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06-30-2009, 08:35 AM
  #1
romelson
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Swedes in the CHL draft

Gabriel Landeskog, of Swedens top prospects in the class of 92(NHL draft eligible 2011) was the 3rd player to get drafted in the CHL Import draft, by Plymouth Whalers.

The CHL draft continues...

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06-30-2009, 08:46 AM
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Originally Posted by romelson View Post
Gabriel Landeskog, of Swedens top prospects in the class of 92(NHL draft eligible 2011) was the 3rd player to get drafted in the CHL Import draft, by Plymouth Whalers.

The CHL draft continues...
******* I hope that's just a gamble. It would be horrible if he left.

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06-30-2009, 08:50 AM
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Riddarn
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Landeskog has been rumored to go to the CHL for a while now. It probably is a done deal. ****ing disappointing for any DIF fan who watched him play his first few SEL games this spring. All that talent and we only got to see a few shifts of it. Another lost investment by DIF..

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06-30-2009, 08:59 AM
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Mmm, would have preferred Landeskog to stay in DIF.

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06-30-2009, 09:08 AM
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Originally Posted by Riddarn View Post
Landeskog has been rumored to go to the CHL for a while now. It probably is a done deal. ****ing disappointing for any DIF fan who watched him play his first few SEL games this spring. All that talent and we only got to see a few shifts of it. Another lost investment by DIF..
Luckily there's still only a few that will pursue playing juniors in NA, but it really damages hockey in Sweden. It would be hard to justify spending money on developing young players if this continues or gets worse.

Well, we can only hope he stays I guess, otherwise, good luck...or whatever.

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06-30-2009, 09:40 AM
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lehner at 9 to sault ste. marie. the OHL should be good for him.

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06-30-2009, 10:09 AM
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Originally Posted by PuckOut View Post
Luckily there's still only a few that will pursue playing juniors in NA, but it really damages hockey in Sweden. It would be hard to justify spending money on developing young players if this continues or gets worse.

Well, we can only hope he stays I guess, otherwise, good luck...or whatever.
I think what damages swedish ice hockey the most is the fact there is no good place for players aged 18-22 to get a lot of ice time. Because lets face it, j18 is a regional league filled with 16 year olds. J20 Superelit has 4-6 teams too many, split into two divisions without intradivisional play, too few games and the average age of the players are about 18 years old. In North America there is AHL, CHL and NCAA, leagues designed specifically to groom players in the transition from junior to senior. In sweden you either stay in J20 Superelit and play against 17 year olds or you accept 3rd/4th line minutes in Allsvenskan.. unless you're some kind of wunderkid that is lucky enough to play on an SEL team that can't afford to buy all the players they want.

That said, Landeskog would probably have gotten SEL ice time and plenty of it, as would Oscar Möller before him.

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06-30-2009, 10:39 AM
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****ing hell.. What a disappointment.

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06-30-2009, 11:22 AM
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Originally Posted by Riddarn View Post
I think what damages swedish ice hockey the most is the fact there is no good place for players aged 18-22 to get a lot of ice time. Because lets face it, j18 is a regional league filled with 16 year olds. J20 Superelit has 4-6 teams too many, split into two divisions without intradivisional play, too few games and the average age of the players are about 18 years old. In North America there is AHL, CHL and NCAA, leagues designed specifically to groom players in the transition from junior to senior. In sweden you either stay in J20 Superelit and play against 17 year olds or you accept 3rd/4th line minutes in Allsvenskan.. unless you're some kind of wunderkid that is lucky enough to play on an SEL team that can't afford to buy all the players they want.

That said, Landeskog would probably have gotten SEL ice time and plenty of it, as would Oscar Möller before him.
The CHL draft doesnt really concern players aged 18-22 though... It's 16 year olds like Landeskog (probably), and before that Wallén who leaves despite really good odds of getting ice time in the SEL at 18-22.

Talented 18-22 y/o's not quite good enough to play for SEL clubs usually go out on loan to Allsvenskan, so in a way there is already a solution to that problem.

I'm a bit pissed off at this situation as DIF have spent a good deal of money and effort into getting the youth development up to a good standard (because it was crap earlier) and now that we produce talented players we won't even see them play for the mens team.

What happens if the DIF board (and other clubs of course) come to the conclusion that it's just not worth it anymore and stop spending money on youth? There would be no winners if that happened. Look at the Czechs...

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06-30-2009, 11:47 AM
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Originally Posted by PuckOut View Post
The CHL draft doesnt really concern players aged 18-22 though... It's 16 year olds like Landeskog (probably), and before that Wallén who leaves despite really good odds of getting ice time in the SEL at 18-22.
CHL is 17 to 20 though.

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Talented 18-22 y/o's not quite good enough to play for SEL clubs usually go out on loan to Allsvenskan, so in a way there is already a solution to that problem.
we're talking about landeskog here, aren't we? he's an exceptional talent. i think he's in the NHL with 18 anyway. so why do you even care about him leaving? the best players will always leave early. a good youth program always produces that kind of talent too, but it's not that there are only landeskogs. DIF also produces guys like henrik eriksson. and he won't leave DIF anytime soon.
so where's the problem?

landeskog has to move to the CHL to get a chance at playing NHL early. if he'd stay with DIF they would either force him to sign a longer contract or if he refuses then they treat him like urbom. so he has no choice.

there will always be a few guys who enjoy eduction in a foreign country and move over, but the majority stays in sweden as long as they get a chance to develop.

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06-30-2009, 12:18 PM
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Originally Posted by zecke26 View Post
CHL is 17 to 20 though.
17-20 + 3 over aged players.

Not to forget that the majority of the players in the CHL are on their last two years as juniors. J20 superelit allows players up to 20 + overaged players as well, but almost no teams use that option. Instead all teams are full of 16-to-18 year olds, with a few last year juniors thrown in here and there. Besides, the canadian junior players are more physically mature and have been exposed to harder competitive environments for a longer period, which means they are "older" in that sense too.

But yeah, the CHL and the AHL/ECHL should be viewed as seperate parts of the same system. The point is still valid, there is no good place for players that are a bit too good for J20 Superelit but can't get more than 3rd or 4th line minutes in Allsvenskan. Division 1 is not an option. What we should need is a 8-10 team league (preferably modelled after the CHL model, so that it was free of interference from the SEL teams) above J20 superelit that focuses on players in the ages 18-22.


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we're talking about landeskog here, aren't we? he's an exceptional talent. i think he's in the NHL with 18 anyway. so why do you even care about him leaving? the best players will always leave early. a good youth program always produces that kind of talent too, but it's not that there are only landeskogs. DIF also produces guys like henrik eriksson. and he won't leave DIF anytime soon.
so where's the problem?

landeskog has to move to the CHL to get a chance at playing NHL early. if he'd stay with DIF they would either force him to sign a longer contract or if he refuses then they treat him like urbom. so he has no choice.

there will always be a few guys who enjoy eduction in a foreign country and move over, but the majority stays in sweden as long as they get a chance to develop.
DIF, who I'm sure know about this well in advance, could have treated Landeskog, Möller and Wallén like Urbom and didn't. Obviously something more was going on there.

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06-30-2009, 12:21 PM
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Originally Posted by zecke26 View Post
CHL is 17 to 20 though.



we're talking about landeskog here, aren't we? he's an exceptional talent. i think he's in the NHL with 18 anyway. so why do you even care about him leaving? the best players will always leave early. a good youth program always produces that kind of talent too, but it's not that there are only landeskogs. DIF also produces guys like henrik eriksson. and he won't leave DIF anytime soon.
so where's the problem?

landeskog has to move to the CHL to get a chance at playing NHL early. if he'd stay with DIF they would either force him to sign a longer contract or if he refuses then they treat him like urbom. so he has no choice.

there will always be a few guys who enjoy eduction in a foreign country and move over, but the majority stays in sweden as long as they get a chance to develop.
So because it's "only" our best young player(s) who leave early we should be content with the lesser young players?

If Landeskog will be NHL-ready by 18, then you can bet your behind he will play SEL with DIF at 17... And I think youre a bit wrong with the Urbom comparison. DIF would surely settle for a 2 year contract like they did with Josefson, that would leave Landeskog free to leave at 18 or 19, hardly too late for anything.

Victor Hedman left early and still played two seasons for MoDo btw...


Last edited by PuckOut: 06-30-2009 at 12:27 PM.
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06-30-2009, 12:38 PM
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Originally Posted by PuckOut View Post
So because it's "only" our best young player(s) who leave early we should be content with the lesser young players?

If Landeskog will be NHL-ready by 18, then you can bet your behind he will play SEL with DIF at 17... And I think youre a bit wrong with the Urbom comparison. DIF would surely settle for a 2 year contract like they did with Josefson, that would leave Landeskog free to leave at 18 or 19, hardly too late for anything.

Victor Hedman left early and still played two seasons for MoDo btw...
you have to look long-term, not short-term. most players come back one day.
joel lundqvist recently signed with frolunda it seems. PJ axelsson always stated that back in sweden there's only frolunda for him.
so these players will join their team sooner or later again and help. that's also a result of good youth programs. it's not just the 1 year you get when they are 18.
when calle gunnarsson signed with the leafs, although he had a valid contract in linkoping, their manager just said "good luck and promise to not forget us". so gunnarsson would one day come back to linkoping.

my point is that if players feel the need to move to CHL or ncaa or ushl you should let them go. treat them good and you will get them back one day.

and why is it always "oh no, a player is leaving DIF" while i never read any crying from other teams? it's a bit confusing.

and riddarn: why are so many DIF players leaving? could there be a reason we don't know?

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06-30-2009, 12:50 PM
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Originally Posted by zecke26 View Post

and riddarn: why are so many DIF players leaving? could there be a reason we don't know?
I'm guessing it's not much fun playing for the poorest SEL team, in a crappy old arena, no practice rink etc. I don't think it's just DIF though, I think it's the general hockey climate in Stockholm. There are quite a few former AIK and Hammarby-juniors in various junior and college leagues in north america too.

And as for the "long term" perspective you offer.. I don't see why kids should be rushed over so much faster nowdays than they were 15 years ago. Let them stay to mature and bring them over to the NHL at 22 or 23. That way we get to see something of their true talent (not just a junior or a 39 year old hasbeen) and the NHL still gets the player in his prime.

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06-30-2009, 12:59 PM
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Originally Posted by Riddarn View Post
I'm guessing it's not much fun playing for the poorest SEL team, in a crappy old arena, no practice rink etc. I don't think it's just DIF though, I think it's the general hockey climate in Stockholm. There are quite a few former AIK and Hammarby-juniors in various junior and college leagues in north america too.
could be, yes. but isn't that something DIF should adress? although stockholm is mainly soccer, isn't it?

Quote:
And as for the "long term" perspective you offer.. I don't see why kids should be rushed over so much faster nowdays than they were 15 years ago. Let them stay to mature and bring them over to the NHL at 22 or 23. That way we get to see something of their true talent (not just a junior or a 39 year old hasbeen) and the NHL still gets the player in his prime.
oh, not everyone should be rushed of course. most kids need a while. as long as they get ice-time in sweden. something you already mentioned.
look at johan ryno for example. he had 7 points in 12 games in the AHL, went back to sweden to play 5min on 4th line. and that's no exception. young players in sweden are usually bound to 4th line or play in allsvenskan.
jonathan ericsson was another example. when hakan andersson told his coaches they should let him play defense, they ignored him. he moved over to the AHL and is now a very nice defender.

and sometimes you have players like hedman who are simply ready to play NHL. there's no reason to keep them in sweden till they are 22.

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06-30-2009, 01:09 PM
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Originally Posted by zecke26 View Post
you have to look long-term, not short-term. most players come back one day.
joel lundqvist recently signed with frolunda it seems. PJ axelsson always stated that back in sweden there's only frolunda for him.
so these players will join their team sooner or later again and help. that's also a result of good youth programs. it's not just the 1 year you get when they are 18.
when calle gunnarsson signed with the leafs, although he had a valid contract in linkoping, their manager just said "good luck and promise to not forget us". so gunnarsson would one day come back to linkoping.

my point is that if players feel the need to move to CHL or ncaa or ushl you should let them go. treat them good and you will get them back one day.

and why is it always "oh no, a player is leaving DIF" while i never read any crying from other teams? it's a bit confusing.

and riddarn: why are so many DIF players leaving? could there be a reason we don't know?
Linköping can probably give Calle Gunnarsson SEK200K a month when he comes back. We are not in a position to do that. We absolutely need to get the most out of our young players.

Why you're hearing a lot of this from DIF? Maybe because we are in a troublesome situation with very small margins between survival and going under. That while being a club that in our minds "should" not be in such a predicament. Young players turning their backs on the club is the last thing we need.

Ryno btw, I don't even understand why we brough him over the year before last. He was useless.

Riddarn:
Blasphemy... I think our young players enjoy playing in front off the most passionate supporters in the country and Hovet is not crap in any way since the last restoration 4-5 years ago. The issue is more likely money. We can't offer top salarys and they believe they will earn more elsewhere. And since that's the way of the world, it's even more important that we can keep hold of our youngsters at least until their draft year.

How come Daniel Fernholm isnt playing for DIF for example, there's only one reason. $$$

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06-30-2009, 01:20 PM
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could be, yes. but isn't that something DIF should adress? although stockholm is mainly soccer, isn't it?
Stockholm isn't mainly soccer, it's mainly not sports at all. And by that I don't mean in terms of interest or fan support. The city sees the clubs as something to cash in on. There is no tax money going into, or benefitting our clubs as you will see in pretty much all the rest of the country. I can't for the life of me understand why because it's slowly killing our teams when clubs around the country get new arenas built at generous costs and low rent while we sit in ancient stadiums with costs that strangle the clubs.

For example, a few years ago DIF paid as much rent for one match at the old olympic stadium from 1912 as Halmstad paidfor their stadium for a whole year... Seems fair huh?

But enough whining, I'm still looking forward to the new season and will continue to do so until the fat lady sings, when that happens...jihad on the city council.

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06-30-2009, 02:38 PM
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Plymouth gave up a lot to get Landeskog (Traded for 6th pick, then to move up to 3rd) I doubt they would give up what they did for him unless they knew he would come over. They are a solid playoff team, not a team that needs to take risks on star players because the team is so bad.

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06-30-2009, 10:16 PM
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Plymouth gave up a lot to get Landeskog (Traded for 6th pick, then to move up to 3rd) I doubt they would give up what they did for him unless they knew he would come over. They are a solid playoff team, not a team that needs to take risks on star players because the team is so bad.
Nice to hear he's going to a decent team. Still I can't believe this is happening. Naively, I was so looking forward to watching him tearing it up in the SEL. I get the feeling that there has to be something wrong within our organization when we're unable to hold on to our talents (and there are other valid reasons as well like how the board secured first dibs themselves on the emission). Honestly I don't trust the powers that be much at this point.

I also agree with PuckOut that the way Stockholm stad handles the whole business of sports in STHLM, even though they promised our football section an arena they way they handled it is laughable. "Yeah, we're giving you an arena as promised, but SURPRISE! it happens to be in fecking Akalla!" Cheers for that. Bajen and AIK got new ones in their own locations even though they didn't really need any nearly as much as we do.

I get the feeling that we're really dependant on AIK getting back to the SEL. The derby is needed and I feel a bit dirty for actually saying that we need anything from those ********.

/Drunk rant


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07-01-2009, 12:24 AM
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'I get the feeling that there has to be something wrong within our organization when we're unable to hold on to our talents (and there are other valid reasons as well like how the board secured first dibs themselves on the emission).
Unfortunately I don't think they could have done much to stop it. Landeskogs agent is Peter Wallén, father of William Wallén who was shipped over last year. The word is that he'll pretty much try to move any player to NA as soon as possible...

I'd assume he gets something in his pocket when he succeeds.

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07-01-2009, 12:40 AM
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Sweden better do something about this and stop this while it still just a few players, because otherwise......

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07-01-2009, 02:52 AM
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landeskog has to move to the CHL to get a chance at playing NHL early. if he'd stay with DIF they would either force him to sign a longer contract or if he refuses then they treat him like urbom. so he has no choice.
I agree with puckout here. A 2 year deal is in both interest when clearly this guy is so talented that he could make the NHL at 18. One has to consider whether playing on a 4th line in Sel would benefit his progression as in opposed to playing CHL hockey. Just look at this past season, how Lander was used in Timra, or rather missused. André Petersson case. The treatment of Urbom which will only hurt Djurgarden are all clear warning lights for kids that SEL teams are not always making smart decisions short-term and long-term.
I wish Landeskog stayed but as long as we produce talents like the 90,91 etc and players goal is to make the NHL some day we will loose players to CHL. By reducing J20 Superelit by 4-6 teams, thus making it more competitive and better we might be able to prolong youngsters stay in Sweden.

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07-01-2009, 03:04 AM
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I agree with puckout here. A 2 year deal is in both interest when clearly this guy is so talented that he could make the NHL at 18. One has to consider whether playing on a 4th line in Sel would benefit his progression as in opposed to playing CHL hockey. Just look at this past season, how Lander was used in Timra, or rather missused. André Petersson case. The treatment of Urbom which will only hurt Djurgarden are all clear warning lights for kids that SEL teams are not always making smart decisions short-term and long-term.
I wish Landeskog stayed but as long as we produce talents like the 90,91 etc and players goal is to make the NHL some day we will loose players to CHL. By reducing J20 Superelit by 4-6 teams, thus making it more competitive and better we might be able to prolong youngsters stay in Sweden.
Yeah, a 2 year contract would have allowed Landeskog to leave on his draft year, so he would not have been stopped from entering the NHL.

From what I've heard, Landeskog was told that he was to expect SEL-time this season, while also playing for the J20. I don't think you can offer a 16 year old much more than that really...it's not like he's totally outgrown the J20 already or that he's a finished product.

Reducing the number of teams in the J20 Superelit makes it more competetive for sure, but what happens to the development programmes of the clubs that are cut? How many players will then have to play at an even lower level of competition and suffer because of it? It's quite tricky to find the right equation.

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07-01-2009, 03:17 AM
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I don't think it's such a great timing to reduce number of teams.

Lately some organisations made great progress in youth department: AIK won J18 and J16 leagues recently. Malmo has a lot of talent, Leksand and Linkopings made serious progress, MODO seems to be improving, Mora aswell.

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07-01-2009, 07:04 AM
  #25
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Originally Posted by PuckOut View Post
Reducing the number of teams in the J20 Superelit makes it more competetive for sure, but what happens to the development programmes of the clubs that are cut? How many players will then have to play at an even lower level of competition and suffer because of it? It's quite tricky to find the right equation.
Yep, never said it was a good solution, it's just a quick fix to improve the quality and perhaps keeping good players from crossing the pond so young.

If what you are saying about Peter Wallén is true then his agent license and soul should be taken away from him.

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