want a larger Quebecois contingent on their team that is perfectly understandable. I know the English Canadian contribution made to this team over the previous decades was tremendous as well but it was always in conjuction with a large and proud French Canadian contingent.
The Province of Qc is big. The Habs are from Mtl, which is a multi-ethnic city and the Habs represent it well.
That being said, I have no problem with bringing in more local talent. As long as the players we bring in our TALENTED, then I don't give two craps what their last name is.

Anybody that thinks otherwise should come back to 2009.
Times have changed, get with them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jean Beliveau View Post
Sice the mid-nineties onward we have gotten away from this and it does need to be addressed once and for all. Louis Leblanc is a great step in this direction as I truly beleive that he will be a star in a few years.
Europeans and Asians have become more and more popular in our league and with reason. It's not as simple to get a team full of Quebecer superstars.

I'm curious..Have you seen Louis Leblanc play??
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jean Beliveau View Post
We must become the best at scouting local Quebec talent bar none as it is in our backyard.
NO EXCUSES.
It's a lot easier for teams to scout a league based in NA than in EUR. That includes the 29 other teams.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jean Beliveau View Post
Lemieux and Lecavalier were beyond our control and could not be realistically aquired.

But whether by draft, free agency and trade we must always maintain the largest number of NHL quality French Canadian on our team.
NO EXCUSES.
That is the dumbest thing ever. You think it's as simple as that??..
How do you suggest they acquire the best local talent year after year exactly??..

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jean Beliveau View Post
If Lecavalier does not have the balls to request a trade out of Tampa then I say let's move on and as much as I hate the thought of him wasting his talent in a brutal non hockey and joke of a market that is Tampa Bay. Did they not celebrate their Stanley cup parade in a parking lot. How pathetic.
Lecavalier has been living in TB for around 10years. Because he's settled in, likes the city and life he has there, it means he doesn't have the ''balls'' to require a trade??..

Anybody that doesn't ask to be traded to Mtl is ball-less??..

The man likes his life there, wow what a tool!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jean Beliveau View Post
I guarantee you a winning team next year if we could somehow get Briere, Gagne, Laperriere, MA Bergeron, Beauchemin added to the likes of Lapierre, Latendresse, Tanguay.

I'm also including Koivu and Kovalev to this mix as well as Komisarek.

Flame away if you must.
And I guarantee we wouldn't win. It holds as much water as your guarantee.

Kriss E is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-29-2009, 12:54 PM
  #28
sXe
Yuuuuuup!
 
sXe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Montreal
Posts: 3,734
vCash: 500
Replace Sweden with Minnesota and that's our plan.
Habs do know better than anyone about players in Quebec and sometimes they know not to draft them ahead of other better players.

P.k.Subban and Chris Higgins (to name a couple off my head) are huge Habs fan so in that respect we do draft players who cheer for the Canadiens.

Savard leaving in only indirectly responsible , what really hurt us was trading the best goalie of all-time and our captain.
Also after Savard left we kept drafting Quebec players but we still had one the worst team.

sXe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-29-2009, 12:59 PM
  #29
ChickenHabsFan
 
ChickenHabsFan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 257
vCash: 500
I think its the coaching staff's job to make the players give their 100% each and every night. But yes maybe having more french players could help but im not so sure. Would you take a pumped up Bouillon or a pumped up Niedermayer? The choice is clear in my mind.

ChickenHabsFan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-29-2009, 01:02 PM
  #30
Jean Beliveau
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 282
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by doormat2009 View Post
Especially since Sweden as a hockey nation beats the piss out of what Quebec has to offer.
I think a Quebec based team would stand a reasonable chance of beating team Sweden.

I sense a lot of hostility towards French Canadians on this board or at least any notion that this team must have a quality Quebecois core as its foundation.

Maybe you should be supporting the Leafs instead.

Jean Beliveau is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-29-2009, 01:07 PM
  #31
Jean Beliveau
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 282
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Corey View Post
Your notion is too quixotic to be worthy of consideration. The Habs are no more able to conscript francophones from other NHL teams than they are to restore the pre-expansion privilege of having first crack at any two players in the Q. Not only that, but adding the players you dream about to the three Ks would demolish the payroll.

To enhance your fantasy, why didn't you substitute Lecavalier for Briere, who is not only grossly overpaid but also small and fragile?

Finally, your cherrypicked list of notable Québécois is very, very short. If you can't name any more notable players from the province, it would suggest that the talent pool is much too shallow to support the Habs. Louis Leblanc may have been the only firstrounder of note, and he went at #18. Sad, isn't it? I'd say there are loads and loads of excuses for looking outside Québec. Namely, superior talent.

Quebec has produced and will continue to produce more than enough talent for the Canadiens to get their fair share on a yearly basis.

I'm not saying to restrict the scouting efforts to Quebec only but the local factor must be acknowledged.


You can add some quality Quebec talent trough free agency and keep core players like Kovalev, Tanguay and Komisarek.

Jean Beliveau is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-29-2009, 01:21 PM
  #32
Goldthorpe
Meditating Guru
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Montreal
Posts: 4,425
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jean Beliveau View Post
Quebec has produced and will continue to produce more than enough talent for the Canadiens to get their fair share on a yearly basis.
This is demonstrably false, and it's not even difficult to do so.

Goldthorpe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-29-2009, 01:27 PM
  #33
Teufelsdreck
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 14,630
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jean Beliveau View Post
Quebec has produced and will continue to produce more than enough talent for the Canadiens to get their fair share on a yearly basis.

I'm not saying to restrict the scouting efforts to Quebec only but the local factor must be acknowledged.


You can add some quality Quebec talent trough free agency and keep core players like Kovalev, Tanguay and Komisarek.
Leblanc (whom the Habs were able to draft) and Caron (who was drafted by the Bruins), both in the lower half of the first round. Is that a fair share for this year? (Contrast that with the 7 Swedes, several of them in the top 10.) Was last year's draft any richer in francophones? Where would the nucleus come from? Latendresse and Lapierre are good players but hardly stars.

Free agency? How often do worthwhile Québécois turn up as UFAs while they're still in their prime? And why don't they sign in Montréal? Do you think that Dandenault and Brisebois were great signings? Why isn't Lecavalier eager to come here?

Do you think Komisarek will remain as part of the core? Recent history shows that Kovalev and Markov (BOTH RUSSIANS) and Koivu (A FINN) are the only key players who actually chose to re-sign with the Habs when they became UFAs. It appears that Tanguay will also.

Teufelsdreck is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-29-2009, 02:41 PM
  #34
Andy
Registered User
 
Andy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Montreal
Country: Canada
Posts: 19,639
vCash: 500
This is a stupid article and I'll show why

2003

1st round:
- Kostitsyn
French players in the 1st:
- Steve Bernier
- Marc-Antoine Pouliot

2nd Round
- Cory Urquhart
- Maxim Lappiere
French players selected after
- Patrice Bergeron--o.k you got 1 so far
- Marc-Andre Bernier
- Jean-Francois Jacques

3rd Round
- Ryan O'Byrne
French players selected after
- Philippe Dupuis
- Alexandre Picard
- Jonathan Boutin
- Guillaume Desbiens
- Nathan Saunders

4th round
-Danny Stewart from Quebec...so there goes that round
5th round
- No Pick
6th Round
- Christopher Heino-Lindberg
- Mark Flood
French players selected after
- Bruno Gervais
- Francis Wathier

7th Round
- Oskari Korpikari
French players selected after
- Francois-Pierre Guenette
- Dany Roussin
- Jonathan Tremblay

8th Round
-Jimmy Bonneau there's the french pick...next round
9th round
- Halak
French players selected after
- Jean-Michel Bolduc

2004

1st round:
- Chipchura
French players selected after
- no french players selected after Chipchura
2nd round
**no pick**
3rd round
- Alexei Yemelin
French players selected after
- No french players selected after Yemelin
4th round
- Wyman
French players selected after
- Nick Fugere
- Patrick Bordeleau
- David Laliberte

5th round
- Grabovski
French players selected after
- Jean-Claude Sawyer
- Kevin Cormier

6th round
- Lois Lacasse
7th round
-Jon Gleed
French players selected after
- Pierre-Luc Letourneau-Leblond
- Martin Houle

8th Round
- Greg Stewart
French players selected after
- Jonathan Paiement
9th Round
- Mark Streit
- Alexandre Dulac-Lemelin

2005

Round 1
- Price
French players selected after
- Luc Bourdon
- Alex Bourret
- Marc-Edouard Vlasic

Round 2
- Latendresse
Round 3
No Pick
Round 4
- Juraj Mikus
French players selected after
None
Round 5
- Mathieu Aubin
Round 6
- Matt D'agostini
French players selected after
- Nicolas Blanchard
- Jean-Philippe Levasseur

Round 7
- Sergei Kostitsyn
- Phillipe Paquet

2006

Round 1
- David Fischer
French players selected after
- Claude Giroux
- Francois Bouchard

Round 2
- Ben Maxwell
- Mathieu Carle
Round 3
- Ryan White
French players selected after
- Brad Marchand
Round 4
- No Pick
Round 5
- Pavel Valentenko
French players selected after
- Maxime Frechette
- Olivier Magnan
- Stephane Chaput

Round 6
- No Pick
Round 7
- Cameron Cepek
French players selected after
- Benjamin Breault
- Kyell Henegan


2007

Round 1
- Ryan McDonagh
- Max Pacioretty
French players selected after
- Angelo Esposito
- David Perron
- T.J. Brennan

Round 2
- P.K. Subban
French players selected after
- Antoine Lafleur
- Keven Veilleux
-Maxime Macenauer

Round 3
- Olivier Fortier
- Yannik Weber
Round 4
No Pick
Round 5
- Joe Stejskal
- Andrew Conboy
French players selected after
- Charles-Antoine Messier
- Jean-Simon Allard

Round 6
-Nichlas Torp
French players selected after
- None
[B ]Round 7[/B]
- Scott Kishel
French players selected after
- Simon Lacroix

2008

Round 1
No Pick
Round 2
- Danny Kristo
French players selected after
- Peter Delmas
- Marc-Andre Bourdon
- Danick Paquette
- Mathieu Brodeur
- Marco Cousineau

Round 3
- Steve Quailer
French players selected after
- Samuel Groulx
- Jordon Southorn
- Steven Delisle
- Kelsey Tessier
- Joel Champagne
- Philippe Cornet

Round 4
- Jason Missiaen
French players selected after
Round 5
- Maxim Trunev
French players selected after
- Jason Demers
- Joel Chouinard

Round 6
No Pick
Round 7
- Patrick Johnson
French players selected after
None

Please Note that I only selected french players from the Q and not all players because that's what the issue is about

Since 2003, habs missed out on Claude Giroux, Patrice Bergeron and David Perron, why are we complaining again?!

Andy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-29-2009, 05:07 PM
  #35
Kafka
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Montreal
Country: Martinique
Posts: 5,114
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Koseegin View Post
This is a stupid article and I'll show why

Since 2003, habs missed out on Claude Giroux, Patrice Bergeron and David Perron, why are we complaining again?!
I wouldn't use the term stupid as it ask management to have a winning plan. You accept mediocrity? Fine for you, but I don't. I am old enough to remember 3 Stanley Cup finals, and I have seen proud player fight for this team. I want a winning team, and I though most were sharing the same opinion. I don't care if they speak english or french: I want a team made of players that know how important is this hockey club for its people. Look at Philadelphia for instance. What are they doing? Filling the team with guys from Phily? No, there are not enought. But they are filling the team with Canadians. Same for Pittsburg, Chicago, Calgary or Edmonton while NJ chooses Americans and Detroit Swedes. If you look at Calgary and Edmonton, they have a higher proportion of local guys than in the other teams.

The thing is not that we should draft all the local guys. Look at 2004: the LHJMQ had nothing to provide to this league. However, when a guy like Perron opens the eyes of junior teams and plans on joining a Q team at 18 years old, you take the time to invite him at your training camp. In his case, we could have signed him without even wasting a pick. But it requires good scouts.

By the way, I don't think you can already take the past three drafts and point out who is good or not. Also you missed a guy named Christopher Letang on your list, 3rd round in 2005.

If you go back to 2001, you can add Pominville, Vermette, Ouellet, Lombardi, Gragnani to that list. Is there any Zetterberg there? No. But one needs to start somewhere.

Kafka is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-29-2009, 05:13 PM
  #36
Kafka
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Montreal
Country: Martinique
Posts: 5,114
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by sXe View Post
Replace Sweden with Minnesota and that's our plan.
Habs do know better than anyone about players in Quebec and sometimes they know not to draft them ahead of other better players.

P.k.Subban and Chris Higgins (to name a couple off my head) are huge Habs fan so in that respect we do draft players who cheer for the Canadiens.

Savard leaving in only indirectly responsible , what really hurt us was trading the best goalie of all-time and our captain.
Also after Savard left we kept drafting Quebec players but we still had one the worst team.
And those are precisely the guys the team should focus on drafting... specially in a league were a guy can become an UFA at 26 years old. I didn't know about Subban, but I knew about Higgins, and this is one of the reasons why I want him and A.Kostitsyn, G.Latendresse, Lapierre and Patiorretti to be part of the post-Koivu-era nucleus of leaders. Some are there for their talent, the others for their pride.

Kafka is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-29-2009, 05:15 PM
  #37
Andy
Registered User
 
Andy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Montreal
Country: Canada
Posts: 19,639
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kafka View Post
I wouldn't use the term stupid as it ask management to have a winning plan. You accept mediocrity? Fine for you, but I don't. I am old enough to remember 3 Stanley Cup finals, and I have seen proud player fight for this team. I want a winning team, and I though most were sharing the same opinion. I don't care if they speak english or french: I want a team made of players that know how important is this hockey club for its people. Look at Philadelphia for instance. What are they doing? Filling the team with guys from Phily? No, there are not enought. But they are filling the team with Canadians. Same for Pittsburg, Chicago, Calgary or Edmonton while NJ chooses Americans and Detroit Swedes. If you look at Calgary and Edmonton, they have a higher proportion of local guys than in the other teams.

The thing is not that we should draft all the local guys. Look at 2004: the LHJMQ had nothing to provide to this league. However, when a guy like Perron opens the eyes of junior teams and plans on joining a Q team at 18 years old, you take the time to invite him at your training camp. In his case, we could have signed him without even wasting a pick. But it requires good scouts.



By the way, I don't think you can already take the past three drafts and point out who is good or not. Also you missed a guy named Christopher Letang on your list, 3rd round in 2005.

If you go back to 2001, you can add Pominville, Vermette, Ouellet, Lombardi, Gragnani to that list. Is there any Zetterberg there? No. But one needs to start somewhere.

Letang was chosen yes, but we had no third round pick. I also forgot to note that in my previous post, once we selected a quebecer in a previous round I would not post the quebecers chosen after because we got our fix.

I showed you a valid reason why the habs aren't just drafting from quebec.

From 2003 till now we have had 9 players after our first round pick playing in the nhl. Not to mention the next batch that will come up shortly.

I showed you all the possible quebecers the Canadiens could have drafted instead of what we've been picking and it has been pretty unspectacular.

All good quebecers are chosen before we even have a chance to pick, that arguement is useless.

Secondly every single Quebecer picked after our choices aside Perron, Giroux and Bergeron are terrible.

So please stop this stupid scout our own backyard when the grass is far from green.

Andy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-29-2009, 07:15 PM
  #38
Shaun Daigle
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 17
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Corey View Post
Your notion is too quixotic to be worthy of consideration. The Habs are no more able to conscript francophones from other NHL teams than they are to restore the pre-expansion privilege of having first crack at any two players in the Q. Not only that, but adding the players you dream about to the three Ks would demolish the payroll.

To enhance your fantasy, why didn't you substitute Lecavalier for Briere, who is not only grossly overpaid but also small and fragile?

Finally, your cherrypicked list of notable Québécois is very, very short. If you can't name any more notable players from the province, it would suggest that the talent pool is much too shallow to support the Habs. Louis Leblanc may have been the only firstrounder of note, and he went at #18. Sad, isn't it? I'd say there are loads and loads of excuses for looking outside Québec. Namely, superior talent.
Just a quick clarification for Mr. Belliveau. I'm sure you're not unfamiliar with New Brunswick as well as eastern and northern Ontario, all places that have a large French speaking population. Last time I checked these regions were part of North America and I can only assume that this has not changed. Sometimes we have to look beyond our invented borders to truly see the world in which we live.

Shaun Daigle is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:06 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2014 All Rights Reserved.